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My friend had delivery of both the new Codex and ultramarine supplement today. So, the stand out things for him were as follows:
1. Ultramarine doctrine counts all units that have moved but not advanced or fallback moves count as they have not moved. This means free PotMS to all vehicles, constant max range rapid fire shots and continuous double tapping agressors.
Not quite. You have to be in tactical Doctrine - and the constant rapid fire max range doesn't apply to vehicles.
2. For 1CP an ultramarine unit that fell back can ignore the -1 to hit, and be allowed to charge in the charge phase. Confirmed that units with the fly keyword don't suffer the -1 to hit (unless a heavy weapon or it has PotMS) so the strat is really infantry focused, especially with shock assault.
How did you confirm this? I think you're talking about Fall Back and Re-Engage - which is a 1/2 CP strat and doesn't mention Heavy or POTMS.
3. The Psychic power scryers gaze allows you to automatically gain 1CP a turn, or allow a single ultramarine model in a unit to reroll one hit, wound and armour save a turn. Like Victor of the blood games, but can be used on a Sargent of a intercessor squad carrying a thunder hammer for example...
I'm pretty sure it allows one unit or model - it's (surprise surprise) worded poorly but I now lean towards model, to reroll all their hits, OR all their Wounds, OR all their Damage - because it says or not and - and it's the roll not "a". You roll all the hits together so the hit roll is all of them?
Sterling191 wrote: It’s not remotely a blanket guide/doom. All rolls are done individually, even when you fast roll. It’s a single reroll.
Ugh, I had to go through three different books finally to look up the shooting phase saying Heavy 6 is 6 attacks, and a psychic power that uses the word unit twice is about AN attack from A model. At this point 9 times out of 10 or better, I'd rather have the CP. The only thing this gives you can't get reasonably close with Calgar/LT is rerolling the damage roll. So it's pretty much limited to a high random damage shot - Lascannon, Heavy Laser Destroyer (some decent potential there- as it can't get any worse - of course, it can't get much better so take the CP.) and the like.
While the CP is likely more versatile, remember the reroll is one you can use in addition to the CP reroll. Decent pick of you want to line up a shot that has to go through.
I'm just really sad that Crusader Squads cost more than tactical squads, whilst being locked into a meme tier chapter tactic. Maybe they'll get a nifty Super Doctrine when the 'Sons of Dorn' book comes out. Maybe. Maaaybe... probably not.
Sterling191 wrote: While the CP is likely more versatile, remember the reroll is one you can use in addition to the CP reroll. Decent pick of you want to line up a shot that has to go through.
Between Chapter Masters and Lieutenants, you’re already rerolling hits and wounds. Use the command reroll on the damage, regen the CP through a chapter trait and bank an extra.
My friend had delivery of both the new Codex and ultramarine supplement today. So, the stand out things for him were as follows:
1. Ultramarine doctrine counts all units that have moved but not advanced or fallback moves count as they have not moved. This means free PotMS to all vehicles, constant max range rapid fire shots and continuous double tapping agressors.
Not quite. You have to be in tactical Doctrine - and the constant rapid fire max range doesn't apply to vehicles.
2. For 1CP an ultramarine unit that fell back can ignore the -1 to hit, and be allowed to charge in the charge phase. Confirmed that units with the fly keyword don't suffer the -1 to hit (unless a heavy weapon or it has PotMS) so the strat is really infantry focused, especially with shock assault.
How did you confirm this? I think you're talking about Fall Back and Re-Engage - which is a 1/2 CP strat and doesn't mention Heavy or POTMS.
1) UMs have both a Warlord Trait and a Strat that let you pick a unit and assign it a Doctrine for the turn. Using both to get a couple of critical units into Tactical Doctrine turn one feels like it might be a waste of resources though.
2) This was confirmed in a sidebar in one of those two codexes. Don't have it handy for a page reference.
A few things I noticed on my read through that were different from one preview or another:
The Whirlwind / Thunderer strat specifies that it works on an Indirect Fire weapon, not that it works on a target you don't have LoS to. It also doesn't say anything about shooting the same target.
