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you make it sound like Eldar are the only army in 40k whose even been given their unit in a box first, Shadowspear came out nine months ago.. and Infiltrators are only just coming up for pre-order

I would actually really like if I finally could buy a venomcrawler or obliterators, heck even some possesed or a MoP....

For some factions, you could get away with a single model.
And you can flesh out every imperial faction with just units (tanks and such) from other places, giving them a new chance for sales and place to shine.

I do not get groups like sisters of silance, that really only need a HQ unit, and access to imperial tanks in there own list to make them viable.

Harlequinsb are in a similar place, access to some eldar tanks is really all they need. It seems like the ally forces stuff has made GW design dumb.

I would like it if you could as well, it's quite dumb they haven't put those models out solo yet.

Heck,I'm still waiting for that kill team Techpriest floating fat guy as I couldn't pick up that kill team and still sitting on some cheap but meh Engineseers and Dumpy but ever bountiful Dominuses everywhere.

Not Online!!! wrote:

you make it sound like Eldar are the only army in 40k whose even been given their unit in a box first, Shadowspear came out nine months ago.. and Infiltrators are only just coming up for pre-order

I would actually really like if I finally could buy a venomcrawler or obliterators, heck even some possesed or a MoP....

rumor has it they'll be the new chaos start collecting box due out in december.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AngryAngel80 wrote:
You keep on and on with that. Listen, let me build you a bridge so you can get over that. It was a crap box, that is what people are mad about. Had it been a great priced box, with sweet options, people would have said it was great.

It wasn't, as well these are models left to stagnate so long the originals may be able to drink on their own, or watch an R rated move without an adult. To place them in such an awful expensive box with crap selection is what people, me included, dislike.

Just because they do it with other factions doesn't make it better. Sometimes existing patterns can be kinda crap yes ? Just saying its a pattern doesn't mean its good or even mean you can't dislike it.

I would say you'd be hard pressed to find a post one from me disliking the shadowspear box, as you like to strut that one out there over and over and over. I bought it, but that is because it felt like a savings, the models for the most part had a point and it felt agreeable even if it was the first showing of some units. This eldar box, was not that. It was/is an over expensive grab bag of back stock with the only sell point being some redone models.

Hell even if they had made the whole kit nothing but new models I bet you people would have liked it more even with the price tag for that reason alone. The eldar box was not this, it was poopy poop the poop box.

Edit: @ Brian Davion

yes and I get it, but the fact is... I use shadowspear as an example because GW with 8th edition's got a pattern. Release box set with new units. wait 3-6 months then release unit in multipart set, often as part of a larger release.

Let's look at EVERY major release for 8th edition.


Primaris Marines: first introduced in Dark Imperium
Death Guard -Ditto
Custodes: we first saw then in burning of prosperio.
Knights: we got armaginers in forge bane.
Orks: Speed Freaks set.
GSCs: Tooth and Claw.

I'm not saying it doesn't suck, but GW's following a pattern we should reckongize

PenitentJake wrote:
Okay. Haven't read the whole thread, but tried to read most. Negativity gets to me.

Spoiler:

I've been waiting since 95 for GSC and since 2003 for sisters. I've already got one [and I LOVE it!]. The other drops in November. And that is freakin fantastic. Not sure I could be happier.
I've wanted to play both Eldar and Dark Eldar forever, but never bought anything; I've always hated resin, but Banshees and Incubi were actually two of my favourite units. And as for those falcons and vypers everyone has already? I don't. And I want them. And now I'm going to get them.

You can't say Xenos aren't supported after the PA drops. You can complain about the cost of the box, or even its contents. But four new units, a box set and a campaign book is NOT unsupported.

Did they talk about marines in Orktober? Sure. But you know what didn't happen? They didn't get a marines vs marines stand alone game with loads of new vehicle kits. but I seem to recall that happening for Orks, so again, NOT unsupported.

I too was POed about losses to Dark Eldar, but as much as I love Baron Sathonyx, Lady Malys, Duke Sliscus and Keradruahk, none of them ever had models, so it's not actually as much of a loss as it is made out to be. Yes, it probably means they are less likely to be realized, but I still have hope. The revival of the GSC after 22 years really does mean this edition is different and anything really is possible.

Heck, you've got a choice now between 3 different Rogue Traders for cryin out loud!

I also don't think it's at all fair to talk about the success or failure of PA after one book out of what will probably end up being a ten book set.

You know, I've lived through editions that felt far more marine dominant than this one. And under previous editions, there was always this threat of the dreaded reset button that would mean living through all those marine releases AGAIN, which was utterly terrifying. It's why I get filled with dread every time I see a thread wishing for a 9th ed. Because THAT is what leads to the marine spam more than anything else. I think GW has learned that the only way we're ever gonna get to Tau auxilia is if an edition lasts for a decade or so, and really? Hopefully the rest of my lifetime.

