Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Has anybody had success with using multiple rock grinders as a semi speedy melee option? I envision using ML neophytes in trucks to hold middle objectives and draw fire with the rock grinders providing a turn-two melee/incinerator counter punch.

canonized wrote:
Has anybody had success with using multiple rock grinders as a semi speedy melee option? I envision using ML neophytes in trucks to hold middle objectives and draw fire with the rock grinders providing a turn-two melee/incinerator counter punch.

Rockgrinders arent awful, but they're not a great melee unit IMO.

I've had decent success with an all armored list setup, with 5-man hand flamer aco squads in rockgrinders, 10-man laser neo squads in trucks with a few ridgerunners in there as well, but the main problem with guns-focused gsc lists is there's just not much that can actually hold its own against the competition from other codexes, because we have exactly one aura that works on vehicles, 1-2 decent stratagems, no cult creeds... basically it kinda feels like running an 8th ed index army against a 9th ed codex army after you've done your big 'single minded obsession+jackal alphus aura" combo to totally whack one enemy unit.

Too much of the codex is dedicated to helping out melee infantry to not make that a central hub around which the list rotates.

the_scotsman wrote:

canonized wrote:
Has anybody had success with using multiple rock grinders as a semi speedy melee option? I envision using ML neophytes in trucks to hold middle objectives and draw fire with the rock grinders providing a turn-two melee/incinerator counter punch.

Rockgrinders arent awful, but they're not a great melee unit IMO.

I've had decent success with an all armored list setup, with 5-man hand flamer aco squads in rockgrinders, 10-man laser neo squads in trucks with a few ridgerunners in there as well, but the main problem with guns-focused gsc lists is there's just not much that can actually hold its own against the competition from other codexes, because we have exactly one aura that works on vehicles, 1-2 decent stratagems, no cult creeds... basically it kinda feels like running an 8th ed index army against a 9th ed codex army after you've done your big 'single minded obsession+jackal alphus aura" combo to totally whack one enemy unit.

Too much of the codex is dedicated to helping out melee infantry to not make that a central hub around which the list rotates.

I want to run an armored list as well. Was thinking of using the innate fighters creed (which I believe would work on cult rockgrinders) which, when combined with a primus, would have the grinders hitting on 3s and re-rolling 1s. Seems like a nice amount of attacks and durability (not to mention the twin heavy flamer and transport capacity) for a relatively cheap unit.

haha, nope. GSC are one of....I think two? factions in the game that still has no subfaction tactics on their vehicles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
GW just kinda forgot to bring that over for them and Chaos Space marines.

What is that based on?

The text of Innate Fighters says: "When resolving an attack made with a melee weapon by a model with this cult creed in a turn in which it made a charge move, was charged or performed a heroic intervention, re-roll a hit roll of 1." The rockgrinder is permitted to take a cult creed, so I don't see why it wouldn't benefit from Innate Fighters. It should also work (badly) with Hunter's instincts and with Devout Worshippers.

I messed around a lott with the points. Like cutting a ridge runner to have a Goliath rock grinder to transport 5 abberants. (it is only a small price increase to get better T and melee potensial as well as transports.) Experimenting with abberants in the rockrgunder and other units in the Goliath. On and on it went. In the end this is what I settled on.

I want ranged weapons. My usual opponent has 2 dakkajets who eat infantry. And while I try not to tailor VS him I do need something so I do not die. I have tryed 110 infantry and they die enn mass VS dakkajets.

So 6 ridge runners and 2 leman russes perform this well. The multi melta 9th edition profile is so good they make a 24 kill zone for vehicles. The augor array essentially is a "free" lascannon as long as I have a lascannon, or a battle cannon if that hits. Very good for 5 points.

9th edition battles are over very fast, so I need to have a melee threat in my deployment zone to punish anybody moving up. If I have superior ranged firepower (could very well be with this list) they the the opponent must come to me or play objectives. The abberants are performing this jobb.

The big acolyte squad is good and performs the a perfect ambush stratagem where needed. The shotgun squad use laying in wait to deny an objective and shoot them off. So this are 5 CP that are 'locked in' most games.

The mortar and 3 'naked' acolyte groups are to grab objectives. Probably deploy scrambles and possible other seconderies.

