Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Guerilla Miniature's review of the Raven Guard book:

Spoiler:

There's definitely some nice Warlord Traits(Swift and Deadly would be great for a Captain with Jump Pack; Advance+Charge in a 6" bubble).

Oppressor's End is a Relic Combat Knife, so the Reiver Lt can get a nasty trick with attacks vs characters getting resolved at 3 damage.
Ex Tenebris can go on Phobos Captains to give you a Assault 3 S4 -2AP 2 Damage Bolt Carbine that ignores Cover.
Shadowmaster's Cloak(3+ Invuln when wholly on a terrain feature) is nice.

But can we talk about the Stratagem, "Strangehold"? Am I wrong in thinking that might be a Big Deal? If you have Phobos or Scout units in your Raven Guard army, your opponent has to roll each time they do a Stratagem...if they fail their CP cost goes up by 1 for the Stratagem.

Am I crazy for thinking that's a good trick?

As a RG player I am very happy with the supplement. The new Shrike is amazing at 130pts.

 Blood Hawk wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Guerilla Miniature's review of the Raven Guard book:

Spoiler:

There's definitely some nice Warlord Traits(Swift and Deadly would be great for a Captain with Jump Pack; Advance+Charge in a 6" bubble).

Oppressor's End is a Relic Combat Knife, so the Reiver Lt can get a nasty trick with attacks vs characters getting resolved at 3 damage.
Ex Tenebris can go on Phobos Captains to give you a Assault 3 S4 -2AP 2 Damage Bolt Carbine that ignores Cover.
Shadowmaster's Cloak(3+ Invuln when wholly on a terrain feature) is nice.

But can we talk about the Stratagem, "Strangehold"? Am I wrong in thinking that might be a Big Deal? If you have Phobos or Scout units in your Raven Guard army, your opponent has to roll each time they do a Stratagem...if they fail their CP cost goes up by 1 for the Stratagem.

Am I crazy for thinking that's a good trick?

As a RG player I am very happy with the supplement. The new Shrike is amazing at 130pts.

Hopefully other Chapter Masters get some similar price cuts in their respective books. Shrike is so much better now than before, but his price went down. *Crosses fingers for a 130 pt or less Primaris Pedro Kantor*

Shrike is amazing at 130. Definatly happy about that.

Ironhands is fething stupid. I am going to say that now. That needs to get toned down/something needs to be done.

Iron father is 110? Wth?
Dreadnaughts getting the 6" consolidation wl trait so they can charge in, punch something, then consolidate back 6" to be out of range? Or even a smash captain doing that.....
They get the black templar deny psycic power on a 4+ roll after deny attempts? Why?!?

There are a lot of things that seem broken by the new iron hands. Apparently the gw testing team really likes them, what other explanation could there be for all of this gak?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Hopefully other Chapter Masters get some similar price cuts in their respective books. Shrike is so much better now than before, but his price went down. *Crosses fingers for a 130 pt or less Primaris Pedro Kantor*

Kantor's a shooty boss...I hope he doesn't get anywhere down near 130.

the warlord traits and strats make raven guard a lot better then at first glance. They have a WT that lets the warlord and a unit of infantry at the start the game get placed anywhere 9" away from enemy. Hello assault centurions and smash captain in your face backed up by invictors and phobos units. Give that trait to a chaplain instead for the 2" charge move too.

Played a game with ultra successors (master artisans & +1 charge) against a nasty genestealer cults list yesterday, mg thoughts on some of the stuff i used.

Centurians - lascannon, hurricane - were pretty boss always a found a good target.

Photos captain - against gsc his deep strike denial was great and his dam3 bolter was non to shabby.

Tactical terminators - drop in with tactical doc up, no penalty on firing the cyclone, blase away with 20 -1 ap stormbolters the assault something else with extra powerfist attacks. Loved them.

Eliminators - didn't actually kill too much but really altered how my opponent deployed and moved in the early game.

Stern guard in a pod - surgical tool, I play with 9 and a company champion, he gives good counter assault and a possible character assassination out of DS, great for his points.

Thunder fire cannons - seems pretty bonkers for there points now. BS 2+ and a 4 wound 2+ save character with a powerfist for very few points is a steal. Double shooting tremor shell FTW.

Tac marines - I ran double plasma squads and gravcannon, bolted squads. Didn't set the world alight but with the new bonuses seemed worth their points.

Overall everything seems useful, the extra attack on first round gives marines a new dimension and make them alot more generally dangerous to week chaff, the AP from doctrines lets them threaten bigger stuff

Assault centurions that can start 9” away makes me finally seriously tempted to buy the things.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Hopefully other Chapter Masters get some similar price cuts in their respective books. Shrike is so much better now than before, but his price went down. *Crosses fingers for a 130 pt or less Primaris Pedro Kantor*

Kantor's a shooty boss...I hope he doesn't get anywhere down near 130.

