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Well, and wait for the Chapter Approved FAQ too (whenever that thing comes around).

Most people assume the point hike for Ogryns was really meant for Bullgryns

That too.

I have bunch of bullgryns but won't hurry to paint them to use with this in mind. Now if it's verified might get some to cover my retributors...

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Bullgryn strat is great, but it's value is almost exclusively in soup IMO, not so much in pure Guard (except maybe some gamey ITC Engineers shenanigans).

To save AM characters, you're probably better off with an Ogryn Bodyguard, especially since snipers could bait that stratagem with (usually) several squishy AM infantry characters about.

Using Bullgryns to shield a pricey allied unit seems to pay off more, especially if you can stack it with another -1 from AdMech Stygies VIII in imperial soup or a Malanthrope in a GSC/Nids soup.

I don't know, doesn't seem like a bad idea for HWQ, Command Squads, Veteran Squads and the like.

Granted, they'll probably still be toast after one round against most shooty armies, but the enemy will have to invest more of his shooting into it.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Bullgryn strat is great, but it's value is almost exclusively in soup IMO, not so much in pure Guard (except maybe some gamey ITC Engineers shenanigans).

To save AM characters, you're probably better off with an Ogryn Bodyguard, especially since snipers could bait that stratagem with (usually) several squishy AM infantry characters about.

Using Bullgryns to shield a pricey allied unit seems to pay off more, especially if you can stack it with another -1 from AdMech Stygies VIII in imperial soup or a Malanthrope in a GSC/Nids soup.

Ironically this makes the bullgryn stratagem the best GSC rule they've previewed so far.

Why yes, I will take brood brother bullgryns to get free -1 to hits on my Purestrains. They're one of the few units that aren't strictly worse in BB than they are in AM.

In an actual guard army the Bulgryn strat is only really useful for scion units. It's not enough to protect your characters from eliminators, especially not raven guard and it is useless with regular infantry squads since each bulgryn costs more then a 10 man squad. So if your using a min squad to help protect infantry, you could have just taken another 30 infantry insetad.

Scions on the other hand are often on the front lines where the bulgryn want to be, and usually have problems sticking around once they drop in, this would allow you to drop your scions in behind a shield wall and between take cover and this strat +any psychic powers your at least making the other guy think a bit when he considers target priority.

Well, at least we might see some cool looking GSC Bullgryn conversions.

Focus on the Imperial Guard.

I think there are far too many weapons in 8th that have very "swingy" shots. The idea that you can walk up to a group of infantry with a flamethrower and only hit one seems a bit silly to me, and the idea that the mighty Battle Cannon might only hit 1 person, and still can miss is just crazy talk. There need to be more D3+1 or D3+6 or D6+whatever weapon types out there to make things a bit more consistent and less random.

Of course, that's my opinion. He's GW's solution:


And some other things:

Oh yeah, my artillery is going to like jury rigged repairs and reroll the number of shots. Tank Ace thingy also seems legit.

Hmmm. Tank ace+gunnery experts could make baneblades much nastier.

I like it.

Can't give Tank Aces to GSC, that would obviously be way too broken

 Riddip wrote:
Can't give Tank Aces to GSC, that would obviously be way too broken

Obviously. But here's hoping for an equivalent for r&h in the fw rework.

I love how they had to exclude broodbros from tank aces, apparently there has never been a tank ace fallen to the cult Man GSC can't catch a break.

There seems to be some fun stuff in there. I don't think the game needed more overwatching on a 5+, and now guard vehicles have better living metal/demonic resilience then Necrons of chaos with jury rigging. It's also a bit awkward that they named it the exact same thing as the stratagem "jury rigging" but at least they are trying to make the tanks better and sentinels got a bump which is nice.

All in all I'd say the guard preview is the best yet as it clearly attempts to patch the short comings and issues folks have been having while not being overly good. Hopefully the rest of the book matches this and GSC and Tau both level out to this result.

What are the downsides to all this stuff?

Dukeofstuff wrote:
What are the downsides to all this stuff?

GSC can't use them?

And even more stuff:

Oh goody. So now we have scions who are better terror troops than the Night Lords. Makes complete fething sense.

Dukeofstuff wrote:
What are the downsides to all this stuff?

Eh downside? You expect gw to put downside to free bonuses?

 Red Corsair wrote:
I love how they had to exclude broodbros from tank aces, apparently there has never been a tank ace fallen to the cult Man GSC can't catch a break.

I was actually really happy with that wording.

Really happy to see Scions getting doctrines, finally.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dukeofstuff wrote:
What are the downsides to all this stuff?

You pick two of them but it locks you out of Regimental Relics, Orders, and characters.

Lol. Two minor variations on exploding 6s?

GW's taking a piss at this point, no?

At least slightly different tactically

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Lol. Two minor variations on exploding 6s?

GW's taking a piss at this point, no?

Spoiler:

Don't they already have the first one?

No, the current one is an extra shot.

 Red Corsair wrote:
I love how they had to exclude broodbros from tank aces, apparently there has never been a tank ace fallen to the cult Man GSC can't catch a break.

