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And end my suffering and complete of hatred of all things primaris? Anyone else really fed up with this life support they have left classic marines with? I just want them to be phased out so I can drop the army already rather then be led along. To be god honest I'm about ready to drop this hobby, or at least anything to do with marines with how bad of a taste primaris has left on me.

General rant I guess

Yeah I'm really hoping the rhino is just a re-boxing before sisters, if it's actually out of print that totally sucks.

seems like th enew chapter tactics are going to help classic marines. personally my biker armies look to have gotten stronger with the new tactics assumign points stay the same. also my blue tide list of max tac marines iron hands got stronger.

I don't see a problem as it stands. There's someone on here that plays normal marines adamantly. Plus this new codex is breathing life into everything not just Primaris marines. If Primaris is what's driving you to drop an entire hobby then I don't think this is the hobby for you

You can let GW define the hobby for you or you can define it yourself. Granted, going your own way will leave you out a lot of games and playing whatever edition you enjoy. Better then frustration and resentment but if you feel that strong about it maybe it is better if you put it behind you.

 Viridian wrote:
You can let GW define the hobby for you or you can define it yourself. Granted, going your own way will leave you out a lot of games and playing whatever edition you enjoy. Better then frustration and resentment but if you feel that strong about it maybe it is better if you put it behind you.

While I get that the problem is GW IS defining my hobby by force, and phasing out the units I came to love and actually like to paint and field. Dark angels, raven wing, deathwing, loved their lore their orginization, but now they are being phased out, and if the rino and or Razer back don't come back. GW is all but telling people like me, hey we don't want you for space marines anymore.

 fraser1191 wrote:
I don't see a problem as it stands. There's someone on here that plays normal marines adamantly. Plus this new codex is breathing life into everything not just Primaris marines. If Primaris is what's driving you to drop an entire hobby then I don't think this is the hobby for you

I personally dislike Primaris because of the anti consumer business practices that are being used to force people to buy all new products. The whole Primaris fluff and the 180 heel turn in fluff to justify their existance reeks of a marketing lead decision making instead of one made from a creative standpoint. It's honestly somewhat insulting to do the whole "love it or leave it" garbage when people have been invested in the hobby for years and for GW to make major changes that invalidate their efforts. Given the time + money investment that is required for 40k, it's fairly reasonable for people to be unhappy with the changes and voice their displeasure instead of just shoving thousands of dollars + hours of effort into a box and walking away.

Personally I stopped buying from GW because of the paper thin and shallow rule set of 8th more than anything to do with Primaris. I won't buy Primaris because of what it stands for but if the game was actually good (my subjective opinion) then I would continue to buy product lines such as Orks, Tau, Classic Marines, etc.

They already confirmed on the facebook page that the rhino is just a reboxing.

I genuinely don't understand the primaris hate. Maybe its because I'm just so new to the hobby. but I genuinely didn't even realize that primaris were different from regular marines for the first couple months I was playing (I don't collect marines myself. so I just them in my opponents lists).

People are always going on about how regular marines are going to get squatted. But like, what will stop you from just using the old models as "counts as" primaris at that point? whats stopping you now?

 Vankraken wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:
I don't see a problem as it stands. There's someone on here that plays normal marines adamantly. Plus this new codex is breathing life into everything not just Primaris marines. If Primaris is what's driving you to drop an entire hobby then I don't think this is the hobby for you

I personally dislike Primaris because of the anti consumer business practices that are being used to force people to buy all new products. The whole Primaris fluff and the 180 heel turn in fluff to justify their existance reeks of a marketing lead decision making instead of one made from a creative standpoint. It's honestly somewhat insulting to do the whole "love it or leave it" garbage when people have been invested in the hobby for years and for GW to make major changes that invalidate their efforts. Given the time + money investment that is required for 40k, it's fairly reasonable for people to be unhappy with the changes and voice their displeasure instead of just shoving thousands of dollars + hours of effort into a box and walking away.

Personally I stopped buying from GW because of the paper thin and shallow rule set of 8th more than anything to do with Primaris. I won't buy Primaris because of what it stands for but if the game was actually good (my subjective opinion) then I would continue to buy product lines such as Orks, Tau, Classic Marines, etc.

This hit it on the nose. Honestly it's not even anger. It's just...disappointment, because everything I actually cared about has been shoveled aside. The only thing now that actually draws my attention are the bigger unitsostly just for the painting of them. So I guess instead of marines I'm just gonna build and paint Titans now

Classic marines just got a big buff it seems - none of these changes are exclusive for primaris. They are getting the new units but...why not just buy them?

