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Sunny Side Up wrote:

Drager wrote:


So a Venom stood next to a Haemonculus wounds everything T5 or less on 3s? Or am I missing something that restricts this to melee or none vehicles or something?

T4 or less, but yes.

Next to a haemi they become toughness 6. That idiotic trait forgets to measure strength verse toughness, instead for some odd reason it measures the toughness of the attacker verse the toughness of the defender. I had to read it a couple times myself. Surely this will be FAQ'd within 2 weeks though.

I think it's Day 1 FAQ material really. Probably should be melee attacks.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

Drager wrote:


So a Venom stood next to a Haemonculus wounds everything T5 or less on 3s? Or am I missing something that restricts this to melee or none vehicles or something?

T4 or less, but yes.

Next to a haemi they become toughness 6. That idiotic trait forgets to measure strength verse toughness, instead for some odd reason it measures the toughness of the attacker verse the toughness of the defender. I had to read it a couple times myself. Surely this will be FAQ'd within 2 weeks though.

Oh yeah, that should probably be strength. It's probably working as intended though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shadenuat wrote:
I think it's Day 1 FAQ material really. Probably should be melee attacks.

That would make a lot more sense than splinter cannons suddenly becoming more poisonous because a venom is floating next to a haemonculous.

Honestly I think the -1 ap on all shuriken weapons is the craziest thing leaked. Mass shuriken fire was already solid, adding in the additional -1 and then you can jinx a target gets mental.

Within "12. It's for people who like playing their elves the hard way.

On a bright side, it does seem like they are standardizing Chapter Tactics to "you get two traits (or occasionally one very strong trait)."

I would be unsurprised to see The Cursed Blade and...the flying stuff kabal one... stay unchanged, as the are already two distinct traits, while Poisoned Tongue, the Craftworld Traits, and the two worse Coven traits might gain an extra bonus rule as did the basic marine CTs.

HOPEFULLY this new wych cult trait that is limited to stand on its own means they learned how much the Prophets of Flesh trait is a bad bad bad bad very bad idea, and that has been either changed or at the very least, not buffed.

Traitwise....honestly, they don't seem all that out of line especially compared to some of the gak marines now pull out of their power armored bumholes.

 Shadenuat wrote:
I think it's Day 1 FAQ material really. Probably should be melee attacks.

Probably which means it's trash. The only poisoned attacks in melee for coven are on wracks and haemis. No way anyone is trading Urien and a +1 to invuln for that.

I honestly only see the Test of skill combined with vehicles of all things to be the strong element. Damage 2 splinter weapons on a 6 to wound isn't awful either, but right now your looking at flayed skull or black heart to dethrone which is not an easy task IMO. I hope they didn't phone in the coven traits either like it appears because prophets of flesh currently has the best relic, WLT, strat and obsession which makes dethroning it daunting to begin with.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Honestly I think the -1 ap on all shuriken weapons is the craziest thing leaked. Mass shuriken fire was already solid, adding in the additional -1 and then you can jinx a target gets mental.

Its 12" range though.
Necrons have a similar trait, and its not that effective on them because of how risky it is. In most cases you have to be within 12" in order to use it, and that makes getting shot a few times. And necrons are much tougher than Eldar.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shadenuat wrote:
Within "12. It's for people who like playing their elves the hard way.

To be fair, shuriken catapults are already 12" range. It guess it's GW's way of buffing guardians...instead of just making them 24" range like nearly every other small arms weapon in the game.
Or even just 18" and give Dire Avengers 24" range.

 Shadenuat wrote:
Within "12. It's for people who like playing their elves the hard way.

That's hardly an issue for anyone that actually knows how to play.

Well it also buffs Avengers, Spears, any vehicles with TSC, pistols (including shooting into melee), shuriken cannons, even makes you want to try TSC Windriders.

And yes, of course it does great for Guardian blobs.

I honestly only see the Test of skill combined with vehicles of all things to be the strong element

Now that one *definitely* should be melee.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Honestly I think the -1 ap on all shuriken weapons is the craziest thing leaked. Mass shuriken fire was already solid, adding in the additional -1 and then you can jinx a target gets mental.

Its 12" range though.
Necrons have a similar trait, and its not that effective on them because of how risky it is. In most cases you have to be within 12" in order to use it, and that makes getting shot a few times. And necrons are much tougher than Eldar.

Guardians only have 12" to begin with. And Guardian-bombs are decent. Shining Spears are only 12" as well, as are Conclave bikes, etc..

For most of those, it will be decent.

Admittedly, none of that is top of the meta atm, but hey.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Honestly I think the -1 ap on all shuriken weapons is the craziest thing leaked. Mass shuriken fire was already solid, adding in the additional -1 and then you can jinx a target gets mental.