I bought enough product from this edition, and intend to continue doing so for as long as I am able, that I can single handedly supply my entire small group of friends with enough rules and models to keep us playing for as long as we have the will.

As for the GK/DW should not be their own armies arguments, I have to struggle to control my rage every time I see it. I want these armies, and I could care less that they don't win tournaments. They tell stories I want told, and I'm ecstatic that they exist- ESPECIALLY DW because back in the Witch Hunters/ Daemon Hunter days, they never got around to Xenos Hunters because of a stupid freakin edition reset. So technically that's a third army that I've been waiting for since the early 2000's that this addition has given me at last!

So forgive me if I say how dare you suggest they take away things I've wanted for decades now that I finally have them.

And we will get an Imperial Agents dex- the Apocalypse rules got a set of Imperial Agents cards as a free PDF. So far, they've laid the groundwork for Rogue Traders,Assassins and SoS; Inquistion is in next month's WD to finish off the set. I figure January might be the next PA drop, and it may be Imperial Agents. It will also coincide with the second wave of Sisters releases whenever it happens.

You probably should have read the thread, or at least my OP, so you had a vague idea of what my complaint is. I have not said anywhere that anything has been taken away.

You are comparing a apples and oranges when you claim that other factions are supported compared to Marines. Yes, Necrons had that paltry character in that boxed set that one time, oh and a forgeworld super heavy. Orks had 6 new buggies (that can't be used in competitive play because they are so awful) while losing more options in their codex. Craftworld Eldar have received a new character sculpt, a useless terrain piece and now Banshees and a singular special character. Dark Eldar have received Incubi and a singular special character. GSC did well, they got a vehicle unit, a biker unit and 5 or 6 characters IIRC. Tyranids have had 0 new model releases to my knowledge. Tau have had 0 new model releases to my knowledge. Harlies have had 0 new model releases to my knowledge. How many new model releases have Marines had this edition again? I've genuinely lost count.

It's not just the infinite model releases Marines enjoy either. They are the only faction, the only faction to have an actual v2 codex. They are, in addition, the only faction to have codex supplements for their sub-factions.

How is this in any way fair, equal or balanced? It's not even close. What I have been saying is that this disparity is such that it has actually driven me away from the hobby as a whole. I am so sick of the Marine releases and focus by GW that I am losing interest in the hobby generally. I can't be bothered to play, I can't be bothered to paint, I can't even be bothered to build. This has nothing to do with "Marine articles" or "Marine posts on a forum" like some of you incredibly claim. It's to do with the focus of GW and the fact that 95% of it is aimed at Marines. For me, if GW don't change their stance on this I will stop hobbying all together. I'm sure others will follow suit. This will hurt GWs bottom line and, more importantly, the hobby as a whole.

Focus on your gaming group, not the fact that GW has a daily news feed.

There’s plenty to engage you if you focus on fun rather than failing about things you can’t change. And don’t actually need to to have fun.

My point was and is, in my response to who I quoted, the box sucks. @Brian Davion

Yes its a pattern we all see but they over priced and under equipped that eldars box set and then over hyped it to heck and back. Of course Eldar players will feel they got a raw deal because it sucks. It's not a good buy, or a good feeling. When even chaos felt better handled, at least until chaos dex 2.0.

I'm not saying they got no attention, but someone saying "Hey be thankful you got anything at all and buy it ! " Isn't really a valid point. If I make the most amazing meal you've ever smelled, and try and serve it in an old sweaty inside of a pair of my gym shoes, I'm sure you'd choose to wait awhile for me offer that meal made again but this time on an actual clean and nicely appointed plate.

Then saying its the other factions fault they won't buy this over expensive box and have themselves to blame for no support off that, is really a bit dumb. That is all I'm saying.

I see the trend, I just think the trend sucks and it sucks hardest currently for Eldar players.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Focus on your gaming group, not the fact that GW has a daily news feed.

There’s plenty to engage you if you focus on fun rather than failing about things you can’t change. And don’t actually need to to have fun.

That's the "tragedy of the commons" mindset right there.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Focus on your gaming group, not the fact that GW has a daily news feed.

There’s plenty to engage you if you focus on fun rather than failing about things you can’t change. And don’t actually need to to have fun.

Its like I'm not even allowed to decide what I consider fun in this thread. Incredible.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Focus on your gaming group, not the fact that GW has a daily news feed.

There’s plenty to engage you if you focus on fun rather than failing about things you can’t change. And don’t actually need to to have fun.