I have not tried chimera yet, but 2 heavy flamers for 85 points seems reasonable on paper and a good alternative to the flaming acolyte trucks. (2 S5 heavy flamers for 85 points VS 2 autocannons and 10 S3 Hand flamers for 185 points.) The flamer brood brothers inside I am less confident about. For 20 points more they could be another chimera and probably better.

And that is the list. If I could find points for a magus I probably would but I am not sure they are worth it. 25 points for a stop sign would also be amazing. But I think I would go for a chimera instead if I could choose.

canonized wrote:
What is that based on?

The text of Innate Fighters says: "When resolving an attack made with a melee weapon by a model with this cult creed in a turn in which it made a charge move, was charged or performed a heroic intervention, re-roll a hit roll of 1." The rockgrinder is permitted to take a cult creed, so I don't see why it wouldn't benefit from Innate Fighters. It should also work (badly) with Hunter's instincts and with Devout Worshippers.

Codex page 108:

"All INFANTRY and BIKER units with this ability gain a cult creed...."

....except BROOD BROTHERs

And GENESTEALERS

We ain't the worst faction in the game for no reason, boyo, you don't GET to have any special rules on your vehicles, not even the <cult> ones! you get blip deployment and you like it, meanwhile your space marine opponent's vehicles get chapter tactics, doctrines, and superdoctrines, enjoy the Very Fair Fight TM!

All custom creeds are worse than codex creeds due to lack of Strat/Relic/Trait many of which are extremely critical abilities. Even the combos that on certain units might be very slightly better generally get overshadowed - infantry can move and fire heavy + reroll hits with mining lasers might SEEM slightly better than infantry move and fire heavy + infantry get a 6++, but the second one also comes with an amazing 1cp combat stratagem, a warlord trait that grants a 6" aura of reroll all wounds, a relic that gives several characters a 3++ invuln save, and a psychic power that grants a 5+ FNP.

Obviously, GW realized this when they went and gave space marines the supplement system, that nobody was going to give up 6 warlord traits 6 relics 6 psychic powers 12 stratagems etc to maybe very slightly get a better army wide subfaction trait....but then they just shrugged and said "feth it" and forced everyone else go give up their...one...of all those things...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Niiai wrote:
I messed around a lott with the points. Like cutting a ridge runner to have a Goliath rock grinder to transport 5 abberants. (it is only a small price increase to get better T and melee potensial as well as transports.) Experimenting with abberants in the rockrgunder and other units in the Goliath. On and on it went. In the end this is what I settled on.

I want ranged weapons. My usual opponent has 2 dakkajets who eat infantry. And while I try not to tailor VS him I do need something so I do not die. I have tryed 110 infantry and they die enn mass VS dakkajets.

So 6 ridge runners and 2 leman russes perform this well. The multi melta 9th edition profile is so good they make a 24 kill zone for vehicles. The augor array essentially is a "free" lascannon as long as I have a lascannon, or a battle cannon if that hits. Very good for 5 points.

9th edition battles are over very fast, so I need to have a melee threat in my deployment zone to punish anybody moving up. If I have superior ranged firepower (could very well be with this list) they the the opponent must come to me or play objectives. The abberants are performing this jobb.

I agree that a melee threat in your DZ turn 1 is a must in case you run into an opponent with a highly aggressive list, but I have a conspiracy theory that 9th ed games are only over fast because people are playing like its hyperaggressive nowhere to hide 8th edition and constructing their lists around everything dying instantly and everything always needing to be turn 2 tempo or bust.

I tried so hard to make the turn 2 tempo nothing else matters type list work, with the huge block of shooting units in the super-scary auras turn 1 to remove a big threat, then a big bomb unit turn 2 buffed to high heaven and spending all the CP.

But I think "play like the game has 5 turns" is actually a better, more workable strategy the majority of the time.

I agree. Most of my games have been swingy and over before T5. But how do you do that though? My ork opponent is up in my face T1 with da jump. Dakkajets taking out glass cannons. Morkanaught walking up shooting. Bomebreaker ready to counter charge.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I agree. Most of my games have been swingy and over before T5. But how do you do that though? My ork opponent is up in my face T1 with da jump. Dakkajets taking out glass cannons. Morkanaught walking up shooting. Bomebreaker ready to counter charge.

