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His theory/wishlist to bring cults from TS 30k rules into 40k.

tneva82 wrote:
His theory/wishlist to bring cults from TS 30k rules into 40k.

It's not a crazy assumption however, it's the type of rules they seem to be using these books to roll out.

Dudeface wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
His theory/wishlist to bring cults from TS 30k rules into 40k.

It's not a crazy assumption however, it's the type of rules they seem to be using these books to roll out.

No army that has lacked subfactions has gained subfactions thus far. It's doubtful 1k sons will be the first

BrianDavion wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
His theory/wishlist to bring cults from TS 30k rules into 40k.

It's not a crazy assumption however, it's the type of rules they seem to be using these books to roll out.

No army that has lacked subfactions has gained subfactions thus far. It's doubtful 1k sons will be the first

Whilst valid, that only encompasses BA so far who got doctrines etc and a massive range update. TS are the first non-loyalist marines army to not have sub-factions and have a PA release.

Dudeface wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
His theory/wishlist to bring cults from TS 30k rules into 40k.

It's not a crazy assumption however, it's the type of rules they seem to be using these books to roll out.

No army that has lacked subfactions has gained subfactions thus far. It's doubtful 1k sons will be the first

Whilst valid, that only encompasses BA so far who got doctrines etc and a massive range update. TS are the first non-loyalist marines army to not have sub-factions and have a PA release.

maybe but I tend to set my expectations low, keeps me from ever being dissappointed

BrianDavion wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
His theory/wishlist to bring cults from TS 30k rules into 40k.

It's not a crazy assumption however, it's the type of rules they seem to be using these books to roll out.

No army that has lacked subfactions has gained subfactions thus far. It's doubtful 1k sons will be the first

Whilst valid, that only encompasses BA so far who got doctrines etc and a massive range update. TS are the first non-loyalist marines army to not have sub-factions and have a PA release.

maybe but I tend to set my expectations low, keeps me from ever being dissappointed

Bitch please, I have zero expectations and I still get let down on a regular basis.

Doing Sub factions for a given Marine Chapter as already sub-sub faction of either Chaos or Imperial is really getting a bit excessive.....You would have to get new traits for indivdual companies or smaller.....

I think another really big TS release would be in its own PA book - being alongside DA in their supplement book means limited space.

Given that most remaining TS indivduality is limited to their sorcerers, I think it will be Warlord Traits or Relics if anything.

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

JSG wrote:

pm713 wrote:
That sounds incredibly stupid both from a writing and lore perspective.

This accusation gets levelled at every new release, before it's even available. Yet no one ever explains why.

From a writing point of view it's stupid because I already know that the plan for Tzeentch to enter reality is going to fail. There's no suspense or anything around it because it's a foregone conclusion. It's like a film trying to be suspenseful about a character being dead when the trailers have shown him alive later on.

From a lore point of view it's stupid because it's a rehashing of the same story of Magnus has a plan and gets undone by Tzeentch even though he should know better. The first time it was good, the second less so. It also seems a bit odd that huge amounts of a valuable resource are being nicked by Magnus.

Personally, I just feel Magnus should fade into the background after the disservice they did him in Siege of Fenris.

you also knew Anakin Skywalker was going to become Darth Vader in the SW Prequals, did that stop you from seeing it? You know James Bond will escape that Goldberg deathtrap of doom, etc the entertaining thing is often not what happens but HOW it happens

edit: don't get me wrong I don't expect much from this book (40k story wise is at it's best when a battle is mentioned almost off hand in a codex and it's expanded upon by Black Library into a novel or 50) but there are plenty of examples of stories out there where knowing the general jist of whats happening is still sastifying.

I actually didn't know that. I watched the prequels then the original trilogy.

That would be true if I was watching/reading something where I believed the HOW would be interesting. With GW I don't partly because of their track record and partly because campaign books aren't very good at story telling like that. If it was a film I'd be fine with it because it could have flashy flashy cool parts but writing can't do that.

Probably psychic powers to be honest.
Not much more delving into sorcerers than that

pm713 wrote:
That would be true if I was watching/reading something where I believed the HOW would be interesting. With GW I don't partly because of their track record and partly because campaign books aren't very good at story telling like that. If it was a film I'd be fine with it because it could have flashy flashy cool parts but writing can't do that.

