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beast_gts wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
What is the Ares Gunship? I've never see that model....sounds like a beast with the Magna cannon....wow.

This -

Spoiler:

My very first thought was "That looks like something from Flash Gordon".

The Custodes in general have a strong Flash Gordon vibe.

Love it though

Karol wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
Good news for all.

Some changes that stood out at a glance:

-Sagittarum are now troops.
-Caladius tank went up 10 points

Here's a link: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/PDF/fw_warscrolls/40K_Adeptus_Custodes_FW_Datasheets_Ares.pdf

A unit of aquilon custodians has more wounds, then a same power points costed unit of termintors, hits on +2 in melee and shoting, are str 5 on main stats. Those are some really powerful units. Ton of options too. weapons seem brutal too 2 shots with str 5 ap 3 and D3, is crazy good beats out even 5 stormbolters with str 5 ap1.

Well at least they don't have an invunerable save, so there is that, and can't stop psychic powers.

I assume we're talking about the GK troop termies here? I'll use Halberds and Talons as those seem like the most analogous weapons.

3x Aquilons (Talons+SBs): 15A all the time at S6 Ap-2 D1, WS2+.
12A at range, S6 Ap-1 D1 at BS2+.
W12 2+ 5++.
Deep Strike.
Not troops.
235pts.

5x GK termies (Halberds+SBs).
16A when on the first round, 11A on not the first round, S6 Ap-2 D2, WS3+.
20A at range, S5 Ap-1 D1 at BS3+.
W10 2+ 5++
Deep Strike.
Troops.
205pts.

The GK termies deal nearly twice as much damage in melee if their target is not single-wound, and about 1/10th less if their target is single wound. They cost 15% less. They deny a psychic power and can cast a power or put out a single MW. They deal very slightly (6%) more damage at range, not accounting for a minismite. They are 1/6 less durable.

TBH, neither looks like a particularly great unit, but overall I would rather have the GK terminators. The problem with both is how much of their damage relies on being in melee, and how unreliable that is (I have no idea whether Custodes have any charge boosters, and GK just have a single reroll WL trait). Both suffer a weakness to D2 weaponry.

The shift in strength favoring the aquilons will make a difference very rarely, since most vehicles are T7 and even against T5 or T6 the termiantors do much more damage on the charge since they're damage D3. The biggest difference is vs a target like GEQ, which is a losing proposition for either unit to be charging no matter how you slice it.

The changes to the Aquilons makes the reg terminators look better. They still wound tanks on a 4+ in melee, deal great damage, and have good anti-infantry potential.

I see changes coming to regular terminators too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:

Karol wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
Good news for all.

Some changes that stood out at a glance:

-Sagittarum are now troops.
-Caladius tank went up 10 points

Here's a link: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/PDF/fw_warscrolls/40K_Adeptus_Custodes_FW_Datasheets_Ares.pdf

A unit of aquilon custodians has more wounds, then a same power points costed unit of termintors, hits on +2 in melee and shoting, are str 5 on main stats. Those are some really powerful units. Ton of options too. weapons seem brutal too 2 shots with str 5 ap 3 and D3, is crazy good beats out even 5 stormbolters with str 5 ap1.

Well at least they don't have an invunerable save, so there is that, and can't stop psychic powers.

I assume we're talking about the GK troop termies here? I'll use Halberds and Talons as those seem like the most analogous weapons.

3x Aquilons (Talons+SBs): 15A all the time at S6 Ap-2 D1, WS2+.
12A at range, S6 Ap-1 D1 at BS2+.
W12 2+ 5++.
Deep Strike.
Not troops.
235pts.

5x GK termies (Halberds+SBs).
16A when on the first round, 11A on not the first round, S6 Ap-2 D2, WS3+.
20A at range, S5 Ap-1 D1 at BS3+.
W10 2+ 5++
Deep Strike.
Troops.
205pts.

The GK termies deal nearly twice as much damage in melee if their target is not single-wound, and about 1/10th less if their target is single wound. They cost 15% less. They deny a psychic power and can cast a power or put out a single MW. They deal very slightly (6%) more damage at range, not accounting for a minismite. They are 1/6 less durable.

TBH, neither looks like a particularly great unit, but overall I would rather have the GK terminators. The problem with both is how much of their damage relies on being in melee, and how unreliable that is (I have no idea whether Custodes have any charge boosters, and GK just have a single reroll WL trait). Both suffer a weakness to D2 weaponry.

The shift in strength favoring the aquilons will make a difference very rarely, since most vehicles are T7 and even against T5 or T6 the termiantors do much more damage on the charge since they're damage D3. The biggest difference is vs a target like GEQ, which is a losing proposition for either unit to be charging no matter how you slice it.

