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 Argive wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
Why don't we wait until the rules are out before jumping to conclusions? The chaos stuff in the last book had super mediocre previews but when the whole set started making the rounds on the internet it was pretty clear most of the rules were pretty great.

cool story.

Hmm, that's an interesting counter-point, I'll have to think it over

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
Why don't we wait until the rules are out before jumping to conclusions? The chaos stuff in the last book had super mediocre previews but when the whole set started making the rounds on the internet it was pretty clear most of the rules were pretty great.

/shrug

The Ynnari preview had a mask-less Ynnari Banshee Exarch who was supposed to "walk a different path" to his non-Ynnari cousins.

The actual book didn't have anything to go with that alternative build of the model, nor anything new really, aside from the note you couldn't use any of the new, half-assed Eldar stuff as Ynnari.

Some books end up with even less than previewed .

bfdhud wrote:
But for a faction that has pretty much one competitive build (Kraken GS Bombs) who gives a gak about BYOHF.
.

"for a faction who only has one build who cares about more options"

......... wow

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
Why don't we wait until the rules are out before jumping to conclusions? The chaos stuff in the last book had super mediocre previews but when the whole set started making the rounds on the internet it was pretty clear most of the rules were pretty great.

/shrug

The Ynnari preview had a mask-less Ynnari Banshee Exarch who was supposed to "walk a different path" to his non-Ynnari cousins.

The actual book didn't have anything to go with that alternative build of the model, nor anything new really, aside from the note you couldn't use any of the new, half-assed Eldar stuff as Ynnari.

Some books end up with even less than previewed .

Definitely a fair point, all I have to counter with is that the second book it seems was a hit for all factions involved generally speaking (inb4 bUt ItS mUhRiNeS yes I know but still)

Therefore they're 1 and 1, maybe there's room for hope

BrianDavion wrote:

bfdhud wrote:
But for a faction that has pretty much one competitive build (Kraken GS Bombs) who gives a gak about BYOHF.
.

"for a faction who only has one build who cares about more options"

......... wow

options* that don't displace the one build that you can run and not get laughed off the table? Yeah, I think he's right. I get that Nids players should wait and see what we actually get, but if this preview showed the average power level of the book, there's not a lot to get jazzed about. BYOHF especially. 4+++ in Overwatch is pretty far away from what Nids actually need.

Well PA2 did give a boost to those poor Codex Space Marines who really needed a further 10 pages of rules and extra stuff as they had only recelty had a Codex and supplements

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
Why don't we wait until the rules are out before jumping to conclusions? The chaos stuff in the last book had super mediocre previews but when the whole set started making the rounds on the internet it was pretty clear most of the rules were pretty great.

If you're satisfied with the bandaid thrown on the bullet wound known as Codex: Chaos Space Marines that's on you.

The rules really don't do much to be honest. Woohoo I can make more variants of Suicide Lords! Oh and Alpha Legion + Iron Warriors are still better than everyone else! Pretty great huh?

 Mr Morden wrote:
Well PA2 did give a boost to those poor Codex Space Marines who really needed a further 10 pages of rules and extra stuff as they had only recelty had a Codex and supplements

I was more referring to CSM there but if you want to take it that way you're more than welcome to!

BrianDavion wrote:

bfdhud wrote:
But for a faction that has pretty much one competitive build (Kraken GS Bombs) who gives a gak about BYOHF.
.

"for a faction who only has one build who cares about more options"

......... wow

What's wow about it, I think it's a fair criticism. Imagine if Iron Hands were the only competitive Marine army. Which would you rather have. The other marine factions bumped up to a more competitive state or a BYOM ruleset that may or may not change anything and will most certainly add more complexity to a game that already requires something like six books to play one army.

I would rather see them adjust the existing hive fleets to bring them up closer to Kraken. Leviathan for example, It'd be nice if that was a 5+ fnp instead of six.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
Why don't we wait until the rules are out before jumping to conclusions? The chaos stuff in the last book had super mediocre previews but when the whole set started making the rounds on the internet it was pretty clear most of the rules were pretty great.

If you're satisfied with the bandaid thrown on the bullet wound known as Codex: Chaos Space Marines that's on you.

The rules really don't do much to be honest. Woohoo I can make more variants of Suicide Lords! Oh and Alpha Legion + Iron Warriors are still better than everyone else! Pretty great huh?

Idk you're welcome to your opinion, I thought by and large the new rules were both fluffy AND effective, Goonhammer did a great article on it and their conclusion was pretty much everybody got something useful.

Sorry you're not as happy with it.

I don't play Tyranids, nor have I ever. But this looks really mediocre. A substantial step down from some of the other previews shown previously, and certainly nothing here that would compete with the big contenders. Even the Chaos Space Marine stuff is better, and that got a resounding meh on release.

