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 Blood Hawk wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
You can either use the disciplines from the SM codex, or from your supplement, but you cant mix psychic powers. You would need two psykers if you want psychic powers from both books.

You can mix powers from different disciplines with the Tome of Malcador. It lets you take an additional power from any discipline you have access to. You can't mix Librarius or Obscuration anymore though.

not since the codex release you can't. the wording changed.

bmsattler wrote:
I know there was errata on the tome, but I couldn't find it when I looked.

There was an FAQ question on the tome with the old codex, the new FAQ for the new codex doesn't have anything about the tome.

Edit:

 WindstormSCR wrote:

 Blood Hawk wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
You can either use the disciplines from the SM codex, or from your supplement, but you cant mix psychic powers. You would need two psykers if you want psychic powers from both books.

You can mix powers from different disciplines with the Tome of Malcador. It lets you take an additional power from any discipline you have access to. You can't mix Librarius or Obscuration anymore though.

not since the codex release you can't. the wording changed.

Rereading the relevant rules here I am not sure now.

The tome new wording is: "Librarian model only. A model with this Relic knows one additional psychic power from any discipline they have access to."

The RG supplement says: "Librarian models in Raven Guard detachments can know all of their psychic powers from the Umbramancy discipline instead of the Librarius or Obscuration disciplines."

So if I have a RG phobos librarian in a RG detachment, I have access to both Obscuration and Umbramancy. So when I take the tome as well does that third power have to be from same discipline as the other two or can be it from either? I do have access to both.

Quick question. Are people finding Primaris units work better as 5 man MSU or as full squads with the new UM rules and some of the generic SM strats?
Some units like the infiltrators, eliminators and deep striking units like Reivers and interceptors and suppressors might be better as smaller units due to foot print on deep strike but thinking more on the likes of intercessors aggressors and hellblasters

No wolves on Fenris wrote:
Quick question. Are people finding Primaris units work better as 5 man MSU or as full squads with the new UM rules and some of the generic SM strats?
Some units like the infiltrators, eliminators and deep striking units like Reivers and interceptors and suppressors might be better as smaller units due to foot print on deep strike but thinking more on the likes of intercessors aggressors and hellblasters

It depends. If your game plan evolves around using certain stratagems, warlord traits, etc.like rapid fire that only work on a single unit then larger units would be better, otherwise though MSU is the way to go IMO. MSU helps you fill out detachments faster and gives better target saturation.

 p5freak wrote:

Keramory wrote:
If I understand correctly, we dont get dev/tactical/assault tactics if we mix custodes and guard right?

Yes, your army needs to be "pure" SM. You can have any chapter from the new SM codex, and mix those, but you cant add any other IMPERIUM faction.

Keramory wrote:

If that's so, are the new buffs worth keeping them "pure", or is soup still better?

Thats hard to say.

Keramory wrote:

Playing necrons soon and was thinking about bringing custode shield captain bikes and a terminator squad for 700 points, rest being Primaris for 1300 (I only have primaris). Was leaving out my repulsor and executioner because those necron shields and d6 damage.

Bring lots of D2 or D3 damage weapons, QS is mostly useless against those. Now, what good unit has D2 guns ? The leviathan Autocannons on dreads are fine against crons. Also anything that works against FLY, like stalker, hunter.

 Blood Hawk wrote:

bmsattler wrote:
I know there was errata on the tome, but I couldn't find it when I looked.

There was an FAQ question on the tome with the old codex, the new FAQ for the new codex doesn't have anything about the tome.

Edit:

 WindstormSCR wrote:

 Blood Hawk wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
You can either use the disciplines from the SM codex, or from your supplement, but you cant mix psychic powers. You would need two psykers if you want psychic powers from both books.

You can mix powers from different disciplines with the Tome of Malcador. It lets you take an additional power from any discipline you have access to. You can't mix Librarius or Obscuration anymore though.

not since the codex release you can't. the wording changed.

Rereading the relevant rules here I am not sure now.

The tome new wording is: "Librarian model only. A model with this Relic knows one additional psychic power from any discipline they have access to."

The RG supplement says: "Librarian models in Raven Guard detachments can know all of their psychic powers from the Umbramancy discipline instead of the Librarius or Obscuration disciplines."

So if I have a RG phobos librarian in a RG detachment, I have access to both Obscuration and Umbramancy. So when I take the tome as well does that third power have to be from same discipline as the other two or can be it from either? I do have access to both.

