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Things like the Cult Leman Russ have been straight up removed from the website, so assume they're just gone and they've replaced it with this rule that punishes you for using them.

I would not fuzz about it (yet). Before every codex release they pull all units from the website (some at a time) to repackage them. They get the new box font treatment. And sometimes go up in price.

I also do not belive they have been there for a while. Sentinels downright was just buy IG sentinels.

Perhaps we will be allowed to take the mother f-ing gattling leman russ?

Well atleast the nades got an Upgrade seemingly.
S5 ap-1 d1

By my count, if the Brood Brother units are removed from the Codex, we will have 6 HQ choices, 10 elites, 2 each of troops and fast attack, and one HS and dedicated transport. Which means that the tax on a Brigade is 3 Rockgrinders for a start...
I am now really hoping some of our ideas for alternative unit types will comes true - Neophyte mining weapon teams for heavies?

Reboxing instructions statlines leaking. Notable changes:

Rock Cutters are damage 3. Drills are AP-4, same as the other two melee mining weapons. Saw statlines are unchanged.

Rending claws are AP-2 base. Acolyte and Metamorph leader boneswords are the same as the Primus', so damage 2 and S+1.

Demolition charges are damage 2.

Plain Goliath Trucks are still T6 but have Ld8 and a 3+ save.

Blasting charge statlines have already been noted, but interestingly Acolytes can carry them too (the example model given in the instructions is carrying the hard-case of cylinder charges, while the tnt-esque charge is designated as demolition charge).

Madjob wrote:
Reboxing instructions statlines leaking. Notable changes:

Rock Cutters are damage 3. Drills are AP-4, same as the other two melee mining weapons. Saw statlines are unchanged.

Rending claws are AP-2 base. Acolyte and Metamorph leader boneswords are the same as the Primus', so damage 2 and S+1.

Demolition charges are damage 2.

Plain Goliath Trucks are still T6 but have Ld8 and a 3+ save.

Blasting charge statlines have already been noted, but interestingly Acolytes can carry them too (the example model given in the instructions is carrying the hard-case of cylinder charges, while the tnt-esque charge is designated as demolition charge).

I would completely disregard the Cutter and Drill. They are weapons which currently operate through their special rules which doesn't translate into a pure stateline for the instruction manual.
Without seeing what happens to those rules the stateline is meaningless.

 the_scotsman wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
I want the cost of utility characters to drop significantly. Kellermorph may have seemed scary at 60 points 4 years ago, buts he's hot trash now at 80. He struggles to kill 4 ork boyz now lol.

i mean sure but he's also bad at killing tanks, at a certain point you do have to kind of wonder if attacking slow high-T infantry is really the thing you want to point a deep strike assassination unit at.

Ol' helen is probably a wee bit overcosted atm tho for sure. could use a 10pt discount or 5pt with the relic gun.

Orks are high toughness but no save and single wound, and he's a garbage assassin too. With all the higher toughness, invulns, ignore damage and reductions on characters the only things left to clip are 25-45 pt elite slot trash characters, which again he loses on.

The snipers should be the main character hunters IMO, kellermorph should wreck medium and light infantry or finish off a utility character. BTW I used him against an ork boss on foot lmao, 6's required to wound the thing! I mean, even weird boyz and meks are t5 now lol. The mek boy is 25 points lmao.


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 Ordana wrote:

Madjob wrote:
Reboxing instructions statlines leaking. Notable changes:

Rock Cutters are damage 3. Drills are AP-4, same as the other two melee mining weapons. Saw statlines are unchanged.

Rending claws are AP-2 base. Acolyte and Metamorph leader boneswords are the same as the Primus', so damage 2 and S+1.

Demolition charges are damage 2.

Plain Goliath Trucks are still T6 but have Ld8 and a 3+ save.

Blasting charge statlines have already been noted, but interestingly Acolytes can carry them too (the example model given in the instructions is carrying the hard-case of cylinder charges, while the tnt-esque charge is designated as demolition charge).

I would completely disregard the Cutter and Drill. They are weapons which currently operate through their special rules which doesn't translate into a pure stateline for the instruction manual.
Without seeing what happens to those rules the stateline is meaningless.

I wouldn't go that far.

The drill is still damage 1, which is a pretty big hint it will still drill mortals.

However the cutter went from damage D3 to flat 3. It was previously unwieldy. I wouldn't be shocked if it lost the insta kill in exchange for the flat damage of 3 since that's a pretty big hop in damage.




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Madjob wrote:
Reboxing instructions statlines leaking. Notable changes:

Rock Cutters are damage 3. Drills are AP-4, same as the other two melee mining weapons. Saw statlines are unchanged.

