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2019/08/24 00:12:07
Subject: + Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
UM Seal of Oath Relic is crazy good. It's old school Guilliman rerolls aura against one target nominated at the start of the battle. I can't believe that's right. Maybe they meant CC attacks?
Because otherwise, three units of Grav Devastators can one-shot a Castellan, which is nuts.
Yeah, leviathans seem awsome. My issue is i dont run forgeworld. Just a personal choice really. Sometimes i put a ven dred in. Other times i drop some bikes and put supressors in. Once i just put more tacticals in drop pods in, as many as i could fit. Fun times lol.
However i agree i always find my anti infantry options always end up with no targets after t3 and i am shooting bolters and tanks..... but there is something terrific about killing tanks with mass bolter fire lol
2019/08/24 06:47:26
Subject: + Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
Insectum7 wrote: UM Seal of Oath Relic is crazy good. It's old school Guilliman rerolls aura against one target nominated at the start of the battle. I can't believe that's right. Maybe they meant CC attacks?
Because otherwise, three units of Grav Devastators can one-shot a Castellan, which is nuts.
Yes. This is the point. To punish, essentially, knights. And knights deserve the punishment
2019/08/24 06:51:53
Subject: Re:+ Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
Oof, despite those nice new cheap units, the points still go fast. I finally got my codex and made a first cut of a 2000pt UM brigade list idea and didn't get to several of the units I hoped. Obviously the best way to fit more in is drop the expensive FW dreads, but then it leaves the Invictors with no cover nor covering for any vehicles either:
Devastator Squad [6 PL, 150pts]: Armorium Cherub
. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Grav-cannon and grav-amp . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Grav-cannon and grav-amp . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Grav-cannon and grav-amp . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Grav-cannon and grav-amp
T6 isn't the issue with invictors. The issue is that they will have a high skill requirement. Top tier players will be deadly with them and I expect them to he in a lot of top lists.
That being said it's also really easy for an opponent to outplay invictors. If the other guy is a better player then going Leroy Jenkins with 3 invictors is a fast path to defeat
Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but refuse. They cling to the realm, or love, or the gods…illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is, but they’ll never know this. Not until it’s too late.
2019/08/24 12:31:09
Subject: + Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
Was looking at the UM book and noticed that Chronos give his tank the <Character> keyword. Was thinking about the implications of that. The first was the ability of honour guard to soak wounds for him. The second was Land Raiders clicking off “Only in Death Does Duty End” followed by “Vengeance of the Machine Spirit” in an impressive death blossom. Any other fun tricks?
Huh, the Redemptor's anti-air missile thing (the Icarus rocket pod) got a subtle buff in that it's now damage 2 instead of 1. Small but significant if you ran them with one anyway. So fun to track down all these little changes.
2019/08/24 14:47:01
Subject: + Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
GreatGranpapy wrote: Huh, the Redemptor's anti-air missile thing (the Icarus rocket pod) got a subtle buff in that it's now damage 2 instead of 1. Small but significant if you ran them with one anyway. So fun to track down all these little changes.
Both Repulsors can take it too, and this change makes it much better. Now it might actually meaningfully contribute to killing flyers. (Unlike the stupid AA stubbers...)
So I've finished, I guess, my orbital strike themed list.
I wanna try the doctrines at least once but i think I'll just play an assassin in this list later on, I think it will contribute more and be on point with the theme and the tactics.
Master artisan is really useful with the MSU plasma units and characters, making the list less depending of bubbles, and hungry for battles helps getting the charges off with vv and after deep striking.
Still, I need to drop the terminators close to the apothecary and chapelain to benefit from theirs buffs T2.
Tactical Squad [5 PL, 82pts] . 3x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Combi-plasma
. Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun
Tactical Squad [5 PL, 82pts] . 3x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Combi-plasma
. Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun
Tactical Squad [5 PL, 82pts] . 3x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Combi-plasma
. Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun
+ Elites +
Apothecary [3 PL, 50pts]
Sternguard Veteran Squad [14 PL, 126pts] . Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Veteran Sergeant . . Special Issue Boltgun/Bolt Pistol
Terminator Squad [24 PL, 219pts]: Teleport Homer
. Terminator Sergeant: Power sword, Storm bolter
. Terminator w/Heavy Weapon: Assault cannon, Power fist
. 4x Terminator w/PF: 4x Power fist, 4x Storm bolter
Yeah the Icarus pod has definitely become a good use of 6 points. Devastator doctrine helps too. Previously I left them off because they just slowed the game down without hurting anything. Now they’re a vague threat, especially if you’re spamming repulsors.
