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They're the cheapest way to get mobile heavy bolters on the table for Marines though. 65 points gets you two (HBs). Even if they're just parked backfield on an objective and hosing down the board, thats pretty damn efficient.

Sterling191 wrote:
They're the cheapest way to get mobile heavy bolters on the table for Marines though. 65 points gets you two (HBs). Even if they're just parked backfield on an objective and hosing down the board, thats pretty damn efficient.

Douple HB is an index option though, and GW not including the Index in the new marine errata makes it clear those options are going away sooner rather than later.

Also, a bolter Inceptor is 41 points. You can get three of them for less than two bolter speeders.

 Crimson wrote:

Douple HB is an index option though, and GW not including the Index in the new marine errata makes it clear those options are going away sooner rather than later.

Also, a bolter Inceptor is 41 points. You can get three of them for less than two bolter speeders.

Until the Index is officially killed, its a valid option. And folks have been making the "INDEX IS DOOOOOOOOOMED" song and dance for going on two years now.

Inceptors are a minimum of 123 points per squad, and require being in suicide range to do their work. Speeders dont do either of those.

I'm not remotely saying Speeders are amazing, but they have a role to play at their current price point.

Sterling191 wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

Douple HB is an index option though, and GW not including the Index in the new marine errata makes it clear those options are going away sooner rather than later.

Also, a bolter Inceptor is 41 points. You can get three of them for less than two bolter speeders.

Until the Index is officially killed, its a valid option. And folks have been making the "INDEX IS DOOOOOOOOOMED" song and dance for going on two years now.

Inceptors are a minimum of 123 points per squad, and require being in suicide range to do their work. Speeders dont do either of those.

I'm not remotely saying Speeders are amazing, but they have a role to play at their current price point.

If you want to give up doctrines for your whole army just to include a index unit go ahead I'm not doing so.

 Crimson wrote:
If I could get eight quid Land Speeders I certainly would try to find an use for them.

It's kinda tricky though. They're fragile, don't have many weapons, and if you take the best ones cost goes up pretty dramatically.

They can be expensive but it is worth it. If you compare:

* Attack Bike with a Multi-Melta and the BikesTwin-Bolters
- M14, S4, T5, 4W, 2A, LD7

* Land Speeder Tornado w/Assault Cannon, Hvy. Bolter
- M16, S4, T5, 6W, 2A, LD7 (M20 if it's a Squadron of 3x)

Basically for far better Weapon Options, better Movement, more Wounds, and for being able to FLY as well, this Land Speeder Tornado build is only 28 points more expensive, has more options, and is far more flexible than an Attack Bike equipped as listed above.

Ice_can wrote:

If you want to give up doctrines for your whole army just to include a index unit go ahead I'm not doing so.

It's a Codex datasheet using an Index wargear option. It doesnt break doctrines.

 Crimson wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:
They're the cheapest way to get mobile heavy bolters on the table for Marines though. 65 points gets you two (HBs). Even if they're just parked backfield on an objective and hosing down the board, thats pretty damn efficient.

Douple HB is an index option though, and GW not including the Index in the new marine errata makes it clear those options are going away sooner rather than later.

Also, a bolter Inceptor is 41 points. You can get three of them for less than two bolter speeders.

Attack Bikes aren't cheaper per Heavy Bolter (37 points each) but they're cheaper per wound and come with a storm bolter and Stable Platform, and in a WS list they can fire without penalty on the move for free.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ironwolf45 wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
If I could get eight quid Land Speeders I certainly would try to find an use for them.

It's kinda tricky though. They're fragile, don't have many weapons, and if you take the best ones cost goes up pretty dramatically.

They can be expensive but it is worth it. If you compare:

* Attack Bike with a Multi-Melta and the BikesTwin-Bolters
- M14, S4, T5, 4W, 2A, LD7

* Land Speeder Tornado w/Assault Cannon, Hvy. Bolter
- M16, S4, T5, 6W, 2A, LD7 (M20 if it's a Squadron of 3x)

Basically for far better Weapon Options, better Movement, more Wounds, and for being able to FLY as well, this Land Speeder Tornado build is only 28 points more expensive, has more options, and is far more flexible than an Attack Bike equipped as listed above.

That's cherry picking more than a little though, either you should be comparing the Attack Bike as armed to the Multimelta/Heavy Bolter Land Speeder (similar damage output) or comparing the Assault Cannon/Heavy Bolter Land Speeder to the Heavy Bolter Attack Bike (40 points cheaper).