 Vankraken wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:
I don't see a problem as it stands. There's someone on here that plays normal marines adamantly. Plus this new codex is breathing life into everything not just Primaris marines. If Primaris is what's driving you to drop an entire hobby then I don't think this is the hobby for you

I personally dislike Primaris because of the anti consumer business practices that are being used to force people to buy all new products. The whole Primaris fluff and the 180 heel turn in fluff to justify their existance reeks of a marketing lead decision making instead of one made from a creative standpoint. It's honestly somewhat insulting to do the whole "love it or leave it" garbage when people have been invested in the hobby for years and for GW to make major changes that invalidate their efforts. Given the time + money investment that is required for 40k, it's fairly reasonable for people to be unhappy with the changes and voice their displeasure instead of just shoving thousands of dollars + hours of effort into a box and walking away.

Personally I stopped buying from GW because of the paper thin and shallow rule set of 8th more than anything to do with Primaris. I won't buy Primaris because of what it stands for but if the game was actually good (my subjective opinion) then I would continue to buy product lines such as Orks, Tau, Classic Marines, etc.

I'm not saying love it or leave it. It just initially seems like hating on Primaris for existing. I don't see classic marines going away soon or even at all. I'm sure GW saw how well up sized chaos marines did and will do it to classic later.

balmong7 wrote:
They already confirmed on the facebook page that the rhino is just a reboxing.

I genuinely don't understand the primaris hate. Maybe its because I'm just so new to the hobby. but I genuinely didn't even realize that primaris were different from regular marines for the first couple months I was playing (I don't collect marines myself. so I just them in my opponents lists).

People are always going on about how regular marines are going to get squatted. But like, what will stop you from just using the old models as "counts as" primaris at that point? whats stopping you now?

To answer your question what will stop you, GW, GW will stop you. If you play in their stores or events they will.

To give you an example as to the hate, I'll try to give you an example. Imagine you had a classic car, just think of a classic car you like and you put in a lot of time, money, passion, and energy into it. And you always would take it to the biggest car show that was in reasonable distance to you. Everyone liked having you there, it was a good time. Then, one day, for no real reason, the car show you took your car to, one day said, hey every that came out after this year is not considered a classic anymore by us and can't be entered into the show, you can still bring it down, but it's not officially part of the show. And your classic car was at the cut off and can't enter. So now that thing you put so much time energy and money into is no longer valid at the show you always loved entering and had been a part of for years.

Your gonna feel kinda left out, and upset because they just instantly turned their back on you. Sure you can buy a new car that fits their guide lines but it's not the classic care you like, so really your just buying the new classic car to be able to enter the show with any car not the one you like.

That's what it feels like to be a space marines player who used to play classic marines.

If classic marines are going to be on the chopping block eventually, it won't be for a while - they've got a vast range of plastic kits, many of which are far newer and crisper than a huge number of kits for other armies. The moulds are there and paid for themselves, nothing required but running some castings. Smaller production volumes than in 2016, perhaps, but they probably still outsell quite a few kits for the less popular factions.

Though after seeing those elf/dwarf fantasy kits put on last chance recently, it makes me want to buy more classic marines for my Salamanders army, just in case. I mean, rules are temporary, models are forever. And I care more about my collection than any rulesets or gaming with them anyway.

I'll also point out that GW has reintroduced a number of non primaris units back into the codex supplements that had been left on index life support.

This isn't the squatting that people keep trying to make it, GW likes money if they can sell old kits and new kits they'll sell everything that's profitable be that old marines, new marines or even heresy marines. Don't let the primaris fanboys make it seem all doom and gloom, even thr last Marine list to win an even was using a mix of both and if anything old marines gain way more from +1A than primaris also what CCW do primaris marines have?

Goodbye.

I don't want to see classic marines go away; but I'm definitely happy with the new primaris stuff.

Honestly, there's not a lot to love in oldmarine infantry, but a lot of the new Vanguard stuff actually has me enthusiastic about playing with my Space Wolves.

That said, it's also really expensive. At $100 for a Executioner, I feel like I might as well just buy myself another Shadowsword. I'd have bought it at $75 but $100 is in the realm of super-heavies and major centerpieces. And $60 for 10 infantry? I'm usually the one to observe that 40k isn't that expensive in the grand scheme of adult hobbies, but if 10 plastic infantry are more than a tank, I'll usually chose tank.