If you're in a heavy "they're in my face turn 1" meta, consider Scout Sentinels. They have to start deployed and not blipped, but if they do you can Scout move them 9" forward to zone areas out from Da Jump, or to get a head-start on jumping to objectives covered by Nurglings.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And yes, Very Fair Fight TM indeed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I got a rematch vs the same Blood Angels player tomorrow, who will likely have a more tuned up list. Let's see if I can make the magic happen twice!

Dakkajets have 9 essentially bs3+ S6 Ap-1 shots, I don't feel personally like 2 of them are a world-ending threat to me except to stuff like jackals early on.

I would just suicide a cheap squad of jackals out directly right on the line of scrimmage because I know theyre the only target for the jets, let the boyz jump in 9" from those and then not give them much to charge behind that, then clear them out with hand flamers and stubbers and such the next turn. Main thing is just continuing to deep strike stuff as far into the corners and edges of the board as possible and keep the opponent from being able to create a deathball.

95pts for a rockgrinder isn't bad really.

6+d3 s9 ap-2 dd3 attacks on the charge is not to be scoffed at; that the most points efficient way for us to get that quality of attacks.

Note that while they dont get cult creeds, they are valid targets for clamavus/primus, psychic stimulus and undying vigour.

1cp to ignore ap-2, 1cp to count as top bracket for the turn, 1cp for d3 mortal wounds after a charge. This is a durable unit that can definitely run a durable unit off an objective, with a possible 12+3d6 threat range.

As a transport I don't think it works because 6 capacity isn't really enough for us, and you lose the open topped.

So in lieu of the abberant debacle i got kinda inspired:

Dakkajet is 18 shots, not 9. And BS4* not 3. Point beeing they kill a whole lot of T3 5+ models each turn. The 110 infantry list that Alex made and I recreated just rolls over and dies.

 Niiai wrote:
Dakkajet is 18 shots, not 9. And BS4* not 3. Point beeing they kill a whole lot of T3 5+ models each turn. The 110 infantry list that Alex made and I recreated just rolls over and dies.

Man, are we really FEARING a 170 pts Dakkajet that kills 7 guardsmen per turn? oh god...

Okay, does anyone have eldar in their meta, because I have an eldar player who destroys me whatever I do.

My abberant list just did nothing against him - he killed them at a rate five times what the math would suggest.

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Dakkajet is 18 shots, not 9. And BS4* not 3. Point beeing they kill a whole lot of T3 5+ models each turn. The 110 infantry list that Alex made and I recreated just rolls over and dies.

Man, are we really FEARING a 170 pts Dakkajet that kills 7 guardsmen per turn? oh god...

I am. Or rather the two of them are very good at destroying what ever 14 guardsmen they want dead each turn. That makes it very hard to hold objectives. And they also do fine work VS ridge runners. Of course ridge runners can shoot back but orks either play for board control or just really aggressive.

When 30 ard boys land in my zone, and I need to kill all 30 in one turn to not get green tided it really takes a lot of focus. Slipping some abberants or guard mens out to grab an objective is not possible when the Dakkajet just destroys it. So yes, I am fearing that.

 Niiai wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Dakkajet is 18 shots, not 9. And BS4* not 3. Point beeing they kill a whole lot of T3 5+ models each turn. The 110 infantry list that Alex made and I recreated just rolls over and dies.

Man, are we really FEARING a 170 pts Dakkajet that kills 7 guardsmen per turn? oh god...

I am. Or rather the two of them are very good at destroying what ever 14 guardsmen they want dead each turn. That makes it very hard to hold objectives. And they also do fine work VS ridge runners. Of course ridge runners can shoot back but orks either play for board control or just really aggressive.

When 30 ard boys land in my zone, and I need to kill all 30 in one turn to not get green tided it really takes a lot of focus. Slipping some abberants or guard mens out to grab an objective is not possible when the Dakkajet just destroys it. So yes, I am fearing that.

6,25 Guardsmen/3,33 Wounds to a Ridgerunner/2,5 Wounds to a Goliath Truck per Dakkajet is absolutely ABYSMAL and one of the worst in game options for damage dealing; if you're having problem holding objectives against this kind of firepower, you're in for a lot of pain when you face everything else that dares to use anti-infantry units.

