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 Kaiyanwang wrote:

Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:

Why a mek would have standarized and enforced weaponry is a design decision I will never ever understand.

The medical term is "Post-Chapterhouse Stress Disorder", or PCSD.

The cure for which involves a proctologist...

BrianDavion wrote:

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
Maybe Orruktober with the AoS release?

 Mmmpi wrote:
Nope, this year it's going to be "All Saints Day Sisters"

Sisters in Nunvember?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:
honestly I think 90% of the Orktober hype was fan created.

GW did a bad job of managing expectations and many Ork players did a bad job of managing their own expectations.

I think it was ahrd to manage them, I remember nearly a year in advance we where getting so called rumors caliming "2018 WILL BE THE YEAR OF THE XENOS! OCTOBER WILL BE ORKTOBER AND IT WILL BE BIG!" so when the claimed year of the xenos doesn't arrive (or more accurately it wasn't what people expected) people got upset. you saw people raging because GW released custodes in febuary, and "IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE YEAR OF THE XENOS"

by time 2018 had arrived people I think expected NOTHING but xenos releases and expected a compelte reissue of the eldar and ork ranges etc

Well lets take a look at the releases for 8th and try to understand why Xenos players were a bit peeved. Codex releases in order: Space Marines, Grey Knights, Death Guard, Adeptus Mechanicus, First Xenos Race, Space Elves, Imperial Guard, SECOND Xenos race, Australian Wildlife, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Chaos Daemons, Custodes, Thousand Sons. So of the first 12 releases, 2 were Xenos. After that we had Tau, Crons, Dark Space Elves and Harlequins before 3 more imperial factions Deathwatch, Knights and Space puppies. After all of that you finally had orkz. In other words, Xenos were basically an afterthought for 8th edition and it shows by the release schedule. As far as the Orktober release itself, well that was a bit of a disappointment in itself due to the fact that the releases were underwhelming to say the least. I love the new kits...a bit, but the rules are trash and the codex left us with a lot to wonder about, like wtf was GW smoking. One of the biggest complaints orkz had that they wanted addressed was the plethora of units that were basically unusable, they found a way to actually make some of these units even more useless. My Biker Horde and Deff Kopta Skawdron is still collecting dust

Regardless, maybe we get lucky in CA .

so wjhat you;re saying is there's a grand total of 6 xenos armies in the game and thus imperial and chaos releases come more often?

WELL NO gak.

And this BTW is my biggest problem with the Xenos whine fest. they seem to think a release of Space Wolves is somehow something guard players should snap up. some of us (in fact a lot of us) like to play mono codex. hell space wolves where rightly annoyed having to wait so long for their codex considering how much of it was cut and paste from the SM codex.

BrianDavion wrote:
so wjhat you;re saying is there's a grand total of 6 xenos armies in the game and thus imperial and chaos releases come more often?

WELL NO gak.

And this BTW is my biggest problem with the Xenos whine fest. they seem to think a release of Space Wolves is somehow something guard players should snap up. some of us (in fact a lot of us) like to play mono codex. hell space wolves where rightly annoyed having to wait so long for their codex considering how much of it was cut and paste from the SM codex.

Why are there so many SM factions? Aren't they the exact same army with just a few differences? How about for Eldar they get a completely different codex for each Craft World? How about for every Tau Sept they get a different Codex? How about for every hive fleet there is a different codex? How about for orkz each Klan gets its own Codex?

So why are there so many imperial/chaos factions? Because GW has turned each aspect of them into a different codex. Tau, Ork, Eldar, Necrons, Nidz, Dark Eldar, Harlequins and Genestealers. With the exceptions of Genestealers which are a subset of Nidz and Harlequins which are a subset of Eldar, every faction could get numerous sub faction codexs.

LOL.

Because the Imperial factions SELL. the IoM is the narative focus of 40k. there are a huge number of factions within in that lend themselves to entire codices. such as the admech custodes, space marines, Imperial guard etc. what fluff support is there for say an entire ARMY of guys attached to eldar titans that are seperate from eldar (just as an example)

and yes other subfactions could get their own codex (hell a Ork Freebooterz Codex would be a fun diea and easy to make distinct from normal Orks) but the fact is there's also the MONEY issue. GW belives for some reason that there's not sufficant intreast in 15 differant varities of eldar. and TBH.. they're proably right.

