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 DoomMouse wrote:
Pretty sure he was targeting the drones directly? Sounded like it.

To be fair now I've looked a whirlwind with vengeance does kill very slightly more drones by targeting the riptide directly. (0.9 rather than that 0.8 presuming savior protocols are passed)

That is a waste though. They will just take 3+ saves on the riptide. If you can see the drones with anything - you are already set. Whirlwinds and TFC do not compare favorably to things that can get LOS. Even an impuslor out damages a whirlwind against drones if you can see them.


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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
It might shut off super Doctrines, but not Doctrines themselves. Since I don't approve of the Super Doctrines existing in the first place I approve.

Nice way for me to fit in a dude for CP farming. Just need to make room is all...

Doctrines shut of if you have a single non space marine detachment...no? Super Doctrines shut off if all your space marine detachments are not the same chapter.

Inquisitors have a specific rule preventing it per the leaks.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Inquisitors have a specific rule preventing it per the leaks.

Ahhh I see. Cool! More rules that can be completely ignored. I suppose this also works with sisters as well? So I can take sisters in my space marine force and still get doctrines? GW is a trash company.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Inquisitors have a specific rule preventing it per the leaks.

Ahhh I see. Cool! More rules that can be completely ignored. I suppose this also works with sisters as well? So I can take sisters in my space marine force and still get doctrines? GW is a trash company.

Ah the sweet sound of Xeno losing his mind because he can’t be bothered to know what he’s talking about. Delicious.

Sterling191 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Inquisitors have a specific rule preventing it per the leaks.

Ahhh I see. Cool! More rules that can be completely ignored. I suppose this also works with sisters as well? So I can take sisters in my space marine force and still get doctrines? GW is a trash company.

Ah the sweet sound of Xeno losing his mind because he can’t be bothered to know what he’s talking about. Delicious.

You do realize that I asked a question don't you?

I think it's a cool rule, perfectly fluffy and 1/ still keep marines away from 99,99% of soup
2/ allow to play Inquisition without having to stupidly flesh it out as a full army like Grey Knights

 godardc wrote:
I think it's a cool rule, perfectly fluffy and 1/ still keep marines away from 99,99% of soup
2/ allow to play Inquisition without having to stupidly flesh it out as a full army like Grey Knights

If it is a unique trait to just inquisitors because they aren't EVER going to be fleshed out. It's fine.

 Xenomancers wrote:
You do realize that I asked a question don't you?

You didnt ask a question. You went on your usual ignorant rant about something you knew nothing about instead of, for once, trying to understand what the item in question was before dismissing it as the latest example of GW making the game different from your fantasy of what it should be.

I'm interested to see what all the bonuses will be for each specialist character from the new strats. We know chaplain gets an extra litany which I think is very strong and an auto take if you are bringing a chaplain. One of those next to my six pack centurions and hello +1BS and +1 to wound if they get both off.

My predictions are

Librarian: Knows one extra power. Denies one extra. Maybe +1 to cast, but I doubt it. (Not bad. Would take it against other psyker lists)
Reasoning being being able to cast a 3rd would over shadow the named characters who only get to manifest two.

Apothecary: heals d3+1 and revives on a 3+. (solid. Not bad.)

Techmarine: Heals a flat 3. (Meh. Not worth it by itself)

Ancient: Really hard to say, but I think either banner goes off a on 3 (Auto take), extra range by 3 inches (decent I guess) or ability to plant the banner and do something special.

Company champion: Buffs him up to chapter champion levels. (If you are bringing one you are probably gonna buff him up)

 Xenomancers wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Inquisitors have a specific rule preventing it per the leaks.

Ahhh I see. Cool! More rules that can be completely ignored. I suppose this also works with sisters as well? So I can take sisters in my space marine force and still get doctrines? GW is a trash company.

Why shouldn't Inquisitors ignore it? Sheesh calm down.

New strats to upgrade characters to chapter command status? A little out of left field GW but I will take it.

