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2019/09/27 03:20:17
Subject: First novel that every 40K newbie should read?
No, its a good book but its a terribly warped view of the Guard, and this is why we have people legitimately thinking that the average Guardsman dies within hours of being on the battlefield.
Good thing real life isn't like that...
(WW1 life expectancy 6 weeks for junior officers, however note that could be widely variable depending on when you deployed to the firing trench. Now something like Stalingrad on the other hand was far worse, with life expediencies of 24 hours with the first trial - simply getting to the city - claiming many men.)
Exactly, it varies, but people have taken up claiming this as a fact for every battlefield the Guard is involved in.
No, its a good book but its a terribly warped view of the Guard, and this is why we have people legitimately thinking that the average Guardsman dies within hours of being on the battlefield.
TangoTwoBravo wrote: Good question - some helpful answers above along with some not so helpful ones.
How old is the reader? If it’s a young blood then any of the Start Reading books should work. Short and snappy.
If it s an older initiate then the playbook widens. The first three books of the Horus Heresy are great - the first stands on its own and establishes what a Space Marine is. On the other hand, perhaps save that for later.
Anything Dan Abnett or Dembeski is going to be a good start.They get it.
For a 40k focus the Gav Thorpe Dark Angels trilogy is very well done and gives a walk through of what it means to be a Space Marine, albeit with an Unforgiven focus.
Hey there. Thanks for the reply. I am in my late 30's. Love to read.
I've heard great things about Abnett. I own the first HH book, just haven't cracked it yet. TBH I've read about half of the Space Wolves Omnibus and really enjoyed it, just got distracted half way through with another book I had to read for work.
There are SO MANY books that it can be quite intimidating to choose the good ones. These responses have really helped narrow things down a bit.
2019/09/27 08:00:07
Subject: First novel that every 40K newbie should read?
I'll buy that and raise you A Canticle For Liebowitz and Starship Troopers.
To "get the joke" of 40k, or understand the baseline narrative mechanic of most of the setting, requires a familiarity with "shown not told" dramatic irony that is generally not present in a lot of more contemporary books that I've found.
Yeah, I think it really is important to read the classic sci-fi that 'inspired' Warhammer 40,000. It gives you the reference for where a lot of the elements of the setting came from and why 40k creators included them in their universe. Also, they are really good reads.
I would add Asimov's Foundation.
The issue with this is that it means you're starting them off near the peak of science fiction literature and then pushing them down that mountain to reach the Black Library level of writing
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
2019/09/27 12:09:25
Subject: First novel that every 40K newbie should read?
I'll buy that and raise you A Canticle For Liebowitz and Starship Troopers.
To "get the joke" of 40k, or understand the baseline narrative mechanic of most of the setting, requires a familiarity with "shown not told" dramatic irony that is generally not present in a lot of more contemporary books that I've found.
Yeah, I think it really is important to read the classic sci-fi that 'inspired' Warhammer 40,000. It gives you the reference for where a lot of the elements of the setting came from and why 40k creators included them in their universe. Also, they are really good reads.
I would add Asimov's Foundation.
The issue with this is that it means you're starting them off near the peak of science fiction literature and then pushing them down that mountain to reach the Black Library level of writing
Yeah I mean, ideally they just continue to read good pulp sci-fi books, grungy cyberpunk, lovecraftian horror and postapocalyptic grimdark.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2019/09/27 12:27:45
Subject: First novel that every 40K newbie should read?
None. The 40K setting is too vast for any one book to be considered a good starting point. Unsurprisingly almost everyone here is suggesting books focused on the Imperium, which for me is the least interesting aspect of 40K. As Drukhari is my main army, Path of the Dark Eldar has become an essential read and I'd recommend it to any one with the slightest interest in the faction, but if you have no interest in the faction then don't bother.
2019/09/27 14:04:32
Subject: Re:First novel that every 40K newbie should read?
I'm not QUITE with bacon, but.... Gaunt's Ghosts wasn't awful but it wasn't unputdownable either....
I tried an assortment of others... Abnett was OK for a long train journey or where there were no other options.... Goto was I'm afraid abysmal … I tried and failed to finish many others.