Rending claws are AP-2 base. Acolyte and Metamorph leader boneswords are the same as the Primus', so damage 2 and S+1.

Demolition charges are damage 2.

Plain Goliath Trucks are still T6 but have Ld8 and a 3+ save.

Blasting charge statlines have already been noted, but interestingly Acolytes can carry them too (the example model given in the instructions is carrying the hard-case of cylinder charges, while the tnt-esque charge is designated as demolition charge).

where are you seeing the goliath stat leaks? I only saw the acolytes on here.

Also, pretty sure the neophytes already spoiled blasting charges in the Shadow Throne box.

I am really hoping the goliath gets more durability then that lol.

What are everyone's worst ideas for what units GW could introduce to fill in our HS and FA slots? I mean just laughably bad units - maybe a tracked support weapon that is slow, direct fire-only heavy mount for HS? Or something like an Aberrant 'chariot' where 2-3 Aberrants are towing something by hand?
Perhaps a Ravener-tailed Metamorph variant for 'extra speed, or a Ridgerunner equivalent that can only Transport 5 models, retaining only the stubbers for weapons?
What are your worst nightmares that the design team might inflict on us?

I want to see a wolf quad based fast attack unit. Move the laser cars to heavy support. Cult tank commanders as a hq slot or heavy slot.

Perhaps we will be left with no airplaine and one heavy support slot?

Well based on the articles on GW community, they are doing little tweaks of our current model range, while removing Brood Brothers from our GSC detachments and restricting buffs to Core models. Unless they unveil whole new ways that we can compete and hold objectives, GSC may be worse after their new Codex rather than better.
I would have expected a hint by now if there were new units

I have to ask, what is your source on them removing brood brothers? Because I do not think that is confirmed yet.

You are right - we don't know for sure that they are removing them from the codex, but the fact that in the Brood Brothers article they use a few units as an example of why you would want to include a detachment of BBs - and all of those units are currently part of the core GSC codex; infantry squads, heavy weapon teams, sentinels and leman russ tanks - why would you take a detachment to get them? The article is pretty ambiguous so there is still some wiggle room, but I am preparing for the worst.

I have no idea. But the article first claimed you could take a flyer, and that got redacted once it was pointed out it did not have the keyword.

Who ever is writing those articles is just doing their jobb. They are probably just naming familiar things to get their workload away.

I also feel the article could easily be talking about two different things. Brood brothers in the codex. And then in the nect paragraph about how awesome cult allies can be. It is all in all a bit anbigius. But I doubt they leave us with only 1 heavy support unit.

hangnailnz wrote:
You are right - we don't know for sure that they are removing them from the codex, but the fact that in the Brood Brothers article they use a few units as an example of why you would want to include a detachment of BBs - and all of those units are currently part of the core GSC codex; infantry squads, heavy weapon teams, sentinels and leman russ tanks - why would you take a detachment to get them? The article is pretty ambiguous so there is still some wiggle room, but I am preparing for the worst.

Considering how one of the most common complaints was that BB didn't really benefit from any of the auras or whatever...is it really a huge surprise they might just cut them?

Also worth mentioning that Guard is due for an update. We don't know when or how big of one it's going to be. Would you rather have static, locked units...or things that can be altered?

 Kanluwen wrote:

hangnailnz wrote:
You are right - we don't know for sure that they are removing them from the codex, but the fact that in the Brood Brothers article they use a few units as an example of why you would want to include a detachment of BBs - and all of those units are currently part of the core GSC codex; infantry squads, heavy weapon teams, sentinels and leman russ tanks - why would you take a detachment to get them? The article is pretty ambiguous so there is still some wiggle room, but I am preparing for the worst.

Considering how one of the most common complaints was that BB didn't really benefit from any of the auras or whatever...is it really a huge surprise they might just cut them?

Also worth mentioning that Guard is due for an update. We don't know when or how big of one it's going to be. Would you rather have static, locked units...or things that can be altered?

They would undoubtedly errata them. We don't live in the age of "Outside of point changes or extreme cases your printed books are sacrosanct" anymore, and the humble Leman Russ under discussion is enough evidence of that.

They didn't print Knights in the AdMech book to errata them later.

They just cut them out entirely.

 Kanluwen wrote:
They didn't print Knights in the AdMech book to errata them later.

They just cut them out entirely.

I was not addressing the first part of your post, but the second:

Also worth mentioning that Guard is due for an update. We don't know when or how big of one it's going to be. Would you rather have static, locked units...or things that can be altered?

