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BrianDavion wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

Spoiler:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
Why don't we wait until the rules are out before jumping to conclusions? The chaos stuff in the last book had super mediocre previews but when the whole set started making the rounds on the internet it was pretty clear most of the rules were pretty great.

If you're satisfied with the bandaid thrown on the bullet wound known as Codex: Chaos Space Marines that's on you.

The rules really don't do much to be honest. Woohoo I can make more variants of Suicide Lords! Oh and Alpha Legion + Iron Warriors are still better than everyone else! Pretty great huh?

Idk you're welcome to your opinion, I thought by and large the new rules were both fluffy AND effective, Goonhammer did a great article on it and their conclusion was pretty much everybody got something useful.

Sorry you're not as happy with it.

You don't fix a wooden rotting bridge by just slapping new paint on it.
Or do you?

Idk man I don't play in a competitive group, probably just comes down to different philosophies. I'm just happy for anything that makes my army fluffier and more functional.

it's a matter of unrealistic expectations, people expect a total codex re-write for their armies in PA, and thats just not gonna happen. If your army needs a new codex then your army needs a new codex, and add-ons aren't going to change that.

I don't think anyone expected a codex rewrite but we know GW aren't beyond updating datasheets for units in PA. Even if they just themed it around "whee the big nid monsters have evolved" and included updates for the haruspex, maleceptor and toxicrene to make them FINALLY good enough to bring I think nid players would have been happy.

Spoletta wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Another clear sign the calls that Marine insanity was a herald of things to come were nonsense.

Which is a good thing. Nerf marines and we are all happy instead of starting a new arm race.

You know that's pretty much what I'm hoping now. That all non-marines get mediocre updates so there's as few broken factions as possible so that at least xenos vs xenos can be fun and then hopefully GW eventually nerfs the marines(as if...). Seems like lesser of two evils now.

tneva82 wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Another clear sign the calls that Marine insanity was a herald of things to come were nonsense.

Which is a good thing. Nerf marines and we are all happy instead of starting a new arm race.

You know that's pretty much what I'm hoping now. That all non-marines get mediocre updates so there's as few broken factions as possible so that at least xenos vs xenos can be fun and then hopefully GW eventually nerfs the marines(as if...). Seems like lesser of two evils now.

Pretty unlikely imo, the Sisters codex seems to be doubling down on the whole "variable army-wide abilities" theme, I just don't think we're going to really see that in the PA books. At least not to the same degree.

If people say that PA isn't supposed to be like a 2nd Codex or anything of the sort (which is fair), then those same people I would expect would be rallying to get those 2nd Codexes out as soon as Games Workshop can. No need for a repeat of the Index vs Codex issues we had at the start of the edition to be repeated.

Darsath wrote:
If people say that PA isn't supposed to be like a 2nd Codex or anything of the sort (which is fair), then those same people I would expect would be rallying to get those 2nd Codexes out as soon as Games Workshop can. No need for a repeat of the Index vs Codex issues we had at the start of the edition to be repeated.

Definitely, especially given the new direction they seem to be taking army design. There's always going to be losers in an update system that goes army by army, but they absolutely should be doing their best to bring the other factions up to speed asap.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

Spoiler:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
Why don't we wait until the rules are out before jumping to conclusions? The chaos stuff in the last book had super mediocre previews but when the whole set started making the rounds on the internet it was pretty clear most of the rules were pretty great.

If you're satisfied with the bandaid thrown on the bullet wound known as Codex: Chaos Space Marines that's on you.

The rules really don't do much to be honest. Woohoo I can make more variants of Suicide Lords! Oh and Alpha Legion + Iron Warriors are still better than everyone else! Pretty great huh?

Idk you're welcome to your opinion, I thought by and large the new rules were both fluffy AND effective, Goonhammer did a great article on it and their conclusion was pretty much everybody got something useful.

Sorry you're not as happy with it.

You don't fix a wooden rotting bridge by just slapping new paint on it.
Or do you?