His main unique ability buffs the Fight Phase though. His shooting weapon is not that great either.

Wow...they are really pricing the new stuff to move here. LOL.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Hopefully other Chapter Masters get some similar price cuts in their respective books. Shrike is so much better now than before, but his price went down. *Crosses fingers for a 130 pt or less Primaris Pedro Kantor*

Kantor's a shooty boss...I hope he doesn't get anywhere down near 130.

His main unique ability buffs the Fight Phase though. His shooting weapon is not that great either.

It likely going to get the damage 2 treatment.

I still think the weirdest thing with RG is that their chapter tactic benefits when being far away and then all their cool strats let you get close. Now that there's custom chapter tactics I kinda think I'd always want to go custom unless centering an army around Shrike?

Let's say you're putting 12 Assault Centurions 9" away along with some Invictors. Nothing is going to be firing over 12" at your backfield campers until that is dealt with, why not take something like Long Range Marksmen and Whirlwind?

So this is what I am thinking for 2k raven guard with what we know now.

3 batallions.

1st one-

Shrike -130 pts
Chaplain - cantical of hate, extra warlord trait - 72 pts

Scout team 1 - 5 scouts w/ sniper rifles - 65 pts
Scout team 2 - 5 scouts w/ sniper rifles - 65 pts
Scout team 3 - 5 scouts w/ sniper rifles - 65 pts

Centurion assault squad - 6 centurions w/ flamers - 252 pts


2nd one -

Librarian - jump pack, force staff, bolt pistol - 116 pts
Librarian in phobos armor - warlord - 101 pts

Intercessor squad 1 - 5 men w/ auto bolt rifles - 90 pts
Intercessor squad 2 - 5 men w/ auto bolt rifles - 90 pts
Intercessor squad 3 - 5 men w/ auto bolt rifles - 90 pts

Eleminator squad 1 - 2 men w/ las fusil, 1 w/ instigator bolt carbine - 98 pts
Eleminator squad 2 - 2 men w/ las fusil, 1 w/ instigator bolt carbine - 98 pts



3rd one -

Leiutenant - chainsword, bolt pistol - 60 pts
Primaris captain - master crafted auto bolt rifle, power sword - 86 pts

Scout squad 1 - 5 men w/ sniper rifles- 65 pts
Scout squad 2 - 5 men w/ sniper rifles- 65 pts
Intercessor squad - 5 men w/ stalker bolt rifles - 85 pts

Thunderfire cannon - 92 pts
Devistator squad - 5 men, 4 w/ grav cannons, 1 ammo cherub - 150 pts

Drop pod - 65 pts


Total - 2000 pts.



List idea is tricks of the trade.

Chaplain uses raven warlord trait to put him and the centurians right on your opponents front door t1.
Drop pod drops devistators in t1 for a garunteed "f u" to something using the strat
Intercessors take up position mid field with shrike as counter charge.
Snipers take up flanks to keep ds away and snipe any chrs who pop their heads out.
Thunderfire keeps fast moving units slowed down.
Warlord keeps the eleminators shooting at max effectiveness while keeping himself safe due to shrouding (even a vindicator cant snipe your warlord!)

Thoughts?

Azuza001 wrote:
So this is what I am thinking for 2k raven guard with what we know now.

3 batallions.

1st one-

Shrike -130 pts
Chaplain - cantical of hate, extra warlord trait - 72 pts

Scout team 1 - 5 scouts w/ sniper rifles - 65 pts
Scout team 2 - 5 scouts w/ sniper rifles - 65 pts
Scout team 3 - 5 scouts w/ sniper rifles - 65 pts

Centurion assault squad - 6 centurions w/ flamers - 252 pts


2nd one -

Librarian - jump pack, force staff, bolt pistol - 116 pts
Librarian in phobos armor - warlord - 101 pts

Intercessor squad 1 - 5 men w/ auto bolt rifles - 90 pts
Intercessor squad 2 - 5 men w/ auto bolt rifles - 90 pts
Intercessor squad 3 - 5 men w/ auto bolt rifles - 90 pts

Eleminator squad 1 - 2 men w/ las fusil, 1 w/ instigator bolt carbine - 98 pts
Eleminator squad 2 - 2 men w/ las fusil, 1 w/ instigator bolt carbine - 98 pts



3rd one -

Leiutenant - chainsword, bolt pistol - 60 pts
Primaris captain - master crafted auto bolt rifle, power sword - 86 pts

Scout squad 1 - 5 men w/ sniper rifles- 65 pts
Scout squad 2 - 5 men w/ sniper rifles- 65 pts
Intercessor squad - 5 men w/ stalker bolt rifles - 85 pts

Thunderfire cannon - 92 pts
Devistator squad - 5 men, 4 w/ grav cannons, 1 ammo cherub - 150 pts

Drop pod - 65 pts


Total - 2000 pts.