Its 12" range though.
Necrons have a similar trait, and its not that effective on them because of how risky it is. In most cases you have to be within 12" in order to use it, and that makes getting shot a few times. And necrons are much tougher than Eldar.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shadenuat wrote:
Within "12. It's for people who like playing their elves the hard way.

To be fair, shuriken catapults are already 12" range. It guess it's GW's way of buffing guardians.

Necrons move 5" and don't get battle focus lol. Your comparing a fine meal with the excrement that's produced later. Necrons are a horrible measuring stick lol.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Honestly I think the -1 ap on all shuriken weapons is the craziest thing leaked. Mass shuriken fire was already solid, adding in the additional -1 and then you can jinx a target gets mental.

Its 12" range though.
Necrons have a similar trait, and its not that effective on them because of how risky it is. In most cases you have to be within 12" in order to use it, and that makes getting shot a few times. And necrons are much tougher than Eldar.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shadenuat wrote:
Within "12. It's for people who like playing their elves the hard way.

To be fair, shuriken catapults are already 12" range. It guess it's GW's way of buffing guardians.

Necrons move 5" and don't get battle focus lol. Your comparing a fine meal with the excrement that'd produced later. Necrons are a horrible measuring stick lol.

Alright, fair enough. Still the possibility of return fire though.

It's also real strong on waive serpents with triple canons IMO. Although now I would consider taking the twin catapult to save points.

Well, to be fair, Marine doctrines aren't limited to 12" and don't even "take up" a chapter trait.

So in light of Marines getting an additional -1 AP to basically everything, 12" is a bit sad.

Do we know if the -1 AP to shuriken weapons is an Army trait, or an Exarch/Aspect warrior only power? Because if it's an army trait and Alaitoc is getting the Raven Guard treatment, I may choose that trait instead

-

Disarming strike is more logical and game-friendly now, without pissing off your opponent. Her new skill is better...situationally.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
So in light of Marines getting an additional -1 AP to basically everything, 12" is a bit sad.

Just give me some bonus to Strength from charge or something as 2d trait, and my dream Craftworld "Berserkers of Khaine" is ready.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Shadenuat wrote:
I think it's Day 1 FAQ material really. Probably should be melee attacks.

Probably which means it's trash. The only poisoned attacks in melee for coven are on wracks and haemis. No way anyone is trading Urien and a +1 to invuln for that.

I honestly only see the Test of skill combined with vehicles of all things to be the strong element. Damage 2 splinter weapons on a 6 to wound isn't awful either, but right now your looking at flayed skull or black heart to dethrone which is not an easy task IMO. I hope they didn't phone in the coven traits either like it appears because prophets of flesh currently has the best relic, WLT, strat and obsession which makes dethroning it daunting to begin with.

You missed the Flesh Gauntlets on Grotesques. Mortal Wounds going off on a 5+, with re-roll wounds fom the strat only costing 1CP can be very useful against a number of units.

 Imateria wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Shadenuat wrote:
I think it's Day 1 FAQ material really. Probably should be melee attacks.

Probably which means it's trash. The only poisoned attacks in melee for coven are on wracks and haemis. No way anyone is trading Urien and a +1 to invuln for that.

I honestly only see the Test of skill combined with vehicles of all things to be the strong element. Damage 2 splinter weapons on a 6 to wound isn't awful either, but right now your looking at flayed skull or black heart to dethrone which is not an easy task IMO. I hope they didn't phone in the coven traits either like it appears because prophets of flesh currently has the best relic, WLT, strat and obsession which makes dethroning it daunting to begin with.

You missed the Flesh Gauntlets on Grotesques. Mortal Wounds going off on a 5+, with re-roll wounds fom the strat only costing 1CP can be very useful against a number of units.

It sounds like Covens have lost their re-roll wounds strat, the article says Torturer's Craft is now +1 to wound. Pretty big nerf to them.

 Burnage wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Shadenuat wrote:
I think it's Day 1 FAQ material really. Probably should be melee attacks.

Probably which means it's trash. The only poisoned attacks in melee for coven are on wracks and haemis. No way anyone is trading Urien and a +1 to invuln for that.

I honestly only see the Test of skill combined with vehicles of all things to be the strong element. Damage 2 splinter weapons on a 6 to wound isn't awful either, but right now your looking at flayed skull or black heart to dethrone which is not an easy task IMO. I hope they didn't phone in the coven traits either like it appears because prophets of flesh currently has the best relic, WLT, strat and obsession which makes dethroning it daunting to begin with.

You missed the Flesh Gauntlets on Grotesques. Mortal Wounds going off on a 5+, with re-roll wounds fom the strat only costing 1CP can be very useful against a number of units.

It sounds like Covens have lost their re-roll wounds strat, the article says Torturer's Craft is now +1 to wound. Pretty big nerf to them.

