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 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
No it's the ork!

what race is most associated with warhammer 40k in the mind of your average person?

thats what iconic means. not "the one with the most history" not "my favorite" but the one most closely associated with the IP.

BrianDavion wrote:
what race is most associated with warhammer 40k in the mind of your average person?

Orks. If you show them a space marines, they will ask if you are talking about Starcraft instead. Or maybe Halo, with the new primaris.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
what race is most associated with warhammer 40k in the mind of your average person?

Orks. If you show them a space marines, they will ask if you are talking about Starcraft instead. Or maybe Halo, with the new primaris.

And if you show them an Ork they think it's fething warcraft. anyway no sense derailing this tread I priopose we agree to disagree.

BrianDavion wrote:
And if you show them an Ork they think it's fething warcraft.

Looks like Warcraft?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Eldar should not dominate. No faction should.

I'd agree but that's not how things have been even in 8th.

Frankly, it would be nice to see some love for the Eldar factions, given their current states:
- Corsairs basically no longer exist as an army.
- Dark Eldar haven't had a new unit since 2011, yet in the meantime something like 11 HQs (including bike and skyboard options, mini-Archons and Haemonculi, and 5 special characters) and 3 Elite choices have been gradually stripped out of their codex. Not to mention masses of wargear - including wargear that actually had models (like the Soul Trap).
- Harlequins have been fleshed out a bit but are still an incredibly threadbare army.
- Ynnari are still a complete mess with a horribly over-complicated army-building mechanic, tied around the forced inclusion of 3 special characters and with a convoluted mass of changes and exceptions, on top of basically being nerfed into the ground. It's a shame because they have so flavourful Warlord Traits, Artefacts and Psychic Powers, but even building an army with them is an obnoxious task.
- Craftworld Eldar are probably the only Eldar faction that don't need new units, though they could definitely do with some updated kits.


(Not saying that other armies don't deserve attention. Just that some love for the Eldar - and especially the non-Craftworld factions - wouldn't be unjustified.)

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Eldar should not dominate. No faction should.

I'd agree but that's not how things have been even in 8th.

It hasn't but I suspect that GW have received a fair bit of feedback with people dissatisfied of the focus on pnr faction over others, this campaign representing a response to that feed back.

As to new models for the different Eldar factions, they haven't done badly from the releases over the last decade or so. Dark Eldar have mostly plastic models, Harlequins are all plastic and incredibly new, Craftworld need some love for their aspects but many of their other, older kits still look great (Hyper, Falcon for example) and I don't believe Ynnari was supposed to be anything but a few characters rather than an entire new force.

Every faction has old models that need updating. The focus should be split. And GW have made it incredibly clear that the focus of this campaign will be split between every faction. Not just one.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

It hasn't but I suspect that GW have received a fair bit of feedback with people dissatisfied of the focus on pnr faction over others, this campaign representing a response to that feed back.

I'l believe that when I see it.

My honest opinion is that this campaign will just be a load more stuff for SMs and Chaos and maybe a Stratagem each for the other factions so that they have technically got new rules.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

As to new models for the different Eldar factions, they haven't done badly from the releases over the last decade or so.

That's not even remotely true.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Dark Eldar have mostly plastic models

By "mostly" you mean that 16 (barely half) of the 30 models we've got left are plastic. The other 14 are resin.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Every faction has old models that need updating.

But this is the point I made earlier - it's not just about updating models.

Dark Eldar has *lost* the following units:
- Archon with Skyboard
- Archon with Jetbike
- Haemonculus with Skyboard
- Haemonculus with Jetbike
- Dracon
- Haemonculus Ancient
- Vect
- Lady Malys
- Duke Sliscus
- Kheradruakh the Decapitator
- Asdrubael Vect

These aren't just units with Resin models. They're not even units confined to the Index. They're units that have been removed entirely. Gone. Kaput. If you include the removal of Harlequins (yes, they got their own codex but it's still a loss for the DE one), Trueborn and Bloodbrides then Dark Eldar have literally lost a 3rd of their units.

