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 Nevelon wrote:
After the initial split, how many successor chapters know their origins? Generally, they are formed from the tithes of geneseed, not a direct calving from a parent chapter. It seems to me that it would behove the HLoT to keep this secret to stop legion building, and help prevent split loyalties.

Is being an “unknown” the norm?

it'd make sense but apparently thats not the norm no. we don't really know how new marine chapters are founded, how leadership is decided etc. it'd be really nice to see a WD article detailing that out

I think there's also a pretty sincere difference between successors who know about and are raised with the culture of their progenitors, and ones who are far off the mark. Like, yeah, the Mortifactors are quite different from the Ultramarines, but their culture still cares that they're related. Whereas, say, the Lamenters may or may not care that much about Sanguinius' legacy or other descendants they're gene-kin with.

So it's entirely plausible that, say, the Storm Giants ARE successors, but don't really have much interest one way or another with the Promethean Cult. For their part, Salamanders might also not care that much, since the Cult seems to be pretty much intertwined with being of Nocturne. Since they are, unlikely most Astartes, a part and parcel of their source civilization and inclined to care about it more than as simply a recruitment ground, I can see them not being very fussed about what other chapters are up to.

Consider, also, that it's sometimes suggested that the literal black skin and glowing red eyes has something to do with the gene seed and it reacting to Nocturne's radiation. For all we know, their geneseed might mostly be unremarkable in other conditions, and so any number of successors wouldn't have any prominent physical links.

Longstrider wrote:

So it's entirely plausible that, say, the Storm Giants ARE successors, but don't really have much interest one way or another with the Promethean Cult. For their part, Salamanders might also not care that much, since the Cult seems to be pretty much intertwined with being of Nocturne. Since they are, unlikely most Astartes, a part and parcel of their source civilization and inclined to care about it more than as simply a recruitment ground, I can see them not being very fussed about what other chapters are up to.

Consider, also, that it's sometimes suggested that the literal black skin and glowing red eyes has something to do with the gene seed and it reacting to Nocturne's radiation. For all we know, their geneseed might mostly be unremarkable in other conditions, and so any number of successors wouldn't have any prominent physical links.

This makes the most sense. I think that Primaris whom had not been to Nocturne yet would lack the reactions to the irradiated planet. So when they get out of the Overlord or Thunderhawk planetside their natural protections would kick in and bam, coal skin and eyes flowing like forged metal.

it's also possiable salamander geneseed is more vunerable to various planetary radition imposing mutations thus they mutate more to adapt to their homeworld, hence sucessors are harder to pin down

BrianDavion wrote:
it's also possiable salamander geneseed is more vunerable to various planetary radition imposing mutations thus they mutate more to adapt to their homeworld, hence sucessors are harder to pin down

I could see that working. Black dragons homeworld could be similar in radiation.

Are there successor chapters based on Salamander geneseed? Very likely. But there are no confirmed/accepted successors. From a fluff standpoint, the excuse that they're too small never sat well with me, but there are other fluff reasons that totally jive. 10K years is more than enough time for even a single marine's worth of tithed geneseed to be used to make multiple chapters.

Salamanders rejecting successors makes a lot of sense. One of their big deals is self reliance, so I could completely buy them expecting any successors to stand on their own, without relying on the name and history of a chapter they aren't a part of. Basically, if you're a successor worthy of claiming Salamander heritage, you shouldn't feel the need to do so, and if you feel you have to claim that heritage to prop yourself up, you aren't worthy of it.

There's also the fact that they were exempted from splitting up into chapters, which has never officially been changed. So they're still technically a legion despite operating as a chapter. There may be a bit of stubborn denial in there, thinking "We were never ordered or obligated to have successors, so we don't."

Real world, it serves as a way to make the chapter and any (unofficial) successors unique in their own way. Ultramarines have their numerous copies, Imperial Fists have successors with storied and interconnected history, Dark Angels have a secret chain of command, Blood Angels successors have to deal with their curse in their own individual ways, and Salamanders are all small, distinct, and unrelated culturally.

If they truly don't have successors, they are one of the few first founding chapters/ legions that actually went along with the intent of codex reforms. To not have to many marines under one command.

The Dark Angels didn't break up, the Space Wolves flaunt it as much as they can and the Blood Angels and Imperial Fists had back up plans to reform as legion if things got bad enough.

The Ultramarines themselves also kinda flaunted the rules and that was before Bobby G got back and founded what amounts to a new legion under his command.

It's kinda ironic that the only founding chapters to obey the codex where those that were so banged up at the end of heresy that they barely could split them selves up, with the White Scars seeming to be kinda in the middle.