2019/08/24 17:29:45
Subject: + Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
Which is the "better" quad lascannon user - relic Contemptor with two twin lascannon arms or a quad Las Pred?
My money is on the Contemptor, as for 15pts more you get a 5++/6+++ and 2+ BS skill. Any other vehicle anti armour options one can take in a marine list that pumps out a similar volume of wounds?
40k: Thousand Sons World Eaters
30k: Imperial Fists 405th Company
2019/08/24 17:34:32
Subject: + Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
Insectum7 wrote: UM Seal of Oath Relic is crazy good. It's old school Guilliman rerolls aura against one target nominated at the start of the battle. I can't believe that's right. Maybe they meant CC attacks?
Because otherwise, three units of Grav Devastators can one-shot a Castellan, which is nuts.
It's basically the old grudges warlord trait. Because you are likely going to have reroll all hits anyways. It is totally fair.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/24 17:50:36
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2019/08/24 18:09:53
Subject: + Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
GreatGranpapy wrote: Huh, the Redemptor's anti-air missile thing (the Icarus rocket pod) got a subtle buff in that it's now damage 2 instead of 1. Small but significant if you ran them with one anyway. So fun to track down all these little changes.
Both Repulsors can take it too, and this change makes it much better. Now it might actually meaningfully contribute to killing flyers. (Unlike the stupid AA stubbers...)
I just take a stormbolter on my repulsor instead of an AA stubber.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
2019/08/24 18:41:40
Subject: + Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
Dr. Mills wrote: Which is the "better" quad lascannon user - relic Contemptor with two twin lascannon arms or a quad Las Pred?
My money is on the Contemptor, as for 15pts more you get a 5++/6+++ and 2+ BS skill. Any other vehicle anti armour options one can take in a marine list that pumps out a similar volume of wounds?
Contemptor also has a strat that let's it take half damage for a turn
Where is your saviour now?
"War is an act of force, and there are no limitations to the application of that force" - Clausewitz
2019/08/24 19:09:39
Subject: + Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
GreatGranpapy wrote: Huh, the Redemptor's anti-air missile thing (the Icarus rocket pod) got a subtle buff in that it's now damage 2 instead of 1. Small but significant if you ran them with one anyway. So fun to track down all these little changes.
Both Repulsors can take it too, and this change makes it much better. Now it might actually meaningfully contribute to killing flyers. (Unlike the stupid AA stubbers...)
I just take a stormbolter on my repulsor instead of an AA stubber.
Executioner cannot do that though, it is stuck with dual AA stubber. And the regular one can get the AA missiles instead, and those are now decent.
Well have to say I was very impressed with the codex.
Finally having strategums worth playing made me start with double battalion.
Still not a massive fan of scouts to be honest primaris and tac marines did good work and grav cannons dev cents did a good number on guard tanks. An apocathory will be good if I can find the points.
Dreadnaughts still good, tacs are way better, intercessors are improved, Calgar improved, Smash chaplin was rediculous, really needs a way to shutdown overwatch though.
2019/08/24 20:23:53
Subject: Re:+ Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
Dreadnaughts still good, tacs are way better, intercessors are improved, Calgar improved, Smash chaplin was rediculous, really needs a way to shutdown overwatch though.
Suppressors might work for that. Really good with smurfs too being able to move and shoot without penalty after turn 1
Where is your saviour now?
"War is an act of force, and there are no limitations to the application of that force" - Clausewitz
2019/08/24 23:18:12
Subject: + Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
Insectum7 wrote: UM Seal of Oath Relic is crazy good. It's old school Guilliman rerolls aura against one target nominated at the start of the battle. I can't believe that's right. Maybe they meant CC attacks?
Because otherwise, three units of Grav Devastators can one-shot a Castellan, which is nuts.
It's basically the old grudges warlord trait. Because you are likely going to have reroll all hits anyways. It is totally fair.
If I’m mathammering correctly, I think the new Ravenguard Chapter Tactic is actually mathematically better than the old one. +1 to armor saves results in about a third of a wound less than -1 on average, unless I’m missing something.
Also this means RG infantry models with camo cloaks aren’t as dependent on terrain anymore. Camo scouts sitting on the open table have an effective 2+ armor save against shooters more than 12” away (and then in terrain they *also* get the -1 to hit). RG sniper scouts maybe now harder to shift with shooting?
