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2021/03/02 17:28:52
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
The abberants started on the board? How did you get the charge off with them? APA out of blip?
Here's the reasons why, in order of application;
#1 - Mission had us started 18" away from each other.
#2 - I play by the RAW of the blip rule, which has been sent in multiple times and never answered, so presumably the RAW is the way it's done. When you deploy out of blips, the first model placed down ONLY has to be within 1 inch of the blip. The rest of the unit has to be within 6" of that model AND within your deployment zone. This means a single-model unit can appear outside your deployment zone. This allows the Goliath Truck to be outside the deployment zone.
#3 - The Aberrants can leave the transport so long as all of them as wholly within 3" of it, and then move 6". That's essentially 9" off the front of the truck. In THIS game, that already put me less than 5" away from them.
#4 - However, in the list's plan, such as when we start further away, Psychic Stimulus allows the unit to advance and charge. This could allow the Aberrants an additional d6" closer.
#5 - If you desperately need it (though over-extending this much can likely be a bad decision), you can also use A Perfect Ambush when you "set up a unit on the battlefield" when disembarking from a transport, which would allow the Aberrants an additional d6" out of the transport, if required.
Galef wrote: If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors.
2021/03/02 20:45:03
Subject: Re:Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
The abberants started on the board? How did you get the charge off with them? APA out of blip?
Here's the reasons why, in order of application;
#1 - Mission had us started 18" away from each other.
#2 - I play by the RAW of the blip rule, which has been sent in multiple times and never answered, so presumably the RAW is the way it's done. When you deploy out of blips, the first model placed down ONLY has to be within 1 inch of the blip. The rest of the unit has to be within 6" of that model AND within your deployment zone. This means a single-model unit can appear outside your deployment zone. This allows the Goliath Truck to be outside the deployment zone.
#3 - The Aberrants can leave the transport so long as all of them as wholly within 3" of it, and then move 6". That's essentially 9" off the front of the truck. In THIS game, that already put me less than 5" away from them.
#4 - However, in the list's plan, such as when we start further away, Psychic Stimulus allows the unit to advance and charge. This could allow the Aberrants an additional d6" closer.
#5 - If you desperately need it (though over-extending this much can likely be a bad decision), you can also use A Perfect Ambush when you "set up a unit on the battlefield" when disembarking from a transport, which would allow the Aberrants an additional d6" out of the transport, if required.
The last point it not applicable
Perfect Ambush
"You cannot use this Stratagem on a unit that disembarked from a TRANSPORT this turn."
2021/03/02 20:48:42
Subject: Re:Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
The reason I asked is your use of Monstrous Vigour isn't legal then. Has to be the start of your turn and you cant use stratagems on units inside of transports.
This is the thing I'm butting up against on my plan, being in a place to get to 4+++
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/03/02 21:23:38
2021/03/02 22:50:02
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
dammit wrote: The reason I asked is your use of Monstrous Vigour isn't legal then. Has to be the start of your turn and you cant use stratagems on units inside of transports.
This is the thing I'm butting up against on my plan, being in a place to get to 4+++
Oddly you can use that stratagem if they're in Deep Strike but not inside a vehicle
2021/03/02 23:12:37
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
Monstrous Vigour states it must be used at the start of your turn, but to be fair it then instructs you to select an aberrant unit from your army. Doesn't explicitly state that unit has to be on the battlefield, but I've always read it as requiring the unit to be on the battlefield from the start of the turn.
Could be huge if you could use it on aberrants not yet on the table...
Do you know what your sin is, Malcolm Reynolds?
Ah hell, I'm a fan of all seven.
But right now, I'm gonna have to go with wrath.
2021/03/02 23:36:59
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
Is that still the rule? I remember it being a rule in 8th, but I don't know if I've seen that rule in 9th. If so, then you're right, and I totally cheated my opponent.
Galef wrote: If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors.
2021/03/03 00:10:40
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
Yarium wrote: Is that still the rule? I remember it being a rule in 8th, but I don't know if I've seen that rule in 9th. If so, then you're right, and I totally cheated my opponent.