Thank you for the exact wording. I have the new Space Marine codex, but my Raven Guard supplement is still in the mail.

Its interesting that the FAQ applies to the old codex, but not the new one. Perhaps they just thought it was redundant. Without that, based on the wording here, it would seem like the Tome would allow you to pick from 2-3 disciplines (depending on whether you're Phobos or not).

With the new codex nobody should even consider necrons when building their army competitively lmao. The power gap is so absurd you should only be toning your list down verse them during friendly games

bmsattler wrote:

 Blood Hawk wrote:

bmsattler wrote:
I know there was errata on the tome, but I couldn't find it when I looked.

There was an FAQ question on the tome with the old codex, the new FAQ for the new codex doesn't have anything about the tome.

Edit:

 WindstormSCR wrote:

 Blood Hawk wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
You can either use the disciplines from the SM codex, or from your supplement, but you cant mix psychic powers. You would need two psykers if you want psychic powers from both books.

You can mix powers from different disciplines with the Tome of Malcador. It lets you take an additional power from any discipline you have access to. You can't mix Librarius or Obscuration anymore though.

not since the codex release you can't. the wording changed.

Rereading the relevant rules here I am not sure now.

The tome new wording is: "Librarian model only. A model with this Relic knows one additional psychic power from any discipline they have access to."

The RG supplement says: "Librarian models in Raven Guard detachments can know all of their psychic powers from the Umbramancy discipline instead of the Librarius or Obscuration disciplines."

So if I have a RG phobos librarian in a RG detachment, I have access to both Obscuration and Umbramancy. So when I take the tome as well does that third power have to be from same discipline as the other two or can be it from either? I do have access to both.

Thank you for the exact wording. I have the new Space Marine codex, but my Raven Guard supplement is still in the mail.

Its interesting that the FAQ applies to the old codex, but not the new one. Perhaps they just thought it was redundant. Without that, based on the wording here, it would seem like the Tome would allow you to pick from 2-3 disciplines (depending on whether you're Phobos or not).

The way it's written for picking powers for librarians in both the main codex and supplements implies the intention was that you can only know powers from a single discipline but as usual GW has been keeping loopholes in vagueness of wordings for people to argue over.

The supliment says you can know all powers from supliment powers instead of the codex powers (no mix and matching) this should apply even with the tome additional power aswell but GW hasn't been great at wording of relics to be clear.

 Red Corsair wrote:
With the new codex nobody should even consider necrons when building their army competitively lmao. The power gap is so absurd you should only be toning your list down verse them during friendly games

As someone that mained Necrons 4th onwards, I can tell you this is true. QS spam can be okay but that's about it. They're not offensively that good

The tome lets you take an additional psychic power but the librarians must take all their psychic powers from one disipline.

The keyword is "all"

U02dah4 wrote:
The tome lets you take an additional psychic power but the librarians must take all their psychic powers from one disipline.

The keyword is "all"

To know to start, yes. But the tome says 1 power they have “access” to. Each librarian had access to 2 schools. I’m assuming it’ll be FAQed to all from the picked school like it was before, but RAW I’m in the camp that you could mix.

bort wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:
The tome lets you take an additional psychic power but the librarians must take all their psychic powers from one disipline.

The keyword is "all"

To know to start, yes. But the tome says 1 power they have “access” to. Each librarian had access to 2 schools. I’m assuming it’ll be FAQed to all from the picked school like it was before, but RAW I’m in the camp that you could mix.

It will be logical that we can use a psychic power from another « school ». It’s a spellbook at the end

 Blood Hawk wrote:

No wolves on Fenris wrote:
Quick question. Are people finding Primaris units work better as 5 man MSU or as full squads with the new UM rules and some of the generic SM strats?
Some units like the infiltrators, eliminators and deep striking units like Reivers and interceptors and suppressors might be better as smaller units due to foot print on deep strike but thinking more on the likes of intercessors aggressors and hellblasters

It depends. If your game plan evolves around using certain stratagems, warlord traits, etc.like rapid fire that only work on a single unit then larger units would be better, otherwise though MSU is the way to go IMO. MSU helps you fill out detachments faster and gives better target saturation.