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
Why don't we wait until the rules are out before jumping to conclusions? The chaos stuff in the last book had super mediocre previews but when the whole set started making the rounds on the internet it was pretty clear most of the rules were pretty great.

If you're satisfied with the bandaid thrown on the bullet wound known as Codex: Chaos Space Marines that's on you.

The rules really don't do much to be honest. Woohoo I can make more variants of Suicide Lords! Oh and Alpha Legion + Iron Warriors are still better than everyone else! Pretty great huh?

Idk you're welcome to your opinion, I thought by and large the new rules were both fluffy AND effective, Goonhammer did a great article on it and their conclusion was pretty much everybody got something useful.

Sorry you're not as happy with it.

You don't fix a wooden rotting bridge by just slapping new paint on it.
Or do you?

bfdhud wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

bfdhud wrote:
But for a faction that has pretty much one competitive build (Kraken GS Bombs) who gives a gak about BYOHF.
.

"for a faction who only has one build who cares about more options"

......... wow

What's wow about it, I think it's a fair criticism. Imagine if Iron Hands were the only competitive Marine army. Which would you rather have. The other marine factions bumped up to a more competitive state or a BYOM ruleset that may or may not change anything and will most certainly add more complexity to a game that already requires something like six books to play one army.

I would rather see them adjust the existing hive fleets to bring them up closer to Kraken. Leviathan for example, It'd be nice if that was a 5+ fnp instead of six.

Idk in that scenario I'd just build some hive rules that suited me and call them Leviathan. What's stopping you from doing that?

bfdhud wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

bfdhud wrote:
But for a faction that has pretty much one competitive build (Kraken GS Bombs) who gives a gak about BYOHF.
.

"for a faction who only has one build who cares about more options"

......... wow

What's wow about it, I think it's a fair criticism. Imagine if Iron Hands were the only competitive Marine army. Which would you rather have. The other marine factions bumped up to a more competitive state or a BYOM ruleset that may or may not change anything and will most certainly add more complexity to a game that already requires something like six books to play one army.

I would rather see them adjust the existing hive fleets to bring them up closer to Kraken. Leviathan for example, It'd be nice if that was a 5+ fnp instead of six.

PA is about adding in new things, not errataing existing subfaction abilities. people who keep hoping for a "chapter tactics re-work" in PA are simply setting themselves up for dissapointment.

Another clear sign the calls that Marine insanity was a herald of things to come were nonsense.

You know what would make the new Adaptations cool and thematic?

Changing them (one or both parts) at the Start of the game or mid-game for free. And including all the base line Hive Fleet adaptations in that morphable list....

I might get excited then.

 Eldarain wrote:
Another clear sign the calls that Marine insanity was a herald of things to come were nonsense.

Which is a good thing. Nerf marines and we are all happy instead of starting a new arm race.

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

 Aenar wrote:
To be fair I kinda enjoy this situation as a xeno player: many WAAC SM players are encouraged to play more often than they did. That means that there are more chances to knock'em down a peg, provided you actually know how to use your army.
I know a few hobbyists that fit this description. They played little to no 40k games in the last couple of years and suddenly they've started to be interested into the game and bought a lot of new stuff. You wouldn't be able to guess how much they are spending on new models and rules, in order to copy internet lists.

Needless to say, experience > strong units. I admit it feels good to win against them.

Lol better attitude than most. If your group has a good attitude and isn't full of WAAC guys, there's less of a gap than people think.

Thats not quite true. I play in a super casual meta and the more my opponents come to know the nids and what they can do the more they know how to deal with them. If my opponent plays IG of any description I may as well not bother. Tying up tanks with hormies only works once.

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

Spoiler:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
Why don't we wait until the rules are out before jumping to conclusions? The chaos stuff in the last book had super mediocre previews but when the whole set started making the rounds on the internet it was pretty clear most of the rules were pretty great.

If you're satisfied with the bandaid thrown on the bullet wound known as Codex: Chaos Space Marines that's on you.

The rules really don't do much to be honest. Woohoo I can make more variants of Suicide Lords! Oh and Alpha Legion + Iron Warriors are still better than everyone else! Pretty great huh?

Idk you're welcome to your opinion, I thought by and large the new rules were both fluffy AND effective, Goonhammer did a great article on it and their conclusion was pretty much everybody got something useful.

Sorry you're not as happy with it.

You don't fix a wooden rotting bridge by just slapping new paint on it.
Or do you?

Idk man I don't play in a competitive group, probably just comes down to different philosophies. I'm just happy for anything that makes my army fluffier and more functional.

I mean yeah it did give some great fluffy and variable rules.i can agree with that absolutely
But at this rate it is clear that the traits e.g. foundation is on some pillars (traits) not really workable.

Spoletta wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Another clear sign the calls that Marine insanity was a herald of things to come were nonsense.