The Dark Angels didn't break up,

There’s never been any GW publication reporting that Azrael has ever appointed a Dark Angel to be master of the Angels of Absolution, or any other successor. There’s nothing to suggest that he could and everything to suggest that he can’t, and nor is there any suggestion that his predecessors can or did.

This the laziest and an uncompelling meme.

pelicaniforce wrote:

The Dark Angels didn't break up,

There’s never been any GW publication reporting that Azrael has ever appointed a Dark Angel to be master of the Angels of Absolution, or any other successor. There’s nothing to suggest that he could and everything to suggest that he can’t, and nor is there any suggestion that his predecessors can or did.

This the laziest and an uncompelling meme.

The dark angels are broken up. They just maintain closer ties to there successors and "could" be summoned to fight as a United force. Of course that could is very quiet.

The Unforgiven chapters are unified closer than other successors. The last wall protocol is similar but that a last ditch emergancy, enemies at a gate option. Vs a low-key tactical and strategic links.

An attempted assassination of Gulliman would be interesting. I mean the Assassin temples have been contracted to go after Primarchs before, you think that the records of those attempts would be still kept around in their vaults just in case. Also wasn’t there a raven guard marine would tried to snipe Fulgrim? I know he failed but why? Was it a clean shot or did he just wing him, or was there a force field? I get the feeling from the 30k boom where they tried to assassinate Horus that a lot of the worry about it being possible wasn’t the fact that Horus was a Demi-god it was getting past all of his security. Also let’s not forget that one time when a bunch of undercover marines with bolters almost took out Gulliman in his own palace during the Heresy. Assassination seems to definetly be possible, it’s just a matter of being in the right place and getting guilliman to be relatively vulnerable. If enough people around him were convinced the Imeprium would be better off without him, I could see it being a real threat.

 agurus1 wrote:
An attempted assassination of Gulliman would be interesting. I mean the Assassin temples have been contracted to go after Primarchs before, you think that the records of those attempts would be still kept around in their vaults just in case. Also wasn’t there a raven guard marine would tried to snipe Fulgrim? I know he failed but why? Was it a clean shot or did he just wing him, or was there a force field? I get the feeling from the 30k boom where they tried to assassinate Horus that a lot of the worry about it being possible wasn’t the fact that Horus was a Demi-god it was getting past all of his security. Also let’s not forget that one time when a bunch of undercover marines with bolters almost took out Gulliman in his own palace during the Heresy. Assassination seems to definetly be possible, it’s just a matter of being in the right place and getting guilliman to be relatively vulnerable. If enough people around him were convinced the Imeprium would be better off without him, I could see it being a real threat.

I believe it was Nycona Sharrowkin (sp?) who put a bullet through Fulgrim's skull. Can't remember how he survived it, probably Fabius Bile involved. The shot however, was bang on target.

pelicaniforce wrote:

The Dark Angels didn't break up,

There’s never been any GW publication reporting that Azrael has ever appointed a Dark Angel to be master of the Angels of Absolution, or any other successor. There’s nothing to suggest that he could and everything to suggest that he can’t, and nor is there any suggestion that his predecessors can or did.

This the laziest and an uncompelling meme.

Well like wolfy wolf, failbaddon and the idea oldcrons are metal nids it will never die.

 Reavsie wrote:

 agurus1 wrote:
An attempted assassination of Gulliman would be interesting. I mean the Assassin temples have been contracted to go after Primarchs before, you think that the records of those attempts would be still kept around in their vaults just in case. Also wasn’t there a raven guard marine would tried to snipe Fulgrim? I know he failed but why? Was it a clean shot or did he just wing him, or was there a force field? I get the feeling from the 30k boom where they tried to assassinate Horus that a lot of the worry about it being possible wasn’t the fact that Horus was a Demi-god it was getting past all of his security. Also let’s not forget that one time when a bunch of undercover marines with bolters almost took out Gulliman in his own palace during the Heresy. Assassination seems to definetly be possible, it’s just a matter of being in the right place and getting guilliman to be relatively vulnerable. If enough people around him were convinced the Imeprium would be better off without him, I could see it being a real threat.

I believe it was Nycona Sharrowkin (sp?) who put a bullet through Fulgrim's skull. Can't remember how he survived it, probably Fabius Bile involved. The shot however, was bang on target.

The very first combined assasian team was sent after Horus, it's obviously possible but difficult and one did kill kurze but he let them and even removed his guards.

It comes under possible but difficult and very much requires careful circumstances. If you catch them off guard and in armoured it may be possible. Catching one in armour and alert is always gonna fail.