End of the day, we have the factions we have because GW is a busniess and there's insufficant intreast in "codex obscure alien race part 2"

BrianDavion wrote:
Because the Imperial factions SELL. the IoM is the narative focus of 40k. there are a huge number of factions within in that lend themselves to entire codices. such as the admech custodes, space marines, Imperial guard etc. what fluff support is there for say an entire ARMY of guys attached to eldar titans that are seperate from eldar (just as an example)

and yes other subfactions could get their own codex (hell a Ork Freebooterz Codex would be a fun diea and easy to make distinct from normal Orks) but the fact is there's also the MONEY issue. GW belives for some reason that there's not sufficant intreast in 15 differant varities of eldar. and TBH.. they're proably right.

End of the day, we have the factions we have because GW is a busniess and there's insufficant intreast in "codex obscure alien race part 2"

Have you ever heard of a catch 22? Because IoM armies SELL! maybe they sell because they get more new factions, more new units, more new rules and more updates then any other faction by a long shot. Orkz went from 4th edition to 8th edition with a handful of new units being added. We had a bunch of units finally get upgraded from the 80s and 90s mind you but I am talking strictly about new units. Just Space Marines, what did they get? I will bet you a fair chunk of change that it was a lot more then orkz got. Same for most Xenos armies. Hell, Space Marines probably got more new releases then the entirety of the Xenos combined.

BrianDavion wrote:
Because the Imperial factions SELL.

I can't count how many times I've heard some variant on 'I really like Eldar, but I don't want to build an army that's all Finecast'.

Imperial factions, and Space Marines in particular, are the best-supported, get the most new kits, have the most synergy on the tabletop, are the perspective that 90+% of the fiction is written from, and are the starting point new players are steered towards- is it any wonder they sell more?

catbarf wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Because the Imperial factions SELL.

I can't count how many times I've heard some variant on 'I really like Eldar, but I don't want to build an army that's all Finecast'.

Imperial factions, and Space Marines in particular, are the best-supported, get the most new kits, have the most synergy on the tabletop, are the perspective that 90+% of the fiction is written from, and are the starting point new players are steered towards- is it any wonder they sell more?

"because effort is put into making a faction sell is it any surprise it sells more" - Catbarf

There was a local player who has a space marine army and a few other armies. when the ork buggies were shown he showed interest in starting orks. after seeing the ork codex and seeign how much more it would cost to build an effective army he bailed on the idea.

mek guns were a big factor there as was needing 3 boxes of boyz to make one troop choice. $105 USD for 210 points of boyz, literallt $.50 per point (he only wants new on sprue models and buys retail price from a local store that does not do any discounts)

 G00fySmiley wrote:
There was a local player who has a space marine army and a few other armies. when the ork buggies were shown he showed interest in starting orks. after seeing the ork codex and seeign how much more it would cost to build an effective army he bailed on the idea.

mek guns were a big factor there as was needing 3 boxes of boyz to make one troop choice. $105 USD for 210 points of boyz, literallt $.50 per point (he only wants new on sprue models and buys retail price from a local store that does not do any discounts)

There's not really any getting round "making an Ork army is more expensive than a Space Marine one because the former requires more models" though, is there? It's kind of baked into the faction identity, and has been the case pretty much forever.

 Nazrak wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
There was a local player who has a space marine army and a few other armies. when the ork buggies were shown he showed interest in starting orks. after seeing the ork codex and seeign how much more it would cost to build an effective army he bailed on the idea.

mek guns were a big factor there as was needing 3 boxes of boyz to make one troop choice. $105 USD for 210 points of boyz, literallt $.50 per point (he only wants new on sprue models and buys retail price from a local store that does not do any discounts)

There's not really any getting round "making an Ork army is more expensive than a Space Marine one because the former requires more models" though, is there? It's kind of baked into the faction identity, and has been the case pretty much forever.

while true, there are some particularly offensive models like the mek guns that can cost over $1 per point. I undersand they want to mak a certain amount of profit per kit just seems horde troops in general are overcosted money wise considering how many you need. I jsut wish GW put mroe it the box, like 15 boys in a box or 17 termigaunts in a box to kind of offset that a bit

I have zero expectations for another Orktober I don't care if the ever have another one or not. The last one was such a huge disappointment in my opinion. It turned into such a buzz kill.

 warhead01 wrote:
I have zero expectations for another Orktober I don't care if the ever have another one or not. The last one was such a huge disappointment in my opinion. It turned into such a buzz kill.