It was the use of the intercessor strats I was thinking of plus a Deathstar unit of 6 aggressors with the bolt gauntlets and Missile launchers and putting them near Gman and a chaplain with the +1 wound litany and using the UM strat that gives them extra ap on a 6 as well as the strat that allows me to put them on the tactical doctrine from turn 1 and just marching them up the field firing at 1 unit at a time. I’d also have an apothecary and an ancient with the UM banner relic for wound heals and extra shooting when a model dies. Not to mention +1 attack when they all reach combat

No wolves on Fenris wrote:

 Blood Hawk wrote:

No wolves on Fenris wrote:
Quick question. Are people finding Primaris units work better as 5 man MSU or as full squads with the new UM rules and some of the generic SM strats?
Some units like the infiltrators, eliminators and deep striking units like Reivers and interceptors and suppressors might be better as smaller units due to foot print on deep strike but thinking more on the likes of intercessors aggressors and hellblasters

It depends. If your game plan evolves around using certain stratagems, warlord traits, etc.like rapid fire that only work on a single unit then larger units would be better, otherwise though MSU is the way to go IMO. MSU helps you fill out detachments faster and gives better target saturation.

It was the use of the intercessor strats I was thinking of plus a Deathstar unit of 6 aggressors with the bolt gauntlets and Missile launchers and putting them near Gman and a chaplain with the +1 wound litany and using the UM strat that gives them extra ap on a 6 as well as the strat that allows me to put them on the tactical doctrine from turn 1 and just marching them up the field firing at 1 unit at a time. I’d also have an apothecary and an ancient with the UM banner relic for wound heals and extra shooting when a model dies. Not to mention +1 attack when they all reach combat

For units like the aggressors bigger units are better. Otherwise if you don't plan on stacking buffs like that you are better off with MSU. As far as the Intercessor strats go bigger squads are better but with all the others strats that marines have access to now with the supplements, I am not sure the intercessor strats are worth it at this point. It may be better to spend the CPs elsewhere and take MSU intercessors to fill out battalions.

No wolves on Fenris wrote:
Quick question. Are people finding Primaris units work better as 5 man MSU or as full squads with the new UM rules and some of the generic SM strats?
Some units like the infiltrators, eliminators and deep striking units like Reivers and interceptors and suppressors might be better as smaller units due to foot print on deep strike but thinking more on the likes of intercessors aggressors and hellblasters

5 mans are great on their own but 10 mans make best use of stratagems like rapid fire and the sniper strat for stalkers. Including one 10 man unit is something I typically do but ultimately this will be the unit that gets targeted first. Just make sure that unit is in cover. MSU is the way to got now for most your squads because we actually have good stratagems so you really need to fill out 2 batallions to get the most out of them.

 Xenomancers wrote:

No wolves on Fenris wrote:
Quick question. Are people finding Primaris units work better as 5 man MSU or as full squads with the new UM rules and some of the generic SM strats?
Some units like the infiltrators, eliminators and deep striking units like Reivers and interceptors and suppressors might be better as smaller units due to foot print on deep strike but thinking more on the likes of intercessors aggressors and hellblasters

5 mans are great on their own but 10 mans make best use of stratagems like rapid fire and the sniper strat for stalkers. Including one 10 man unit is something I typically do but ultimately this will be the unit that gets targeted first. Just make sure that unit is in cover. MSU is the way to got now for most your squads because we actually have good stratagems so you really need to fill out 2 batallions to get the most out of them.

Thanks for the advice. Think I’ll go for the 10 man intercessors and 6 man aggressors and basically MSU the rest especially the vanguard units. Planning on going full Primaris except Roboute but then he seems to fit in that design and perhaps my grav centurions to make some use of the new grav strat as well.

Is it only me who find the combination of Litany of Faith and Victrix Honor guards tempting? In a sniper heavy eliminator meta all those extra mortal wounds on your characters can be denyed on +5 thanks to the litany (from the begining on the battle round if casted successfully, even if you go second you get the protection). Furthermore, as far as i know all attacks against your characters can be intercepted by the Victrix guards on +2 and are turned into mortal wounds that can be ignored on +5 as well by the litany.

Let me know if I interpreted this the wrong way! Thanks

Bryten wrote:
Is it only me who find the combination of Litany of Faith and Victrix Honor guards tempting? In a sniper heavy eliminator meta all those extra mortal wounds on your characters can be denyed on +5 thanks to the litany (from the begining on the battle round if casted successfully, even if you go second you get the protection). Furthermore, as far as i know all attacks against your characters can be intercepted by the Victrix guards on +2 and are turned into mortal wounds that can be ignored on +5 as well by the litany.

