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 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
The big reveal is going to be those Grav bike land speeder things that got leaked because we k ie they were leaked and GW didnt respond because they were saving it for the LVO.

I really hope so!

God I hope not. What kind of codex shenanigan would be needed to encompass the rules for them, too? It'd be a giant clusterf so close to the new codex.

rememebr GW wants to move away from all releases being tied to a codex release, and now that they put the rules for something in the package it's easy eneugh to do. they could even put the datasheet up online for free until they get around to putting the rules in some new book.

New units don't nesscarily mean a new codex these days.

especially if it's just one or two new units. Admech for instance has IIRC gotten a new HQ and a new tank without a codex.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I just realised I wrote "Noise Marine Marines".

Y'all knew what I meant.

RAW was broken, and you want us to rely on RAI?

I want DG to have access to Disco Lords and Venomcrawlers.

I know it won't happen but I can wish.

jivardi wrote:
I want DG to have access to Disco Lords and Venomcrawlers.

I know it won't happen but I can wish.

And fething Chaos Lords that are T5 with DR

Excluding DG the chaos legions are done. They won’t get anything else in PA so you’re looking at least until after then.

The Primaris stuff was painted in red and blue iirc, very strange for a marketing picture. I’m starting to think it’s not real. If it is the I’d be very surprised they preview it during PA because all relevant SM factions have been done except SW and the ‘leak’ models weren’t painted in a SW scheme. The only thing I can think of is a new marine faction codex aka Primaris marines that encourages different chapters banding together. It’d be an absolute joke given the support marines have received to date, but GW gonna GW.

Long story short - don’t expect any new Legion stuff (except DG) and take the Primaris ‘leak’ with a hefty grain of salt.

Regarding the Primaris Leak, it's possiable that they're showing it in a mix of various colours to highlight that "yes guys, BA,s DAs etc can take this stuff too"

jivardi wrote:
I want DG to have access to Disco Lords and Venomcrawlers.

I know it won't happen but I can wish.

just because of the name of a venomcrawler, doesn't mean that it fits DG.

BrianDavion wrote:
Regarding the Primaris Leak, it's possiable that they're showing it in a mix of various colours to highlight that "yes guys, BA,s DAs etc can take this stuff too"

Maybe, but can you think of a single time when GW previewed different new units in the same picture with mixed chapters? I can't. I've never seen a preview pic of units with multiple chapters. Unless the speeder has a specific, lore-based reason for having a different paint scheme? Like librarians generally having a blue scheme, for example.

Also is the betting pool still open for the next release or are we sure that it will be primaris?

Not Online!!! wrote:

jivardi wrote:
I want DG to have access to Disco Lords and Venomcrawlers.

I know it won't happen but I can wish.

just because of the name of a venomcrawler, doesn't mean that it fits DG.

The whole fluff behind the chaos stuff in shadowspear and the new start collecting box is Masters of Possessions creating weird constructs and infusing them with warp energy. Venom Crawler and Greater Possessed are described as their pet projects. The most powerful of them head entire corrupted manufactorums which chum out daemon engines by the masses.

... which is one major defining aspect of the Death Guard, calling an entire planet their own, littered with exactly such faculties that Masters of Possessions strive to build/lead. While there are arguments for not having most of the other new stuff, creating daemon engines is one of the big parts of DG, so there really is no reason why they shouldn't have Masters of Possession, Greater Possessed and Venom Crawlers.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Also is the betting pool still open for the next release or are we sure that it will be primaris?

Do GW release anything else? They were effectively forced to do Sisters. They seem in no rush to deliver anything that isn't in power armour and the historic patterns of releases speak for themselves.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Excluding DG the chaos legions are done. They won’t get anything else in PA so you’re looking at least until after then.

The Primaris stuff was painted in red and blue iirc, very strange for a marketing picture. I’m starting to think it’s not real. If it is the I’d be very surprised they preview it during PA because all relevant SM factions have been done except SW and the ‘leak’ models weren’t painted in a SW scheme. The only thing I can think of is a new marine faction codex aka Primaris marines that encourages different chapters banding together. It’d be an absolute joke given the support marines have received to date, but GW gonna GW.

Long story short - don’t expect any new Legion stuff (except DG) and take the Primaris ‘leak’ with a hefty grain of salt.

Which is why even with the good stuff faith and fury felt so disappointing. Because it didn't fix legion traits and we know we won't be getting another chance at that for a while.


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 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Also is the betting pool still open for the next release or are we sure that it will be primaris?

Do GW release anything else? They were effectively forced to do Sisters. They seem in no rush to deliver anything that isn't in power armour and the historic patterns of releases speak for themselves.