Considering a fair sized vanguard contingent on my Crimson fists army. I know they are expensive but a squad of infiltrators and an invictor (I only have 1) with some scouts all pushing forward early should be able to draw some for away from my main battle line with a whole load of intercessors and repulsors!

I’m waiting to see what the faqs bring, but as is, think a Siegebreaker Cohort is worth splashing in another marine list? Main weakness I hit in my RG or WS list ideas is antitank that doesn’t require getting off a non overwatch charge. Basically I’d drop a smash captain, a quad las mortis, and the super doctrines to get 5-6 Siegebreaker dev cents and let all my indirect fire units ignore cover from the IF trait. It’s still all my shooty eggs in 1 basket, but it’s a lot better than 4 lascannons. Seems worth it?

 Blood Hawk wrote:
New strats to upgrade characters to chapter command status? A little out of left field GW but I will take it.

The Chappy one ain't too bad because you can go ahead and take Mantra and then still have the supporting one. You're probably gonna use more CP though because the effect going off on a 3+ is pretty damn unreliable.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
I'm interested to see what all the bonuses will be for each specialist character from the new strats. We know chaplain gets an extra litany which I think is very strong and an auto take if you are bringing a chaplain. One of those next to my six pack centurions and hello +1BS and +1 to wound if they get both off.

My predictions are

Librarian: Knows one extra power. Denies one extra. Maybe +1 to cast, but I doubt it. (Not bad. Would take it against other psyker lists)
Reasoning being being able to cast a 3rd would over shadow the named characters who only get to manifest two.

Apothecary: heals d3+1 and revives on a 3+. (solid. Not bad.)

Techmarine: Heals a flat 3. (Meh. Not worth it by itself)

Ancient: Really hard to say, but I think either banner goes off a on 3 (Auto take), extra range by 3 inches (decent I guess) or ability to plant the banner and do something special.

Company champion: Buffs him up to chapter champion levels. (If you are bringing one you are probably gonna buff him up)

This is the first I'm hearing of this. Was this in the White Dwarf, or a rumored addition to Chapter Approved, or something else?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Inquisitors have a specific rule preventing it per the leaks.

Ahhh I see. Cool! More rules that can be completely ignored. I suppose this also works with sisters as well? So I can take sisters in my space marine force and still get doctrines? GW is a trash company.

Why shouldn't Inquisitors ignore it? Sheesh calm down.

Because a rule that is designed to benefit mono codex play should only benefit MONO codex play.

bmsattler wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
I'm interested to see what all the bonuses will be for each specialist character from the new strats. We know chaplain gets an extra litany which I think is very strong and an auto take if you are bringing a chaplain. One of those next to my six pack centurions and hello +1BS and +1 to wound if they get both off.

My predictions are

Librarian: Knows one extra power. Denies one extra. Maybe +1 to cast, but I doubt it. (Not bad. Would take it against other psyker lists)
Reasoning being being able to cast a 3rd would over shadow the named characters who only get to manifest two.

Apothecary: heals d3+1 and revives on a 3+. (solid. Not bad.)

Techmarine: Heals a flat 3. (Meh. Not worth it by itself)

Ancient: Really hard to say, but I think either banner goes off a on 3 (Auto take), extra range by 3 inches (decent I guess) or ability to plant the banner and do something special.

Company champion: Buffs him up to chapter champion levels. (If you are bringing one you are probably gonna buff him up)

This is the first I'm hearing of this. Was this in the White Dwarf, or a rumored addition to Chapter Approved, or something else?

In Faith and Fury, coming soon.

Zustiur wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Inquisitors have a specific rule preventing it per the leaks.

Ahhh I see. Cool! More rules that can be completely ignored. I suppose this also works with sisters as well? So I can take sisters in my space marine force and still get doctrines? GW is a trash company.

Why shouldn't Inquisitors ignore it? Sheesh calm down.

Because a rule that is designed to benefit mono codex play should only benefit MONO codex play.

That didn't answer the question.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Inquisitors have a specific rule preventing it per the leaks.

