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 Bellerophon wrote:

 Argive wrote:

 Sarigar wrote:
I'm of the opinion we will get most, if not all, new Aspect Warrior kits over the next 6-12 months. I've played them since Rogue Trader and still have and use the original metal versions from that era. I will definitely be in line buying updated versions, especially Swooping Hawks as they have been my favorite, aesthetically, since their original release. Jes Goodwin's designs have held up so well over nearly 30 years.

I hope so!

Would be nice to get a new Shining spears kit first...I think it would be the easiest to update.

All they have to do is do a new rider sprue as the bikes don't need updating IMO.

Yeah, I've been saying that for a while. Just an extra upgrade sprue to put in with some windrider sprues, just need some specific helmets, maybe torsos, laser lances, Exarch options and that's about it. Maybe one or two alternative decorative bits to stick the bikes with whatever room is left on the sprue.

I think it's one of the more needed aspect updates too, because I find it rather jarring that the shining spears still use the outdated jetbike models when we have improved jetbikes for the windriders.

I think Jes is more likely to design an entirely new frame, probably a new design of bike for the spears. When he showed the initial prototype he mentioned imagining different build of bike - like scout bikes for example. The harlequin bikes show this.

But yes I'd love proper Shining Spears - never liked the current kit.

So the next bit of psychic awakening dropped and obviously it is Drazhar:



https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/09/30/wield-the-living-swordgw-homepage-post-1/

I feel his rules are a bit stronger than Jain Zars. but we don't know what her gear is.

Also according to the new clip, the "phoenix will fall" suggests Jain zar will loose to drahzar..

Personally as an Eldar player obviously I take issue with that.

Also, the short story is all about hat Eldar going into battle to die feel good about that life choice rather than fight and live... because of ynnari malarkey.... ugh..

wow there is a lot going on with that helmet - not even sure what is happening with the center bit between the horns - armored top-knot maybe?

Gonna be pretty crap if this guy kills Jain

petrov27 wrote:
wow there is a lot going on with that helmet - not even sure what is happening with the center bit between the horns - armored top-knot maybe?

Gonna be pretty crap if this guy kills Jain

They are CWE soul stones, they are his trophies. It might be his old one on his helm as he might has been a CWE before, or its just one he is proud of who he killed.

Very beautiful model, at the same level to Lelith Hesperax or more. About the duel, I think that Phoenix lords are immortal, when they die, they can reawake again later.

God I was really, really looking forward to the release of drazhar, I love that character.

I am rather disappointed though....I like almost everything about that model, but the helmet is just terrible! Drazhar has always been described wearing an ancient, archaic armor that resembles the ones incubi nowadays wear.
This helmet just looks as if they took a klaivex helmet and bolted too many horns on....it's way too busy.

Tiberias wrote:
God I was really, really looking forward to the release of drazhar, I love that character.

I am rather disappointed though....I like almost everything about that model, but the helmet is just terrible! Drazhar has always been described wearing an ancient, archaic armor that resembles the ones incubi nowadays wear.
This helmet just looks as if they took a klaivex helmet and bolted too many horns on....it's way too busy.

Dude... his old helmet is terrible, its 4 ugly as feth horns, 1 is up, 1 is down, 2 on his neck. The new helm is 400% better.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Tiberias wrote:
God I was really, really looking forward to the release of drazhar, I love that character.

I am rather disappointed though....I like almost everything about that model, but the helmet is just terrible! Drazhar has always been described wearing an ancient, archaic armor that resembles the ones incubi nowadays wear.
This helmet just looks as if they took a klaivex helmet and bolted too many horns on....it's way too busy.

Dude... his old helmet is terrible, its 4 ugly as feth horns, 1 is up, 1 is down, 2 on his neck. The new helm is 400% better.

I never said his old helmet was good or better, just that this one is terrible. Also I am not sure which old model you mean that had 4 ugly horns, the old model had no horns at all on his helmet...