Your opponent is also doing you a favor spending 2 CP PER UNIT OF BOYS just to push their Armour Save to a 5+ so again there's no option other than getting good because your local ork player is already doing his best to let you have fun

the_scotsman wrote:

Codex page 108:

"All INFANTRY and BIKER units with this ability gain a cult creed...."

....except BROOD BROTHERs

And GENESTEALERS

We ain't the worst faction in the game for no reason, boyo, you don't GET to have any special rules on your vehicles, not even the <cult> ones! you get blip deployment and you like it, meanwhile your space marine opponent's vehicles get chapter tactics, doctrines, and superdoctrines, enjoy the Very Fair Fight TM!

All custom creeds are worse than codex creeds due to lack of Strat/Relic/Trait many of which are extremely critical abilities. Even the combos that on certain units might be very slightly better generally get overshadowed - infantry can move and fire heavy + reroll hits with mining lasers might SEEM slightly better than infantry move and fire heavy + infantry get a 6++, but the second one also comes with an amazing 1cp combat stratagem, a warlord trait that grants a 6" aura of reroll all wounds, a relic that gives several characters a 3++ invuln save, and a psychic power that grants a 5+ FNP.

Obviously, GW realized this when they went and gave space marines the supplement system, that nobody was going to give up 6 warlord traits 6 relics 6 psychic powers 12 stratagems etc to maybe very slightly get a better army wide subfaction trait....but then they just shrugged and said "feth it" and forced everyone else go give up their...one...of all those things...

What a bummer. The GSC codex feels almost punitive at times.

Such toxicaty disguised as 'good advice.' Yeah I am muting kurtangel2.

 Niiai wrote:
Such toxicaty disguised as 'good advice.' Yeah I am muting kurtangel2.

Not a problem of mine if you can't stand the truth

 Niiai wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Dakkajet is 18 shots, not 9. And BS4* not 3. Point beeing they kill a whole lot of T3 5+ models each turn. The 110 infantry list that Alex made and I recreated just rolls over and dies.

Man, are we really FEARING a 170 pts Dakkajet that kills 7 guardsmen per turn? oh god...

I am. Or rather the two of them are very good at destroying what ever 14 guardsmen they want dead each turn. That makes it very hard to hold objectives. And they also do fine work VS ridge runners. Of course ridge runners can shoot back but orks either play for board control or just really aggressive.

When 30 ard boys land in my zone, and I need to kill all 30 in one turn to not get green tided it really takes a lot of focus. Slipping some abberants or guard mens out to grab an objective is not possible when the Dakkajet just destroys it. So yes, I am fearing that.

Sounds like Rockgrinders would solve your problems, no? They'd be pretty tough for the dakkajets to shift with T7 and the 6+++, and with their clearance incinerators you have a reliable means of hitting the jets (wounding may be tricky but doable), and they'd put the kibosh on the Ard Boyz too.

Another thought for dealing with these pesky flyers your opponent like to run, have you considered Mental Onslaught? I know it's been nerfed, but mortal wounds do bypass their defences pretty effectively.

I think the point that KurtAngle2 was trying to make was that dakkajets and Ard Boyz aren't insurmountable. We do have tools to tackle them, but you're right they can tear through GEQ infantry with good rolling.

 Drakeslayer wrote:

 Niiai wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Dakkajet is 18 shots, not 9. And BS4* not 3. Point beeing they kill a whole lot of T3 5+ models each turn. The 110 infantry list that Alex made and I recreated just rolls over and dies.

Man, are we really FEARING a 170 pts Dakkajet that kills 7 guardsmen per turn? oh god...

I am. Or rather the two of them are very good at destroying what ever 14 guardsmen they want dead each turn. That makes it very hard to hold objectives. And they also do fine work VS ridge runners. Of course ridge runners can shoot back but orks either play for board control or just really aggressive.

When 30 ard boys land in my zone, and I need to kill all 30 in one turn to not get green tided it really takes a lot of focus. Slipping some abberants or guard mens out to grab an objective is not possible when the Dakkajet just destroys it. So yes, I am fearing that.

Sounds like Rockgrinders would solve your problems, no? They'd be pretty tough for the dakkajets to shift with T7 and the 6+++, and with their clearance incinerators you have a reliable means of hitting the jets (wounding may be tricky but doable), and they'd put the kibosh on the Ard Boyz too.