List idea is tricks of the trade.

Chaplain uses raven warlord trait to put him and the centurians right on your opponents front door t1.
Drop pod drops devistators in t1 for a garunteed "f u" to something using the strat
Intercessors take up position mid field with shrike as counter charge.
Snipers take up flanks to keep ds away and snipe any chrs who pop their heads out.
Thunderfire keeps fast moving units slowed down.
Warlord keeps the eleminators shooting at max effectiveness while keeping himself safe due to shrouding (even a vindicator cant snipe your warlord!)

Thoughts?

I'd take 6 aggressors instead of the cents and go to town with 30 points to spare. Otherwise I'd shave points from somewhere to get an Apothecary for the cents

Preemptively made an Iron Hands list. Find it here.

Edit: Also, are Attack Bikes gonna be good for Iron Hands? No move penalty, and 4 T5 3+/6+++ wounds for 37 points... Tasty.

@ Kithail, why aggressors vs centurions? Is there something i am missing? Centurions seem to have more wounds and be a bigger threat in cc and for hoard clearing.

I am asking because i havent pulled the trigger on them yet and i would like to make sure i am not wasting 150$ on 6 of these guys.

I really think incursors would be amazing in a ravenguard list.

So, iron hands double storm cannon array relic leviathan dreadnought, make it a character with march of the ancients, give it a warlord trait with hero of the chapter, the one where when you consolidate 6" and you can move in any direction. Feel free to give it a relic, if you like. When your opponent charges it you will overwatch on 5+, because of iron hands chapter tactic, plus the 2D6 automatic heavy flamer hits (if within 8"), and with a stratagem you will overwatch on 4s. Your leviathan will still have 4 attacks at S8 AP0 D1, because of march of the ancients, and shock assault. If any enemy models are still alive, and you are in melee, you can consolidate away from them, and shoot on your next turn, because you didnt fallback in the movement phase

Hello everyone! I know there's this love about the new stuff coming out recently (and hell I'm a RG funboy myself) but I kinda have this feeling that the best chapter tactics are the combination of the custom ones , regarding competitive play at least (ETC player here) . What do you thing about that ? I feel that you can "tailor" each force the way it suits you that is . I 'll post the following list as an example . There's the shooty part and the cc part filling different roles :


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [62 PL, 8CP, 1,237pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Bolter Fusillades, Stalwart

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Detachment CP [5CP]

+ HQ +

Primaris Lieutenants [4 PL, 69pts]
. Primaris Lieutenant: Master-crafted auto bolt rifle

Primaris Lieutenants [4 PL, 69pts]
. Primaris Lieutenant: Master-crafted auto bolt rifle

+ Troops +

Intercessor Squad [10 PL, 182pts]: Auto Bolt Rifle, 2x Auxiliary Grenade Launcher
. 9x Intercessor
. Intercessor Sergeant

Intercessor Squad [10 PL, 181pts]: Auto Bolt Rifle, Auxiliary Grenade Launcher
. 9x Intercessor
. Intercessor Sergeant

Tactical Squad [4 PL, 70pts]
. 3x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter

+ Elites +

Aggressor Squad [10 PL, 222pts]: 5x Aggressor, Aggressor Sergeant
. Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher

Aggressor Squad [10 PL, 222pts]: 5x Aggressor, Aggressor Sergeant
. Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher

Aggressor Squad [10 PL, 222pts]: 5x Aggressor, Aggressor Sergeant
. Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [37 PL, , 763pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Hungry for Battle, Whirlwind of Rage

Detachment CP [1CP]

+ HQ +

Captain in Terminator Armor [6 PL, 145pts]: Storm shield, The Imperium's Sword, Thunder hammer, Warlord

Chaplain [5 PL, -1CP, 90pts]: 6. Canticle of Hate, Benediction of Fury, Bolt pistol, Jump Pack, Litany of Hate, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, The Imperium's Sword

Librarian [6 PL, 118pts]: 1) Veil of Time, 2) Might of Heroes, Boltgun, Force axe, Jump Pack

+ Elites +

Terminator Assault Squad [20 PL, 410pts]: Teleport Homer , storm shield , thunder hammer
. Terminator Sergeant , storm shield , thunder hammer

You can't have duplicate warlord traits.

Pandabeer wrote:
You can't have duplicate warlord traits.

True that ! Yeah probably I will go champion of humanity or legendary fighter with the captain . This is not a competitive list though , I post it as an example for the chapter tactics .

Hammernators are still not viable IMO due to lack of mobility even though combat squading them will make them somewhat better at addressing different threats on the table

But yeah you are absolutely right sir , thanx

What about using Hammernators as a screening unit to protect a gunline, in case you need to slap away some charging units who would otherwise tie you up?