Which is a good thing. Nerf marines and we are all happy instead of starting a new arm race.

I think we're still seeing that, have you seen the new Sister rules?

Variable army-wide buffs is probably here to stay, just not necessarily something that gets applied in PA books.

I think it's a net positive by adding new ways to play.

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

Spoiler:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
Why don't we wait until the rules are out before jumping to conclusions? The chaos stuff in the last book had super mediocre previews but when the whole set started making the rounds on the internet it was pretty clear most of the rules were pretty great.

If you're satisfied with the bandaid thrown on the bullet wound known as Codex: Chaos Space Marines that's on you.

The rules really don't do much to be honest. Woohoo I can make more variants of Suicide Lords! Oh and Alpha Legion + Iron Warriors are still better than everyone else! Pretty great huh?

Idk you're welcome to your opinion, I thought by and large the new rules were both fluffy AND effective, Goonhammer did a great article on it and their conclusion was pretty much everybody got something useful.

Sorry you're not as happy with it.

You don't fix a wooden rotting bridge by just slapping new paint on it.
Or do you?

Idk man I don't play in a competitive group, probably just comes down to different philosophies. I'm just happy for anything that makes my army fluffier and more functional.

it's a matter of unrealistic expectations, people expect a total codex re-write for their armies in PA, and thats just not gonna happen. If your army needs a new codex then your army needs a new codex, and add-ons aren't going to change that.

No,i so not expect a rework, i was expecting an actual look at traits.no more,no less.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

Spoiler:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
Why don't we wait until the rules are out before jumping to conclusions? The chaos stuff in the last book had super mediocre previews but when the whole set started making the rounds on the internet it was pretty clear most of the rules were pretty great.

If you're satisfied with the bandaid thrown on the bullet wound known as Codex: Chaos Space Marines that's on you.

The rules really don't do much to be honest. Woohoo I can make more variants of Suicide Lords! Oh and Alpha Legion + Iron Warriors are still better than everyone else! Pretty great huh?

Idk you're welcome to your opinion, I thought by and large the new rules were both fluffy AND effective, Goonhammer did a great article on it and their conclusion was pretty much everybody got something useful.

Sorry you're not as happy with it.

You don't fix a wooden rotting bridge by just slapping new paint on it.
Or do you?

Idk man I don't play in a competitive group, probably just comes down to different philosophies. I'm just happy for anything that makes my army fluffier and more functional.

I mean yeah it did give some great fluffy and variable rules.i can agree with that absolutely
But at this rate it is clear that the traits e.g. foundation is on some pillars (traits) not really workable.

Yeah not compared to C:SM. I'll agree with that. CSM 1.5 was one of GW's biggest slipups in recent memory imo, no contesting that. Short of constructive feedback emails not much I can do about it, so just gonna make the best.

On the other hand, it's pretty difficult to retro-actively improve Tyranids just using additional psychic powers and custom Hive Fleet rules. They need re-building from the ground up.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

Spoiler:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
Why don't we wait until the rules are out before jumping to conclusions? The chaos stuff in the last book had super mediocre previews but when the whole set started making the rounds on the internet it was pretty clear most of the rules were pretty great.

If you're satisfied with the bandaid thrown on the bullet wound known as Codex: Chaos Space Marines that's on you.

The rules really don't do much to be honest. Woohoo I can make more variants of Suicide Lords! Oh and Alpha Legion + Iron Warriors are still better than everyone else! Pretty great huh?

Idk you're welcome to your opinion, I thought by and large the new rules were both fluffy AND effective, Goonhammer did a great article on it and their conclusion was pretty much everybody got something useful.

Sorry you're not as happy with it.

You don't fix a wooden rotting bridge by just slapping new paint on it.
Or do you?

Idk man I don't play in a competitive group, probably just comes down to different philosophies. I'm just happy for anything that makes my army fluffier and more functional.

it's a matter of unrealistic expectations, people expect a total codex re-write for their armies in PA, and thats just not gonna happen. If your army needs a new codex then your army needs a new codex, and add-ons aren't going to change that.

Honestly I think that's why DA BA and SW are getting these updates in the PA medium. They don't have any codexes in the near future, maybe not even this edition. Their rules are to give them a bit of a boost until something more solid is released down the road.

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

bfdhud wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

bfdhud wrote:
But for a faction that has pretty much one competitive build (Kraken GS Bombs) who gives a gak about BYOHF.
.

"for a faction who only has one build who cares about more options"

......... wow

What's wow about it, I think it's a fair criticism. Imagine if Iron Hands were the only competitive Marine army. Which would you rather have. The other marine factions bumped up to a more competitive state or a BYOM ruleset that may or may not change anything and will most certainly add more complexity to a game that already requires something like six books to play one army.

I would rather see them adjust the existing hive fleets to bring them up closer to Kraken. Leviathan for example, It'd be nice if that was a 5+ fnp instead of six.