Ahhh I see. Cool! More rules that can be completely ignored. I suppose this also works with sisters as well? So I can take sisters in my space marine force and still get doctrines? GW is a trash company.

As far as we know no, sisters and marines make you lose doctrines.

That being said, the ability to ignore certain rules is pretty core to how armies interact with the rules, it gives them uniqueness. and is well within established design space.


The only problem i have is that inquisitors dont break doctrines but assassins do and i think thats dumb


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 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
I'm interested to see what all the bonuses will be for each specialist character from the new strats. We know chaplain gets an extra litany which I think is very strong and an auto take if you are bringing a chaplain. One of those next to my six pack centurions and hello +1BS and +1 to wound if they get both off.

My predictions are

Librarian: Knows one extra power. Denies one extra. Maybe +1 to cast, but I doubt it. (Not bad. Would take it against other psyker lists)
Reasoning being being able to cast a 3rd would over shadow the named characters who only get to manifest two.

Apothecary: heals d3+1 and revives on a 3+. (solid. Not bad.)

Techmarine: Heals a flat 3. (Meh. Not worth it by itself)

Ancient: Really hard to say, but I think either banner goes off a on 3 (Auto take), extra range by 3 inches (decent I guess) or ability to plant the banner and do something special.

Company champion: Buffs him up to chapter champion levels. (If you are bringing one you are probably gonna buff him up)

Librarian being able to pick a trait in addition would be very nice for my salamanders list, I would very much like to take 2 powers from fire disicipline, the tome of vel'cona, and might of heroes on the same guy.

My double WL trait techmarine also really likes healing flat 3 with t5 and a 4++(he likes hanging out next to brayarth ashmantle). Apothecary id be willing to try again, Shen's problem is that hes 75(6?) points and hes really not worth that much. 50 pts for that ability is alot easier to justify even if hes really cool. I dont think ancient is going to be in there or a company champion but im open to being wrong. Chaplains are going to be nuts though im not sure ill be able to stick them in my list

The moment Assassins don't break Doctrines is the moment I free up points for a Callidus to combine Stranglehold on top of that.

Rakdarian wrote:
I dont think ancient is going to be in there or a company champion but im open to being wrong. Chaplains are going to be nuts though im not sure ill be able to stick them in my list

Both the Champion and Ancient are listed in the table of contents shared on the WarCom article.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The moment Assassins don't break Doctrines is the moment I free up points for a Callidus to combine Stranglehold on top of that.

Don't forget Coteaz ability, too !

 Xenomancers wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Inquisitors have a specific rule preventing it per the leaks.

Ahhh I see. Cool! More rules that can be completely ignored. I suppose this also works with sisters as well? So I can take sisters in my space marine force and still get doctrines? GW is a trash company.

Like IG ignores it? Oh wait they don't. If you would bother to read fluff what the Inquisitors are you might understand why it makes completely sense they ignore it but not sisters.

I think the inquisitors look decent, but not auto-take. They’ve got the authority of the inquisition rule right. Slight shame they aren’t allowed to use any Primaris transports (they lack the Primaris keyword) but they’ll have uses.

I think Eisenhorn is probably the least useful. He’s basically not a particularly good beatstick. The pet daemonhost is fun but not actually very effective.

Cotaez is a great psyker, hampered by a not great discipline. But still makes a decent all round combatant and probably a decent use of his points.

Karamazov is a pretty effective fighter and comes with a proper gun, while on a very tough model with character protection. His LD11 bubble could be really handy if you were running an intercessor horde – though in that case you’re probably using an ancient to just be fearless.

I quite like Greyfax. Good denying, a little bit of character sniping and a great warlord trait. Anything that prevents the enemy from falling back is awesome. She’s unlikely to kill anything very much herself but locking a model in cc can be game-winning.

A couple of the strats are cool. Cyclonic torpedo has a pretty mad cost at 4CPs, but could be worth dropping on a Tau castle. Combined with something like the Orbital strike strat, an Impulsor and maybe the IF orbital strike warlord trait, lots of mortal wounds can be handed out if you see a lot of units in a blob. Otherwise getting CPs back if characters die nearby is a nice bonus and the warlord traits look worth having for 1CP.