I don't believe that it matters a whole lot whether you know the end of a story if the issue is that the writer is bad at story telling.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Doing Sub factions for a given Marine Chapter as already sub-sub faction of either Chaos or Imperial is really getting a bit excessive.....You would have to get new traits for indivdual companies or smaller.....

I think another really big TS release would be in its own PA book - being alongside DA in their supplement book means limited space.

Given that most remaining TS indivduality is limited to their sorcerers, I think it will be Warlord Traits or Relics if anything.

Question, where did you hear that this is the DA supplement book?
I understand that's the expectation given the precedent, but was this is any way confirmed anywhere and I'm missing something?

pm713 wrote:


That would be true if I was watching/reading something where I believed the HOW would be interesting. With GW I don't partly because of their track record and partly because campaign books aren't very good at story telling like that. If it was a film I'd be fine with it because it could have flashy flashy cool parts but writing can't do that.

A good author can actually do that.

Though admittedly, little chance of that here.

deTox91 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Doing Sub factions for a given Marine Chapter as already sub-sub faction of either Chaos or Imperial is really getting a bit excessive.....You would have to get new traits for indivdual companies or smaller.....

I think another really big TS release would be in its own PA book - being alongside DA in their supplement book means limited space.

Given that most remaining TS indivduality is limited to their sorcerers, I think it will be Warlord Traits or Relics if anything.

Question, where did you hear that this is the DA supplement book?
I understand that's the expectation given the precedent, but was this is any way confirmed anywhere and I'm missing something?

The announcement video for each book shows the icons of the armies that will be in the book.

I think many people are talking past each other currently.

1. We all know DA will be in the book in some form.
2. Contention is with the type of inclusion, full on codex supplement treatment like BA and BT, or more like chaos in last book.

I think it's more likely to be a full on supplement, it has to be really. As much as many are fed up with marines right now, it would be a dick move by GW to not give the DA treatment that every other chapter (barring SW who should get same next year) has not received.
Deathwatch and Grey Knights are exceptions as they are not full on chapters per se, and more than likely will just get minor additions.

I expect DA to be most of this book and I will be glad to see it. as one of the worst performing armies currently, they need help. Yes, GK do too, but that fix is far more difficult than what DA need (as the formula for their fix is already established with earlier marine books)

I'm hoping for the full supplement treatment for DA, and also good lore for TS. We all know they've set up shop in the Prospero system and that's it. It would be cool to see how that's progressing IE Expanding their power base, raiding nearby systems etc.

CSM having real-space bases of operations is super-cool and interesting to me, gives their actions a little more weight. No, they're not fleeing back to the warp this time, they actually have a little mini-empire to protect.

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
I'm hoping for the full supplement treatment for DA, and also good lore for TS. We all know they've set up shop in the Prospero system and that's it. It would be cool to see how that's progressing IE Expanding their power base, raiding nearby systems etc.

CSM having real-space bases of operations is super-cool and interesting to me, gives their actions a little more weight. No, they're not fleeing back to the warp this time, they actually have a little mini-empire to protect.

I'm hoping for an enhanced legion trait for the Thousand Sons - one that also benefits non-psyker units. I'd also really like to see some kind of psychic dreadnought option. Magnus essentially created them, and if the Blood Angels can have them, why not the Thousand Sons? Perhaps rules for the Osiron Contemptor?

I'd also like to see some sort of in-game result of Magnus bringing all these psykers to Prospero.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
I'm hoping for the full supplement treatment for DA, and also good lore for TS. We all know they've set up shop in the Prospero system and that's it. It would be cool to see how that's progressing IE Expanding their power base, raiding nearby systems etc.

CSM having real-space bases of operations is super-cool and interesting to me, gives their actions a little more weight. No, they're not fleeing back to the warp this time, they actually have a little mini-empire to protect.

I'm hoping for an enhanced legion trait for the Thousand Sons - one that also benefits non-psyker units. I'd also really like to see some kind of psychic dreadnought option. Magnus essentially created them, and if the Blood Angels can have them, why not the Thousand Sons? Perhaps rules for the Osiron Contemptor?

I'd also like to see some sort of in-game result of Magnus bringing all these psykers to Prospero.

That would be dope, my only concern would be PA hasn't really touched Forgeworld models tmk, and GW is pretty clear that if there's no model, there's no rules.