Idk man I don't play in a competitive group, probably just comes down to different philosophies. I'm just happy for anything that makes my army fluffier and more functional.

it's a matter of unrealistic expectations, people expect a total codex re-write for their armies in PA, and thats just not gonna happen. If your army needs a new codex then your army needs a new codex, and add-ons aren't going to change that.

I know you like White Knighting for Marines, but no. I was expecting something interesting, customisable Hive Fleets could offer that, as could new Psychic Powers, Relics and this new Adaptive Physiology system. However, it doesn't look like that is what we're getting, the traits shown off so far suck worse than the standard ones without offering anything different, the relic's OK but nothing to write home about, the Stratagem is OK but requires you to have killed something already, the psychic power is flat out aweful (we already have Dominion to make a unit fearless for a turn and nobody uses because it's bad, and this is worse). Adaptive Physiology looks like a slap in the face, it seems like a return to 3rd ed's Mutable Genus but is a buff that replaces your warlord trait and only ever applies to one unit.

It's pretty clear that GW can barely make things interesting, let alone good.

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
Why don't we wait until the rules are out before jumping to conclusions? The chaos stuff in the last book had super mediocre previews but when the whole set started making the rounds on the internet it was pretty clear most of the rules were pretty great.

If you're satisfied with the bandaid thrown on the bullet wound known as Codex: Chaos Space Marines that's on you.

The rules really don't do much to be honest. Woohoo I can make more variants of Suicide Lords! Oh and Alpha Legion + Iron Warriors are still better than everyone else! Pretty great huh?

Idk you're welcome to your opinion, I thought by and large the new rules were both fluffy AND effective, Goonhammer did a great article on it and their conclusion was pretty much everybody got something useful.

Sorry you're not as happy with it.

As much as I'd love to be a Debbie Downer for the sake of Devil's Advocate I have to agree. The CSM additions would be considered great and fun if we were to close our eyes and pretend C:SM never existed. Although I'm kind of glad GW overbuffed marines enough to finally shut up all the "marines are too weak and a single competitive build isn't acceptable for the most beloved of GW factions" crowd. Congrats you have just been overbuffed so people will hate you for multiple editions regardless of strength or empirical data showing how strong you actually are/were. Enjoy being Tau/Eldar.

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Another clear sign the calls that Marine insanity was a herald of things to come were nonsense.

Which is a good thing. Nerf marines and we are all happy instead of starting a new arm race.

You know that's pretty much what I'm hoping now. That all non-marines get mediocre updates so there's as few broken factions as possible so that at least xenos vs xenos can be fun and then hopefully GW eventually nerfs the marines(as if...). Seems like lesser of two evils now.

Pretty unlikely imo, the Sisters codex seems to be doubling down on the whole "variable army-wide abilities" theme, I just don't think we're going to really see that in the PA books. At least not to the same degree.

Variabl army wide abilties weren't all marines got. They got huge amount of free buffs and point drops to boot. And the level of power in SOB and SM codex is "bit" different.

tneva82 wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Another clear sign the calls that Marine insanity was a herald of things to come were nonsense.

Which is a good thing. Nerf marines and we are all happy instead of starting a new arm race.

You know that's pretty much what I'm hoping now. That all non-marines get mediocre updates so there's as few broken factions as possible so that at least xenos vs xenos can be fun and then hopefully GW eventually nerfs the marines(as if...). Seems like lesser of two evils now.

Pretty unlikely imo, the Sisters codex seems to be doubling down on the whole "variable army-wide abilities" theme, I just don't think we're going to really see that in the PA books. At least not to the same degree.

Variabl army wide abilties weren't all marines got. They got huge amount of free buffs and point drops to boot. And the level of power in SOB and SM codex is "bit" different.

Just saying that seems to be the design direction they're going, not comparing them pound for pound.

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Another clear sign the calls that Marine insanity was a herald of things to come were nonsense.

Which is a good thing. Nerf marines and we are all happy instead of starting a new arm race.

You know that's pretty much what I'm hoping now. That all non-marines get mediocre updates so there's as few broken factions as possible so that at least xenos vs xenos can be fun and then hopefully GW eventually nerfs the marines(as if...). Seems like lesser of two evils now.