Not to be mean, but no one in their right mind take Aquilons with Talons. They go Powerfist or go home. Also, he was referring to the regular Custodes Terminators I think? Also, the custodes get free deep striking.

Karol wrote:

A unit of aquilon custodians has more wounds, then a same power points costed unit of termintors, hits on +2 in melee and shoting, are str 5 on main stats. Those are some really powerful units. Ton of options too. weapons seem brutal too 2 shots with str 5 ap 3 and D3, is crazy good beats out even 5 stormbolters with str 5 ap1.

Well at least they don't have an invunerable save, so there is that, and can't stop psychic powers.

Power points is a bad way to go about that. S5 AP3 3D is a great profile until you realize it's only two shots and not great at killing softer targets, is only 18", and four times the cost.

294 points for 3 guys with the D3 bolters; 249 with S5 stormbolters.

That's between 7 and 9 terminators, which seems relatively fair given some of the new marine rules.

What changes were made to the Aquilons? Did I miss something?

Each Aquilon gets:

4x S12 attacks, D3 damage, AP3 I believe. And they also get a 4++ for being in an all Custodes unit. Seriously, look them up. They are beastly. Especially with Firepikes on the DS. Watch your opponent cry tears at 3d6 S6 Heavy flamer shooting on the deepstrike, followed by the charge, and 12 S12 attacks.

 Vaktathi wrote:
What changes were made to the Aquilons? Did I miss something?

Base cost up a smidge, the twin Adrathite doesnt self-immolate the bearer. Thats about it. Karol's just on his usual GK tear.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Each Aquilon gets:

4x S12 attacks, D3 damage, AP3 I believe. And they also get a 4++ for being in an all Custodes unit. Seriously, look them up. They are beastly. Especially with Firepikes on the DS. Watch your opponent cry tears at 3d6 S6 Heavy flamer shooting on the deepstrike, followed by the charge, and 12 S12 attacks.

Looks like S10 AP-4 to me.

You can also follow them in with a Vexilla Imperius (or drop them in with Vexilla Teleport Homer for a better charge) and get 5A/model.

They are 93pts/model in firepike/fist spec, though.

Ah ok, glad they fixed the Adrathite issue, always like the unit.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Each Aquilon gets:

4x S12 attacks, D3 damage, AP3 I believe. And they also get a 4++ for being in an all Custodes unit. Seriously, look them up. They are beastly. Especially with Firepikes on the DS. Watch your opponent cry tears at 3d6 S6 Heavy flamer shooting on the deepstrike, followed by the charge, and 12 S12 attacks.

Looks like S10 AP-4 to me.

You can also follow them in with a Vexilla Imperius (or drop them in with Vexilla Teleport Homer for a better charge) and get 5A/model.

They are 93pts/model in firepike/fist spec, though.

Though I find most lists struggle to fit an Imperius. The Magnifica is higher priority.

I know a guy who plans lists around using two Vexilla and a Terminator squad in a Vanguard detachment to avoid needing to spend too many points on detachment minimums.

My favorite murderteam is Trajan, a Vexhilla in Terminator Armor, and 3 Terminators with axes. It's about 500pts, and it boast S8/10 melee, fight twice, re-rolls on wounds, hit, and charges, -1 to hit by ranged, and a 4++ across the board. The shooting is S5 Assault 3, or S4 RF2, but it's got a ton of potential once stuck in. No one likes to see Custodes in the backfield.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The changes to the Aquilons makes the reg terminators look better. They still wound tanks on a 4+ in melee, deal great damage, and have good anti-infantry potential.

I see changes coming to regular terminators too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:

Karol wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
Good news for all.

Some changes that stood out at a glance:

-Sagittarum are now troops.
-Caladius tank went up 10 points

Here's a link: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/PDF/fw_warscrolls/40K_Adeptus_Custodes_FW_Datasheets_Ares.pdf

A unit of aquilon custodians has more wounds, then a same power points costed unit of termintors, hits on +2 in melee and shoting, are str 5 on main stats. Those are some really powerful units. Ton of options too. weapons seem brutal too 2 shots with str 5 ap 3 and D3, is crazy good beats out even 5 stormbolters with str 5 ap1.

Well at least they don't have an invunerable save, so there is that, and can't stop psychic powers.

I assume we're talking about the GK troop termies here? I'll use Halberds and Talons as those seem like the most analogous weapons.

3x Aquilons (Talons+SBs): 15A all the time at S6 Ap-2 D1, WS2+.
12A at range, S6 Ap-1 D1 at BS2+.
W12 2+ 5++.
Deep Strike.
Not troops.
235pts.