The "go back to a previous doctrine" strat is once per game. The UM "go from Assault to Devastator" strat is not.
The Inflitrator's comm unit only works with Phobos characters.
The Phobos Captain's sniper rifle is Assault 1. Pretty sure it was a Heavy 1 before.
Phobos Lieutenant picked up the new dual knife and can now be a Reiver if he's armed correctly. Not sure why you would, but it's an option...
Iirc Hunters and Stalkers got a strat to reroll to-hit and to-wound when shooting Aircraft. If I'm remembering that wrong and it said Flyers then it's a lot better.
Assault Centurions got cheaper, Devastator Centurions did not. The Centurion Missile Launcher got cheaper though.
Tacs and Assault Marines gor cheaper, Devastator Marines did not. ...I need to check, but I think Jump Packs might have gone back up.
Autobolters being Assault 3 is just what they needed, but they're still 1 point so they're still wrong.
Auxiliary Grenade Launchers are 1 point again.
Base Reivers are now cheaper that Intercessors.
The Assault and Rapid Fire Plasma Incinerators are both 15 points now. The heavy is still 17 for no good reason.
The Icarus pod went up to D2, so that's a bonus for Redemptors.
I thought it was amusing that they wasted the ink reprinting Champions of Humanity since it has done literally nothing since ObSec was introduced.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/08/17 15:29:32
The Phobos Captain's Master-Crafted Instigator Bolt Carbine never made sense as Heavy. It's a MC version of what the Eliminator Sergeants can take(except worse, kinda, because the Eliminator version lets the squad Overwatch and retreat while the Captain's does not).
Sterling191 wrote: While the CP is likely more versatile, remember the reroll is one you can use in addition to the CP reroll. Decent pick of you want to line up a shot that has to go through.
it's a handy power to have in a list where every CP is dear.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Does anyone else find i weird that the Fists' bolter double hits on sixes trait is not selectable as custom trait? Usually half of the main tactics is selectable, but not so with IF and CF. There is 'Bolter Fusillade' but that's reroll of ones with bolters (strange in an army with captains.) Almost like this was originally what the IF and CF traits did but they changed it and forgot to change the custom trait...
I've noticed that some chapter traits from the first founders are avaliable but not all. although your guess might be right, not a big deal, least so far as I'm concerned. being able to re-roll 1s on bolt weapons is pretty powerful in and of itself used right (it means your basic bolter troopers don't need a captain around em)
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Played my first game with Ultra marines vs Custodes. It went surprisingly well. I got to go first. I took 2x batallions so I had 15 CP to start the game. Took an additional relic (seal of oath) so I picked a unit of jetbikers to reroll all hits and wounds. I also took a warlord trait to change a unit to tactical doctrine turn 1.
So I was able to move a 10 man intercessor in range to shoot 40 ap-2 reroll everything bolt guns into a 3 man jetbiker unit. That killed 2 bikes of that bat even in the -1 to hit banner and the prepared positions stratagem. It was insanely powerful in practice. Knights still going be getting wrecked by ultramarines.
Turn 2 I switched to tactical doctrine. Which was kind of underwelming but okay. I was able to move with all my redemptors which ended up slaying hard in CC turn 3. I can definately see how marines who benifit from devestator doctrine are going to be the best though - especially redemptors.
All I can say is the non guilliman build has gone up dramatically. I am really interesting in the iron hands to see what their super doctrine is going to be. We could be looking at a much improved overall space marine experience. Keep in mind I was playing against mono custodes which couldnt really kill my vheicals so my weakness couldn't really be exploited at all.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/17 23:38:42
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Xenomancers wrote: Played my first game with Ultra marines vs Custodes. It went surprisingly well. I got to go first. I took 2x batallions so I had 15 CP to start the game. Took an additional relic (seal of oath) so I picked a unit of jetbikers to reroll all hits and wounds. I also took a warlord trait to change a unit to tactical doctrine turn 1.
So I was able to move a 10 man intercessor in range to shoot 40 ap-2 reroll everything bolt guns into a 3 man jetbiker unit. That killed 2 bikes of that bat even in the -1 to hit banner and the prepared positions stratagem. It was insanely powerful in practice. Knights still going be getting wrecked by ultramarines.