Also the new helmet seems out of proportion, at least in this picture, it looks a bit too big...which further enhances the problems of those huge, unnecessary horns on his helmet, especially the curved horns on the side of the helmet don't fit at all.

 Justycar wrote:
Very beautiful model, at the same level to Lelith Hesperax or more. About the duel, I think that Phoenix lords are immortal, when they die, they can reawake again later.

Spoiler:

Jain Zar died at the end of the Night lords trilogy, in fact, destroyed by Talos, the Soul hunter. And that is decades ago in the lore.

Yes, Phoenix Lords are functionally immortal. If another Eldar dons their armor, they "rise" once again.

It's unclear if Drazhar does the same.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

petrov27 wrote:
wow there is a lot going on with that helmet - not even sure what is happening with the center bit between the horns - armored top-knot maybe?

Gonna be pretty crap if this guy kills Jain

They are CWE soul stones, they are his trophies. It might be his old one on his helm as he might has been a CWE before, or its just one he is proud of who he killed.

He's refering to the top knot behind the horns, which I admit is the one part of the model I don't like but that can be cut off as easily as Yvraines headress was.

 Imateria wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

petrov27 wrote:
wow there is a lot going on with that helmet - not even sure what is happening with the center bit between the horns - armored top-knot maybe?

Gonna be pretty crap if this guy kills Jain

They are CWE soul stones, they are his trophies. It might be his old one on his helm as he might has been a CWE before, or its just one he is proud of who he killed.

He's refering to the top knot behind the horns, which I admit is the one part of the model I don't like but that can be cut off as easily as Yvraines headress was.

His helmet always went back to his hair a fair amount and he/incubi also has 2 Back things sticky out. Really nothing was changed to much ore added other than extra soul stones.

 Imateria wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

petrov27 wrote:
wow there is a lot going on with that helmet - not even sure what is happening with the center bit between the horns - armored top-knot maybe?

Gonna be pretty crap if this guy kills Jain

They are CWE soul stones, they are his trophies. It might be his old one on his helm as he might has been a CWE before, or its just one he is proud of who he killed.

He's refering to the top knot behind the horns, which I admit is the one part of the model I don't like but that can be cut off as easily as Yvraines headress was.

That tail-like topknot is a nod to the old Drazhar model and perhaps thematically like a scorpion's tail. The inclusion of a trophy Scorpion rune on one of the back spikes is yet another nudge nudge wink wink towards Drazhar being Arhra.

Bharring wrote:

Yes, Phoenix Lords are functionally immortal. If another Eldar dons their armor, they "rise" once again.

It's unclear if Drazhar does the same.

Gav Thorpe had a short story about Jain Zar. In it, she was resurrected (including recreation of weapons) from an Eldar touching a scrap of armor, so apparently you don't need an intact suit.

The first Dark Eldar Codex had a tiny blurb about the Dark Father of the Incubi, and how nobody knew if any challengers had ever succeeded in winning and taking his armor. Of course, being a Phoenix Lord, that would just lead to Arhra being reborn again and give the appearance of being undefeated.

Meh, but I'm not a Dark Eldar player, and never much cared for their aesthetic. At a glance it looks on par with normal Dark Eldar stuff, so...good?

 Elbows wrote:
Meh, but I'm not a Dark Eldar player, and never much cared for their aesthetic. At a glance it looks on par with normal Dark Eldar stuff, so...good?

Yeah looks very much like another incubi to me. I really liked the OOP metal drahzar though. Not sure what problem people had with it.

FYI Banshees and Jain zar are no longer being sold so we should expect pre-orders for shiny plastic banshees soon.

Yeah... 100% fail for me.

The new Jain Zar is *Jain Zar* - an ancient model brought to modern standards but obviously recognisable.

This is just... some guy. A champion Incubi perhaps - but not Drazar. Perhaps the mantis blades were always a bit much - in a sort of "you are taking "dark striking scorpions to a silly place" - but they were iconic (and imo should have informed Incubi, as a Dark Aspect, rather than "Dark Eldar wot have power glaives lol" they have become.)