5x GK termies (Halberds+SBs).
16A when on the first round, 11A on not the first round, S6 Ap-2 D2, WS3+.
20A at range, S5 Ap-1 D1 at BS3+.
W10 2+ 5++
Deep Strike.
Troops.
205pts.

The GK termies deal nearly twice as much damage in melee if their target is not single-wound, and about 1/10th less if their target is single wound. They cost 15% less. They deny a psychic power and can cast a power or put out a single MW. They deal very slightly (6%) more damage at range, not accounting for a minismite. They are 1/6 less durable.

TBH, neither looks like a particularly great unit, but overall I would rather have the GK terminators. The problem with both is how much of their damage relies on being in melee, and how unreliable that is (I have no idea whether Custodes have any charge boosters, and GK just have a single reroll WL trait). Both suffer a weakness to D2 weaponry.

The shift in strength favoring the aquilons will make a difference very rarely, since most vehicles are T7 and even against T5 or T6 the termiantors do much more damage on the charge since they're damage D3. The biggest difference is vs a target like GEQ, which is a losing proposition for either unit to be charging no matter how you slice it.

Not to be mean, but no one in their right mind take Aquilons with Talons. They go Powerfist or go home. Also, he was referring to the regular Custodes Terminators I think? Also, the custodes get free deep striking.

I promise that Karol is always comparing whatever it is he's talking about to Grey Knights.

I only chose talons because they seemed the most analogous to the GK power weapons.

The Caladius still looks good, but I wonder if it needed a points increase AND a nerf. I'd have been fine with them just making the gun S7 at it's normal cost, and then see how that performs for a while. Vs T8 vehicles it's gone from wounding 50% of the time to 33% of the time, which is fairly major.

Did Sags always have a straight D3 value on their Laser profile?

 Horst wrote:
The Caladius still looks good, but I wonder if it needed a points increase AND a nerf. I'd have been fine with them just making the gun S7 at it's normal cost, and then see how that performs for a while. Vs T8 vehicles it's gone from wounding 50% of the time to 33% of the time, which is fairly major.

I guess, but honestly 10 pts isn't going to make any difference.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Did Sags always have a straight D3 value on their Laser profile?

All the adrasite weapons did. It's supposed to be a combi-weapon where the adrasite component is the same thing as on the adrasite spear, but for some reason it's only 15" range...

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Did Sags always have a straight D3 value on their Laser profile?

All the adrasite weapons did. It's supposed to be a combi-weapon where the adrasite component is the same thing as on the adrasite spear, but for some reason it's only 15" range...

I couldn't remember if the first iteration was actually D3 or DD3.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Did Sags always have a straight D3 value on their Laser profile?

All the adrasite weapons did. It's supposed to be a combi-weapon where the adrasite component is the same thing as on the adrasite spear, but for some reason it's only 15" range...

I couldn't remember if the first iteration was actually D3 or DD3.

It should have been D3 before, not a flat 3 damage.

 Grimskul wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Did Sags always have a straight D3 value on their Laser profile?

All the adrasite weapons did. It's supposed to be a combi-weapon where the adrasite component is the same thing as on the adrasite spear, but for some reason it's only 15" range...

I couldn't remember if the first iteration was actually D3 or DD3.

It should have been D3 before, not a flat 3 damage.

So that's actually a remarkable improvement. Yeah the range kinda sucks, but those shots will always hit at least.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Karol wrote:

A unit of aquilon custodians has more wounds, then a same power points costed unit of termintors, hits on +2 in melee and shoting, are str 5 on main stats. Those are some really powerful units. Ton of options too. weapons seem brutal too 2 shots with str 5 ap 3 and D3, is crazy good beats out even 5 stormbolters with str 5 ap1.

Well at least they don't have an invunerable save, so there is that, and can't stop psychic powers.

Power points is a bad way to go about that. S5 AP3 3D is a great profile until you realize it's only two shots and not great at killing softer targets, is only 18", and four times the cost.

294 points for 3 guys with the D3 bolters; 249 with S5 stormbolters.

That's between 7 and 9 terminators, which seems relatively fair given some of the new marine rules.

not GK termintors, specially if you take a heavy weapon for them, which you should not do. To me the D3 on the weapons is huge, specially with a -3sv mod on top of it all. Maybe it is overcosted comparing to other faction stuff, but having 9 shots that could do 9-10D to a vehicle is big, and having +2 to hit is also nice when you have to shot at those minus to hit targets. Again maybe they aren't the best thing in the world, but all the custodes unit seem cheap and powerful to me. Some are ven hard to compare, because we GK don't get any dreadnoughts that aren't stock codex versions.