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pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

JSG wrote:

pm713 wrote:
That sounds incredibly stupid both from a writing and lore perspective.

This accusation gets levelled at every new release, before it's even available. Yet no one ever explains why.

From a writing point of view it's stupid because I already know that the plan for Tzeentch to enter reality is going to fail. There's no suspense or anything around it because it's a foregone conclusion. It's like a film trying to be suspenseful about a character being dead when the trailers have shown him alive later on.

From a lore point of view it's stupid because it's a rehashing of the same story of Magnus has a plan and gets undone by Tzeentch even though he should know better. The first time it was good, the second less so. It also seems a bit odd that huge amounts of a valuable resource are being nicked by Magnus.

Personally, I just feel Magnus should fade into the background after the disservice they did him in Siege of Fenris.

you also knew Anakin Skywalker was going to become Darth Vader in the SW Prequals, did that stop you from seeing it? You know James Bond will escape that Goldberg deathtrap of doom, etc the entertaining thing is often not what happens but HOW it happens

edit: don't get me wrong I don't expect much from this book (40k story wise is at it's best when a battle is mentioned almost off hand in a codex and it's expanded upon by Black Library into a novel or 50) but there are plenty of examples of stories out there where knowing the general jist of whats happening is still sastifying.

I actually didn't know that. I watched the prequels then the original trilogy.

That would be true if I was watching/reading something where I believed the HOW would be interesting. With GW I don't partly because of their track record and partly because campaign books aren't very good at story telling like that. If it was a film I'd be fine with it because it could have flashy flashy cool parts but writing can't do that.

Taken combined your two statements tell me you're a kid, so wipe your nose and listen to your elders when they say it's possiable to have a good story, even in fiction, where you know the ending, if the writer is good. the problem is that there's not much chance of that here. not that it's impossiable. the trick is to focus on the journey. A GOOD book, is enjoyable from Start to finish because just getting to the end is an enjoyable experiance filled with intreasting things, things learned, things experianced, a world come alive before your imagination. a Bad book is entirely reliant on "I BET YOU DIDN'T SEE THAT COMING!" shock value, such as killing off major characters etc.

 xeen wrote:
Wow those year in review articles on the Community website are lame. I wish they would just dive into this PA book already, I mean the preorders are on Dec 25 right?

Personally, I think the TS are only going to get a few strats, WL traits, and Relics akin to what each legion got in Faith and Furry. The Alpha Legion Strats are pretty good so hopefully we will get something at that level.

Right?! I'm with you. But no, they didn't mention pre-orders at all. They just said Full Reveal Dec 25.

 Grimgold wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:
Hantheman on B&C:

"I’ve been told DA get a new primaris character who’s focused on character killing. We’ll see I guess! Shame not to get a new Azrael model"

Note he is just passing word on.

I think it's pretty clear what's going to happen,

The new characters is going to be a dark angel, Lazarus, Company Master of the 5th, the first inner circle member to cross the rubicon primaris. They talked about him in white dwarf, which was them priming the pump. It's amusing to hear that he is good at killing characters, probably has huntsman as his trait, and uses a heavenfall blade equivalent.

The DA are going to get tactical doctrine equivalents, hopefully based around the ravenwing/deathwing/greenwing. Who knows with the right rules combo maybe deathwing will be useable (probably hoping for too much there).
.

If it's going to be Lazarus, and supposedly good at killing characters, he'll need more than just a heavenfall blade and huntsman. Only way Huntsman would be good is if they gave him a plasma exterminator (potential 9 damage with weapons of dark age strat and overcharge), or some equivalent. Heck, A MC exterminator with 3 damage on overcharge, going to 4 with strat would be quite dangerous... if he can target characters.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Brometheus wrote:

 xeen wrote:
Wow those year in review articles on the Community website are lame. I wish they would just dive into this PA book already, I mean the preorders are on Dec 25 right?

Personally, I think the TS are only going to get a few strats, WL traits, and Relics akin to what each legion got in Faith and Furry. The Alpha Legion Strats are pretty good so hopefully we will get something at that level.

Right?! I'm with you. But no, they didn't mention pre-orders at all. They just said Full Reveal Dec 25.

yes, earliest possible release would be Jan 4th with a Dec 28th preorder.

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
I'm hoping for the full supplement treatment for DA, and also good lore for TS. We all know they've set up shop in the Prospero system and that's it. It would be cool to see how that's progressing IE Expanding their power base, raiding nearby systems etc.

CSM having real-space bases of operations is super-cool and interesting to me, gives their actions a little more weight. No, they're not fleeing back to the warp this time, they actually have a little mini-empire to protect.