Nope, it changed in 9TH so you can use stratagems on units off the table
2021/03/03 10:01:28
Subject: Re:Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
#2 - I play by the RAW of the blip rule, which has been sent in multiple times and never answered, so presumably the RAW is the way it's done. When you deploy out of blips, the first model placed down ONLY has to be within 1 inch of the blip. The rest of the unit has to be within 6" of that model AND within your deployment zone. This means a single-model unit can appear outside your deployment zone. This allows the Goliath Truck to be outside the deployment zone.
#3 - The Aberrants can leave the transport so long as all of them as wholly within 3" of it, and then move 6". That's essentially 9" off the front of the truck. In THIS game, that already put me less than 5" away from them.
#4 - However, in the list's plan, such as when we start further away, Psychic Stimulus allows the unit to advance and charge. This could allow the Aberrants an additional d6" closer.
so i just checked that, because that is ridicoulus, and even in the german book you are correct, that single model units can leave and by extension that can be i guess still abused.
I mean, that is pretty huge as in a goliath or chimera huge. Shame though on the later since you only can carry broodbrothers with that.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
2021/03/03 13:29:57
Subject: Re:Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
#2 - I play by the RAW of the blip rule, which has been sent in multiple times and never answered, so presumably the RAW is the way it's done. When you deploy out of blips, the first model placed down ONLY has to be within 1 inch of the blip. The rest of the unit has to be within 6" of that model AND within your deployment zone. This means a single-model unit can appear outside your deployment zone. This allows the Goliath Truck to be outside the deployment zone.
#3 - The Aberrants can leave the transport so long as all of them as wholly within 3" of it, and then move 6". That's essentially 9" off the front of the truck. In THIS game, that already put me less than 5" away from them.
#4 - However, in the list's plan, such as when we start further away, Psychic Stimulus allows the unit to advance and charge. This could allow the Aberrants an additional d6" closer.
so i just checked that, because that is ridicoulus, and even in the german book you are correct, that single model units can leave and by extension that can be i guess still abused.
I mean, that is pretty huge as in a goliath or chimera huge. Shame though on the later since you only can carry broodbrothers with that.
Yeah, that actually is a big deal, and it makes my list setup fairly potent. I think it makes sense if you're going the 'Acolytes in trucks' route, if a goliath truck is..what, 4" long?
4"+3"+2"+6"+D6".. 21.5" average, that's a do-able turn 1 charge even on a standard map.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2021/03/03 15:15:36
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
dammit wrote: I honestly wasn't trying to rain on your parade, I was really happy to see the aberrants working out and was hoping to copy it.
Haha, all good! We're good chaps, and so we laughed it off and said that, obviously, we'll need a re-match . Mistakes like these, when taken in stride, do not lead to feel-bad's, but rather to excitement as it gives a chance to reclaim our honour!
Galef wrote: If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors.
2021/03/03 18:19:11
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2021/03/03 18:30:40
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
Well, I was told the way I ran them wasn't entirely legal (as I used a strat on them at a time that I could not have).
But, the way I ran them was as a group of 10 in a truck. Here's the relevant deployment shenanigan:
#2 - I play by the RAW of the blip rule, which has been sent in multiple times and never answered, so presumably the RAW is the way it's done. When you deploy out of blips, the first model placed down ONLY has to be within 1 inch of the blip. The rest of the unit has to be within 6" of that model AND within your deployment zone. This means a single-model unit can appear outside your deployment zone. This allows the Goliath Truck to be outside the deployment zone.
#3 - The Aberrants can leave the transport so long as all of them as wholly within 3" of it, and then move 6". That's essentially 9" off the front of the truck. In THIS game, that already put me less than 5" away from them.
#4 - However, in the list's plan, such as when we start further away, Psychic Stimulus allows the unit to advance and charge. This could allow the Aberrants an additional d6" closer.
My plan was, and would remain, to throw them into my opponent turn 1 with the purpose of either missiling an enemy unit, or hitting their lines to move-block them. If an opponent can't get out of their deployment zone because an enemy unit is blocking their movement path, then they can't get to other objectives, and that can force them to stick on just 1.
In this game, my opponent had some units with Fly, so he was able to still make it out to other objectives through that screen, though it did force his Relic Sicaran and Primaris Bikers to be stuck, which allowed a squad of Nerophytes in the other truck to high-tail it towards an objective and successfully survive there until my next turn to start scoring me primaries without the threat of getting butchered by Blood Angels in close combat.