Tau got shadow sun so there's still hope for a new Ghazgul.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Also is the betting pool still open for the next release or are we sure that it will be primaris?

Do GW release anything else? They were effectively forced to do Sisters. They seem in no rush to deliver anything that isn't in power armour and the historic patterns of releases speak for themselves.

I mostly wanted to meme a Traitor Guard suggestion in there, and imagine, they could still release a lieutnant that way



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tau got shadow sun so there's still hope for a new Ghazgul.

As a former orkboy, i'd damn well hope so, but better yet, in an actual kit for a megaarmor warboss.

That would definitely go well with the bsf traitor guard. I'd personally prefer an actual kit for marauders though. With sniper rifles please gw?

jivardi wrote:
I want DG to have access to Disco Lords and Venomcrawlers.

I know it won't happen but I can wish.

 NurglesR0T wrote:
And fething Chaos Lords that are T5 with DR

Given that there are no Death Guard Lords Discordant, and no Death Guard Chaos Lords/Sorcerers, and as long as GW remains deathly afraid of third party bitzmakers, we will never see these units get rules in the Codices you mentioned.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Tau got shadow sun so there's still hope for a new Ghazgul.

As a former orkboy, i'd damn well hope so, but better yet, in an actual kit for a megaarmor warboss.

Now don't you go breaking my Orky heart boys! Hope is the first step to what again?

E - on the whole 'DG getting stuff' discussion - I think the main argument GW will put forward for NOT giving them Venomcrawlers, MoP, Gtr Possessed and/or Chaos Lords is to keep the range distinct. It's the curse of splitting off and becoming your own codex - you get a new range with tons of new models (awesome) but you lose access to some of the traditional codex units (not as awesome). From my limited understanding, aren't 'Lords of Contagion' the DG equivalent of a Chaos Lord? Don't they kinda fulfil the same role both in fluff and on the table?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Tau got shadow sun so there's still hope for a new Ghazgul.

As a former orkboy, i'd damn well hope so, but better yet, in an actual kit for a megaarmor warboss.

Now don't you go breaking my Orky heart boys! Hope is the first step to what again?

E - on the whole 'DG getting stuff' discussion - I think the main argument GW will put forward for NOT giving them Venomcrawlers, MoP, Gtr Possessed and/or Chaos Lords is to keep the range distinct. It's the curse of splitting off and becoming your own codex - you get a new range with tons of new models (awesome) but you lose access to some of the traditional codex units (not as awesome). From my limited understanding, aren't 'Lords of Contagion' the DG equivalent of a Chaos Lord? Don't they kinda fulfil the same role both in fluff and on the table?

Likewise if the masters of possession are expert daemon engine builders, wouldn't they be busy crafting blight drones and plague burst crawlers for everyone else? I agree that they need to be kept distinct from chaos marines and the further they drive that wedge in by excluding units, the better imo.

This is dangerously close to off topic though so to pull it back, if we follow the assumption of a book a month and historically new editions launch late May - July, at most we should expect another 2-3 psychic awakening if there were to be a new edition on the cards?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:


From my limited understanding, aren't 'Lords of Contagion' the DG equivalent of a Chaos Lord? Don't they kinda fulfil the same role both in fluff and on the table?

Nope, they do not command (= no buffing troops), shoot at all nor move anywhere after teleporting in. They only smash things, if they manage to catch them. Fluffwise they are one type of accomplished officers, in this case distinguished by being angry smashers, whereas other kinds get other titles... which we cannot represent because the basic Lord is feeble and for reasons doesn't even have access to a manreaper for style.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
From my limited understanding, aren't 'Lords of Contagion' the DG equivalent of a Chaos Lord? Don't they kinda fulfil the same role both in fluff and on the table?

Yes, but it's a distinction without meaning.

The book has both Lords of Contagion and Chaos Lords. What would have made far more sense is to simply have a single "Lord of Contagion" entry that has access to both the Manreaper and Plaguereaper, as well as all the regular weapons a Terminator Lord could get (combi-weapons, fist/chainfist/axe/lightning claws/etc.). But, because the Chaos Lord model isn't a specific Death Guard Chaos Lord model, he gets a separate entry and none of the Death Guard specific rules. This applies to the Terminator Sorcerer as well. Nothing stopped them from putting "Malignant Plaguecaster in Terminator Armour" as an entry in the Codex, and letting you use the Termy Sorc model to rep him... except it's not actually a Plaguecaster in Terminator Armour, so it gets no rules.

GW's fear of 3rd parties has made them less creative and stifled modelling opportunities. It's asinine and so incredibly frustrating.