I'm hoping for an enhanced legion trait for the Thousand Sons - one that also benefits non-psyker units. I'd also really like to see some kind of psychic dreadnought option. Magnus essentially created them, and if the Blood Angels can have them, why not the Thousand Sons? Perhaps rules for the Osiron Contemptor?

I'd also like to see some sort of in-game result of Magnus bringing all these psykers to Prospero.

They didn't bother fixing the Legion traits for anyone, so they're not gonna bother fixing Thousand Sons.

Sure they didn't rewrite every single rule interaction for CSM in a PA book, cause that definitely would have made sense!

Pages of really thematic and competitive rules for every legion, but since it wasn't their legion traits they're worthless!

Did you even bother to see how much more Loyalists got? They got a generic Strat for everyone that is locked only for specific Legions. No better Dark Apostles for your World Eaters! No other Warlords for your Night Lords!
Yeah you can pretend the stuff made the Legions competitive though. It's still just going to be the same things being used.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
I'm hoping for the full supplement treatment for DA, and also good lore for TS. We all know they've set up shop in the Prospero system and that's it. It would be cool to see how that's progressing IE Expanding their power base, raiding nearby systems etc.

CSM having real-space bases of operations is super-cool and interesting to me, gives their actions a little more weight. No, they're not fleeing back to the warp this time, they actually have a little mini-empire to protect.

I'm hoping for an enhanced legion trait for the Thousand Sons - one that also benefits non-psyker units. I'd also really like to see some kind of psychic dreadnought option. Magnus essentially created them, and if the Blood Angels can have them, why not the Thousand Sons? Perhaps rules for the Osiron Contemptor?

I'd also like to see some sort of in-game result of Magnus bringing all these psykers to Prospero.

They didn't bother fixing the Legion traits for anyone, so they're not gonna bother fixing Thousand Sons.

Sure they didn't rewrite every single rule interaction for CSM in a PA book, cause that definitely would have made sense!

Pages of really thematic and competitive rules for every legion, but since it wasn't their legion traits they're worthless!

Did you even bother to see how much more Loyalists got? They got a generic Strat for everyone that is locked only for specific Legions. No better Dark Apostles for your World Eaters! No other Warlords for your Night Lords!
Yeah you can pretend the stuff made the Legions competitive though. It's still just going to be the same things being used.

If you're looking for supplement-tier support for multiple mini-factions in the PA books you're going to be disappointed.

I'm aware that SM got more love. I'm also aware SM is GW's most popular and most profitable faction, so I'm not surprised or angry when they get more support.

I chose to not play the poster-boy faction, and so I'm just happy when Chaos gets a bit of decent love. Which they did. Their strats and relics are fun, flavorful, and improve some less-used units.

Why waste energy asking for parity that will never be had?

Why have the lay back and accept it attitude?

God, I love the talking down at somebody and telling them they're a kid and then typing out a rant filled with spelling errors, wild and crazy capitalization and punctuation. It's a beautiful thing. Bonus points for upholding the star wars prequels and the James Bond films where they started relying on crazy traps and gizmos as masterful storytelling.

40k as a setting is crippled right now by the twofold need to continuously up the stakes while simultaneously never ever being allowed to make space marines look bad. Right now, the story is literally "Everything is bad, everything is so terrible and dire, oh the entire universe has been rent in twain, the grimness is so grim the darkness is so dark enjoy all these stories where the good guys win

every.

single.

battle."

It's the exact opposite of the problem that TLJ had, where the narrative tension was established by the heroes losing so badly and so frequently that they looked like utter buffoons and suspension of disbelief that they could ever turn things around was strained to the absolute breaking point, in 40k every antagonist has failed so hard and so badly you can't take them seriously. Except I guess for the villainous factions who just...never appear in fiction like the Dark Eldar. GW busted out the biggest baddest dudes they had to try and escalate things and 50 foot tall daemon primarch Magnus has already had his ass handed to him mano a mano by Guilliman who's still a double-stuf space marine.

The only imperial character GW was OK with losing to any antagonist was Abbadon beating Space Winston Churchill (and even then they had to make sure Creed got in a couple good shots with his trusty las pistols!)

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why have the lay back and accept it attitude?

I had something typed out but really it's off topic so nevermind. Let's just assume I totally verbally destroyed your argument and brought you around to my way of thinking

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why have the lay back and accept it attitude?

I had something typed out but really it's off topic so nevermind. Let's just assume I totally verbally destroyed your argument and brought you around to my way of thinking

Either you did or you didn't. This here is saying you understand it's irrational to just accept it as it is. Y'all need to start trying to speak with your wallets but instead you just keep buying into this crap.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why have the lay back and accept it attitude?