If I couldn't reliably missile the Aberrants, I'd probably have the vehicle zoom its way to either an objective in the same way I did the Neophytes, or I'd try to hide it so the unit could perform the job of a missile in a successive turn.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/03 18:31:09
Galef wrote: If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors.
2021/03/03 19:28:16
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
It's one of our base psychic powers in the codex. Warp Charge 6, pick a friendly unit within 18". That unit can advance and charge AND Always Fights First in combat. Quite helpful this edition for a missile unit that survives the fight, as any counter-charges against them only get 1 smack at you before you get a chance to smack back with the Aberrants
Galef wrote: If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors.
2021/03/03 20:10:43
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
It's one of our base psychic powers in the codex. Warp Charge 6, pick a friendly unit within 18". That unit can advance and charge AND Always Fights First in combat. Quite helpful this edition for a missile unit that survives the fight, as any counter-charges against them only get 1 smack at you before you get a chance to smack back with the Aberrants
Oh.
....Huh. Honestly, never considered that power. However, I don't think i've ever experienced an opponent trying to counter-smack my melee bomb with melee units, they've always just shot them. Just interesting to note that there's an alternative to the genetic legacy stratagem.
Another interesting tool to consider is the 2cp stratagem Lurk in the Shadows.
Now that cover in 9th edition is by model, a unit being 'in cover' is vastly easier to achieve than ever before, as you really just need one model to be in terrain in order to pop it off. It takes some coordination, but if you throw suicidal chaff units like jackals and ridgerunners up and around the bomb unit as it heads in, or into the center of the board while the bomb clears a flank, you can prevent the other flank from retaliating against the bomb unit at all for 2cp. Unlike monstrous vigor you get to pop it at the beginning of your enemy's shooting, so there's no need to coordinate it well before they take any fire.
Not something you can always set up, and it's often not the best for use with your big forward bomb, but it's a tool I've been much more aware of the usefulness of recently since I've been running more acolytes in more places around the board - if you use a squad to clear out an opponent's deep strikers, you can pop 2cp to prevent your opponent from responding by shooting that now exposed acolyte unit with a long range shooter like some intercessors.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2021/03/03 20:21:27
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
the_scotsman wrote: ....Huh. Honestly, never considered that power. However, I don't think i've ever experienced an opponent trying to counter-smack my melee bomb with melee units, they've always just shot them. Just interesting to note that there's an alternative to the genetic legacy stratagem.
A lot of my opponents are Space Marines, and Marines... they like to punch! It is bananas how many attacks just 3 bikes get on the charge. To better break through a move-block, my opponents counter-charge rather than fall back and shoot so that they can pile in and consolidate to move forward as much as possible. Using this power on them punishes them a bit for doing that. If I can tri-point something as well, this will again help in the case that there are multiple charges going off. It's like a free 2CP interrupt.
Galef wrote: If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors.
2021/03/05 10:24:38
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
In hindsight you lot sold me on 20 abberants count as
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
2021/03/05 10:28:49
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
Even for their points, they're still the most durable hammer unit we have, and they've always performed well for me! While you're at it, why not pick yourself up an AoS slaughterpriest and convert him into an abominant?
You never know, they might be due a renaissance when we finally get our new codex...
Do you know what your sin is, Malcolm Reynolds?
Ah hell, I'm a fan of all seven.
But right now, I'm gonna have to go with wrath.
2021/03/05 10:34:53
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
Even for their points, they're still the most durable hammer unit we have, and they've always performed well for me! While you're at it, why not pick yourself up an AoS slaughterpriest and convert him into an abominant?
You never know, they might be due a renaissance when we finally get our new codex...
ahaha i take it you saw my new project
i thought about it, but i have a lot of bloodletter legs and bodies still around as i have hellswords and chaos marines bits... So i guess my abomination will be more abominable then your average abomination if i ever get around to it. (and yes i got a 40mm base ready for something like that)
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
2021/03/05 12:43:13
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
i'd say the iconward is a better option because he also has utility for stuff other then aberrants?
but the cost is also higher.
I am also a bit torn on the Augur arrays on the Leman russes.
I assume the truck is for the aberrant shenanigans from yarium?
Wouldn't a Magus not be a good idea aswell?
Advance + Charge might well help out even more?
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
. Mistakes like these, when taken in stride, do not lead to feel-bad's, but rather to excitement as it gives a chance to reclaim our honour!