Turn 2 I switched to tactical doctrine. Which was kind of underwelming but okay. I was able to move with all my redemptors which ended up slaying hard in CC turn 3. I can definately see how marines who benifit from devestator doctrine are going to be the best though - especially redemptors.
All I can say is the non guilliman build has gone up dramatically. I am really interesting in the iron hands to see what their super doctrine is going to be. We could be looking at a much improved overall space marine experience. Keep in mind I was playing against mono custodes which couldnt really kill my vheicals so my weakness couldn't really be exploited at all.
Xenomancers wrote: Played my first game with Ultra marines vs Custodes. It went surprisingly well. I got to go first. I took 2x batallions so I had 15 CP to start the game. Took an additional relic (seal of oath) so I picked a unit of jetbikers to reroll all hits and wounds. I also took a warlord trait to change a unit to tactical doctrine turn 1.
So I was able to move a 10 man intercessor in range to shoot 40 ap-2 reroll everything bolt guns into a 3 man jetbiker unit. That killed 2 bikes of that bat even in the -1 to hit banner and the prepared positions stratagem. It was insanely powerful in practice. Knights still going be getting wrecked by ultramarines.
Turn 2 I switched to tactical doctrine. Which was kind of underwelming but okay. I was able to move with all my redemptors which ended up slaying hard in CC turn 3. I can definately see how marines who benifit from devestator doctrine are going to be the best though - especially redemptors.
All I can say is the non guilliman build has gone up dramatically. I am really interesting in the iron hands to see what their super doctrine is going to be. We could be looking at a much improved overall space marine experience. Keep in mind I was playing against mono custodes which couldnt really kill my vheicals so my weakness couldn't really be exploited at all.
So, wait a minute, are you saying you actually used the book after all the shouts of " Game over man, Game over ! " and found that it's better than you imagined, and while Gman may have been nerfed, the builds without him have gotten better ? I'm both shocked and amazed. It's almost like waiting to see how something works before freaking out might have some merit to it.
Turn 2 I switched to tactical doctrine. Which was kind of underwelming but okay. I was able to move with all my redemptors which ended up slaying hard in CC turn 3. I can definately see how marines who benifit from devestator doctrine are going to be the best though - especially redemptors.
Heavy is easily the weapon type that's going to benefit most from the doctrines - either being able to move and fire via Scions/Tactical, or the additional save mods in Dev Doctrine for the high volume low AP choices. 8-12 shots per model shows up on a lot of models with heavy weapons. 8-12 attacks shows up on very few models with CCW's - and then it's frequently already on a high APCCW on a beatstick character. I won't be surprised to see UM armies go to Assault Doctrine on Turn 5 or so, as I'll expect them to CP/Stratagem their way back to Dev on Turn 6 or so - without the stratagem I don't see any other army getting as far as Assault Doctrine. Even WS with their bikes are more likely to stay in tactical I think. Unless they also got a Doctrine cycle Stratagem.
There is a stealth buff to guilliman. He can now honor the chapter. He could not do that before. Makes him better at killing, say, a knight, when he needs to.
My friend had delivery of both the new Codex and ultramarine supplement today. So, the stand out things for him were as follows:
1. Ultramarine doctrine counts all units that have moved but not advanced or fallback moves count as they have not moved. This means free PotMS to all vehicles, constant max range rapid fire shots and continuous double tapping agressors.
Not quite. You have to be in tactical Doctrine - and the constant rapid fire max range doesn't apply to vehicles.
2. For 1CP an ultramarine unit that fell back can ignore the -1 to hit, and be allowed to charge in the charge phase. Confirmed that units with the fly keyword don't suffer the -1 to hit (unless a heavy weapon or it has PotMS) so the strat is really infantry focused, especially with shock assault.
How did you confirm this? I think you're talking about Fall Back and Re-Engage - which is a 1/2 CP strat and doesn't mention Heavy or POTMS.