Assuming PA5 = DG / GSC / Tau only, that leaves us with:

AdMech
Custodes
Deathwatch
Imperial Guard
Imperial Knights
Inquisition?
Sisters
Space Wolves
Harlequins
Necrons
Orks
Daemons
Chaos Knights

At 3 factions per book and one book per month, that means:
March = PA6
April = PA7
May = PA8
June = PA9

Adepticon (late March) would be the earliest I'd expect them to confirm a new edition.

I'd expect 9th to be a September release, assuming such a thing exists. I'd also expect it to very Soul Wars-y, that being just an update to the existing rules rather than a full-on reset.

And I think that the Psychic Awakening books are 100% meant to get every army updated prior to the launch of 9th, which certainly would explain their accelerated release date.

Dudeface wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Tau got shadow sun so there's still hope for a new Ghazgul.

As a former orkboy, i'd damn well hope so, but better yet, in an actual kit for a megaarmor warboss.

Now don't you go breaking my Orky heart boys! Hope is the first step to what again?

E - on the whole 'DG getting stuff' discussion - I think the main argument GW will put forward for NOT giving them Venomcrawlers, MoP, Gtr Possessed and/or Chaos Lords is to keep the range distinct. It's the curse of splitting off and becoming your own codex - you get a new range with tons of new models (awesome) but you lose access to some of the traditional codex units (not as awesome). From my limited understanding, aren't 'Lords of Contagion' the DG equivalent of a Chaos Lord? Don't they kinda fulfil the same role both in fluff and on the table?

Likewise if the masters of possession are expert daemon engine builders, wouldn't they be busy crafting blight drones and plague burst crawlers for everyone else? I agree that they need to be kept distinct from chaos marines and the further they drive that wedge in by excluding units, the better imo.

This is dangerously close to off topic though so to pull it back, if we follow the assumption of a book a month and historically new editions launch late May - July, at most we should expect another 2-3 psychic awakening if there were to be a new edition on the cards?

actually they aren't, they are expert fleshcrafters, the engines are mostly done by warpsmiths, the two branches work with one another but they have fundamental doctrinal issues with one another, e.g. see shadowspear booklet.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Now don't you go breaking my Orky heart boys! Hope is the first step to what again?

Sorry your warboss release will be replaced by a canoness release!

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
From my limited understanding, aren't 'Lords of Contagion' the DG equivalent of a Chaos Lord? Don't they kinda fulfil the same role both in fluff and on the table?

To put it in ork terms, the warboss and the wartrike have more in common than a Lord of Corruption and a Chaos Lord.

Fluff wise, Death Guard have three kinds of lords, Lords of Contagions carry mantles bestowed on them by Mortarion and are fighters that walk into battle (similar to the Emperor's Champion or Master of Executions), Lord of Poxes are in charge of air support and spreading diseases (no model support) and Lords of Virulence which are leading troops and artillery into battle, which would be represented by Chaos Lords.

On the battlefield, Lord of Corruptions are melee beatsticks without any ranged weapons (not even grenades), 4" movement and halved advances. It's only use is deep striking it into the enemy army as distraction carnifex and hope you make that 9" charge without any help. It also has an aura that does squat 50% of the time and is out of range of enemy models the other 50%.
Chaos Lords, on the other hand, provide all our plasma and daemon engines with re-rolls of one and usually get the Arch-Contaminator warlord trait to re-roll to wound rolls for plague weapons.

What most DG players are complaining about that T5/DR should be the baseline for all Death Guard space marines. Plague Marines, all five elite characters, both kinds of terminators, plaguecaster, LoC have it. Just the sorcerer, the chaos lord and possessed don't, which makes zero sense fluff-wise and surprising almost everyone you play against.
Obviously such an improvement isn't for free, but then again, the impact would be minimal. Even a stratagem that gives an infantry unit +1T and DR for CP would be fine.

They may well replace generic Chaos Lords with other mantle-wearing leaders in the future. I'd like to see that happen

Not Online!!! wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Tau got shadow sun so there's still hope for a new Ghazgul.

As a former orkboy, i'd damn well hope so, but better yet, in an actual kit for a megaarmor warboss.

Now don't you go breaking my Orky heart boys! Hope is the first step to what again?

E - on the whole 'DG getting stuff' discussion - I think the main argument GW will put forward for NOT giving them Venomcrawlers, MoP, Gtr Possessed and/or Chaos Lords is to keep the range distinct. It's the curse of splitting off and becoming your own codex - you get a new range with tons of new models (awesome) but you lose access to some of the traditional codex units (not as awesome). From my limited understanding, aren't 'Lords of Contagion' the DG equivalent of a Chaos Lord? Don't they kinda fulfil the same role both in fluff and on the table?