G00fySmiley wrote:seems like th enew chapter tactics are going to help classic marines. personally my biker armies look to have gotten stronger with the new tactics assumign points stay the same. also my blue tide list of max tac marines iron hands got stronger.

With few exception, primaris marines don't seem to be too good in the game. If these recent buffs were to try and help primaris marines, then it looks like it will help old marines more, except for areas where they suffer compared to primaris (survivability against massed weak weapons).

balmong7 wrote:They already confirmed on the facebook page that the rhino is just a reboxing.

I genuinely don't understand the primaris hate. Maybe its because I'm just so new to the hobby. but I genuinely didn't even realize that primaris were different from regular marines for the first couple months I was playing (I don't collect marines myself. so I just them in my opponents lists).

People are always going on about how regular marines are going to get squatted. But like, what will stop you from just using the old models as "counts as" primaris at that point? whats stopping you now?

Primaris marines are a deus ex machina, litterally. As far a proxies go, primaris marines don't have special weapons or lots of sergeant equipment options so it's hard to do a 1:1 conversion on a kitted out tactical squad. A marine with a boltgun can be called a primaris intercessor without much fuss but a sergeant with a lightning claw and plasma pistol can't be an intercessor sergeant with a chain sword very easily.

Why should they, Primaris and Astartes work well together.

The longer it takes for them to do this, the more if makes me think "Old Marines" will still be around for some unti types.
For example, Bikes, Landspeeders, Devs and even Tacticals could be present in the rules well into the next few editions. Units like Scouts, regular Dreads and a handful of characters could be dropped.

But I'm starting to doubt that ALL old Marines are going to be dropped entirely

-

Old marines are not going away I am almost certain of this now, but they will be changing I think, I get the feeling that tactical squads and the like will eventually be replaced and the elites/ veterans etc. will all be older marines, i also hope at some point primaris start to get mixed mks or armour because at the moment they look a bit dull with all wearing the same armour.

balmong7 wrote:
They already confirmed on the facebook page that the rhino is just a reboxing.

I genuinely don't understand the primaris hate. Maybe its because I'm just so new to the hobby. but I genuinely didn't even realize that primaris were different from regular marines for the first couple months I was playing (I don't collect marines myself. so I just them in my opponents lists).

People are always going on about how regular marines are going to get squatted. But like, what will stop you from just using the old models as "counts as" primaris at that point? whats stopping you now?

It's understandable a new player wouldn't understand because you've not seen an old marine army compared to a Primaris ine. With the old marine armies, there was a ton of different units, loadouts and abilities, so chapters easily stood apart from one another. White scars had a ton of bikes and landspeeders. Blood Angels had a ton of jetpacks and heroes. Space Wolves got flanderized with the wolf wolf of the wolf but they had an identity. Take a look at an entirely Primaris marine army on the other hand. They're almost all identical, regardless of chapter. Wanna play white scars? Cool, you get to walk or ride in a Repulsor/hover rhino or be some fat inceptors with no melee. Wanna be blood angels? Same thing, hope you like walking or hitching a ride on a hovercraft or don't mind being a fat assault marine with no melee. Essentially it's the loadouts mainly. Old marines have a stupid amount of customization and wargear options (likely why GW wants to phase them out). Yes, I can proxy a Bolter marine as an intercessor, but what about assault marines? They're not dual wielding heavy bolters. What about bikes? They don't have a Primaris equivalent? What about devestators, who go from like 8 different weapons down to 3 different versions of plasma. A massive chunk of an okdmarines collection has no modern equivalent. Not to mention they're the largest playerbases by far, their line has the least excuse to be retired.

In addition, many of the classic marine units that are unique to codexes are not possible in a Primaris line. Death Company, Wulven, Dark Angels Deathwing and Ravenwing, space wolf "wolves", all are only possible due to geneseed mutations that have been removed due to the primaris being so perfect and pure. Gabriel Seth of the Flesh tearers explains it perfectly in the book Devestation of Baal, "these aren't blood Angels, they're Ultramarines in red paint. Without the flaw what makes them any different than any other marine out there?" Paraphrase of course. So all the stuff that makes the chapters unique, the wolf wolf of the wolf wolf Space Wolves get, the tragic vampire Noble Savage line blood Angels get, the dark brooding secrets of the Dark Angels, you get the idea. None of those are really possible with Primaris. Any geneseed mutations is fixed, any tragic backstory or history is ruined because the primaris don't care, they didn't do it. It basically kills a lot of what little justification each marine codex has for being it's own book. Heck even the dreads show GW either intentionally or unintentionally squatting the lore, with the new dreads burning their pilots out quickly, meaning other than old marines the primaris have no way to retain their most ancient warriors.