1) UMs have both a Warlord Trait and a Strat that let you pick a unit and assign it a Doctrine for the turn. Using both to get a couple of critical units into Tactical Doctrine turn one feels like it might be a waste of resources though.
2) This was confirmed in a sidebar in one of those two codexes. Don't have it handy for a page reference.
A few things I noticed on my read through that were different from one preview or another:
The Whirlwind / Thunderer strat specifies that it works on an Indirect Fire weapon, not that it works on a target you don't have LoS to. It also doesn't say anything about shooting the same target.
The "go back to a previous doctrine" strat is once per game. The UM "go from Assault to Devastator" strat is not.
The Inflitrator's comm unit only works with Phobos characters.
The Phobos Captain's sniper rifle is Assault 1. Pretty sure it was a Heavy 1 before.
Phobos Lieutenant picked up the new dual knife and can now be a Reiver if he's armed correctly. Not sure why you would, but it's an option...
Iirc Hunters and Stalkers got a strat to reroll to-hit and to-wound when shooting Aircraft. If I'm remembering that wrong and it said Flyers then it's a lot better.
Assault Centurions got cheaper, Devastator Centurions did not. The Centurion Missile Launcher got cheaper though.
Tacs and Assault Marines gor cheaper, Devastator Marines did not. ...I need to check, but I think Jump Packs might have gone back up.
Autobolters being Assault 3 is just what they needed, but they're still 1 point so they're still wrong.
Auxiliary Grenade Launchers are 1 point again.
Base Reivers are now cheaper that Intercessors.
The Assault and Rapid Fire Plasma Incinerators are both 15 points now. The heavy is still 17 for no good reason.
The Icarus pod went up to D2, so that's a bonus for Redemptors.
I thought it was amusing that they wasted the ink reprinting Champions of Humanity since it has done literally nothing since ObSec was introduced.
Assault Marines w/ Jump Packs stayed the same price, 15 a pop. With the Born in the Saddle Strategem, there's a strong case for bikes. All they lose is fly, but for 8 more points you get an extra wound, an extra toughness, RF2 bolters instead of pistols (and if you are WS or UM why do you want pistols?), a bit more movement and access to more special weapons (Plasma Guns, hooo)
warboss wrote: Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
stratigo wrote: There is a stealth buff to guilliman. He can now honor the chapter. He could not do that before. Makes him better at killing, say, a knight, when he needs to.
stratigo wrote: There is a stealth buff to guilliman. He can now honor the chapter. He could not do that before. Makes him better at killing, say, a knight, when he needs to.
Only if taken in a Supreme command
stratigo is, I assume, refering to a stratigium. it's a SM fight twice strat.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
My friend had delivery of both the new Codex and ultramarine supplement today. So, the stand out things for him were as follows:
1. Ultramarine doctrine counts all units that have moved but not advanced or fallback moves count as they have not moved. This means free PotMS to all vehicles, constant max range rapid fire shots and continuous double tapping agressors.
Not quite. You have to be in tactical Doctrine - and the constant rapid fire max range doesn't apply to vehicles.
2. For 1CP an ultramarine unit that fell back can ignore the -1 to hit, and be allowed to charge in the charge phase. Confirmed that units with the fly keyword don't suffer the -1 to hit (unless a heavy weapon or it has PotMS) so the strat is really infantry focused, especially with shock assault.
How did you confirm this? I think you're talking about Fall Back and Re-Engage - which is a 1/2 CP strat and doesn't mention Heavy or POTMS.
1) UMs have both a Warlord Trait and a Strat that let you pick a unit and assign it a Doctrine for the turn. Using both to get a couple of critical units into Tactical Doctrine turn one feels like it might be a waste of resources though.
2) This was confirmed in a sidebar in one of those two codexes. Don't have it handy for a page reference.
A few things I noticed on my read through that were different from one preview or another:
The Whirlwind / Thunderer strat specifies that it works on an Indirect Fire weapon, not that it works on a target you don't have LoS to. It also doesn't say anything about shooting the same target.
The "go back to a previous doctrine" strat is once per game. The UM "go from Assault to Devastator" strat is not.
The Inflitrator's comm unit only works with Phobos characters.