There seems to be some fun stuff in there. I don't think the game needed more overwatching on a 5+, and now guard vehicles have better living metal/demonic resilience then Necrons of chaos with jury rigging. It's also a bit awkward that they named it the exact same thing as the stratagem "jury rigging" but at least they are trying to make the tanks better and sentinels got a bump which is nice.

All in all I'd say the guard preview is the best yet as it clearly attempts to patch the short comings and issues folks have been having while not being overly good. Hopefully the rest of the book matches this and GSC and Tau both level out to this result.

I'd say the Tau one looked really good to me, but I don't know enough about AM to say whether losing your warlord trait for Tank Aces is a good trade in the way it's an auto take for Tyranids and Adaptive Physioligy.

I also noticed they specifically said there are only 12 regimental doctrines for AM, thats quite a lot less than we've seen for most other factions. Then again, Craftworlds have something like 25 but at least 15 of them are useless, so hopefully this time they actually stopped when they ran out of good ideas.

So, I wonder if these are replacements to the standard scion trait?

And if so, holy mooooly are these new guard rules the ultimate in lazitude.

Literally half the rules they're previewing, the new ones they're showing ahead of time to get you pumped, are copy-pastes of stuff that exists in the codex.

Yowza.

"Here, just...take the ability to reshuffle the different halves of your regiment traits and take what you want. Go away, inferior NPC race!"

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
I love how they had to exclude broodbros from tank aces, apparently there has never been a tank ace fallen to the cult Man GSC can't catch a break.

I was actually really happy with that wording.

Really happy to see Scions getting doctrines, finally.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dukeofstuff wrote:
What are the downsides to all this stuff?

You pick two of them but it locks you out of Regimental Relics, Orders, and characters.

So baneblades could have gunnery experts and jury rigged repairs? With the points drop from ca that's starting to make them look very nice.

Basically a new version of veteran of the scouring from the old legacy of ruin fw infernal relics rules.

the_scotsman wrote:
So, I wonder if these are replacements to the standard scion trait?

And if so, holy mooooly are these new guard rules the ultimate in lazitude.

Literally half the rules they're previewing, the new ones they're showing ahead of time to get you pumped, are copy-pastes of stuff that exists in the codex.

Yowza.

"Here, just...take the ability to reshuffle the different halves of your regiment traits and take what you want. Go away, inferior NPC race!"

To be fair doesn't that apply to the Space Marine and Craftworlds lists as well? The Tyranids list is the only one that seems to be all unique, but they are considered universally terrible as well.

Eldar popular ones are one they didn't have access a all before

 Imateria wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
So, I wonder if these are replacements to the standard scion trait?

And if so, holy mooooly are these new guard rules the ultimate in lazitude.

Literally half the rules they're previewing, the new ones they're showing ahead of time to get you pumped, are copy-pastes of stuff that exists in the codex.

Yowza.

"Here, just...take the ability to reshuffle the different halves of your regiment traits and take what you want. Go away, inferior NPC race!"

To be fair doesn't that apply to the Space Marine and Craftworlds lists as well? The Tyranids list is the only one that seems to be all unique, but they are considered universally terrible as well.

4/19 of the custom successor chapter traits appear in the normal chapter traits.

IDK how much of the craftworld list was part of the original craftworlds' traits. I don't think any? Unless something like bieltan snuck in there and I didnt' notice.

the_scotsman wrote:


4/19 of the custom successor chapter traits appear in the normal chapter traits.

IDK how much of the craftworld list was part of the original craftworlds' traits. I don't think any? Unless something like bieltan snuck in there and I didnt' notice.

nah. Should be more than 4

Master Artisan - part of Salamanders
Born Heros - part of Space Wolves
Hungry for Battle - part of Blood Angels
Indomitable - part of Dark Angels
Scions of Forge - a third of Iron Hands
5++ vs. Mortals - part of Black Templars
Psychic re-rolls - part of Blood Ravens
Tactical Withdrawl - part of White Scars

Probably more

Sunny Side Up wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:


4/19 of the custom successor chapter traits appear in the normal chapter traits.

IDK how much of the craftworld list was part of the original craftworlds' traits. I don't think any? Unless something like bieltan snuck in there and I didnt' notice.

nah. Should be more than 4

Master Artisan - part of Salamanders
Born Heros - part of Space Wolves
Hungry for Battle - part of Blood Angels
Indomitable - part of Dark Angels
Scions of Forge - a third of Iron Hands
5++ vs. Mortals - part of Black Templars
Psychic re-rolls - part of Blood Ravens
Tactical Withdrawl - part of White Scars

Probably more

Right, sorry. Forgot that different codexes count as the same codex when it's convenient, and different codexes when it's inconvenient.

Craftworlds didn't get copy/paste traits from their own codex, but they did get a bunch of copypastes from other codexes, because the original tactics they had didn't get the upgrades that marines' CTs did.

So if you did a copy/paste of Ulthwe, currently 1/3 of the IH chapter tactic, they'd have to port the whole thing over. instead of that, they gave them the 6++ custom trait.

I'm being dim, I think – when do you roll to determine the Type of a weapon?