They have in no way "done well" from recent releases. Literally every codex since 5th has removed units and added absolutely nothing in return.

Was the Dracon a cheap Archon? Literally yesterday I was talking to a friend about how that's exactly the kind of thing DE need.

pm713 wrote:
Was the Dracon a cheap Archon? Literally yesterday I was talking to a friend about how that's exactly the kind of thing DE need.

Yep. But even having an actual model wasn't enough to save him from deletion.

If the banshees are as big (tall) as the ranger in BSF they will look really weird with the rest of the ancient plastic and resin.
But an army of banshees, jetbikes and wraiths would probably look OK. And that makes sense with the start collecting wraiths deal.

 Flinty wrote:
I think that would make a lot of people incandescent with rage. I mean just look at the hate put there for the new marine models, and GW has deliberately not retired the older marines. If they remove a load of really cool special characters from the narrative at a stroke I think there would be a lot of unhappiness in the existing player base.

Also they put out a special commisar in plastic, and if there is anything more niche than that it's hard to say.

Marines ALWAYS get special treatment - they don't need to remove the characters from the narative just the codexes - look at the gutting of Dark Eldar - now imagine that happening to any one of the myriad Marines dexes.

 Fayric wrote:
If the banshees are as big (tall) as the ranger in BSF they will look really weird with the rest of the ancient plastic and resin.
But an army of banshees, jetbikes and wraiths would probably look OK. And that makes sense with the start collecting wraiths deal.

I wonder if they'll get a new datasheet.

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

It hasn't but I suspect that GW have received a fair bit of feedback with people dissatisfied of the focus on pnr faction over others, this campaign representing a response to that feed back.

I'l believe that when I see it.

My honest opinion is that this campaign will just be a load more stuff for SMs and Chaos and maybe a Stratagem each for the other factions so that they have technically got new rules.

Well believe it. They have literally announced new plastic banshees as part of this campaign.

Again, other factions have lost units - I can give you a similar list for Orks. Particularly given the legacy announcement.

As I have stated - regardless of what you want or believe they need, Dark Eldar (nor any other Eldar faction) are not the focus of this campaign. Adjust your expectations accordingly.

I was kinda taken aback when I realised that all apart from one of the Dark Eldar's elite units haven't had a plastic kit yet.

Grotesques, Incubi, Beastmasters, Mandrakes, Lhamians, Ssylth, Medusae.

The only one bizarrely that has a plastic model is the Ur-ghul.

Craftworlds have it just as bad if not worse. It's baffling just how far behind they both armies are.

When was the last time a non wraith unit was released in plastic for Craftworld Eldar? When the jetbikes came out? (which I still see as a missed opportunity to dual kit with Shining Spears).

Anyway fingers crossed we get more info on what is in store for players on Monday.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Well believe it. They have literally announced new plastic banshees as part of this campaign.

You'll forgive me if my jaw fails to drop.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Again, other factions have lost units - I can give you a similar list for Orks. Particularly given the legacy announcement.

I'm aware that other factions have lost units. I can't think of any other faction, however, that has lost anything like the number of units DE has lost *and* which has also received absolutely no new units in the last 8 years.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

As I have stated - regardless of what you want or believe they need, Dark Eldar (nor any other Eldar faction) are not the focus of this campaign.

So . . . exactly what I said then?

 DivineVisitor wrote:
When was the last time a non wraith unit was released in plastic for Craftworld Eldar? When the jetbikes came out? (which I still see as a missed opportunity to dual kit with Shining Spears).

Anyway fingers crossed we get more info on what is in store for players on Monday.

Plastic Eldrad or maybe the Spiritseer. Not sure to be honest.

Both armies have had so little. Its kinda absurd.
They are missing plastic models of most of their core units.

Eldar: Banshees, Fire Dragons, Dark Reapers, Warp Spiders, Hawks, Spears, Scorpions

Dark Eldar : Incubi, Mandrakes, Grotesques, Beastmasters (and their beasts)

So, so much of these armies left in the past. While Space Marines are getting a new plastic army to replace their old complete plastic army. Its hard to not be a little....salty.