Another thought for dealing with these pesky flyers your opponent like to run, have you considered Mental Onslaught? I know it's been nerfed, but mortal wounds do bypass their defences pretty effectively.

I think the point that KurtAngle2 was trying to make was that dakkajets and Ard Boyz aren't insurmountable. We do have tools to tackle them, but you're right they can tear through GEQ infantry with good rolling.

My point is that you never build around Dakkajets and Boys cause they aren't good enough by themselves, don't really show up and EVEN IF THEY DO their profiles are so generically bad (T6 12W 4+ is a Tyranid Harpy/Hive Crones, how many of these do you actually see?) and T4 6+(5+ but this doesn't change anything in this case) that any TAC list/unit choice can decently deal with them; that said you should never ever consider running exceptionally bad units in your army, even if they were somehow (not a credible case though) good against those particular units.

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 Drakeslayer wrote:

 Niiai wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Dakkajet is 18 shots, not 9. And BS4* not 3. Point beeing they kill a whole lot of T3 5+ models each turn. The 110 infantry list that Alex made and I recreated just rolls over and dies.

Man, are we really FEARING a 170 pts Dakkajet that kills 7 guardsmen per turn? oh god...

I am. Or rather the two of them are very good at destroying what ever 14 guardsmen they want dead each turn. That makes it very hard to hold objectives. And they also do fine work VS ridge runners. Of course ridge runners can shoot back but orks either play for board control or just really aggressive.

When 30 ard boys land in my zone, and I need to kill all 30 in one turn to not get green tided it really takes a lot of focus. Slipping some abberants or guard mens out to grab an objective is not possible when the Dakkajet just destroys it. So yes, I am fearing that.

Sounds like Rockgrinders would solve your problems, no? They'd be pretty tough for the dakkajets to shift with T7 and the 6+++, and with their clearance incinerators you have a reliable means of hitting the jets (wounding may be tricky but doable), and they'd put the kibosh on the Ard Boyz too.

Another thought for dealing with these pesky flyers your opponent like to run, have you considered Mental Onslaught? I know it's been nerfed, but mortal wounds do bypass their defences pretty effectively.

I think the point that KurtAngle2 was trying to make was that dakkajets and Ard Boyz aren't insurmountable. We do have tools to tackle them, but you're right they can tear through GEQ infantry with good rolling.

My point is that you never build around Dakkajets and Boys cause they aren't good enough by themselves, don't really show up and EVEN IF THEY DO their profiles are so generically bad (T6 12W 4+ is a Tyranid Harpy/Hive Crones, how many of these do you actually see?) and T4 6+(5+ but doesn't change anything in this case) that any TAC list/unit choice can decently deal with them; that said you should never ever consider running expectionally bad units in your army, even if they were somehow (not a credible case though) good against those particular units.

First off, GSC tactica thread, not the ork salt thread. Second, dakkajets sure, but tons of competitive ork lists are building around boyz lol, that's fairly common.

And stating that the dakkajet is bad because it's T6 4+ when that's...the same defensive profile as buggies, the other competitive ork unit type...a bit odd to say the least.

if i were going up against an ork list that involved (presumably) several 30-blocks of boyz, a bonebreaka with something mean in it, a morkanaut granting a KFF and a couple dakkajets, I'd probably work to prioritize crippling my opponent's mobility (snipe out the weirdboy ASAP with a keler or sanctus silencer+jackal alphus shots, use the bomb unit to take down the bonebreaka) and if my list was infantry heavy I'd probably shoot each dakkajet until it was at 1/2 health rather than trying to down 1 then the other. Reducing them from 5+BS to 6+BS is pretty significant.

With my list, though, I wouldn't bother at all. I run mechanized, and dakkajets are just 360 points my opponent isn't using to control the board. make sure you keep Lurking in the Shadows in mind (2CP can't shoot me unless i'm the closest strat) because the mandatory movement of the dakkajets will make it very hard for them to keep the most critical target the closest.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

dammit wrote:
Okay, does anyone have eldar in their meta, because I have an eldar player who destroys me whatever I do.

My abberant list just did nothing against him - he killed them at a rate five times what the math would suggest.

What kind of eldar we talking? The most common types I typically see are "big ol' ball of shagnasty buffs on a huge maxed out unit of wraithblades" and "scattered MSU high mobility play to the mission"

The latter is way tougher for us to deal with than the former. The former you have to solve simply by the trick of: DONT FEED YOUR STUFF TO THE WRAITHBALL.