As I said earlier, I'm hoping thats a mistake on WarComs part (wouldn't be the first time), because TC becaumes a considerably worse version of Veterans of the Long War for twice the cost otherwise.

This book definitely will be more popular than Phoenixbowl set.

 Burnage wrote:

It sounds like Covens have lost their re-roll wounds strat, the article says Torturer's Craft is now +1 to wound. Pretty big nerf to them.

Well, that'd be fun, wouldn't.

Entice people to not take Prophets so they can play an overpriced melee-only version of VotlW at a discount that might bring it back to VotlW-costs, if you're lucky.

Might just be a website/social-media people typo though. Perhaps?

I don't see how TC being +1 to wound can be anything other than a mistake, since this isn't an FAQ or errata so it can't change any of the codex rules, only add new ones.

The comment about Banshees going up against primaris really give it away. This whole book is just a clever plot from marines to se xenos field lots of T3 infantry against their bolters. The design team probably brainstormed how to make marine flamers viable again and came up with rules to bring the aeldari up close.
Suddenly even the stupid new primaris snipers make sense.

Just saying what everyone is thinking

Disclaimer-not really serious here.

 THE_LIST_MASTER wrote:


Did GW not learn anything? I thought they at least learned to put "INFANTRY and BIKER" before the really OP psychic powers and abilities but I guess not.....

Haven't been following marine supplements much have you these are mild in comparison

 Fayric wrote:
The comment about Banshees going up against primaris really give it away. This whole book is just a clever plot from marines to se xenos field lots of T3 infantry against their bolters. The design team probably brainstormed how to make marine flamers viable again and came up with rules to bring the aeldari up close.
Suddenly even the stupid new primaris snipers make sense.

Just saying what everyone is thinking

Disclaimer-not really serious here.

I know you're not serious, but the sad thing is that you might be right. And we haven't seen the Salamander supplement in full yet. There's bound to be some flamer buffs in that book.

-

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

Drager wrote:


So a Venom stood next to a Haemonculus wounds everything T5 or less on 3s? Or am I missing something that restricts this to melee or none vehicles or something?

T4 or less, but yes.

Next to a haemi they become toughness 6. That idiotic trait forgets to measure strength verse toughness, instead for some odd reason it measures the toughness of the attacker verse the toughness of the defender. I had to read it a couple times myself. Surely this will be FAQ'd within 2 weeks though.

Oh yeah, that should probably be strength. It's probably working as intended though.

I don't think it can be strength, since don't all poison weapons have a strength value of * and therefore have no number to compare to?

Banbaji wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

Drager wrote:


So a Venom stood next to a Haemonculus wounds everything T5 or less on 3s? Or am I missing something that restricts this to melee or none vehicles or something?

T4 or less, but yes.

Next to a haemi they become toughness 6. That idiotic trait forgets to measure strength verse toughness, instead for some odd reason it measures the toughness of the attacker verse the toughness of the defender. I had to read it a couple times myself. Surely this will be FAQ'd within 2 weeks though.

Oh yeah, that should probably be strength. It's probably working as intended though.

I don't think it can be strength, since don't all poison weapons have a strength value of * and therefore have no number to compare to?

Compare strength characteristic of attacking model to target's toughness.
If higher, increase to wound roll with poison weapons by 1.

 Imateria wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Shadenuat wrote:
I think it's Day 1 FAQ material really. Probably should be melee attacks.

Probably which means it's trash. The only poisoned attacks in melee for coven are on wracks and haemis. No way anyone is trading Urien and a +1 to invuln for that.

I honestly only see the Test of skill combined with vehicles of all things to be the strong element. Damage 2 splinter weapons on a 6 to wound isn't awful either, but right now your looking at flayed skull or black heart to dethrone which is not an easy task IMO. I hope they didn't phone in the coven traits either like it appears because prophets of flesh currently has the best relic, WLT, strat and obsession which makes dethroning it daunting to begin with.

You missed the Flesh Gauntlets on Grotesques. Mortal Wounds going off on a 5+, with re-roll wounds fom the strat only costing 1CP can be very useful against a number of units.

I didn't miss it, but definitely didn't express my thoughts correctly to reflect that. In my experience flesh gauntlets are extremely situational and the cleaver is almost always better. The things I generally want to do mortal wounds to tend to be vehicles or have really good armor saves. Verse armor saves the MW output generally just makes up for the lack of any AP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Twilight Pathways wrote:
I don't see how TC being +1 to wound can be anything other than a mistake, since this isn't an FAQ or errata so it can't change any of the codex rules, only add new ones.

Almost 100% it was an editorial error. Had there been a pic of the actual strat I'd worry. They make these kinds of errors all the time in these articles. They didn't even format the article well enough to understand when the subject is changing on the craftworld section. The -1sp is clearly an army trait upon further scrutiny but initially reads as an exarch power.