Sure you can go "you wait a decade for demiklaives and then two (four?) turn up at once" - but... eh. Its an unusual fail for me.

kingheff wrote:

Spoiler:

They do love doing the eldar down, how the hell did a space marine sergeant stand toe to toe with Jain zar long enough to pull the grenade trick?

 Elbows wrote:
Meh, but I'm not a Dark Eldar player, and never much cared for their aesthetic. At a glance it looks on par with normal Dark Eldar stuff, so...good?

Agreed. He looks okay I guess, but then I'm not into DE.

Surprised about how many people don't like it; Drazhar was always associated with Incubi, but never looked like one. Now he does, and that's appropriate, because it matches the background.

Furthermore, the old model had no abdomen. Between his hips and his ribs, there was nothing but a spine. Seriously- the diameter of his thigh is thicker than the diameter of his abdomen. And yeah, one horn up and one down?

Anyway, beauty is in the eye of the beholder- if you like the old and Ilike the new, neither of us will ever change the other's mind, and that's okay.

I'm just surprised- I can't actually imagine anyone liking the old model. My reaction would be similar if someone told me they liked the old plastic kabalites from the original 40k box set better than the new ones.

What did we all expect in terms of this scrap?

If a functionally immortal character is ever up against another character that isn't functionally immortal there's only going to be one winner. It's why the Phoenix Lords have become Marine playthings.

If both Draz and Jain are functionally immortal (I don't know enough about the DE lore) I suspect both with die, preferably because Vect decides to nuke them as they have a duel screaming "AAAaaaAAAggeeeeNNNTTTssss OOooFFff VEECCCTTT BIZNIZ!!!!!111one".

PenitentJake wrote:
Surprised about how many people don't like it; Drazhar was always associated with Incubi, but never looked like one. Now he does, and that's appropriate, because it matches the background.

Furthermore, the old model had no abdomen. Between his hips and his ribs, there was nothing but a spine. Seriously- the diameter of his thigh is thicker than the diameter of his abdomen. And yeah, one horn up and one down?

Anyway, beauty is in the eye of the beholder- if you like the old and Ilike the new, neither of us will ever change the other's mind, and that's okay.

I'm just surprised- I can't actually imagine anyone liking the old model. My reaction would be similar if someone told me they liked the old plastic kabalites from the original 40k box set better than the new ones.

The old model was OK at best but since the majority of the old 3rd ed Dark Eldar army was absolutely fugly he stood out as one of the better models of the time. It was very weird that he didn't get an updated model when the rest of the army did 10 years ago, especially as there was artwork in that 5th ed codex that showed him looking completely different to the model and more like the current Incubi. Starbgely this new model looks a little different to that artwork but still similar to Incubi, which makes sense since all Phoenix Lords look pretty similar to their Aspect Warriors anyway.

He just doesn't look that dangerous. I expect from DE to look sadistic or grotesque. Maybe more elongated limbs and sharp edges.

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/d/d9/Drazhar_Art.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQFFA9lPPytz2jFagfPc7WcfqdTkav_bzmeSfEqOZ9QgSuLjAr9
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/b/b6/Drazhar_-_Master_of_Blades.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120821230002

In the Jain vs Drazhar picture, there is an incubi to upper left stepping from the darkness saluting with a blade. He looks more threatening.

PenitentJake wrote:
Surprised about how many people don't like it; Drazhar was always associated with Incubi, but never looked like one. Now he does, and that's appropriate, because it matches the background.

I'm just surprised- I can't actually imagine anyone liking the old model. My reaction would be similar if someone told me they liked the old plastic kabalites from the original 40k box set better than the new ones.

There are a few scattered mentions of Drazhar in the fluff - but long before that, there was the 3rd ed art and the model.
And I can understand people not liking the model - but for me at least when it came out in 2000 it was great even if it never really fit with other DE models. Perhaps especially because of that fact - after all so much of the original DE release was ugly as sin.