It's really really tempting to drop your bomb unit turn 2 and try to take a chunk out of the fortuned+protected-up wraithblades: that's exactly how you lose. I would try turn 1 and turn 2 to have some kind of suicide unit (jackals, neophyte with Lying in Wait, scout sentinel etc) just Advance right up to them and fething park 1" away, impeding their movement as much as is possible. Turn 2, drop a kelermorph and eat the farseer that's casting buffs for breakfast, then ideally if you're controlling the rest of the board you can send a melee unit suiciding into the wraiths to take a chunk out of them.

I have not done the math. But I doubt flamers who are S<T are good VS flyers. They do jot seem cost efficient on attack. Flamers also have short range and dakkajets are 20 to 60 movement.

And while rockgrinders survive the attacks from the Dakkajet our army do have quite a lot of guard like saves. That is just a fact. Many lists run guard like models in some form and we use them to hold objectives. A 5 man acolyte squad for instance is prime targets for them. A unit many lists use.

It is not doom and gloom and it is not like it is an auto loss VS dakkajets. But they need some sort of awnser or you will loose those object holding units. You can go all five rounds not killing them. But I think you will agree it means bleeding a lot of models. Unless you do an all armored list perhaps.

But how do you kill them? Our prime solution are ridge runners with Alphus bs+. But it is not very cost effecient. Neither is smite. Usually we would charge them, but alas we can not. Dealing with dakkajets means some form of bleeding effeciency in my estemat.

Ork boys are also not undeafeatable. But I find it quite impressive getting 30 of them into my lines T1, especially when I am going second. They can guarantee getting da jump thanks to wear boys. If they are speed freaks they have about 80% chance to get the charge with their rules. Setting up an ideal screening is difficult. And if you castle in the corner they just delay da jump and you can mot castle eternaly.

120 S4 attacks is not ideal. Either we are T3 5+ or we are a vehicle. Come GSC turn 1 you are left with some dilemmas. Commit to little to kill them and they will green tide back in, getting 30 in a charge T2. (Mind you they are unlikely to get all 120 attacks off because of how green tide deployment is worded.) And you need to commit a lot of power to kill 30 T4 5+. Commit to much and you are not getting onto the table grabbing objectives.

And you better grab the objective with something sturdy or the dakkajets plink them down.

I find the main problem VS orks is that they are much tougher then us. They are T4, we are T3. And they play very aggressively. You do not have time to deal with the problems in a timely fashion. The more you commit to deep strike the less we have to fight them turn 1.

Also, their shooting is mainly BS5. That means they have a huge quantaty of shots. Charging orks they have a surprising number of overwatch shots in my experience. It hurts so much.

It is not doom and gloom. But dakkajets are very good VS me at least.

Edit: Reading through the Scotsman comments on orks I see they have accurately guessed the rest of what my ork opponent is using based on what little I dislodged. Quite good understanding of them.

the_scotsman wrote:


What kind of eldar we talking? The most common types I typically see are "big ol' ball of shagnasty buffs on a huge maxed out unit of wraithblades" and "scattered MSU high mobility play to the mission"

The latter is way tougher for us to deal with than the former. The former you have to solve simply by the trick of: DONT FEED YOUR STUFF TO THE WRAITHBALL.

It's really really tempting to drop your bomb unit turn 2 and try to take a chunk out of the fortuned+protected-up wraithblades: that's exactly how you lose. I would try turn 1 and turn 2 to have some kind of suicide unit (jackals, neophyte with Lying in Wait, scout sentinel etc) just Advance right up to them and fething park 1" away, impeding their movement as much as is possible. Turn 2, drop a kelermorph and eat the farseer that's casting buffs for breakfast, then ideally if you're controlling the rest of the board you can send a melee unit suiciding into the wraiths to take a chunk out of them.

The latest embarrassment for me was asurman+ulthwe dire avenger spam screening for his d-cannons running master of concealment/expert crafters, with shadow spectres and wave serpents to minimally push into midfield objectives.

I simply could not take his stuff faster than he could take mine out and i GG'd bottom of turn three when his I realised I had no way to stop his wraithseer finishing psychic ritual, i'd lost too much.