Yup, and honestly, there is basically no chance we get anything this year. At most I am hoping for some serious point changes in the near future, but even that is unlikely since GW can't seem to figure out that the Stompa has been over priced since......ever.

SemperMortis wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:
I have zero expectations for another Orktober I don't care if the ever have another one or not. The last one was such a huge disappointment in my opinion. It turned into such a buzz kill.

Yup, and honestly, there is basically no chance we get anything this year. At most I am hoping for some serious point changes in the near future, but even that is unlikely since GW can't seem to figure out that the Stompa has been over priced since......ever.

I think they and most other players jsut say "look it had 40 wounds" then ignore the degrading statline that basically makes it completely useless on the last 10 wounds, and ignore that it does not have an invunerable save..

 G00fySmiley wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:
I have zero expectations for another Orktober I don't care if the ever have another one or not. The last one was such a huge disappointment in my opinion. It turned into such a buzz kill.

Yup, and honestly, there is basically no chance we get anything this year. At most I am hoping for some serious point changes in the near future, but even that is unlikely since GW can't seem to figure out that the Stompa has been over priced since......ever.

I think they and most other players jsut say "look it had 40 wounds" then ignore the degrading statline that basically makes it completely useless on the last 10 wounds, and ignore that it does not have an invunerable save..

I've only ever seen a built stompa.
Not even once one on a table.
I belive my baneblade saw more play then the local shop owners stompa

Not Online!!! wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:
I have zero expectations for another Orktober I don't care if the ever have another one or not. The last one was such a huge disappointment in my opinion. It turned into such a buzz kill.

Yup, and honestly, there is basically no chance we get anything this year. At most I am hoping for some serious point changes in the near future, but even that is unlikely since GW can't seem to figure out that the Stompa has been over priced since......ever.

I think they and most other players jsut say "look it had 40 wounds" then ignore the degrading statline that basically makes it completely useless on the last 10 wounds, and ignore that it does not have an invunerable save..

I've only ever seen a built stompa.
Not even once one on a table.
I belive my baneblade saw more play then the local shop owners stompa

point wise there is an argument for it being the worst model in the game for power vs points cost.

it will consistently lose in matchups to a bog standard imperial knight at ~1/3 the cost.

It's not the worst model in the codex though

Admittedly, it's hard to beat the mek shop in levels of suck.

 Jidmah wrote:
It's not the worst model in the codex though

Admittedly, it's hard to beat the mek shop in levels of suck.

yea... that is like literally the "hey would you like to spend points to make your models less effective level bad".

Orks have had more new models than Tyranids, Necrons, Dark Eldar and Craftworlds combined in the last few years.

And that in itself is sad.

Orktober failed miserably last year after GW hyped it literally for MONTHS. What makes this year any different? At least last year there were rumors of new models, screen shots of buggies and a new game. Everyone wanted Gorkamorka II. Instead, GW once again tried to tell us, the players and consumers what we wanted and gave us a half- racing game. At least the models look nice, but totally useless in 40K.

Orktober started as a joke, was given some legitimacy, and then GW dropped the ball and it's back to being a joke again.

SemperMortis wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
so wjhat you;re saying is there's a grand total of 6 xenos armies in the game and thus imperial and chaos releases come more often?

WELL NO gak.

And this BTW is my biggest problem with the Xenos whine fest. they seem to think a release of Space Wolves is somehow something guard players should snap up. some of us (in fact a lot of us) like to play mono codex. hell space wolves where rightly annoyed having to wait so long for their codex considering how much of it was cut and paste from the SM codex.

Why are there so many SM factions? Aren't they the exact same army with just a few differences? How about for Eldar they get a completely different codex for each Craft World? How about for every Tau Sept they get a different Codex? How about for every hive fleet there is a different codex? How about for orkz each Klan gets its own Codex?

So why are there so many imperial/chaos factions? Because GW has turned each aspect of them into a different codex. Tau, Ork, Eldar, Necrons, Nidz, Dark Eldar, Harlequins and Genestealers. With the exceptions of Genestealers which are a subset of Nidz and Harlequins which are a subset of Eldar, every faction could get numerous sub faction codexs.