I had something typed out but really it's off topic so nevermind. Let's just assume I totally verbally destroyed your argument and brought you around to my way of thinking

Either you did or you didn't. This here is saying you understand it's irrational to just accept it as it is. Y'all need to start trying to speak with your wallets but instead you just keep buying into this crap.

Oh sorry, I didn't realize "This isn't the thread for that discussion" actually means "You're right".

Silly me.

 Grimgold wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:


Honestly I don't even mind a new unique character, and the cult idea is interesting, although it would be strange for them to give an option for vanilla CSM in a book nominally focused on TS

Ritual of the damned is also about the cults that have plagued the IoM since the citrix maledictum, they would have released it in FaF but they didn't want to steal the thunder from RotD.

They did it with the huge pile of extra rules for generic Marines in the BT supplement.

 Mr Morden wrote:

They did it with the huge pile of extra rules for generic Marines in the BT supplement.

There is that as well.

the_scotsman wrote:

Spoiler:

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

JSG wrote:

pm713 wrote:
That sounds incredibly stupid both from a writing and lore perspective.

This accusation gets levelled at every new release, before it's even available. Yet no one ever explains why.

From a writing point of view it's stupid because I already know that the plan for Tzeentch to enter reality is going to fail. There's no suspense or anything around it because it's a foregone conclusion. It's like a film trying to be suspenseful about a character being dead when the trailers have shown him alive later on.

From a lore point of view it's stupid because it's a rehashing of the same story of Magnus has a plan and gets undone by Tzeentch even though he should know better. The first time it was good, the second less so. It also seems a bit odd that huge amounts of a valuable resource are being nicked by Magnus.

Personally, I just feel Magnus should fade into the background after the disservice they did him in Siege of Fenris.

you also knew Anakin Skywalker was going to become Darth Vader in the SW Prequals, did that stop you from seeing it? You know James Bond will escape that Goldberg deathtrap of doom, etc the entertaining thing is often not what happens but HOW it happens

edit: don't get me wrong I don't expect much from this book (40k story wise is at it's best when a battle is mentioned almost off hand in a codex and it's expanded upon by Black Library into a novel or 50) but there are plenty of examples of stories out there where knowing the general jist of whats happening is still sastifying.

I actually didn't know that. I watched the prequels then the original trilogy.

That would be true if I was watching/reading something where I believed the HOW would be interesting. With GW I don't partly because of their track record and partly because campaign books aren't very good at story telling like that. If it was a film I'd be fine with it because it could have flashy flashy cool parts but writing can't do that.

"Taken combined your two statements tell me you're a kid, so wipe your nose and listen to your elders when they say it's possiable to have a good story, even in fiction, where you know the ending, if the writer is good. the problem is that there's not much chance of that here. not that it's impossiable. the trick is to focus on the journey. A GOOD book, is enjoyable from Start to finish because just getting to the end is an enjoyable experiance filled with intreasting things, things learned, things experianced, a world come alive before your imagination. a Bad book is entirely reliant on "I BET YOU DIDN'T SEE THAT COMING!" shock value, such as killing off major characters etc."

God, I love the talking down at somebody and telling them they're a kid and then typing out a rant filled with spelling errors, wild and crazy capitalization and punctuation. It's a beautiful thing. Bonus points for upholding the star wars prequels and the James Bond films where they started relying on crazy traps and gizmos as masterful storytelling.

40k as a setting is crippled right now by the twofold need to continuously up the stakes while simultaneously never ever being allowed to make space marines look bad. Right now, the story is literally "Everything is bad, everything is so terrible and dire, oh the entire universe has been rent in twain, the grimness is so grim the darkness is so dark enjoy all these stories where the good guys win

every.

single.

battle."

It's the exact opposite of the problem that TLJ had, where the narrative tension was established by the heroes losing so badly and so frequently that they looked like utter buffoons and suspension of disbelief that they could ever turn things around was strained to the absolute breaking point, in 40k every antagonist has failed so hard and so badly you can't take them seriously. Except I guess for the villainous factions who just...never appear in fiction like the Dark Eldar. GW busted out the biggest baddest dudes they had to try and escalate things and 50 foot tall daemon primarch Magnus has already had his ass handed to him mano a mano by Guilliman who's still a double-stuf space marine.

The only imperial character GW was OK with losing to any antagonist was Abbadon beating Space Winston Churchill (and even then they had to make sure Creed got in a couple good shots with his trusty las pistols!)

I gotta disagree

The tau win quite a bit, it usually goes back and forth but in the end the tau deal more damage than they receive.