Let me know if I interpreted this the wrong way! Thanks

You can do it, and it would add 8 wounds (honor guards have 6 wounds +2 from ignore on 5+) to a single, or multiple characters. And they only get to ignore on 5+ if you roll a 3+ at the start of the battle round. But is it worth 132 pts. ? You can get an additional character for those points.

9 wounds. 2/3 chance to ignore wounds translates to 3/2 increase in effective wound count.

 p5freak wrote:

Bryten wrote:
Is it only me who find the combination of Litany of Faith and Victrix Honor guards tempting? In a sniper heavy eliminator meta all those extra mortal wounds on your characters can be denyed on +5 thanks to the litany (from the begining on the battle round if casted successfully, even if you go second you get the protection). Furthermore, as far as i know all attacks against your characters can be intercepted by the Victrix guards on +2 and are turned into mortal wounds that can be ignored on +5 as well by the litany.

Let me know if I interpreted this the wrong way! Thanks

You can do it, and it would add 8 wounds (honor guards have 6 wounds +2 from ignore on 5+) to a single, or multiple characters. And they only get to ignore on 5+ if you roll a 3+ at the start of the battle round. But is it worth 132 pts. ? You can get an additional character for those points.

Victrix are only 60 pts for 2 models and they have 3 wounds each. I am running chaplain cassius so can take a second prayer as well, such as the +hit or wound to shooting. I think the flexibility of choosing to save a certain character is worth the points, and calgar is even halving the wounds before he pass them on to the Victrix. As I see it you even get a chance to ignore the mortal wounds on 5+ twice, first on your character then on the guards (since they are turned into mortals) and that is after you save on your characters (depending what kind of fire is incoming of course).

Bryten wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

Bryten wrote:
Is it only me who find the combination of Litany of Faith and Victrix Honor guards tempting? In a sniper heavy eliminator meta all those extra mortal wounds on your characters can be denyed on +5 thanks to the litany (from the begining on the battle round if casted successfully, even if you go second you get the protection). Furthermore, as far as i know all attacks against your characters can be intercepted by the Victrix guards on +2 and are turned into mortal wounds that can be ignored on +5 as well by the litany.

Let me know if I interpreted this the wrong way! Thanks

You can do it, and it would add 8 wounds (honor guards have 6 wounds +2 from ignore on 5+) to a single, or multiple characters. And they only get to ignore on 5+ if you roll a 3+ at the start of the battle round. But is it worth 132 pts. ? You can get an additional character for those points.

Victrix are only 60 pts for 2 models and they have 3 wounds each. I am running chaplain cassius so can take a second prayer as well, such as the +hit or wound to shooting. I think the flexibility of choosing to save a certain character is worth the points, and calgar is even halving the wounds before he pass them on to the Victrix. As I see it you even get a chance to ignore the mortal wounds on 5+ twice, first on your character then on the guards (since they are turned into mortals) and that is after you save on your characters (depending what kind of fire is incoming of course).

You only ever get one "Ignore Damage" roll per model. So you can either take the 2+ Victrix pass, and then THEY get the 5+, or take a 5+ on your character, but CANNOT pass it on.

 JNAProductions wrote:

Bryten wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

Bryten wrote:
Is it only me who find the combination of Litany of Faith and Victrix Honor guards tempting? In a sniper heavy eliminator meta all those extra mortal wounds on your characters can be denyed on +5 thanks to the litany (from the begining on the battle round if casted successfully, even if you go second you get the protection). Furthermore, as far as i know all attacks against your characters can be intercepted by the Victrix guards on +2 and are turned into mortal wounds that can be ignored on +5 as well by the litany.

Let me know if I interpreted this the wrong way! Thanks

You can do it, and it would add 8 wounds (honor guards have 6 wounds +2 from ignore on 5+) to a single, or multiple characters. And they only get to ignore on 5+ if you roll a 3+ at the start of the battle round. But is it worth 132 pts. ? You can get an additional character for those points.

Victrix are only 60 pts for 2 models and they have 3 wounds each. I am running chaplain cassius so can take a second prayer as well, such as the +hit or wound to shooting. I think the flexibility of choosing to save a certain character is worth the points, and calgar is even halving the wounds before he pass them on to the Victrix. As I see it you even get a chance to ignore the mortal wounds on 5+ twice, first on your character then on the guards (since they are turned into mortals) and that is after you save on your characters (depending what kind of fire is incoming of course).