Is this gonna be another Iron hands scenario where we have to wait for another fething week for Salamanders FAQ to come out. Im sick of waiting

 DoomMouse wrote:
Pretty sure he was targeting the drones directly? Sounded like it.

To be fair now I've looked a whirlwind with vengeance does kill very slightly more drones by targeting the riptide directly. (0.9 rather than that 0.8 presuming savior protocols are passed)

Yes, targeting the drones directly in this case.

I theorize that targeting the suit is always better when the wound roll is the same as for targeting the drones directly (because of the 1 in 6 fail on savior protocols). But in this case a vengeance launcher needs a 4 to wound a riptide vs. a 3 to wound the drones directly. But I haven't actually done the math.

The BT Doctrine is a bit underwhelming for competitive play but in a casual environnement, being able to override the whole wounding process seems pretty cool !
Especially with the litany giving them one more Attack. I can see a vanguard veteran having 2+1 for shock assault +2 for dual chainswords + 1 for the litany = 6 attack each guy easily.
Lots of 6s to fish !

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Inquisitors have a specific rule preventing it per the leaks.

Ahhh I see. Cool! More rules that can be completely ignored. I suppose this also works with sisters as well? So I can take sisters in my space marine force and still get doctrines? GW is a trash company.

Why shouldn't Inquisitors ignore it? Sheesh calm down.

Why should any unit affect the space marines doctrines? You'd think an inquisitor would actually be one of the most disruptive things to a space marine commander. A space marine commander will actually obey an inquisitors orders...most of the time.


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tneva82 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Inquisitors have a specific rule preventing it per the leaks.

Ahhh I see. Cool! More rules that can be completely ignored. I suppose this also works with sisters as well? So I can take sisters in my space marine force and still get doctrines? GW is a trash company.

Like IG ignores it? Oh wait they don't. If you would bother to read fluff what the Inquisitors are you might understand why it makes completely sense they ignore it but not sisters.

Sisters are the main partners of the inquisition...You are missing the point. This is basically confirmation that the mono codex bonus is going to be a joke. With lots of ways to include "special" allies.


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 Flavius Infernus wrote:

 DoomMouse wrote:
Pretty sure he was targeting the drones directly? Sounded like it.

To be fair now I've looked a whirlwind with vengeance does kill very slightly more drones by targeting the riptide directly. (0.9 rather than that 0.8 presuming savior protocols are passed)

Yes, targeting the drones directly in this case.

I theorize that targeting the suit is always better when the wound roll is the same as for targeting the drones directly (because of the 1 in 6 fail on savior protocols). But in this case a vengeance launcher needs a 4 to wound a riptide vs. a 3 to wound the drones directly. But I haven't actually done the math.

You shouldn't really change the way you would normally shoot the target without SP. Riptide has a 2+ save and will just eat every shot it can get a 2+ or 3+ save with that only does 1 wound if you shoot everything at the riptide. Basically shoot your HB at the drones and your lascannons at the riptide.

In a tournament I had to face a supremacy armor with like 40 drones. I had an army of knights. My casteallan shoot all its AP 3 or better guns at the supremacy and all the ap -1 at the drones. It was pretty effective. I got lucky once and my volcano lance got 2 shots through SP even - Plus a crusder also go a melta through. By turn 3 he had no drones left and a supremacy with like 7 wounds on him. Playing tau is so boring because what order you shoot things in is basically decided for you. It sucks.

 godardc wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The moment Assassins don't break Doctrines is the moment I free up points for a Callidus to combine Stranglehold on top of that.

Don't forget Coteaz ability, too !

What did Coteaz do again?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 godardc wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The moment Assassins don't break Doctrines is the moment I free up points for a Callidus to combine Stranglehold on top of that.

Don't forget Coteaz ability, too !

What did Coteaz do again?

It was like an Auspex Scan ability; he could designate a nearby unit to get an out-of-sequence free shot at a unit arriving from reserve.