Take the new White Scars codex for example. Their hero is known for being on a bike, but Primaris don't have any bikes whatsoever. So they stuck him on foot, which is horribly against what he should be doing. Hell the entire Primaris line is an affront to the white scars fighting style. They've got no bikes, their assault marine equivalent are fat and slow with no melee options, and for the most part Primaris have no truly good melee units whatsoever. It's a line that's essentially just a walking gunline with some hover tanks forced into a chapter that hates that style of fighting. Remember that Primaris Space Wolf starter box from a while back? The only model that looked even remotely wolfy was the unique character, everything else was just painted a different shade of blue and called it a day.

Same goes for blood Angels, all the stuff they like to do they can't do with Primaris. Assault marines? Nope. Death company? Nope. Jump pack characters being badasses? Don't even get jetpacks on characters. Fast vehicles? Nah, have fun with a Repulsor.

So yeah I'm not even really a marine player but I get why they hate Primaris. The line is basically a giant middle finger mechanically, aesthetically, and lore wise to the established lore of most of the chapters. When characters in the books are outright calling Primaris generic replacements that lack the soul of what their chapter is meant to be, it's a problem. It reeks of a marketing team going "the classic marine isn't marketable in today's climate. We need a squeeky clean new version to replace them as the face".

I think they should be more clear on what is happening.

Do something like this:

1. Release a statement that Classic marines will be supported till 8th ends for Loyalist chapters, but will not have any new releases or codex related updates.

2. Explain Classic marines in the fluff are extinct within 200 years of the end of the indominus crusade.

3. Explain that some numbers of every chapter fearful of the high risk surgery went chaotic. Make a pfd on playing recently gone to chaos classic marines, and how to slap 8 pointed stars on them.

4. Explain that Classic marines from this point forward will be 30K releases, or Chaos.

Wash your hands and let the Cryin begin.

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 Viridian wrote:
You can let GW define the hobby for you or you can define it yourself. Granted, going your own way will leave you out a lot of games and playing whatever edition you enjoy. Better then frustration and resentment but if you feel that strong about it maybe it is better if you put it behind you.

While I get that the problem is GW IS defining my hobby by force, and phasing out the units I came to love and actually like to paint and field. Dark angels, raven wing, deathwing, loved their lore their orginization, but now they are being phased out, and if the rino and or Razer back don't come back. GW is all but telling people like me, hey we don't want you for space marines anymore.

Nothing has been phased out at this point.

Why do you need GW to phase them out completely in order for you to emotionally let them go? Are you a child with no agency?

 Galef wrote:
The longer it takes for them to do this, the more if makes me think "Old Marines" will still be around for some unti types.
For example, Bikes, Landspeeders, Devs and even Tacticals could be present in the rules well into the next few editions. Units like Scouts, regular Dreads and a handful of characters could be dropped.

But I'm starting to doubt that ALL old Marines are going to be dropped entirely

-

I've been saying for awhile now that GW'd be foolish to squat old marines when instead they can double dip.

Classic marines will be relocated to Horus Heresy entirely someday. Mk7 afaik was introduced in siege of Terra so all marks except 8 will be playable there and not out of place.

The rules have also been a middle finger to BA. But im supposed to be upset with primaris?

The doom gloom sucks. They aren't going to squat classic marines for a while, if ever. Why would they? They can produce the kits cheap. They are basically the back of the line in terms of needing or getting resculpts. They are a complete army, with a full range, that people still buy.

Primaris brought me back to the game, so not everyone hates them. I can understand why classic marine players would be put off by them but I think some of the responses are a bit over the top. No one is taking classic marines away, and they are getting a full update with the codex as well with all the new rules updates. You still have access to one of the most complete, model rich, armies in the game, with all the new buffs and rules.

You can still play with Rogue Trader models, Terminators on 25mm Bases or 3rd Edition Dark Eldar even though the latter are the worst minis GW ever sold and every player should have replaced them in 5th Edition . Nobody will stop you. If you don't want to buy Primaris then simply don't and continue playing with your existing Marines. You'll have less problems in any GW or tournament than I have since about 60% of my CSM have third party Bits on them....

GW cant get a break.

No new models-whaaa I want new toys
New primaris line-whaaa they are phasing out my old models
Keeping the old line active while releasing new stuff-whaaa why can't they just kill the old line.

No fething pleasing people.