You only ever get one "Ignore Damage" roll per model. So you can either take the 2+ Victrix pass, and then THEY get the 5+, or take a 5+ on your character, but CANNOT pass it on.

The litany text: "Chaper unit with in 6" of this model would lose a wound as a result of a mortal wound, roll d6, on 5+ that wound is not lost." Victrix guard ability: "Roll on d6, on a 2+ that model does not lose those wounds and this unit suffers 1 mortal wound for each of those wounds. Only one attempt can be made to intercept that attack."

Lets say 1 eliminator wounds you with a shot on a 6+ and I also failed the normal saving throw. I can first attempt to block the mortal wound on my character on a 5+, lets say I fail, I take total 2 normal wounds and 1 mortal. I can now intercept that attack with my victrix on a 2+ and that passes on as 3 mortal wounds on the victrix that I can attempt to deny on +5. As per the rules I cannot see how this is not ok?

Templars get the combo as part of our CT, although you'd have to take Command Squads or Honour Guard instead of Victrix Guard.

Bryten wrote:
Is it only me who find the combination of Litany of Faith and Victrix Honor guards tempting? In a sniper heavy eliminator meta all those extra mortal wounds on your characters can be denyed on +5 thanks to the litany (from the begining on the battle round if casted successfully, even if you go second you get the protection). Furthermore, as far as i know all attacks against your characters can be intercepted by the Victrix guards on +2 and are turned into mortal wounds that can be ignored on +5 as well by the litany.

Let me know if I interpreted this the wrong way! Thanks

Nothing prevents them from just shooting the vitrix guard first. Yeah they are a little bit beefy but they are plenty of weapons that remove them pretty easily. That is a huge investment just to get picked off by bolters.

Your 2+/3++ 3 wound infantry is going to get "picked off by bolters"?

Could see 10 veteran intercessors with a PF Sgt doing some serious damage. Millions of shots with their bolters and 4 attacks each first round of combat with 5 for the sergeant!

Give him a thunder hammer and the honoured sergeant (or whatever it’s called in the other supplements) strat to make it master crafted and you have a 4damage thunder hammer on a guy with 5 attacks. Then slap on the gene wrought might strat and any 6s to hit auto wound as well in melee.

Still got a battalion box of Marines from apoc sat on my top shelf eagerly awaiting news about the black templars and Imperial fists supplements.
I've already. Got over 3k of crimson fists painted and would love to try something else out on the tabletop. Black templars would be very cool if they got their crusader squads in the form of Primaris troops back.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Bryten wrote:
Is it only me who find the combination of Litany of Faith and Victrix Honor guards tempting? In a sniper heavy eliminator meta all those extra mortal wounds on your characters can be denyed on +5 thanks to the litany (from the begining on the battle round if casted successfully, even if you go second you get the protection). Furthermore, as far as i know all attacks against your characters can be intercepted by the Victrix guards on +2 and are turned into mortal wounds that can be ignored on +5 as well by the litany.

Let me know if I interpreted this the wrong way! Thanks

Nothing prevents them from just shooting the vitrix guard first. Yeah they are a little bit beefy but they are plenty of weapons that remove them pretty easily. That is a huge investment just to get picked off by bolters.

Can you math at all? They're not getting picked off by Bolters.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Bryten wrote:
Is it only me who find the combination of Litany of Faith and Victrix Honor guards tempting? In a sniper heavy eliminator meta all those extra mortal wounds on your characters can be denyed on +5 thanks to the litany (from the begining on the battle round if casted successfully, even if you go second you get the protection). Furthermore, as far as i know all attacks against your characters can be intercepted by the Victrix guards on +2 and are turned into mortal wounds that can be ignored on +5 as well by the litany.

Let me know if I interpreted this the wrong way! Thanks

Nothing prevents them from just shooting the vitrix guard first. Yeah they are a little bit beefy but they are plenty of weapons that remove them pretty easily. That is a huge investment just to get picked off by bolters.

Can you math at all? They're not getting picked off by Bolters.

Hardly "picked off", but the thought is probably, "Since they have 3+ invul, the optimal weapon is AP-1, S5+, with up to D3 a shot". Not really sure what that is in a space marine army other than primaris type bolters and assault cannons? Maybe Autocannons/Predator Autocannons?

Regardless, the thought is don't waste heavy weapons on a 3+ invul. It's isn't harder to put down 2 of these guys with intercessor bolt guns than it is to kill 6 tactical marines.