Models have a certain power in themselves - especially when they are so old.

There isn't any real reason Calgar has to be all fists of power - I mean "yeah but the fluff tho" - he could just have left his gauntlets at home. But that 1993 model is iconic, like a lot of the other classic 2nd ed special characters. Jain Zar is a call back that works for me. This by contrast just feels like a generic Incubi character. They could have made a new character if that's the design they wanted to go down.

Well, beautiful Aeldari models are on the way.
I'd like to have new Grotesques with a cheaper price per model.

I don't mind either of them although drazhar is in a fairly neutral pose.

In terms of ornateness, Jain Zar only has a sleeve and shin guards to distinguish her from normal banshees - oh and a harlequin grimace face.

I don't think she looks particularly flashy. I think people are overwhelmed by her hair which while large is the plainest part of her.


And IMO the Phoenix lords should all be huge, they're far beyond the need for a normal mortal frame and they're bursting with psychic energy.


I Think that they'll kill Jain Zar one more time and then resurrect her as a Phoenix lord of ynnead....

Hellebore wrote:
I don't mind either of them although drazhar is in a fairly neutral pose.

In terms of ornateness, Jain Zar only has a sleeve and shin guards to distinguish her from normal banshees - oh and a harlequin grimace face.

I don't think she looks particularly flashy. I think people are overwhelmed by her hair which while large is the plainest part of her.


And IMO the Phoenix lords should all be huge, they're far beyond the need for a normal mortal frame and they're bursting with psychic energy.


I Think that they'll kill Jain Zar one more time and then resurrect her as a Phoenix lord of ynnead....

Yeah I think both models look great- Drazhar looks like a bigger more involved incubi - which he is, he'll look great alongside the new incubi models, love that updated design.

I agree with you on Jain Zar- die again and be reborn as Ynnari Phoenix Lord, Yvraine died and was brought back by Ynnead in one of the novels so it fits. Interested to see where the fluff goes with all this, I'm sort of hoping the Ynnead story line leads to the eldar reclaiming more of the ancient power [i.e 2nd Eldar! ]

 silverstu wrote:

Hellebore wrote:
I don't mind either of them although drazhar is in a fairly neutral pose.

In terms of ornateness, Jain Zar only has a sleeve and shin guards to distinguish her from normal banshees - oh and a harlequin grimace face.

I don't think she looks particularly flashy. I think people are overwhelmed by her hair which while large is the plainest part of her.


And IMO the Phoenix lords should all be huge, they're far beyond the need for a normal mortal frame and they're bursting with psychic energy.


I Think that they'll kill Jain Zar one more time and then resurrect her as a Phoenix lord of ynnead....

Yeah I think both models look great- Drazhar looks like a bigger more involved incubi - which he is, he'll look great alongside the new incubi models, love that updated design.

I agree with you on Jain Zar- die again and be reborn as Ynnari Phoenix Lord, Yvraine died and was brought back by Ynnead in one of the novels so it fits. Interested to see where the fluff goes with all this, I'm sort of hoping the Ynnead story line leads to the eldar reclaiming more of the ancient power [i.e 2nd Eldar! ]

Hmm, i through Draznar was supposed to be taller and not just striking pose on 3 inch rock
This high rock really annoy me, since i`ll have to stick something heavy to be sure the model will flip often.

Would not using the scenic base be considered "modelling for advantage"?

Love the new Drazhar otherwise.

 harlokin wrote:
Would not using the scenic base be considered "modelling for advantage"?

Love the new Drazhar otherwise.

I wouldn't hold it against my opponent if they get rid of a disadvantage that had no reason to exist in the first place. I really hope GW will adopt something like the Silhouette System from Infinity at some point to finally bury this debate.

 harlokin wrote:
Would not using the scenic base be considered "modelling for advantage"?

Love the new Drazhar otherwise.

How is the scenic base an advantage exactly? He doesnt have any shooting afaik so its not helping him draw LOS to anything.