But still, must stay postitive, Banshees are on the way. Perhaps the times are changing.

I would do “things” for GW employees if they released plastic Shining Spears. Always loved the idea of laser lance elves on jet bikes.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
And if you show them an Ork they think it's fething warcraft.

Spoiler:

Looks like Warcraft?

You know, the way Warcraft has been going, yes! That definitely looks like Warcraft.

 dan2026 wrote:

 DivineVisitor wrote:
When was the last time a non wraith unit was released in plastic for Craftworld Eldar? When the jetbikes came out? (which I still see as a missed opportunity to dual kit with Shining Spears).

Anyway fingers crossed we get more info on what is in store for players on Monday.

Plastic Eldrad or maybe the Spiritseer. Not sure to be honest.

Spiritseer was the most recent...and it released almost three months earlier than the Space Marine Lieutenant that it came in "Wake the Dead" with.
Eldrad came out in 7th, as part of the buildup to Gathering Storm.

Both armies have had so little. Its kinda absurd.
They are missing plastic models of most of their core units.

Eldar: Banshees, Fire Dragons, Dark Reapers, Warp Spiders, Hawks, Spears, Scorpions

Storm Guardians and Rangers are arguably more "core" than Aspect Warriors...but yeah.

Dark Eldar : Incubi, Mandrakes, Grotesques, Beastmasters (and their beasts)

I'm fully expecting that when/if we get a plastic "Beastmaster"? It will be in a box with a set of beasts.

So, so much of these armies left in the past. While Space Marines are getting a new plastic army to replace their old complete plastic army. Its hard to not be a little....salty.

I feel like using Drukhari, who saw a complete range redesign when all the models(literally barring one: Drazhar) that are currently available went on sale, is a bit disingenuous.

But still, must stay postitive, Banshees are on the way. Perhaps the times are changing.

That's how I'm having to be about the missing Vanguard stuff for Primaris.

Aww, all the units from the second full scale all plastic primaris army are a month late? How terrible, all the non-SM factions will play you a sad song on a tiny violin.

the_scotsman wrote:
Aww, all the units from the second full scale all plastic primaris army are a month late? How terrible, all the non-SM factions will play you a sad song on a tiny violin.

This is something that I was originally going to also post about.
Rather than "Cool! Everyone's getting something!", it's become nothing but "You're Space Marines, you don't get to be annoyed if you don't get things released in a reasonable timeframe!". Yeah, most of us get that other factions are waiting for things. It doesn't change that this release has been dragged out in a weird manner--and that's not even accounting for the expansion books.

Hopefully, this Psychic Awakening doesn't get dragged out like the Marine release has.

Guys this thread is to discuss psychic awakening and news/ rumours/theories related to that. Let's save the 'we hate all SM releases' or 'my xeno army deserves the most stuff because x' discussions for another thread huh?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Guys this thread is to discuss psychic awakening and news/ rumours/theories related to that. Let's save the 'we hate all SM releases' or 'my xeno army deserves the most stuff because x' discussions for another thread huh?

I assumed we'd just run out of rumours, since GW's leaks thus far basically amount to something between bugger and all.

 Kanluwen wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Aww, all the units from the second full scale all plastic primaris army are a month late? How terrible, all the non-SM factions will play you a sad song on a tiny violin.

This is something that I was originally going to also post about.
Rather than "Cool! Everyone's getting something!", it's become nothing but "You're Space Marines, you don't get to be annoyed if you don't get things released in a reasonable timeframe!".

Hopefully, this Psychic Awakening doesn't get dragged out like the Marine release has.

The reason it's become that is quite simply that the idea waiting a few months for something is an "unreasonable timeframe" is laughable in the broader context of GW releases, and demonstrates that some Marine players have allowed their army's preferential treatment over the years to warp their perspective on what constitutes reasonable.