Idk in that scenario I'd just build some hive rules that suited me and call them Leviathan. What's stopping you from doing that?

Nothings stopping me, except that my army is painted in Leviathan colors because I actually Like Leviathan. I don't play them as Kraken or Gorgon or Kronos either. The Nids book didn't age very well and the Five fleet that I played because of fluff/colors instead of rules has one of the weaker Traits.

But that is kinda irrelevant. There is an issue with a codex when there is only 1 build that is somewhat competitive. The Nids could use a v2 codex. Several of the Xenos armies could use a v2 codex.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

Spoiler:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
Why don't we wait until the rules are out before jumping to conclusions? The chaos stuff in the last book had super mediocre previews but when the whole set started making the rounds on the internet it was pretty clear most of the rules were pretty great.

If you're satisfied with the bandaid thrown on the bullet wound known as Codex: Chaos Space Marines that's on you.

The rules really don't do much to be honest. Woohoo I can make more variants of Suicide Lords! Oh and Alpha Legion + Iron Warriors are still better than everyone else! Pretty great huh?

Idk you're welcome to your opinion, I thought by and large the new rules were both fluffy AND effective, Goonhammer did a great article on it and their conclusion was pretty much everybody got something useful.

Sorry you're not as happy with it.

You don't fix a wooden rotting bridge by just slapping new paint on it.
Or do you?

Idk man I don't play in a competitive group, probably just comes down to different philosophies. I'm just happy for anything that makes my army fluffier and more functional.

it's a matter of unrealistic expectations, people expect a total codex re-write for their armies in PA, and thats just not gonna happen. If your army needs a new codex then your army needs a new codex, and add-ons aren't going to change that.

Isn't that exactly what Blood Angels are getting and Black Templars..........and Space Wolves.....ahh I guess only Marines deserve it.

No I get that, my point is, if they're releasing a BYO hive fleet option similar to what SM have, why not just build a hive fleet trait that does what you'd like it to do? Assuming the options they give you aren't universally trash this seems like the best way to have your cake and eat it too.

Being sincere here not sarcastic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

Spoiler:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
Why don't we wait until the rules are out before jumping to conclusions? The chaos stuff in the last book had super mediocre previews but when the whole set started making the rounds on the internet it was pretty clear most of the rules were pretty great.

If you're satisfied with the bandaid thrown on the bullet wound known as Codex: Chaos Space Marines that's on you.

The rules really don't do much to be honest. Woohoo I can make more variants of Suicide Lords! Oh and Alpha Legion + Iron Warriors are still better than everyone else! Pretty great huh?

Idk you're welcome to your opinion, I thought by and large the new rules were both fluffy AND effective, Goonhammer did a great article on it and their conclusion was pretty much everybody got something useful.

Sorry you're not as happy with it.

You don't fix a wooden rotting bridge by just slapping new paint on it.
Or do you?

Idk man I don't play in a competitive group, probably just comes down to different philosophies. I'm just happy for anything that makes my army fluffier and more functional.

it's a matter of unrealistic expectations, people expect a total codex re-write for their armies in PA, and thats just not gonna happen. If your army needs a new codex then your army needs a new codex, and add-ons aren't going to change that.

Isn't that exactly what Blood Angels are getting and Black Templars..........and Space Wolves.....ahh I guess only Marines deserve it.

If that's how you choose to look at it

BrianDavion wrote:

bfdhud wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

bfdhud wrote:
But for a faction that has pretty much one competitive build (Kraken GS Bombs) who gives a gak about BYOHF.
.

"for a faction who only has one build who cares about more options"

......... wow

What's wow about it, I think it's a fair criticism. Imagine if Iron Hands were the only competitive Marine army. Which would you rather have. The other marine factions bumped up to a more competitive state or a BYOM ruleset that may or may not change anything and will most certainly add more complexity to a game that already requires something like six books to play one army.

I would rather see them adjust the existing hive fleets to bring them up closer to Kraken. Leviathan for example, It'd be nice if that was a 5+ fnp instead of six.

PA is about adding in new things, not errataing existing subfaction abilities. people who keep hoping for a "chapter tactics re-work" in PA are simply setting themselves up for dissapointment.

I wasn't expecting a CT rewrite in PA. I haven't seen anyone in this thread really ask for it either. I'm more disappointed in the effort to introduce a new BYOHF system that no one really asked for when the existing HF's are no longer competitive and kind of suck. a CT rewrite isn't necessary to fix that. The stuff they did add (psychic powers, strats, relics, adaptations) could have been used to buff the other HF's But based on what I've seen from the preview .

The Leviathan power shown is mediocre.
the strat was mediocre
the relic was mediocre
the adaptations seem cool but at the cost of a warlord trait?? mediocre.

Hopefully the stuff not previewed is better than the stuff previewed.