LOL.

And why is that? Because they sell?

Shock horror GW is profit making company. What a newsflash! Never before revealed tidbit! Oooo the shock horror of profit making company making what people want to buy in droves!

as for other subfactions if GW can make them work I'd be 100% cool with them getting a codex. Farsight enclaves being a seperate codex, just for example makes perfect sense. if they've seperated and gone their own way I can see them not getting some new tau stuff but at the same time having their own innovations etc

tneva82 wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
so wjhat you;re saying is there's a grand total of 6 xenos armies in the game and thus imperial and chaos releases come more often?

WELL NO gak.

And this BTW is my biggest problem with the Xenos whine fest. they seem to think a release of Space Wolves is somehow something guard players should snap up. some of us (in fact a lot of us) like to play mono codex. hell space wolves where rightly annoyed having to wait so long for their codex considering how much of it was cut and paste from the SM codex.

Why are there so many SM factions? Aren't they the exact same army with just a few differences? How about for Eldar they get a completely different codex for each Craft World? How about for every Tau Sept they get a different Codex? How about for every hive fleet there is a different codex? How about for orkz each Klan gets its own Codex?

So why are there so many imperial/chaos factions? Because GW has turned each aspect of them into a different codex. Tau, Ork, Eldar, Necrons, Nidz, Dark Eldar, Harlequins and Genestealers. With the exceptions of Genestealers which are a subset of Nidz and Harlequins which are a subset of Eldar, every faction could get numerous sub faction codexs.

LOL.

And why is that? Because they sell?

Shock horror GW is profit making company. What a newsflash! Never before revealed tidbit! Oooo the shock horror of profit making company making what people want to buy in droves!

Could you please use more buzzwords? I still recognize some independent thought here and there.
Also this is the line of reasoning people used to justify the killing of skirmish/small number of minis games from GW like Bloodbowl, Necromunda etc. And it's a nonsense anyway, because lack of a diversified line could lead to a lose of interests in the customers ("I only face marines").
They could re-make the aspect warriors and then make as many more types, with the new tech and means they have now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:

Why a mek would have standarized and enforced weaponry is a design decision I will never ever understand.

The medical term is "Post-Chapterhouse Stress Disorder", or PCSD.

The cure for which involves a proctologist...

That's for the customers

tneva82 wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
so wjhat you;re saying is there's a grand total of 6 xenos armies in the game and thus imperial and chaos releases come more often?

WELL NO gak.

And this BTW is my biggest problem with the Xenos whine fest. they seem to think a release of Space Wolves is somehow something guard players should snap up. some of us (in fact a lot of us) like to play mono codex. hell space wolves where rightly annoyed having to wait so long for their codex considering how much of it was cut and paste from the SM codex.

Why are there so many SM factions? Aren't they the exact same army with just a few differences? How about for Eldar they get a completely different codex for each Craft World? How about for every Tau Sept they get a different Codex? How about for every hive fleet there is a different codex? How about for orkz each Klan gets its own Codex?

So why are there so many imperial/chaos factions? Because GW has turned each aspect of them into a different codex. Tau, Ork, Eldar, Necrons, Nidz, Dark Eldar, Harlequins and Genestealers. With the exceptions of Genestealers which are a subset of Nidz and Harlequins which are a subset of Eldar, every faction could get numerous sub faction codexs.

LOL.

And why is that? Because they sell?

Shock horror GW is profit making company. What a newsflash! Never before revealed tidbit! Oooo the shock horror of profit making company making what people want to buy in droves!

chicken and the egg predicament. GW keeps releasing new space marine kits and so more space marine kits sell.

My tau army is basically done. If GW tomorrow came out with a new tau kit me and most tau players would probably buy it as we have not had something new since the ghostkeel a year ago. and i need more gundams... err tau in my hobby time.

My ork army i keep growing it but only because i build a lot of conversions. Ironically there I like orkifying/looting new kits be there space marine chaos or xenos. when i bought my first primaris dred to loot it add some scrap and make it orky did GW count that as an ork sale?

I dont' personally play Necrons but they have not havd a new model since what.. that special version of the HQ (cryptech?) in the forgebane box? it had been a long time since befoer that that they had new kits.

Eldar also have some pretty old sculpts, they got the new spiritser model, but has been a while since they got new kits. last one was the recent spiritseer option but cannot even thingk of the last one before that.