Your mileage may of course vary. Starship troopers and the ilk are much better, but even that is not unputdownable.
Sorry!
2019/09/27 15:12:36
Subject: First novel that every 40K newbie should read?
Second Helsreach - its a great novel, and a big battle.
Yoy can renact various scenes with your own models.
Get a good insight into many of the different Imperial forces, how and why they work together (or not).
Ad Mech /Titans
Astartes
Sororitas
Millitarium
Navy
and how Orks wage war.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
I always thought that The Forever War was much better than Starship Troopers, though the militarism of Starship Troopers is more thematically similar to 40K than the anti-war themes of The Forever War.
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
2019/09/27 16:33:25
Subject: First novel that every 40K newbie should read?
evil_kiwi_60 wrote:Rynn’s World is very good too.
I was coming in to recommend that book specifically because it's the lowest possible point you could come in at. After that, EVERY BL book looks great. I find it funny the author couldn't even keep accurate accounts of major character deaths when referenced in his own book.
For a SERIOUS good read, get Flight of the Eisenstein.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/28 10:54:39
I found Double Eagle and Titanicus to be enjoyable. There are other 40k books I have greatly enjoyed too, like The Inquisition War trilogy and Eye of Terror, but it can be pretty hard to jump into the lore without picking up books related to armies you enjoy.
2019/09/27 19:23:33
Subject: First novel that every 40K newbie should read?
I think Death of Integrity is a good 'jumping in the deep end' story that gives you a window into how the mechanicus, astartes and Imperium at large operates while showing off some of the cool staples of the universe (genestealers, space hulks) in detail.
The first Ciaphas Cain book is available in audiobook form and is probably the perfect choice for a newbie: fast paced, engaging, and generally good fun.
I actually read Gaunts Ghosts first. Eisenhorn is pretty awesome. But honestly, it has to be the Horus Heresy. Have just started the Blood Angels (Rafen) Omnibus (my kinda chapter!), but I'd definitely recommend the first few novels of the Horus Heresy. Just puts everything into context and is also brilliantly written.
Certainly not "the first" I'd recommend to anyone, and not even the first HH novel, but I absolutely would recommend Know No Fear as an early reading choice for any Ultramarine enthusiast. Not the first, by any means, but within the top 5, I think.
They/them
2019/09/28 11:54:36
Subject: Re:First novel that every 40K newbie should read?
Now that I'm back home with my bookshelf I also recommend Baneblade as a possible "first read" if Space Marines are not your thing. You get a view of the Guard, life on two worlds, Orks, the Mechanicus dudes and, of course, Baneblades!
All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand
2019/09/28 14:55:22
Subject: Re:First novel that every 40K newbie should read?
HoundsofDemos wrote: Eisenhorn trilogy. It captures so much of the 40k universe perfectly.
Certainly not. I would strongly advise against this overrated non 40k fan fiction for a beginner. The Big Black Book is certainly the best option and then I guess we have good ones here.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/28 14:55:37
HoundsofDemos wrote: Eisenhorn trilogy. It captures so much of the 40k universe perfectly.
Certainly not. I would strongly advise against this overrated non 40k fan fiction for a beginner. The Big Black Book is certainly the best option and then I guess we have good ones here.
Can you go into a little more detail. I'd hardly consider an official novel by someone who is considered to be one of BLs best a fan fiction. As for the rule book, it gives a quick over view but hardly has the details needed to flesh out a faction.
2019/09/28 16:41:07
Subject: First novel that every 40K newbie should read?
Something like 1984 is nice thing to start. This, only in space, is a good way to explain someone how the human part of w40k works. But that is kind of a cheating, as it is part of classic literature people have to read anyway.
I really liked a set of multiple books about a female Arbitor High Judge, don't remember the title, but they were really good at showing how different adepturs work, interact with each other and what happens in situations like fest X says no work, but there is a raging fire outside etc.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
2019/09/28 16:55:05
Subject: First novel that every 40K newbie should read?
Hymn Before Battle by John Ringo has a decent 40k vibe to it. It starts out today, and introduces modern characters to a outlandish (and brutal) ET war.