RG dreads lost out a little bit because they can’t get the -1 to hit anymore. But all vehicles getting the +1 cover save regardless of terrain makes it seem like long-range, stand off RG vehicles in general got a survival boost. 2+ save stormtalons anyone? It might even be time to dust off those old (now cheaper) typhoon speeders.
"The complete or partial destruction of the enemy must be regarded as the sole object of all engagements.... Direct annihilation of the enemy's forces must always be the dominant consideration." Karl von Clausewitz
2019/08/24 23:27:12
Subject: + Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
I am thinking about running the captain as a biker with the wind trait to decrease chances of him dying with adamantium mantle to give him a +3 ++4 +++5 that would make him super tanky. With a powerfist and storm shield to stick on the table longer.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2019/08/24 23:38:45
Subject: Re:+ Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
Ice_can wrote: Well have to say I was very impressed with the codex.
Finally having strategums worth playing made me start with double battalion.
Still not a massive fan of scouts to be honest primaris and tac marines did good work and grav cannons dev cents did a good number on guard tanks. An apocathory will be good if I can find the points.
Dreadnaughts still good, tacs are way better, intercessors are improved, Calgar improved, Smash chaplin was rediculous, really needs a way to shutdown overwatch though.
I've got to go first in all my games with the new codex and I have been playing Ultramarines. All 3 games have been massive victories.
Big shout out to autobolter intercessors. They are great. Redemptors really liking bonus attacks and ability to move and shoot without pentalty. It's mostly the stratagems though. Team overwatch is incredibly good. Ability to switch doctrines on demand is also good. Overall Ultramarines have really become a strong melle force IMO. Not penalized for moving on turn 2 with a lot of bonus attacks coming via banner and +1 attack relic plus angels of death - if all goes well I am getting nearly double the attacks in melle as before with redemptors - even considering paying the CP for vetrens. Buff to Gravis captian. Redemptors don't even get targeted most the time because there are intercessors and redemptors in their face and they REALLY lay down the pain too.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/08/24 23:44:43
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2019/08/25 03:48:33
Subject: Re:+ Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
Flavius Infernus wrote: If I’m mathammering correctly, I think the new Ravenguard Chapter Tactic is actually mathematically better than the old one. +1 to armor saves results in about a third of a wound less than -1 on average, unless I’m missing something.
Also this means RG infantry models with camo cloaks aren’t as dependent on terrain anymore. Camo scouts sitting on the open table have an effective 2+ armor save against shooters more than 12” away (and then in terrain they *also* get the -1 to hit). RG sniper scouts maybe now harder to shift with shooting?
RG dreads lost out a little bit because they can’t get the -1 to hit anymore. But all vehicles getting the +1 cover save regardless of terrain makes it seem like long-range, stand off RG vehicles in general got a survival boost. 2+ save stormtalons anyone? It might even be time to dust off those old (now cheaper) typhoon speeders.
I felt the same when i saw the change. Its only worse for dreadnaughts. Everyone else should eirher see this as a bonus or actually get this as a bonus now.
My big question is whats better? -1 to hit for infantry in cover OR taking a sucsessor chapter with stealthy (counts as cover outside 12") and the iron hands bonus of vehicles count as double the wounds or the actual ravenguard traits?
I know i am playing in a 1000 pt tournament tomorrow and am running stealthy (counts as cover) and bolter bonus (reroll bolter hits of 1) but i am running almost 50 marines at 1k pts so i plan on making the most of the chapter tactics.
2019/08/25 09:05:50
Subject: + Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
In order to benefit from a chaplain's litany, that is on the battlefield T1, Can a unit arrive T2 by deep strike or does it have to be on the battlefield at the begining of t2 ?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/25 09:05:57
godardc wrote: In order to benefit from a chaplain's litany, that is on the battlefield T1, Can a unit arrive T2 by deep strike or does it have to be on the battlefield at the begining of t2 ?
That depends on the specific litany I would say as some appear to be an aura around the chaplin, while others are placed on specific units.
2019/08/25 11:15:42
Subject: + Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
godardc wrote: In order to benefit from a chaplain's litany, that is on the battlefield T1, Can a unit arrive T2 by deep strike or does it have to be on the battlefield at the begining of t2 ?
That depends on the specific litany I would say as some appear to be an aura around the chaplin, while others are placed on specific units.
Ultramarines, 3rd Co. and friends, 16k+ 
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