My son plays Salamanders and I just so happen to have a Salamander painted Landspeeder in my collection. Given that LS got cheaper and Chapter tatcits now extend to them, it may be worth it to add a MM/Heavy Flamer to his list.
81pts for 6W that can move up 16" to get in optimum Flaming/Melta range, auto hit with the flamer and use the Reroll 1 hit/wound for the MM.
Nothing game-altering, but it's a decent option and very much fits Salamanders theme of burnating.

-

You can do all sorts of things with cheap land speeders... this is a Storm version, rather than the Comquest one, but something similar will be happening just as soon as I get my house back

Why take a landspeeder when you can take an impuslor. For the cost you get about the same firepower but double the wounds and a toughness upgrade plus a huge super transport rule. LS are garbage. With rockets and HB they should cost like 70 points and ignore penalties for moving and shooting heavies.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Why take a landspeeder when you can take an impuslor. For the cost you get about the same firepower but double the wounds and a toughness upgrade plus a huge super transport rule. LS are garbage. With rockets and HB they should cost like 70 points and ignore penalties for moving and shooting heavies.

A naked Impulsor is 79 points and packs a whopping....two storm bolters. Not even a close comparison.

Landspeeder are not going to get cheaper than they are as ravenwing landspeeders are already fairly cheap for what they bring to the table the issue is every other marine is paying the same points for not the same rules. It's the old Guilliman arguments but in a different direction where GW will price a unit for it's most efficient way to be run not by the worst otherwise you end up with even more broken unit's than we already have.

Ice_can wrote:
Landspeeder are not going to get cheaper than they are as ravenwing landspeeders are already fairly cheap for what they bring to the table the issue is every other marine is paying the same points for not the same rules. It's the old Guilliman arguments but in a different direction where GW will price a unit for it's most efficient way to be run not by the worst otherwise you end up with even more broken unit's than we already have.

Ravenwing Speeders didnt get the point reduction that vanilla Speeders got in SM 2.0. They're already priced differently.

Sterling191 wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
Landspeeder are not going to get cheaper than they are as ravenwing landspeeders are already fairly cheap for what they bring to the table the issue is every other marine is paying the same points for not the same rules. It's the old Guilliman arguments but in a different direction where GW will price a unit for it's most efficient way to be run not by the worst otherwise you end up with even more broken unit's than we already have.

Ravenwing Speeders didnt get the point reduction that vanilla Speeders got in SM 2.0. They're already priced differently.

I'll believe they are going to do that intentionally when CA 2019 comes out and doesn't change the ravenwing speeders to match the marine codex, until then I'm holding my judgement that GW is changing the way they price marine's wargear as 40 point thunderhammers are crazy without the buffs to make your CC damage insane.

Sterling191 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Why take a landspeeder when you can take an impuslor. For the cost you get about the same firepower but double the wounds and a toughness upgrade plus a huge super transport rule. LS are garbage. With rockets and HB they should cost like 70 points and ignore penalties for moving and shooting heavies.

A naked Impulsor is 79 points and packs a whopping....two storm bolters. Not even a close comparison.

Impuslor can have 9 stubber shots and 8 storm bolter shots. For under 100 points. Twice the durability. d6 explosion. Transport capacity. LS is inferior to this utility vehicle by every possible metric.

By all means, shoot the BS 5+ skytalon at ground targets while on the move and declare yourself superior.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Impuslor can have 9 stubber shots and 8 storm bolter shots. For under 100 points. Twice the durability. d6 explosion. Transport capacity. LS is inferior to this utility vehicle by every possible metric.

You're gonna put the AA stubbers on your Impulsor? It's a terrible weapon. And I'm not talking about the mere looks.

 Crimson wrote:

You're gonna put the AA stubbers on your Impulsor? It's a terrible weapon. And I'm not talking about the mere looks.

Its a decent gun that scares the pants off jump-infantry and other small/medium weight FLY keyworded units for a minor cost (seriously, the +1 to hit and wound is spicy as hell), but being mutually exclusive with the shield, orbital array and missiles makes it a non-starter. If you could take it in place of the Ironhail it'd be an auto-include.

This seems to be a theme with all things Primaris. The Repulsor is at a kind of half-way point between the basic Land Raider and the Crusader, the Executioner is kind of nailing an all-Lascannon Predator to most of a Crusader, and so on. The Impulsor seems to be trying to cover the Land Speeder, Stalker, and Razorback. Not necessarily very well, but if you've got an all-Primaris collection then at least you're getting several half-tank roles all at once.

Also, the Skytalon Array is pretty good for it's points if your meta favors it. It never wounds on less than a 5 against it's preferred targets and it's a good number of shots. It would probably be a contender if the Bellicose Missile Launcher didn't have a better AA gun for only 10 more points.