The movie 'Event Horizon' is a good one for showing the horrors of the warp (and there are whispers that it almost was a 40k movie anyway)
The Forever War is decent, and will show your newbie what they can expect if they stay with the hobby (how strategies and tactics can change over time).
If you are limited to the BL Library rules though. the Cain series is definitely a high point for me and it showcases how you are probably going to play your first couple games; holding your support characters back while committing your essential forces first.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/28 16:58:11
'No plan survives contact with the enemy. Who are we?'
'THE ENEMY!!!'
The Eisenhorn trilogy (and the following Ravenor trilogy) are rather science fiction books. Even if you don't especially like or know the 40K univers they still make a good read in my opinion.
The Gaunt Ghost series has several of my favorite books of 40K fiction, but being heavily guard centric facing against other guard-like equivalent. It doesn"t make it very typical of 40K promotional material which is totally centered on Space Marines.
Path of the Eldar is a vert good trilogy in my opinion which present a very rare case of a "character based" story in which the character changes and emotional turmoil make the story. It's a good representation of the traditionnal Craftworld Eldar society.
I personnaly dislike Space Marines. I find them boring and unappealing hence my growing disengagement from the 40K community, but if I had to pick some good first read about them, I would suggest something like Hellsreach and its sequel.
2019/09/28 19:04:02
Subject: First novel that every 40K newbie should read?
Was sure I posted already but another vote for "Eisenhorn is over-rated".
The only 40k novels I've read based on 40k that I've enjoyed is the Sisters Of Battles books. I agree with the people saying that even the best BL novels are only somewhere slightly above average. You need to REALLY like something about the books subject if you want to enjoy it. Even then...I mean I love the Guard but some of those Dark Imperium tie in novels were a struggle. I got through the Devastation of Baal because yay nids but eventually every books seems to dissolve into "...and then the main character got horribly wounded but managed to keep fighting while loads of cannon fodder on both sides died everywhere".
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/09/28 19:11:40
2019/09/29 22:29:05
Subject: First novel that every 40K newbie should read?
Sim-Life wrote: Was sure I posted already but another vote for "Eisenhorn is over-rated".
The only 40k novels I've read based on 40k that I've enjoyed is the Sisters Of Battles books. I agree with the people saying that even the best BL novels are only somewhere slightly above average. You need to REALLY like something about the books subject if you want to enjoy it. Even then...I mean I love the Guard but some of those Dark Imperium tie in novels were a struggle. I got through the Devastation of Baal because yay nids but eventually every books seems to dissolve into "...and then the main character got horribly wounded but managed to keep fighting while loads of cannon fodder on both sides died everywhere".
Devastation of baal absolutely did not dissolve into "...and then the main character got horribly wounded but managed to keep fighting while loads of cannon fodder on both sides died everywhere".
Spoiler:
The BA are Fu(ked, Dante and the rest were very clearly going to die they could not keep fighting, they were overrun, the Arc's Angelicum all but destroyed they did not heroically save them selves, Dante was wounded but after a sustained siege it would be tough to believe that he wouldn't be and he didn't keep fighting on, simply saw the Sanguinor/Sanguinious and passed out IIRC. Only a fortuitous demon army spawning and timely arrival from the Indomitus Crusade saved them.
I would recommend it, but not as a first read.
I do wish to lead more SOB books what do you suggest as a starting point there?
I jumped straight in with Dark Imperium, 1 & 2 as my first series, but I already had a solid amount of 40k background.
Building towards 1000pts
2019/09/30 09:56:22
Subject: Re:First novel that every 40K newbie should read?
TangoTwoBravo wrote: Now that I'm back home with my bookshelf I also recommend Baneblade as a possible "first read" if Space Marines are not your thing. You get a view of the Guard, life on two worlds, Orks, the Mechanicus dudes and, of course, Baneblades!
I've read Baneblade and Shadowsword. The former was definitely better than the latter, can't really say too much good about the latter, but the former was fairly decent as far as low-quality novels go.
That said, if you really want to get into the Guard spirit... try finding some manuals for infantry antitank tactics [or videos about manuals about infantry antitank tactics]. They tend to have advice that seems exactly like something a Guardsman would be told ["The tank's primary effect is on morale, and it is not effective against infantry with it's main gun."]