I often hear how bad eldar are but I just cant see it they seem to be the hardest counter to any list I bring - it seems their shooting is so consistent I can barely survive 2 turns, and they don't die fast enough in close combat to match it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The most embarrassing bit of it all is i've reached the point with this friend where I kinda wanna say I don' want to play against him specifically, I've become that demoralised.

And he doesn't deserve that because he's a great winner (he used to have the annoying habit of telling you how you should be playing your army rather than letting you do that yourself but has stopped doing that) and how can you even think about telling a friend that 'you beat me so much it's stopped being fun, but I have closer matches against our other friends, so I will play against them?

I think perhaps GSC are not in a great place for winning these days. Stil, I really enjoy playing the army.

It's also interesting because you're all (presumably) playing the new 9th edition missions with 9th ed rules.

My dad and I have decided to stick with 8th for the time being (tired of the constant codex expenditure), and I've been running my Genestealer Cult with 8th rules and points to some considerable success - against CSM, Space Wolves and even Iron Hands among others.

Did the 9th points update treat us this harshly? Is it the codex creep of other factions? Or are the core rules/missions making the difference?

Would be interested to hear people's thoughts on this.

....so, something like 5x 10-man DA squads, a wraithseer, 2x shadowspecters, 2x wave serpents, 6x d-cannons, something like that?

The way id tackle that is by spamming a lot of low quality firepower to just make the invuln saves not really matter. Forwarned is going to be a big concern turn 2, so you either want to run Plan or bring something like a Kelermorph with the 3++ relic and try to bait your opponent into forwarning into him rather than the shotgun neos/hsnd flamer acos youll be bringing down after.

D-cannons are pretty simple to kill with mining laser fire at a distance. Obviously they make the buff from the alphus less valuable, id just bring a lot of bodies and aim to knock out a large number of avengers turn 2

the_scotsman wrote:

D-cannons are pretty simple to kill with mining laser fire at a distance.

Thats not been my experience, they're stacked behind dense/obscuring and when I do get a decent shot it's instantly countered by the 4++ strat + protect.

And the wraithseer is shielded by the spiritseer for it's own 4++

dammit wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

D-cannons are pretty simple to kill with mining laser fire at a distance.

Thats not been my experience, they're stacked behind dense/obscuring and when I do get a decent shot it's instantly countered by the 4++ strat + protect.

And the wraithseer is shielded by the spiritseer for it's own 4++

So...ok, I'm having a hard time seeing how Protect can even be a thing with D-cannons.

They're all their own unit, and I'm assuming he has several. if he protects one, don't...don't shoot that one. Them being stacked behind obscuring terrain is a legitimate point, but ridgerunners are fairly fast and have 12" of range on them. if you have sight to multiple and you shoot one and he pops 4++ and successfully saves it, you just gotta base your response on what damage you do through the 4++. If it's none, switch targets. if you just need to finish it off, maybe throw some stubbers its way or something, it only has a 4+sv and it's not infantry so it can't get cover.

At the end of the day, they're a 70pt unit with T5, W5, 4+, 6" of movement, 24" range and D3 shots D6 damage. A ridgerunner is a 75pt unit with T6, W8, 4+, 6+FNP, 14" of movement, D3 shots D6 damage plus 6 extra shots. It's tough for me to see how eldar psychic powers, S12 and AP-4 is such an insurmountable challenge for your units. Worst comes to worst just sit your vehicles out of their range if they're camping behind obscuring terrain.

a combination of MSU handflamer squads, Lying in Wait shotgun neophyte squads with flamers, stubbers from ridgerunners and atalans with close range firefight should eat 4++ Dire Avenger spam alive, we've got tons of tools to deal with middle price T3 infantry with invuln saves. If you can't kill/cant get to his D-cannons, wraithseer and wave serpents just don't, kill the infantry and win on objectives. Baiting out Forewarned is going to be important to do on the turn you want to bring the hurt to the DA spam - I've often found that opponents think they've caught you in a mistake if you bring down a buffing character first, like if I'm bringing a bomb unit of aberrants I'll drop the Biophagus first. also the kelermorph. That guy is absolute catnip for opponents to try and kill him with Servo Skull/Forewarned/Auspex Scan, and you can use relics like the mark of the clawed omnissiah to make him super difficult to put down.

What's a typical list you run?