You imply here that we only have two possibilities: 1. The IG units being removed entirely but then the new, updated (and presumably better?) versions being available when the 9E IG book drops. 2. The IG units are included again, but when the 9E IG book drops we are then stuck with outdated versions of their datasheets while the IG enjoy (presumably better) updated datasheets.

I'm saying that possibility 2 as you present it is not a foregone conclusion, because GW has already on multiple times proven that they are not adverse to changing wargear, statlines, or datasheets after a book has released in 9E, unlike previous editions where at best they updated points/PL. We could potentially have possibility 2, which then gets updated via errata to reflect whatever changes come with the 9E IG codex.


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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/07/obliterate-enemies-of-the-cult-with-these-souped-up-industrial-weapons/

Weapon previews pretty much confirm the discord leaks, along with a few pages that are leaking, in general it doesn't seem to paint a pretty picture from either the crunch perspective nor army flavor perspective.

I am seeing some silver linings, contingent on some restrictions and other info we don't have yet. Getting T1 deep strike on a unit for only 10 points is amazing, but if it's limit 1 per army then you're most likely just offering up that unit to be slaughtered. I am intensely curious as to why they think the Iconward is worth 75 points, that guy must have gotten a heck of a glow-up.

Doomerism is rife - but yeah, at least on the raw stats I'm not really convinced anything special is happening from the leaks.

"The mining laser now does D6 damage".

Am I... uh... going mad or did it not do that today?

Points will decide things - and how easy it is in practice to active Crossfire. But it feels like an army that has always relied on gimmicks is going to keep doing so.

Edit - Didn't realise the points had already leaked a couple of hours ago. Probably should digest for a few minutes.

Edit 2.
Yeah. Going to stick with the view this is codex Crossfire and some assault. Whether it works or is just fiddly then everything dies remains to be seen. Abbs at 30 points might be "interesting" with the extra wound and T5. Especially if they've kept their -1 damage and 5+++. Which someone probably knows by now but I'm struggling to keep up.

They do currently do D6 damage. Most likely the person in charge of writing the articles had a hard copy of the 8e codex in front of them and saw that they were D3 damage, because that's what they printed and then errata'd.

Madjob wrote:
They do currently do D6 damage. Most likely the person in charge of writing the articles had a hard copy of the 8e codex in front of them and saw that they were D3 damage, because that's what they printed and then errata'd.

When even the company making the rules struggles to keep things straight because of misprints and day 1 FAQs they should probably pause and rethink their process because it's currently one of the worst in the industry somehow despite their growth and success.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Madjob wrote:
They do currently do D6 damage. Most likely the person in charge of writing the articles had a hard copy of the 8e codex in front of them and saw that they were D3 damage, because that's what they printed and then errata'd.

When even the company making the rules struggles to keep things straight because of misprints and day 1 FAQs they should probably pause and rethink their process because it's currently one of the worst in the industry somehow despite their growth and success.

Or maybe, just maybe, players need to accept that there has never actually been an onus on people to know every single army's minutia?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Madjob wrote:
They do currently do D6 damage. Most likely the person in charge of writing the articles had a hard copy of the 8e codex in front of them and saw that they were D3 damage, because that's what they printed and then errata'd.

When even the company making the rules struggles to keep things straight because of misprints and day 1 FAQs they should probably pause and rethink their process because it's currently one of the worst in the industry somehow despite their growth and success.

Or maybe, just maybe, players need to accept that there has never actually been an onus on people to know every single army's minutia?

I'm all for cutting employees slack but by definition someone whose job is to write about a product to promote said product absolutely has an onus to know the details of the product being sold.

That's not how that works.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Madjob wrote:
They do currently do D6 damage. Most likely the person in charge of writing the articles had a hard copy of the 8e codex in front of them and saw that they were D3 damage, because that's what they printed and then errata'd.

When even the company making the rules struggles to keep things straight because of misprints and day 1 FAQs they should probably pause and rethink their process because it's currently one of the worst in the industry somehow despite their growth and success.

Or maybe, just maybe, players need to accept that there has never actually been an onus on people to know every single army's minutia?

Where was I blaming that employee?

I was calling out the billion dollar company that can't even be bothered to update an inaccurate product that's 4 years old and still being sold. Mistakes happen, but every print after the problem was found should be corrected going forward.

No please. That would lead to having to download the right FAQ for the right version of the book. It is not a solution I prefer.


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So this Zara Kane is hitting them out of the ballpark. All sorts of leaks.

https://youtu.be/W8SQUUR7xkk

 Niiai wrote:
No please. That would lead to having to download the right FAQ for the right version of the book. It is not a solution I prefer.