I am not implying that GW should stop releasing primaris or space marines, but they should probably aim to do like a token chaos or xenos kit with every space marine release. like.. here are 4 brand new marines kits... and hey here is a new farseer sculpt. or here are 4 new primaris kits... and we know there literally is not a warboss kit that you can currently buy with a power claw so we finally listened and made one, bonus points if since the current warboss is STILL a metal model they make a plastic kit with a big choppa and a powerclaw option.

Maybe if they did modernize or release something cool more players would migrate to xenos armies or think about collecting them.

As others have said, Marines sell well because of market saturation more than army bias.

Like, if I have a fruit stand selling apples and oranges, and I only have 1 orange for every 10 apples, everyone who sees my sales sheet is gonna think people like apples more than oranges.

I wish GW would just do releases in general instead of doing these big massive releases that last mooooonths.

 Ginjitzu wrote:
Is this really a thing again this year? I haven't heard anything about it.

I mean, it was barely a thing last year. I think we only had the box set actually release in October. Wouldn't hold out for much this year.

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:

Why a mek would have standarized and enforced weaponry is a design decision I will never ever understand.

The medical term is "Post-Chapterhouse Stress Disorder", or PCSD.

The cure for which involves a proctologist...

That's for the customers

Nah, the Legal department and/or senior management - basically whoever decided that punishing customers for their own ineptitude was the right way to go.

 dan2026 wrote:
Orks have had more new models than Tyranids, Necrons, Dark Eldar and Craftworlds combined in the last few years.

And that in itself is sad.

Our new kits in 8th amount to what? We got 6 replacement buggies for the 3 that got index'd out of existence....which btw, those buggies were like RT era sculpts. Ironically the sales of those buggies didn't do very well since even though the models look alright, the rules were so shoddy that basically none are seen at the competitive events.

What else did we get recently? Honestly because I can't remember? Back at the start of 7th we got the mek guns and Gork/Morkanauts.....do they count even though that was 5 years ago?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:


And why is that? Because they sell?

Shock horror GW is profit making company. What a newsflash! Never before revealed tidbit! Oooo the shock horror of profit making company making what people want to buy in droves!

As mentioned already, chicken/egg scenario. For every new Xenos release how many SM releases are there? So shock and amazement that SM kits sell. Plus if you are new to the hobby and you look at the army lines you are almost forced to play SM's because it doesn't take long to figure out that they are without a doubt the most heavily updated army in the game. I mean hell, every year or so GW announces a new version of SM's to become a thing. First we had SMs then we had specific armies for all the first founding chapters, then we had Legion of the damned and grey knights and then we added in the Custodes and the Deathwatch and now we have the Primaris releases. They each came out with their own lines of models when they were released as well. So yeah, no fething wonder SM's sell. They get 10-15 releases for every release another faction gets.

SemperMortis wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
Orks have had more new models than Tyranids, Necrons, Dark Eldar and Craftworlds combined in the last few years.

And that in itself is sad.

Our new kits in 8th amount to what? We got 6 replacement buggies for the 3 that got index'd out of existence....which btw, those buggies were like RT era sculpts. Ironically the sales of those buggies didn't do very well since even though the models look alright, the rules were so shoddy that basically none are seen at the competitive events.

What else did we get recently? Honestly because I can't remember? Back at the start of 7th we got the mek guns and Gork/Morkanauts.....do they count even though that was 5 years ago?

Not disagreeing with you, but for completion:
6th Dakkajet/Blitza Bommer/Burna Bommer
7th: Grukk/Warboss, SAG Mek, Mekboy, Painboy, MANz/MA Big Mek, Flash Gits, Mek Guns, Wazbomm Blastajet, Gorkanaut/Morkanaut
8th: Boomdakka Snazzwagon,Deffkilla Wartrike, Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy, Megatrakk Scrapjet, Kustom Boosta-blasta, Shokkjump Dragsta, Mek Workshop

What our Tyranid, Tau and Craftworld friends seem to forget is that more than half their current range has been released after or shortly before the ork's 7th edition update (almost all of the non-horde bugs, jet bikes, pretty much all of the battlesuits). The only ones who really didn't get a lot in "recent years" are necrons.
If you go back to 5th those armies got even more, since dark eldar, necrons and nids pretty much were created as they are during that edition.