The thousand sons (and Tdaemons) won pretty big in Wrath of Magnus, causing massive damage at fenris and bringing the planet of the sorcerers out of the eye for a new staging ground for further assault. Sure big M lost the solo fight to big G, but the bigger picture the TS are on a roll.

The necron cause massive casualties to the imperium on every encounter, while suffering very little actual losses.

Etc, etc.


The imperium isn't winning, it's just losing rather slowly as it's big enough to contain it's losses and rebuild it's forces. They win individuals fights, but losing every war. Even with the new Primaris reinforcement deus ex, they barely hold on, with major worlds like baal and fenris on the brink.

I’m curious about when the AdMech will show up in one of these books. Maybe fighting the Tau? If not then they’ll most likely be in a later book fighting Necrons I assume.

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why have the lay back and accept it attitude?

I had something typed out but really it's off topic so nevermind. Let's just assume I totally verbally destroyed your argument and brought you around to my way of thinking

Either you did or you didn't. This here is saying you understand it's irrational to just accept it as it is. Y'all need to start trying to speak with your wallets but instead you just keep buying into this crap.

Oh sorry, I didn't realize "This isn't the thread for that discussion" actually means "You're right".

Silly me.

Then message it.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I’m curious about when the AdMech will show up in one of these books. Maybe fighting the Tau? If not then they’ll most likely be in a later book fighting Necrons I assume.

Admech are more likely to get a 2.0 codex than appearance in a PA book. They have 3+ kits that need included, with hints at at least 2 more (Manipulus, Dunerider, Archeopter kits, and potentially Dadelosis and his Servitor) (hints at a heavy infantry and rumor engine of a potential skitarii character)

 Brometheus wrote:

 xeen wrote:
Wow those year in review articles on the Community website are lame. I wish they would just dive into this PA book already, I mean the preorders are on Dec 25 right?

Personally, I think the TS are only going to get a few strats, WL traits, and Relics akin to what each legion got in Faith and Furry. The Alpha Legion Strats are pretty good so hopefully we will get something at that level.

Right?! I'm with you. But no, they didn't mention pre-orders at all. They just said Full Reveal Dec 25.

Indeed preorders won't be on 25th. It's wednesdayx

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I’m curious about when the AdMech will show up in one of these books. Maybe fighting the Tau? If not then they’ll most likely be in a later book fighting Necrons I assume.

Admech are more likely to get a 2.0 codex than appearance in a PA book. They have 3+ kits that need included, with hints at at least 2 more (Manipulus, Dunerider, Archeopter kits, and potentially Dadelosis and his Servitor) (hints at a heavy infantry and rumor engine of a potential skitarii character)

blood angels got like 15 new datasheets in PA3

BrianDavion wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I’m curious about when the AdMech will show up in one of these books. Maybe fighting the Tau? If not then they’ll most likely be in a later book fighting Necrons I assume.

Admech are more likely to get a 2.0 codex than appearance in a PA book. They have 3+ kits that need included, with hints at at least 2 more (Manipulus, Dunerider, Archeopter kits, and potentially Dadelosis and his Servitor) (hints at a heavy infantry and rumor engine of a potential skitarii character)

blood angels got like 15 new datasheets in PA3

Yeah I wouldn’t be surprised if these datasheets came in with the PA. GW said every faction is appearing in a PA book in some shape or form so I’m definitely expecting that over a new book any time soon.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I’m curious about when the AdMech will show up in one of these books. Maybe fighting the Tau? If not then they’ll most likely be in a later book fighting Necrons I assume.

Probably necrons, because I think tau might be occupied in the damocles gulf fighting marines. This is supported by the fact that necrons other regular opponents all seem to have other dance partners (Black templars v CSM, tyranids v Blood angels, eldar V themselves). Of course the last couple of books have to be pretty grab bag to fit all of the remaining factions, so it might be cawls magical trip around the galaxy stealing technology.

 Tiberius501 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I’m curious about when the AdMech will show up in one of these books. Maybe fighting the Tau? If not then they’ll most likely be in a later book fighting Necrons I assume.

Admech are more likely to get a 2.0 codex than appearance in a PA book. They have 3+ kits that need included, with hints at at least 2 more (Manipulus, Dunerider, Archeopter kits, and potentially Dadelosis and his Servitor) (hints at a heavy infantry and rumor engine of a potential skitarii character)

blood angels got like 15 new datasheets in PA3

Yeah I wouldn’t be surprised if these datasheets came in with the PA. GW said every faction is appearing in a PA book in some shape or form so I’m definitely expecting that over a new book any time soon.

Why do you think anyone other than Marines is going to get this level of support?

We have seen the new Ad Mech flyer but that might be it (its a great looking model IMO) - or it could be just artwork...