Pretty unlikely imo, the Sisters codex seems to be doubling down on the whole "variable army-wide abilities" theme, I just don't think we're going to really see that in the PA books. At least not to the same degree.

Those two points aren't mutually exclusive though. Sisters, whilst getting an interesting update, did not get catapulted into the stratosphere to join Space Marines in being overpowered. I think that actually makes it a good update, but I'm defintiely worried that every other army will get updates that can't remotely match up to what Marines have.

 Imateria wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Another clear sign the calls that Marine insanity was a herald of things to come were nonsense.

Which is a good thing. Nerf marines and we are all happy instead of starting a new arm race.

You know that's pretty much what I'm hoping now. That all non-marines get mediocre updates so there's as few broken factions as possible so that at least xenos vs xenos can be fun and then hopefully GW eventually nerfs the marines(as if...). Seems like lesser of two evils now.

Pretty unlikely imo, the Sisters codex seems to be doubling down on the whole "variable army-wide abilities" theme, I just don't think we're going to really see that in the PA books. At least not to the same degree.

Those two points aren't mutually exclusive though. Sisters, whilst getting an interesting update, did not get catapulted into the stratosphere to join Space Marines in being overpowered. I think that actually makes it a good update, but I'm defintiely worried that every other army will get updates that can't remotely match up to what Marines have.

Not an invalid concern, just not one I share. My whole group basically plays a SM faction and a non-SM faction, if not multiples.

Also I'm no analyst but if the Sisters are at least competitive overall even if they're generally beaten by the flagship faction, isn't that enough?

It's not good if there's faction thats way above others no.

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Another clear sign the calls that Marine insanity was a herald of things to come were nonsense.

Which is a good thing. Nerf marines and we are all happy instead of starting a new arm race.

You know that's pretty much what I'm hoping now. That all non-marines get mediocre updates so there's as few broken factions as possible so that at least xenos vs xenos can be fun and then hopefully GW eventually nerfs the marines(as if...). Seems like lesser of two evils now.

Pretty unlikely imo, the Sisters codex seems to be doubling down on the whole "variable army-wide abilities" theme, I just don't think we're going to really see that in the PA books. At least not to the same degree.

Those two points aren't mutually exclusive though. Sisters, whilst getting an interesting update, did not get catapulted into the stratosphere to join Space Marines in being overpowered. I think that actually makes it a good update, but I'm defintiely worried that every other army will get updates that can't remotely match up to what Marines have.

Not an invalid concern, just not one I share. My whole group basically plays a SM faction and a non-SM faction, if not multiples.

Also I'm no analyst but if the Sisters are at least competitive overall even if they're generally beaten by the flagship faction, isn't that enough? [/quote

Some people seem to have been expecting them to just immediately be a meta-breaking tier army.

Funny thing is games where one side is just easily roflstomping because GW can't be bothered with good balance(indeed are interested in the opposite) aren't all that interesting. When game's result is known in advance there's no real reason to even play it.

Being white knight and ridiculing others with stupid namings doesn't change it. Just makes you look silly.

tneva82 wrote:
Funny thing is games where one side is just easily roflstomping because GW can't be bothered with good balance(indeed are interested in the opposite) aren't all that interesting. When game's result is known in advance there's no real reason to even play it.

Being white knight and ridiculing others with stupid namings doesn't change it. Just makes you look silly.

Just to play devil's advocate, on the other side of the coin isn't it just as silly for you to go into a forum dedicated to a game and talk about how bad and pointless the game is?

For all you Tyranid players upset with the reveal and concerned that you're kinda screwed compared to Marines have I got the topic for you.

For all you Xenos players concerned that your faction is going to get shortchanged compared to Marines in PA, feel free to click the link above also.

The latest Tyranid post was incredibly disappointing and just shows what none-Marine players can expect out of PA (very little).

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Funny thing is games where one side is just easily roflstomping because GW can't be bothered with good balance(indeed are interested in the opposite) aren't all that interesting. When game's result is known in advance there's no real reason to even play it.

Being white knight and ridiculing others with stupid namings doesn't change it. Just makes you look silly.

Just to play devil's advocate, on the other side of the coin isn't it just as silly for you to go into a forum dedicated to a game and talk about how bad and pointless the game is?