Hopefully I'm wrong.

Each book is accompanied by a heroic champion, which was what GW said at open day when they said 3 more books are on the way. Someone on B&C said that they heard about a Dark Angels character who is great at killing other characters so we can probably rule out TS getting a miniature of any sort.

 Brometheus wrote:
Each book is accompanied by a heroic champion, which was what GW said at open day when they said 3 more books are on the way. Someone on B&C said that they heard about a Dark Angels character who is great at killing other characters so we can probably rule out TS getting a miniature of any sort.

Hmmmmmm sounds like Belial. Source for that? I'm happy with any scrap.

Side note, if it *is* Belial I'd be a touch salty, Ezekial needs a new model way more than Belial does (I'm predicting no Azrael until the next full codex)

Hantheman on B&C:

"I’ve been told DA get a new primaris character who’s focused on character killing. We’ll see I guess! Shame not to get a new Azrael model"

Note he is just passing word on.

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
I'm hoping for the full supplement treatment for DA, and also good lore for TS. We all know they've set up shop in the Prospero system and that's it. It would be cool to see how that's progressing IE Expanding their power base, raiding nearby systems etc.

CSM having real-space bases of operations is super-cool and interesting to me, gives their actions a little more weight. No, they're not fleeing back to the warp this time, they actually have a little mini-empire to protect.

It's definitely something that should have been given more weight, rather than these slap fights over 'super-important' single worlds that no one had ever heard about. With the sundering of the imperium by the warp rift, chaos and xenos setting up kingdoms in the 'dark half' should have been the driving narrative. Or at least the Imperiums response to that, if the imperial POV needs to be focus.

Voss wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
I'm hoping for the full supplement treatment for DA, and also good lore for TS. We all know they've set up shop in the Prospero system and that's it. It would be cool to see how that's progressing IE Expanding their power base, raiding nearby systems etc.

CSM having real-space bases of operations is super-cool and interesting to me, gives their actions a little more weight. No, they're not fleeing back to the warp this time, they actually have a little mini-empire to protect.

It's definitely something that should have been given more weight, rather than these slap fights over 'super-important' single worlds that no one had ever heard about. With the sundering of the imperium by the warp rift, chaos and xenos setting up kingdoms in the 'dark half' should have been the driving narrative. Or at least the Imperiums response to that, if the imperial POV needs to be focus.

I'm definitely with you. Definitely a map nerd who loves looking at charts like "Ok these three worlds here are held by x, and if y takes that world they can then set up an assault on planet z" etc etc.

Emperor's Spears really reinforced that for Nhilus, everything's basically feudal on that side, which I love.

I actually liked the last PA book for that, I'm not a BA player but it gave a series of planets that you could build into your own narrative.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
I'm hoping for the full supplement treatment for DA, and also good lore for TS. We all know they've set up shop in the Prospero system and that's it. It would be cool to see how that's progressing IE Expanding their power base, raiding nearby systems etc.

CSM having real-space bases of operations is super-cool and interesting to me, gives their actions a little more weight. No, they're not fleeing back to the warp this time, they actually have a little mini-empire to protect.

I'm hoping for an enhanced legion trait for the Thousand Sons - one that also benefits non-psyker units. I'd also really like to see some kind of psychic dreadnought option. Magnus essentially created them, and if the Blood Angels can have them, why not the Thousand Sons? Perhaps rules for the Osiron Contemptor?

I'd also like to see some sort of in-game result of Magnus bringing all these psykers to Prospero.

They didn't bother fixing the Legion traits for anyone, so they're not gonna bother fixing Thousand Sons.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
I'm hoping for the full supplement treatment for DA, and also good lore for TS. We all know they've set up shop in the Prospero system and that's it. It would be cool to see how that's progressing IE Expanding their power base, raiding nearby systems etc.

CSM having real-space bases of operations is super-cool and interesting to me, gives their actions a little more weight. No, they're not fleeing back to the warp this time, they actually have a little mini-empire to protect.

I'm hoping for an enhanced legion trait for the Thousand Sons - one that also benefits non-psyker units. I'd also really like to see some kind of psychic dreadnought option. Magnus essentially created them, and if the Blood Angels can have them, why not the Thousand Sons? Perhaps rules for the Osiron Contemptor?