Waaaghpower wrote:
What about using Hammernators as a screening unit to protect a gunline, in case you need to slap away some charging units who would otherwise tie you up?

Assault centurions are probably better. They can still shoot with their hurricanes and flamers as well as acting as counter assault.

 Blood Hawk wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:
What about using Hammernators as a screening unit to protect a gunline, in case you need to slap away some charging units who would otherwise tie you up?

Assault centurions are probably better. They can still shoot with their hurricanes and flamers as well as acting as counter assault.

True, but consider this: I don't own any Assault Centurions.
In all seriousness, though, would it change the math since they're Iron Hands and can bring along a heavy weapon, which they'll benefit from more than the assault weapons that Centurions can take?

Waaaghpower wrote:

 Blood Hawk wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:
What about using Hammernators as a screening unit to protect a gunline, in case you need to slap away some charging units who would otherwise tie you up?

Assault centurions are probably better. They can still shoot with their hurricanes and flamers as well as acting as counter assault.

True, but consider this: I don't own any Assault Centurions.
In all seriousness, though, would it change the math since they're Iron Hands and can bring along a heavy weapon, which they'll benefit from more than the assault weapons that Centurions can take?

Assulat terminators can't bring a heavy weapon it's CC only, you would have to go 30k terminators to be able to mix CC and shooting and even then I still don't think they make a good unit for that.

Ice_can wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:

 Blood Hawk wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:
What about using Hammernators as a screening unit to protect a gunline, in case you need to slap away some charging units who would otherwise tie you up?

Assault centurions are probably better. They can still shoot with their hurricanes and flamers as well as acting as counter assault.

True, but consider this: I don't own any Assault Centurions.
In all seriousness, though, would it change the math since they're Iron Hands and can bring along a heavy weapon, which they'll benefit from more than the assault weapons that Centurions can take?

Assulat terminators can't bring a heavy weapon it's CC only, you would have to go 30k terminators to be able to mix CC and shooting and even then I still don't think they make a good unit for that.

Whoops, you're right. I'm used to playing Space Wolves when I bring terminators.

Azuza001 wrote:
@ Kithail, why aggressors vs centurions? Is there something i am missing? Centurions seem to have more wounds and be a bigger threat in cc and for hoard clearing.

I am asking because i havent pulled the trigger on them yet and i would like to make sure i am not wasting 150$ on 6 of these guys.

Nothing is better at horde clearance than aggressors. Remember you can infiltrate them now without having counted as moving aand shoot twice for literally hundreds of shots. It is a suicide unit but the amount of shots with Shrike nearby (add a lieutenant to rub salt) is insane. 6 have good chances of getting some to survive and fist someone anus in the next charge phase.

EDIT: I think that blob of 6 aggressors with shrike will be seen a lot in RG lists. You even reroll the 9" charge with him around and he adds some oomph. Second turn you can fall back with survivors with the RG strat and shoot some character in the face and then charge a tank along with shrike. Even if the enemy dedicates a lot of firepower to erase them fron existence, well, you have the rest of the army to keep shooting. T5 12W and 2+ for anything outside 12" is surprisingly survivable.

I think dropping something in a pod, plus phobos units/Invictor suits to really put the threats up close and personal, make opponent have tough choices

So IH Haywire bolts...

Seems like it would be a nice relic in lower points games when you take a Primaris Lt in a battalion along with Fierros. Give said Lt a Stalker Bolt Rifle and in Dev doctrine you could potentially deal 6 damage to an enemy vehicle turn 1(if you roll a 6 to wound, -1 AP for heavy on the gun for AP-3, 3 damage from the normal shot and 3 Mortal wounds). even if you do not roll the 6 to wound you have a 50% chance to damage with d3 mortal wounds.

A required second HQ that only costs 70pts and is a credible threat all game seems like a pretty darn good choice.

For the Phobos Librarian power 'Temporal Corridor' you pick a Phobos unit to move as if in the movement phase +advance. Does the advance part carry over to prevent shooting and/or charging?

bmsattler wrote:
For the Phobos Librarian power 'Temporal Corridor' you pick a Phobos unit to move as if in the movement phase +advance. Does the advance part carry over to prevent shooting and/or charging?

Yes, any "as if it were x phase" is treated exactly as if the actions were carried out in that phase.

The Power forces an advance move, therefore you are treated in all cases as if you had advanced in the previous movement phase.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

bmsattler wrote:
For the Phobos Librarian power 'Temporal Corridor' you pick a Phobos unit to move as if in the movement phase +advance. Does the advance part carry over to prevent shooting and/or charging?

Yes, any "as if it were x phase" is treated exactly as if the actions were carried out in that phase.

The Power forces an advance move, therefore you are treated in all cases as if you had advanced in the previous movement phase.

You can, however, use the Stratagem to allow this unit to charge.