No, the forum is for the game. That includes good and bad aspects. If they release bad stuff, people will and should complain.

If you don't like negativity and instead like putting your head in the sand, leave and join Facebook/Instagram and post on their pages for endless positivity.

Yep. Totally disappointed. I cant even defend it.

My Adaptation is Hydra. It still does not affect 60% of our codex. Its only viable on 7-8 units. And now, after wasting space showing us they are not going to change the default fleet adaptations, i cant find a reason to get this book. My hive fleet will continue to have uphill struggles.

And no fix to our broken reserves strats.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Funny thing is games where one side is just easily roflstomping because GW can't be bothered with good balance(indeed are interested in the opposite) aren't all that interesting. When game's result is known in advance there's no real reason to even play it.

Being white knight and ridiculing others with stupid namings doesn't change it. Just makes you look silly.

Just to play devil's advocate, on the other side of the coin isn't it just as silly for you to go into a forum dedicated to a game and talk about how bad and pointless the game is?

No, the forum is for the game. That includes good and bad aspects. If they release bad stuff, people will and should complain.

If you don't like negativity and instead like putting your head in the sand, leave and join Facebook/Instagram and post on their pages for endless positivity.

I don't have a real problem with people being negative if it's warranted or at least backed up by compelling arguments, just was trying to illustrate it's pretty silly to call someone a white knight while busily being a black knight (or whatever the opposite is).

And I wouldn't call preferring constructive conversation to complaining for complaining's sake putting my head in the sand, but that's just me

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Funny thing is games where one side is just easily roflstomping because GW can't be bothered with good balance(indeed are interested in the opposite) aren't all that interesting. When game's result is known in advance there's no real reason to even play it.

Being white knight and ridiculing others with stupid namings doesn't change it. Just makes you look silly.

Just to play devil's advocate, on the other side of the coin isn't it just as silly for you to go into a forum dedicated to a game and talk about how bad and pointless the game is?

No, the forum is for the game. That includes good and bad aspects. If they release bad stuff, people will and should complain.

If you don't like negativity and instead like putting your head in the sand, leave and join Facebook/Instagram and post on their pages for endless positivity.

I don't have a real problem with people being negative if it's warranted or at least backed up by compelling arguments, just was trying to illustrate it's pretty silly to call someone a white knight while busily being a black knight (or whatever the opposite is).

The rules being released and how bland they are along with the clearly shown favoritism is the argument, and doesn't NEED any more warranting because we can all read. You choosing to ignore that is your own business but don't go claiming things that aren't true.

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Another clear sign the calls that Marine insanity was a herald of things to come were nonsense.

Which is a good thing. Nerf marines and we are all happy instead of starting a new arm race.

You know that's pretty much what I'm hoping now. That all non-marines get mediocre updates so there's as few broken factions as possible so that at least xenos vs xenos can be fun and then hopefully GW eventually nerfs the marines(as if...). Seems like lesser of two evils now.

Pretty unlikely imo, the Sisters codex seems to be doubling down on the whole "variable army-wide abilities" theme, I just don't think we're going to really see that in the PA books. At least not to the same degree.

Unless you are Blood Angels, Black Templars, Space Wolves..... Ie Space Marines.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Funny thing is games where one side is just easily roflstomping because GW can't be bothered with good balance(indeed are interested in the opposite) aren't all that interesting. When game's result is known in advance there's no real reason to even play it.

Being white knight and ridiculing others with stupid namings doesn't change it. Just makes you look silly.

Just to play devil's advocate, on the other side of the coin isn't it just as silly for you to go into a forum dedicated to a game and talk about how bad and pointless the game is?

No, the forum is for the game. That includes good and bad aspects. If they release bad stuff, people will and should complain.

If you don't like negativity and instead like putting your head in the sand, leave and join Facebook/Instagram and post on their pages for endless positivity.

I don't have a real problem with people being negative if it's warranted or at least backed up by compelling arguments, just was trying to illustrate it's pretty silly to call someone a white knight while busily being a black knight (or whatever the opposite is).