No it wouldn't. GW would just fix there busted product moving forward.

Welp, looks like we're a bit behind the times here on dakka.

Let me help.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1b43IJ9suTCkBXarqgnUYw-4IHATsp88M?usp=sharing


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General codex Overview: Positive. Seems fairly balanced, I'd expect high mid-tier performance competitively, though there might be some cheese to be had with durability skew, it seems like you can really stack up some zany buffs, spamming trucks+rockgrinders+ridgerunners in a custom detachment could get problematic, but i dont think it'll be buggies-level bad as the firepower out of ridgerunners just aint the firepower out of ork buggies.

Weapons: Seismic up, Cutters up, Flamers up, Ridgerunner Missiles up, Ridgerunner mortars still sad, Webbers (IMO) still sad, stubbers still sad, drills still sad - but different sad!

Units: Aberrants up, Purestrains up, Metamorphs up, Jackals up, iconward up, Alphus down, Trucks up, Patriarch down, Abominant still sad, Knife Sanctus still sad (but sniper sanctus good!) All infantry looks preeeeeeeeeeetty decent tbh, reasons to take it all, and its all got kind of its own niche. I like it a lot. Neophytes look good with a couple builds - I like seismic neos and laser neos not terrible.

Kelermorph has suffered an unfortunate damage nerf, but has gained one of possibly THE best troll abilities in the game - he gets to make a normal move, and can explicitly do it after he deep strikes.

Is there a tank that needs tying up? An objective that has to be hopped on? A wall to hide behind? A truck to jump into? kelermorph is on it. It really seems like GW wants him to not be a suicide gunman...though he does have a fancy new strat for him doing just that, 2cp to shoot when he dies.


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If you're currently spamming ridgerunners and trucks, you're not sad - ridgerunners are still good, and have one of the best use cases for one of our best strats: +1 to damage for ranged industrial weapons...which includes Heavy Mining Lasers (though not the missile launchers the RRs pack, which are decent now). So you can have 3d3 ML shots with +1 damage for 1cp!


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There seems to be a compelling reason to use MOST cults and some custom cult combos. Main use for custom cults appears to be the general setup of:

-all models get mini-transhuman for no wound on 2s

-all models MAY ignore ANY OR ALL modifiers to hit rolls with Industrial Weapons (which is, basically, most gsc-specific guns and melee weapons)....this means you can IGNORE negative mods, like say the -1 to hit mod for the flat damge 3 rock cutter, and KEEP positive mods, like say Crossfire. Its a seriously fire trait, the best custom one

-Vehicles and bikes get 6+ FNP

and you basically take this with tons of bikes, tons of vheicles, and units like Acolytes with Cutters, Aberrants, etc in those vehicles


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me personally I dont get the appeal of CT4AE this edition, others seem to think its got teeth. Rusted Claw seems overshadowed by the aforementioned custom cult which does everything it does but slightly better and just loses out on a fairly meh strat power relic and trait.

Bladed Cog seems solid for big buffed up bomb units using its strat like 10 Aberrants with 5++/5+FNP from Biophagus, Pauper Princes make for a great "Purple Tide" list with iconward making a bunch of melee units obnoxiously durable, Twisted Helix purestrains slap my entire bod, and Hivecult is basically the shooty gotta have damage cult.


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HOLD UP no i just figured the drill out.

It's Sx2 Ap-4 D1, automatically wounds, if it scores a 6 to hit 2 mortal wounds.

This averages out slightly worse than the saw, and always worse than the cutter against most targets,

BUT

completely ignores -1 damge AND transhuman based abilities - so against those and obviously W1 targets the drill ends up on top.

Neat! So its got some teeth (heh) and its probably useful to bring 1 drill unit in your list.

Here's a tidbit - models that emerge from underground can be set up more than 8" away rather than 9", which instantly improves your charge success from 28% to 42%, and then if you have the 'roll 3 dice, drop one' rule from A Trap Sprung, that jumps again to 68%. Still sucks if you don't make it, but the chances just got much better...
Also, you can't split fire if you want to give a unit a Crossfire token - which is fine... but worth thinking about.
Acolytes buying Demo charges get two at a time, which makes them a bit more competitive against the heavy mining weapons - although how many units are going to get to drop their second round of demos is up for question!

There is a lot of flexibility with crossfire and exposed, I'm seeing. Plenty of ways to trigger it without having to get units lined across from each other, and tons of units have crossfire in the first place. Jackal Alphus and Sanctus stand out, both having crossfire, multi-damage weapons, high accuracy, and either give themselves the benefit of exposed or granting it to other units.