We're talking about people hoping that Eldar get replacements for models that have been around for decades, that a measly handful of boxes be dedicated to that, and some Marine players are blubbing about the second full multi-kit release for their second all-plastic army being less than immediate? I'd say "welcome to playing every other faction for the last twenty years", but even that wouldn't be accurate since most of them wouldn't even have dreamt of having not only their whole range in plastic but a second range as well, on top of all the special units for variant subfactions.

The closest to Marines are Guard who have two themed plastic infantry ranges, comprising six boxes total, and themselves being 15-20 years old. The idea Marines are hard done by is sheer comedy.

 Flinty wrote:
Exactly. And if anything the Eldar are the most iconic 40k race. The plot develop.ent and effort into the background and concept are probably the most advanced of any, possibly even the Imperium.

I have to say that the Eldar are part of the big three for 40K; Space Marines, Eldar and Orks. Space Marines are probably the most well known thanks to Space Crusade(with Heroquest, they shot GW to super-stardom), and the Orks brutally-mad humour was right at home in the UK, and made them an instant hit. The Orks also happened to be the most encountered alien race in Space Crusade, which probably made them almost as popular! There was also a big deal during the early 90s with the Armageddon campaign, which introduced(?) ghazghkull and Yarrick, so the orks were definitely huge.

After the grim marines and comical orks, you then had grace and a pleasing asthetic. The Eldar were certainly that and undoubtably had the most beautiful miniatures in the entire GW range. The Howling Banshee is iconic simply for having a face mask similar to that of the Predator, which was obviously a popular film at the time. In a similar respect, those who played Space Crusade immediately compared it to the movie ALIENS( must always be in capitols! ) and without prior knowledge of the 40K's background, newcomers got the impression that the Space Marines were the colonial marines of its universe.

Damn, I remember an Eldar Dreadnought( they were called that at the time ) which won a Golden Demon prize and it was midnight blue and had stars painted on it. Its the perfect example of why the Eldar are so popular with players. Sorry for the trip down memory lane, but they are good ones and are looking forward to collecting a new Eldar army - but this time with much better skill than I had 30 years ago!

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Aww, all the units from the second full scale all plastic primaris army are a month late? How terrible, all the non-SM factions will play you a sad song on a tiny violin.

This is something that I was originally going to also post about.
Rather than "Cool! Everyone's getting something!", it's become nothing but "You're Space Marines, you don't get to be annoyed if you don't get things released in a reasonable timeframe!".

Hopefully, this Psychic Awakening doesn't get dragged out like the Marine release has.

The reason it's become that is quite simply that the idea waiting a few months for something is an "unreasonable timeframe" is laughable in the broader context of GW releases, and demonstrates that some Marine players have allowed their army's preferential treatment over the years to warp their perspective on what constitutes reasonable.

We're talking about people hoping that Eldar get replacements for models that have been around for decades, that a measly handful of boxes be dedicated to that, and some Marine players are blubbing about the second full multi-kit release for their second all-plastic army being less than immediate? I'd say "welcome to playing every other faction for the last twenty years", but even that wouldn't be accurate since most of them wouldn't even have dreamt of having not only their whole range in plastic but a second range as well, on top of all the special units for variant subfactions.

The closest to Marines are Guard who have two themed plastic infantry ranges, comprising six boxes total, and themselves being 15-20 years old. The idea Marines are hard done by is sheer comedy.

The Eldar range doesn't even outsell a tac squad. Where does this xenos entitlement come from?

Assuming sarcasm filter is off.....
Because even Astra Militarum tire of killing marines?
Because how many people start with SM but move to some other faction? Because a tac squad is the base for how many different flavors of Marine armies?

I always consider the big four factions to be: Space Marines, Orks, Chaos and Craftworld Eldar.

But thats mainly because they were the playable factions in Dawn of War.

 Insurgency Walker wrote:
Assuming sarcasm filter is off.....
Because even Astra Militarum tire of killing marines?
Because how many people start with SM but move to some other faction? Because a tac squad is the base for how many different flavors of Marine armies?

I know that, I just assumed we were posting slowed straw man arguments.


Those new marine bits look nice btw...