Likewise if the masters of possession are expert daemon engine builders, wouldn't they be busy crafting blight drones and plague burst crawlers for everyone else? I agree that they need to be kept distinct from chaos marines and the further they drive that wedge in by excluding units, the better imo.

This is dangerously close to off topic though so to pull it back, if we follow the assumption of a book a month and historically new editions launch late May - July, at most we should expect another 2-3 psychic awakening if there were to be a new edition on the cards?

actually they aren't, they are expert fleshcrafters, the engines are mostly done by warpsmiths, the two branches work with one another but they have fundamental doctrinal issues with one another, e.g. see shadowspear booklet.

Don't suppose you want to elaborate on these fundamental doctrinal issues in the Background forum?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
From my limited understanding, aren't 'Lords of Contagion' the DG equivalent of a Chaos Lord? Don't they kinda fulfil the same role both in fluff and on the table?

Yes, but it's a distinction without meaning.

The book has both Lords of Contagion and Chaos Lords. What would have made far more sense is to simply have a single "Lord of Contagion" entry that has access to both the Manreaper and Plaguereaper, as well as all the regular weapons a Terminator Lord could get (combi-weapons, fist/chainfist/axe/lightning claws/etc.). But, because the Chaos Lord model isn't a specific Death Guard Chaos Lord model, he gets a separate entry and none of the Death Guard specific rules. This applies to the Terminator Sorcerer as well. Nothing stopped them from putting "Malignant Plaguecaster in Terminator Armour" as an entry in the Codex, and letting you use the Termy Sorc model to rep him... except it's not actually a Plaguecaster in Terminator Armour, so it gets no rules.

GW's fear of 3rd parties has made them less creative and stifled modelling opportunities. It's asinine and so incredibly frustrating.

First, that's a false analogy, as there is both a sorcerer and a malignant plague caster in Codex: Death Guard.
Second, Thousand Sons sorcerer has "favor of tzeench" as a special rule and an Inferno Pistol, despite use the same model as everyone, how is that not a problem, but +1T and DR is?
So no, chapter house has nothing to do with this.

There are no marines in the Death Guard from outside the legion. Every single one of them should have a plague marine statline. In addition, the Death Guard value toughness as one of their highest qualities. Someone less tough than rank&file marines would never have been elevated into a position of power.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Not Online!!! wrote:
actually they aren't, they are expert fleshcrafters, the engines are mostly done by warpsmiths, the two branches work with one another but they have fundamental doctrinal issues with one another, e.g. see shadowspear booklet.

Which makes them an even better fit for Death Guard (who don't have warpsmiths)?

 Jidmah wrote:
First, that's a false analogy...

No it's not. I'm not even sure I'd call what I said an analogy in the first place.

 Jidmah wrote:
... as there is both a sorcerer and a malignant plague caster in Codex: Death Guard.

I know. I said as much. The same thing applies. There shouldn't be a "Chaos Sorcerer" and a "Terminator Sorcerer" in the Death Guard book that don't get Death Guard rules. The very notion is ludicrous and only comes about because this model, and this model, and this model aren't specific "Death Guard" miniatures, so they get treated like second class citizens in their own Codex.

 Jidmah wrote:
So no, chapter house has nothing to do with this.

CHS has everything to do with this. It has coloured GW's miniatures and game design since it occurred. It's why we have so many redundant unit entries in Codices, as Codices now have to have specific entries for specific miniatures (Captain in Armour X, Captain in Armour Y, Captain in Armour Z, and so on). It's why their miniatures are less and less modular and more monopose. It's the reason why everything has triple- or quadruple-barrelled Adjective Nounverb names these days. Everything they do stems from the abject terror 3rd party bitz makers inject into their core.

 Jidmah wrote:
There are no marines in the Death Guard from outside the legion. Every single one of them should have a plague marine statline.

Except they don't. A small group of them are just regular CSMs stuck in the Death Guard Codex because they don't have specific Death Guard minis.

Technically there is a 1kSons sorcerer model that is specifically a 1kSons sorcerer model out of the Exalted Sorcerer box. If you go to the GW webstore they don't include a standard CSM sorcerer just the exalted box.

So unlike the DG, 1kSons actually have a specific model your supposed to use which is why their regular sorcerer gets to be in the club.

But I also don't think the design philosophy of the DG was continued much past them. With needing a specific model to get specific rules. Because everything in the DG book should get DR without paying points or needing a specific DG themed model(cites new spaces marines).

Warhammer Community's Instagram put up a picture of some Chaos Knights a couple hours ago:

https://www.instagram.com/p/B7qb8h5oSAY/

Might be a clue for what's in store tonight.