BrianDavion wrote:
Taken combined your two statements tell me you're a kid, so wipe your nose and listen to your elders

Man it's really hard to hold my tongue when i read idiotic like this.
Grown men don't need to brag online what big strong manly men they are. Honest question: How insecure are you?

If you're an adult then you're definitely on the spectrum. You misspelled like half a dozen words in a paragraph of insults and snide remarks.

 Mr Morden wrote:

We have seen the new Ad Mech flyer but that might be it (its a great looking model IMO) - or it could be just artwork...

Eh we have seen the model already. It's not artwork. Don't go hyperbole and say no other than marines never receive any new models.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I’m curious about when the AdMech will show up in one of these books. Maybe fighting the Tau? If not then they’ll most likely be in a later book fighting Necrons I assume.

Admech are more likely to get a 2.0 codex than appearance in a PA book. They have 3+ kits that need included, with hints at at least 2 more (Manipulus, Dunerider, Archeopter kits, and potentially Dadelosis and his Servitor) (hints at a heavy infantry and rumor engine of a potential skitarii character)

Yeah, I'd be very surprised to not see the Archaeopter come out with a 2.0 admech codex.

They also have chapter tactics from the same era as space marines (sorry, CSM players...) and they're in a weird rules situation where now they have exactly 1 model (the dunerider) that does not benefit from chapter tactics. Because they had the old "infantry and walker" chapter tactic wording, but previously all their stuff was walkers so effectively everything benefitted from their chapter tactics.

2.0 codex, a couple new models, redesigned CT's and stratagems, and a reworking of Canticles to boost up the little used ones and make them a "purity bonus" ala combat doctrines.

the_scotsman wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I’m curious about when the AdMech will show up in one of these books. Maybe fighting the Tau? If not then they’ll most likely be in a later book fighting Necrons I assume.

Admech are more likely to get a 2.0 codex than appearance in a PA book. They have 3+ kits that need included, with hints at at least 2 more (Manipulus, Dunerider, Archeopter kits, and potentially Dadelosis and his Servitor) (hints at a heavy infantry and rumor engine of a potential skitarii character)

Yeah, I'd be very surprised to not see the Archaeopter come out with a 2.0 admech codex.

They also have chapter tactics from the same era as space marines (sorry, CSM players...) and they're in a weird rules situation where now they have exactly 1 model (the dunerider) that does not benefit from chapter tactics. Because they had the old "infantry and walker" chapter tactic wording, but previously all their stuff was walkers so effectively everything benefitted from their chapter tactics.

2.0 codex, a couple new models, redesigned CT's and stratagems, and a reworking of Canticles to boost up the little used ones and make them a "purity bonus" ala combat doctrines.

I don't know, the wait for the next codex after Sisters could be quite long, I really wouldn't be surprised to see all the datasheets from releases AdMech have had since their codex came out to be consolidated in PA, with the Archeopter being the only new one. As for the Forge World traits, I wouldn't expect any change on their wording in PA, just a the build-your-own options of blandness.

And given the level of effort being put into these books for none loyalist marines, that'll probably cover everything they get.

tneva82 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

We have seen the new Ad Mech flyer but that might be it (its a great looking model IMO) - or it could be just artwork...

Eh we have seen the model already. It's not artwork. Don't go hyperbole and say no other than marines never receive any new models.

I meant it might not be in the "Ad Mech PA" - its not a character so less likely I think -unless there is named pilot version. An Alpha Skitarri would be a great bonus though....

Agree the cool Ornithopter model is coming out but it might not be linked or at least not obviously (see the "Faith" PA and the cocked up Sisters pre-release)

I'm hoping PA gives Thousand Sons Tzeentch Arcanites, Gaunt Summoners and Ogroid Thaumaturges. I don't think those have 40k rules yet and that would really help fill out their force org.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
I'm hoping PA gives Thousand Sons Tzeentch Arcanites, Gaunt Summoners and Ogroid Thaumaturges. I don't think those have 40k rules yet and that would really help fill out their force org.

Whilst I like this, I kinda wish they'd get more... thousand sons and less sigmar to pad the range out.

Dudeface wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
I'm hoping PA gives Thousand Sons Tzeentch Arcanites, Gaunt Summoners and Ogroid Thaumaturges. I don't think those have 40k rules yet and that would really help fill out their force org.

Whilst I like this, I kinda wish they'd get more... thousand sons and less sigmar to pad the range out.

I concur. I'd love to see some non-Rubric marines. Is there anything stopping the Sons from creating new non-psyker marines? They can induct new sorcerers, but would a new marine just immediately suffer the Rubric?