I'd also like to see some sort of in-game result of Magnus bringing all these psykers to Prospero.

They didn't bother fixing the Legion traits for anyone, so they're not gonna bother fixing Thousand Sons.

Sure they didn't rewrite every single rule interaction for CSM in a PA book, cause that definitely would have made sense!

Pages of really thematic and competitive rules for every legion, but since it wasn't their legion traits they're worthless!

 Brometheus wrote:
Hantheman on B&C:

"I’ve been told DA get a new primaris character who’s focused on character killing. We’ll see I guess! Shame not to get a new Azrael model"

Note he is just passing word on.

Oh man, that's tasty--especially if it's a nice little passing nod to Naaman(well aware that he is dead).

 Brometheus wrote:
Hantheman on B&C:

"I’ve been told DA get a new primaris character who’s focused on character killing. We’ll see I guess! Shame not to get a new Azrael model"

Note he is just passing word on.

I think it's pretty clear what's going to happen,

The new characters is going to be a dark angel, Lazarus, Company Master of the 5th, the first inner circle member to cross the rubicon primaris. They talked about him in white dwarf, which was them priming the pump. It's amusing to hear that he is good at killing characters, probably has huntsman as his trait, and uses a heavenfall blade equivalent.

The DA are going to get tactical doctrine equivalents, hopefully based around the ravenwing/deathwing/greenwing. Who knows with the right rules combo maybe deathwing will be useable (probably hoping for too much there).

As for the cults GW talked about, it's obvious it's going to be things like the corpse grinder cult, you know since they just released them. You'll spend a CP to give a unit of cultist special rules, for example with the corpse grinder cult you'll probably spend a CP to give a cultist unit +1 str and +1 attack. I actually think it's kind of cool, because deathguard and thousand sons already have special versions of cultist, so this gives other CSM legions ways to customize their cultist as well.

 Grimgold wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:
Hantheman on B&C:

"I’ve been told DA get a new primaris character who’s focused on character killing. We’ll see I guess! Shame not to get a new Azrael model"

Note he is just passing word on.

I think it's pretty clear what's going to happen,

The new characters is going to be a dark angel, Lazarus, Company Master of the 5th, the first inner circle member to cross the rubicon primaris. They talked about him in white dwarf, which was them priming the pump. It's amusing to hear that he is good at killing characters, probably has huntsman as his trait, and uses a heavenfall blade equivalent.

The DA are going to get tactical doctrine equivalents, hopefully based around the ravenwing/deathwing/greenwing. Who knows with the right rules combo maybe deathwing will be useable (probably hoping for too much there).

As for the cults GW talked about, it's obvious it's going to be things like the corpse grinder cult, you know since they just released them. You'll spend a CP to give a unit of cultist special rules, for example with the corpse grinder cult you'll probably spend a CP to give a cultist unit +1 str and +1 attack. I actually think it's kind of cool, because deathguard and thousand sons already have special versions of cultist, so this gives other CSM legions ways to customize their cultist as well.

Honestly I don't even mind a new unique character, and the cult idea is interesting, although it would be strange for them to give an option for vanilla CSM in a book nominally focused on TS

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:


Honestly I don't even mind a new unique character, and the cult idea is interesting, although it would be strange for them to give an option for vanilla CSM in a book nominally focused on TS

Ritual of the damned is also about the cults that have plagued the IoM since the citrix maledictum, they would have released it in FaF but they didn't want to steal the thunder from RotD.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 cole1114 wrote:
If I'm right about the "stratagems to become certain cults" thing I hope tzaangors can be effected. They'd really benefit from pavoni's +1 to advance/charge, compared to any actual marine units.

Where did you bring the idea such a stratagem even exists?
Or if he does, that this is what pavoni does?

Because I've seen nothing about RotD TS content even at the most unreliable sources.

Another person mentioned it as a guess based on a podcast run by playtesters. I ran with it.

As for subfactions, it wouldn't be that. It'd be bonuses for individual units based on old 30k stuff.

Wow those year in review articles on the Community website are lame. I wish they would just dive into this PA book already, I mean the preorders are on Dec 25 right?

Personally, I think the TS are only going to get a few strats, WL traits, and Relics akin to what each legion got in Faith and Furry. The Alpha Legion Strats are pretty good so hopefully we will get something at that level.