The rules being released and how bland they are along with the clearly shown favoritism is the argument, and doesn't NEED any more warranting because we can all read. You choosing to ignore that is your own business but don't go claiming things that aren't true.

I'm not saying there isn't favoritism, but a game's "goodness" or "badness" is entirely subjective, to which I'd say is a difficult thing to pin any sort of "truth" to.

I see just as many reasons to be happy with how things are as to be unhappy. Saying it tilts definitely one way or the other is silly since it's entirely based on where you're standing.

By that logic I think it's fair to call someone a hypocrite for calling someone a white knight apologist for being happy with how things are going while believing your own subjective opinion to be the "truth".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Another clear sign the calls that Marine insanity was a herald of things to come were nonsense.

Which is a good thing. Nerf marines and we are all happy instead of starting a new arm race.

You know that's pretty much what I'm hoping now. That all non-marines get mediocre updates so there's as few broken factions as possible so that at least xenos vs xenos can be fun and then hopefully GW eventually nerfs the marines(as if...). Seems like lesser of two evils now.

Pretty unlikely imo, the Sisters codex seems to be doubling down on the whole "variable army-wide abilities" theme, I just don't think we're going to really see that in the PA books. At least not to the same degree.

Unless you are Blood Angels, Black Templars, Space Wolves..... Ie Space Marines.

Yeeeeah kinda realized that after I wrote it....

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Funny thing is games where one side is just easily roflstomping because GW can't be bothered with good balance(indeed are interested in the opposite) aren't all that interesting. When game's result is known in advance there's no real reason to even play it.

Being white knight and ridiculing others with stupid namings doesn't change it. Just makes you look silly.

Just to play devil's advocate, on the other side of the coin isn't it just as silly for you to go into a forum dedicated to a game and talk about how bad and pointless the game is?

No, the forum is for the game. That includes good and bad aspects. If they release bad stuff, people will and should complain.

If you don't like negativity and instead like putting your head in the sand, leave and join Facebook/Instagram and post on their pages for endless positivity.

I don't have a real problem with people being negative if it's warranted or at least backed up by compelling arguments, just was trying to illustrate it's pretty silly to call someone a white knight while busily being a black knight (or whatever the opposite is).

The rules being released and how bland they are along with the clearly shown favoritism is the argument, and doesn't NEED any more warranting because we can all read. You choosing to ignore that is your own business but don't go claiming things that aren't true.

I'm not saying there isn't favoritism, but a game's "goodness" or "badness" is entirely subjective, to which I'd say is a difficult thing to pin any sort of "truth" to.

I see just as many reasons to be happy with how things are as to be unhappy. Saying it tilts definitely one way or the other is silly since it's entirely based on where you're standing.

Well that puts you in the minority then. As someone that plays 3 armies that have all had a recent opportunity to get changed up in some meaningful way completely ignred by GW, I don't have reasons to be too happy with where the game is.

I don't know that you can claim that definitively but I can see why you'd think so based on posters here

I am sorry it feels that way for you. It's gotta be pretty frustrating.

Tl;DR - it's not overbuffed over the buff of Codex Marines and so is trash?

Does that some it up?

I think its more "It not buffed up any where close to being on the same level as the buffed Marine Codex, so its trash." Which is a true enough statement.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
I think its more "It not buffed up any where close to being on the same level as the buffed Marine Codex, so its trash." Which is a true enough statement.

I mean kinda sad how the adaptations got handled.
But atleast you can now build a hivefleet with basetraits that work.

Regardless at this Point it's just stupid.

On one had yes.
On the other hand 'eh'. There's more than one game mode/mission to this and we're working from preview one that shows off 1 or 2 bits from each of the 4(?) rules extensions that are coming for a single faction. I'd call that a good thing, even if we wont know details until the weekend/next week at the earliest. Then there's also the Open Day on Saturday too. Y'know in most games that would be cause for general good will or happiness....

But because it's not invalidating Iron Hands/Marines it's all trash. Gotcha.

Look guys.. Everyone would just be better off if they all just shut the feth up and go buy more marines god damnit!!!!! Grr!!!!!

- GW management.

*sigh* Its funny coz its probably true