The Phobos Captain's sniper rifle is Assault 1. Pretty sure it was a Heavy 1 before.
Phobos Lieutenant picked up the new dual knife and can now be a Reiver if he's armed correctly. Not sure why you would, but it's an option...
Iirc Hunters and Stalkers got a strat to reroll to-hit and to-wound when shooting Aircraft. If I'm remembering that wrong and it said Flyers then it's a lot better.
Assault Centurions got cheaper, Devastator Centurions did not. The Centurion Missile Launcher got cheaper though.
Tacs and Assault Marines gor cheaper, Devastator Marines did not. ...I need to check, but I think Jump Packs might have gone back up.
Autobolters being Assault 3 is just what they needed, but they're still 1 point so they're still wrong.
Auxiliary Grenade Launchers are 1 point again.
Base Reivers are now cheaper that Intercessors.
The Assault and Rapid Fire Plasma Incinerators are both 15 points now. The heavy is still 17 for no good reason.
The Icarus pod went up to D2, so that's a bonus for Redemptors.
I thought it was amusing that they wasted the ink reprinting Champions of Humanity since it has done literally nothing since ObSec was introduced.
Assault Marines w/ Jump Packs stayed the same price, 15 a pop. With the Born in the Saddle Strategem, there's a strong case for bikes. All they lose is fly, but for 8 more points you get an extra wound, an extra toughness, RF2 bolters instead of pistols (and if you are WS or UM why do you want pistols?), a bit more movement and access to more special weapons (Plasma Guns, hooo)
So Assault Marines did get cheaper if you wanted to put them in a transport for some reason.
Confirmed that the Hunter/Stalker strat just specifies models with Fly, but it's +1 to hit, +1 to wound, and double damage. That's kind of silly for a single cp.
Xenomancers wrote: Played my first game with Ultra marines vs Custodes. It went surprisingly well. I got to go first. I took 2x batallions so I had 15 CP to start the game. Took an additional relic (seal of oath) so I picked a unit of jetbikers to reroll all hits and wounds. I also took a warlord trait to change a unit to tactical doctrine turn 1.
So I was able to move a 10 man intercessor in range to shoot 40 ap-2 reroll everything bolt guns into a 3 man jetbiker unit. That killed 2 bikes of that bat even in the -1 to hit banner and the prepared positions stratagem. It was insanely powerful in practice. Knights still going be getting wrecked by ultramarines.
Turn 2 I switched to tactical doctrine. Which was kind of underwelming but okay. I was able to move with all my redemptors which ended up slaying hard in CC turn 3. I can definately see how marines who benifit from devestator doctrine are going to be the best though - especially redemptors.
All I can say is the non guilliman build has gone up dramatically. I am really interesting in the iron hands to see what their super doctrine is going to be. We could be looking at a much improved overall space marine experience. Keep in mind I was playing against mono custodes which couldnt really kill my vheicals so my weakness couldn't really be exploited at all.
So, wait a minute, are you saying you actually used the book after all the shouts of " Game over man, Game over ! " and found that it's better than you imagined, and while Gman may have been nerfed, the builds without him have gotten better ? I'm both shocked and amazed. It's almost like waiting to see how something works before freaking out might have some merit to it.
To be fair I didn't have the complete picture and the reviews were pretty terrible as they didn't go into a lot of detail. The biggest upgrade to the codex even with all the bonus rules they got are the stratagem. I mean holy gak there are a lot of stratagems and a lot of them are really good.
Ultramarines in particular are going to be amazing with all their CP generation. Calgar gives you 2 for free and regens on a 5+ so youll likely get one back every turn with that and tiggy with a +1 to cast and a reroll is good for a CP per turn as well with the scryrs gaze spell (which also has a really nice alternate mode which gives you 3 rerolls for a unit of your choice as well). Also without Gman ina list double batallion is in the mix - though I can't really figure out a way to make a brigade work because taking 3 fast attacks (with options you want to take) puts you well over the mark. You can do it - it's just not going to be an ideal list. 2 Batallions allows you to punt the on the units you don't want to take and with clagar and 2 batallions you start with 15 CP. That is a nice amount of CP considering you are going to be getting 1-2 more a turn. Ultramarines have really good stratagems to. The hands down best being the overwatch stratagem which allows you to overwatch with 3 additional units as if they were the target of the charge. This allows you to move up in formation being buffed by all your characters and get into the middle of the board. Even a 3 man custodes biker unit opted not to take a 9 inch charge against me because it just wasn't worth the risk for a long shot.