As I said earlier though, if you're looking for a fun, quick, and not too thought intensive read, basically any BL novel will do. They're not paragons of literary merit, but many of them can at least be fun to read. But if you're new to the hobby and want to get an idea of the universe, don't start with anything BL. Start with the big rule book, and your codex. The novels aren't worth much in that respect, and aren't consistent between each other anyway, because it's a lot of different people's interpretations on different things without any real consistency checking, and are secondary as a source to the rulebooks, campaign books, and codecies anyway.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/30 10:01:35
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
2019/09/30 17:17:12
Subject: First novel that every 40K newbie should read?
Sim-Life wrote: Was sure I posted already but another vote for "Eisenhorn is over-rated".
The only 40k novels I've read based on 40k that I've enjoyed is the Sisters Of Battles books. I agree with the people saying that even the best BL novels are only somewhere slightly above average. You need to REALLY like something about the books subject if you want to enjoy it. Even then...I mean I love the Guard but some of those Dark Imperium tie in novels were a struggle. I got through the Devastation of Baal because yay nids but eventually every books seems to dissolve into "...and then the main character got horribly wounded but managed to keep fighting while loads of cannon fodder on both sides died everywhere".
Devastation of baal absolutely did not dissolve into "...and then the main character got horribly wounded but managed to keep fighting while loads of cannon fodder on both sides died everywhere".
Spoiler:
The BA are Fu(ked, Dante and the rest were very clearly going to die they could not keep fighting, they were overrun, the Arc's Angelicum all but destroyed they did not heroically save them selves, Dante was wounded but after a sustained siege it would be tough to believe that he wouldn't be and he didn't keep fighting on, simply saw the Sanguinor/Sanguinious and passed out IIRC. Only a fortuitous demon army spawning and timely arrival from the Indomitus Crusade saved them.
I would recommend it, but not as a first read.
I do wish to lead more SOB books what do you suggest as a starting point there?
I jumped straight in with Dark Imperium, 1 & 2 as my first series, but I already had a solid amount of 40k background.
Given that there's only like 3 SoB novels of note its not like there's a lot of ways you can go wrong. Buy the omnibus and that's you done. As I said, they aren't amazing but if you have an interest in the factions they're good. Two things I liked about the SoB books is that it gives you a look at the inner workings of the Ecclisiarchy and the canonness has a personal Immolator, something I would love to see in the codex in a similar role to a tank commander.
2019/10/06 21:10:27
Subject: First novel that every 40K newbie should read?
Given that there's only like 3 SoB novels of note its not like there's a lot of ways you can go wrong. Buy the omnibus and that's you done. As I said, they aren't amazing but if you have an interest in the factions they're good. Two things I liked about the SoB books is that it gives you a look at the inner workings of the Ecclisiarchy and the canonness has a personal Immolator, something I would love to see in the codex in a similar role to a tank commander.
Cheers,
I will take a look at the Omnibus, I've been looking at incorporating melee into my AD Mech list and am undecided on how to do that. I like the sisters as mentioned in the Dark Imperium, and do not simply want to attach some smash captains in a BA detachment. I need some more interesting/fluffy Melee to support my Cawl Castle.
Building towards 1000pts
2019/10/07 00:01:55
Subject: Re:First novel that every 40K newbie should read?
HoundsofDemos wrote: Eisenhorn trilogy. It captures so much of the 40k universe perfectly.
Certainly not. I would strongly advise against this overrated non 40k fan fiction for a beginner. The Big Black Book is certainly the best option and then I guess we have good ones here.
Can you go into a little more detail. I'd hardly consider an official novel by someone who is considered to be one of BLs best a fan fiction. As for the rule book, it gives a quick over view but hardly has the details needed to flesh out a faction.
useally when someone says a novel is "fan fiction" what they mean is "THIS CONDTRICITS MY HEAD CANON SO IT MIGHT AS WELL BE FAN FICTION" the irony of that apparently escapes them
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
2019/10/07 01:17:38
Subject: First novel that every 40K newbie should read?