The ability to take additional warlord traits is fantatic as well because there are a lot of key build defining stratagames as a warlord trait. Like the ability to change to tactic doctrine for 1 unit - very nice. Unhappy about the vet intercessors nerf - I don't think that will be utilized much anymore. However for an additional relic an ultramarine character can give out a 6" +1 attack bubble....1 CP for multiple units to get +1 attack...Okay...GW must really think leadership matters in this game...It does not. You could however make an absolutely crazy melle intercessor army with this build. You'd drop a ton of CP on it but you can have 4 attack intercessors with +1 str from a chaplain dread with vets plus the 6" aura for +1 attack. I don't think it's viable but you could do it. Overall it is exciting to have new builds and have actual stratagems to use. I'll try taking ultras to an ITC and see how it goes in a few weeks. Facing top teir armies might be a completely different experience than facing mono custodies.
EDIT
It's actually more silly. Ultramarines banner also gives +1 attack
So this is pretty funny but you can actually get 20 attacks out of gman in a turn.
7 attacks if he charges
8 for the banner
9 for might of heros
10 for the relic aura.
20 if he fights twice for 3 CP....
Uhhh...what? that could easily kill 2 knights.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/18 16:28:09
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
My friend had delivery of both the new Codex and ultramarine supplement today. So, the stand out things for him were as follows:
1. Ultramarine doctrine counts all units that have moved but not advanced or fallback moves count as they have not moved. This means free PotMS to all vehicles, constant max range rapid fire shots and continuous double tapping agressors.
Not quite. You have to be in tactical Doctrine - and the constant rapid fire max range doesn't apply to vehicles.
2. For 1CP an ultramarine unit that fell back can ignore the -1 to hit, and be allowed to charge in the charge phase. Confirmed that units with the fly keyword don't suffer the -1 to hit (unless a heavy weapon or it has PotMS) so the strat is really infantry focused, especially with shock assault.
How did you confirm this? I think you're talking about Fall Back and Re-Engage - which is a 1/2 CP strat and doesn't mention Heavy or POTMS.
1) UMs have both a Warlord Trait and a Strat that let you pick a unit and assign it a Doctrine for the turn. Using both to get a couple of critical units into Tactical Doctrine turn one feels like it might be a waste of resources though.
2) This was confirmed in a sidebar in one of those two codexes. Don't have it handy for a page reference.
A few things I noticed on my read through that were different from one preview or another:
The Whirlwind / Thunderer strat specifies that it works on an Indirect Fire weapon, not that it works on a target you don't have LoS to. It also doesn't say anything about shooting the same target.
The "go back to a previous doctrine" strat is once per game. The UM "go from Assault to Devastator" strat is not.
The Inflitrator's comm unit only works with Phobos characters.
The Phobos Captain's sniper rifle is Assault 1. Pretty sure it was a Heavy 1 before.
Phobos Lieutenant picked up the new dual knife and can now be a Reiver if he's armed correctly. Not sure why you would, but it's an option...
Iirc Hunters and Stalkers got a strat to reroll to-hit and to-wound when shooting Aircraft. If I'm remembering that wrong and it said Flyers then it's a lot better.
Assault Centurions got cheaper, Devastator Centurions did not. The Centurion Missile Launcher got cheaper though.
Tacs and Assault Marines gor cheaper, Devastator Marines did not. ...I need to check, but I think Jump Packs might have gone back up.
Autobolters being Assault 3 is just what they needed, but they're still 1 point so they're still wrong.
Auxiliary Grenade Launchers are 1 point again.
Base Reivers are now cheaper that Intercessors.
The Assault and Rapid Fire Plasma Incinerators are both 15 points now. The heavy is still 17 for no good reason.
The Icarus pod went up to D2, so that's a bonus for Redemptors.
I thought it was amusing that they wasted the ink reprinting Champions of Humanity since it has done literally nothing since ObSec was introduced.
Assault Marines w/ Jump Packs stayed the same price, 15 a pop. With the Born in the Saddle Strategem, there's a strong case for bikes. All they lose is fly, but for 8 more points you get an extra wound, an extra toughness, RF2 bolters instead of pistols (and if you are WS or UM why do you want pistols?), a bit more movement and access to more special weapons (Plasma Guns, hooo)
So Assault Marines did get cheaper if you wanted to put them in a transport for some reason.
Confirmed that the Hunter/Stalker strat just specifies models with Fly, but it's +1 to hit, +1 to wound, and double damage. That's kind of silly for a single cp.
Sooooooo the 3" to range weapons and the +1 to charge out of a Drop Pod? Not good but there ya go.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Yep - always better to reserve judgement and not get upset about respulor nerf which honestly isn't going to matter much.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also guys I Just looked thorugh the whole codex and found a nice little bonus. You can take a terminator ancient now - and hes got a power fist and storm bolter. So you get a 5++ invo and 2+ save for those pesk snipers. Getting a little melle out of your ancient is a plus - typically he wants to be on the front line and charges anyways to be where he needs to be. Now he can be better protected and do something - kinda pricey at 98 points if my math is right in my head. If you've got the points to spare not to terrible of an idea.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/08/18 16:49:05
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Xenomancers wrote: The biggest upgrade to the codex even with all the bonus rules they got are the stratagem. I mean holy gak there are a lot of stratagems and a lot of them are really good.
Ultramarines in particular are going to be amazing with all their CP generation.
I fething said this! I said the Ultras were good for this reason! Having a ton of CP is a huge benefit for marines now But noo! "Muh glorious primarch is nerfed, woe is me, all is ruined!"
Xenomancers wrote: The biggest upgrade to the codex even with all the bonus rules they got are the stratagem. I mean holy gak there are a lot of stratagems and a lot of them are really good.
Ultramarines in particular are going to be amazing with all their CP generation.
I fething said this! I said the Ultras were good for this reason! Having a ton of CP is a huge benefit for marines now But noo! "Muh glorious primarch is nerfed, woe is me, all is ruined!"
I hate to break it to you. He is actually buffed as a fighter. Hit him with MOH and he goes to str 9 with the sword which will wound on 3's and he still rerolls 1. The power of the sword though is rolling 6's to wound. D3 mortals each time. So additional attacks really make his beastly. Now that he can fight twice for 3 cp...he going to kill twice as much and maybe more because of other +1 attack abilities. I am having fun not including him in lists right now but holy crap. 20 Gman attacks isn't even fair dude.
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godardc wrote: Would you say Hunter / stalker are worth taking now ? My main opponent love to play his twin flyrants...
Yeah absolutely - stalker. They have always been a pretty good choice. Throw chronus into one for some SNG's. Pop the stratagem and 1 shot the flyer even on the move. You are also ap-2 in devastator doctrine as well. So even if he has cover hes only getting a 4+ save. A hunter is probably the best use of the ultramarine auto hitting ability too. Scryers gaze gives you a reroll wound and damage result too. If he fails a save and you roll a 6 (2 chances) hes 1 shot.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/08/18 17:08:47
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Xenomancers wrote: hate to break it to you. He is actually buffed as a fighter. Hit him with MOH and he goes to str 9 with the sword which will wound on 3's and he still rerolls 1. The power of the sword though is rolling 6's to wound. D3 mortals each time. So additional attacks really make his beastly. Now that he can fight twice for 3 cp...he going to kill twice as much and maybe more because of other +1 attack abilities. I am having fun not including him in lists right now but holy crap. 20 Gman attacks isn't even fair dude.
JFC! Almost like all that wailing and gnashing of teeth and crying about your nerfed primarch for who knows how many pages was completely baseless! I really wish this would teach you some self awareness but I'm not exactly holding my breath here.