Its like I'm not even allowed to decide what I consider fun in this thread. Incredible.

What did you expect. YOu play orkz an NPC faction-





--

-
Sarcasm off.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Focus on your gaming group, not the fact that GW has a daily news feed.

There’s plenty to engage you if you focus on fun rather than failing about things you can’t change. And don’t actually need to to have fun.

Its like I'm not even allowed to decide what I consider fun in this thread. Incredible.

Does your fun come in power armor ? If not, I recommend you buy a fresh new blood of the phoenix box set, that'll bring your fun back quick, fast and in a hurry. You're welcome my green friend.

AngryAngel80 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Focus on your gaming group, not the fact that GW has a daily news feed.

There’s plenty to engage you if you focus on fun rather than failing about things you can’t change. And don’t actually need to to have fun.

Its like I'm not even allowed to decide what I consider fun in this thread. Incredible.

Does your fun come in power armor ? If not, I recommend you buy a fresh new blood of the phoenix box set, that'll bring your fun back quick, fast and in a hurry. You're welcome my green friend.

Considering how, erm, bad the boxset is comparatively to other boxsets.
I doubt it.....

Listen, someone has to get it, he wants fun, I'll give him mine if he supports the box set so I can get more Dark Eldar kits. It's a win win.

I'll even give him some candy, that makes it better.

AngryAngel80 wrote:
Listen, someone has to get it, he wants fun, I'll give him mine if he supports the box set so I can get more Dark Eldar kits. It's a win win.

I'll even give him some candy, that makes it better.

Opportunists

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

PenitentJake wrote:
Okay. Haven't read the whole thread, but tried to read most. Negativity gets to me.

Spoiler:

I've been waiting since 95 for GSC and since 2003 for sisters. I've already got one [and I LOVE it!]. The other drops in November. And that is freakin fantastic. Not sure I could be happier.
I've wanted to play both Eldar and Dark Eldar forever, but never bought anything; I've always hated resin, but Banshees and Incubi were actually two of my favourite units. And as for those falcons and vypers everyone has already? I don't. And I want them. And now I'm going to get them.

You can't say Xenos aren't supported after the PA drops. You can complain about the cost of the box, or even its contents. But four new units, a box set and a campaign book is NOT unsupported.

Did they talk about marines in Orktober? Sure. But you know what didn't happen? They didn't get a marines vs marines stand alone game with loads of new vehicle kits. but I seem to recall that happening for Orks, so again, NOT unsupported.

I too was POed about losses to Dark Eldar, but as much as I love Baron Sathonyx, Lady Malys, Duke Sliscus and Keradruahk, none of them ever had models, so it's not actually as much of a loss as it is made out to be. Yes, it probably means they are less likely to be realized, but I still have hope. The revival of the GSC after 22 years really does mean this edition is different and anything really is possible.

Heck, you've got a choice now between 3 different Rogue Traders for cryin out loud!

I also don't think it's at all fair to talk about the success or failure of PA after one book out of what will probably end up being a ten book set.

You know, I've lived through editions that felt far more marine dominant than this one. And under previous editions, there was always this threat of the dreaded reset button that would mean living through all those marine releases AGAIN, which was utterly terrifying. It's why I get filled with dread every time I see a thread wishing for a 9th ed. Because THAT is what leads to the marine spam more than anything else. I think GW has learned that the only way we're ever gonna get to Tau auxilia is if an edition lasts for a decade or so, and really? Hopefully the rest of my lifetime.

I bought enough product from this edition, and intend to continue doing so for as long as I am able, that I can single handedly supply my entire small group of friends with enough rules and models to keep us playing for as long as we have the will.

As for the GK/DW should not be their own armies arguments, I have to struggle to control my rage every time I see it. I want these armies, and I could care less that they don't win tournaments. They tell stories I want told, and I'm ecstatic that they exist- ESPECIALLY DW because back in the Witch Hunters/ Daemon Hunter days, they never got around to Xenos Hunters because of a stupid freakin edition reset. So technically that's a third army that I've been waiting for since the early 2000's that this addition has given me at last!

So forgive me if I say how dare you suggest they take away things I've wanted for decades now that I finally have them.

And we will get an Imperial Agents dex- the Apocalypse rules got a set of Imperial Agents cards as a free PDF. So far, they've laid the groundwork for Rogue Traders,Assassins and SoS; Inquistion is in next month's WD to finish off the set. I figure January might be the next PA drop, and it may be Imperial Agents. It will also coincide with the second wave of Sisters releases whenever it happens.

You probably should have read the thread, or at least my OP, so you had a vague idea of what my complaint is. I have not said anywhere that anything has been taken away.

You are comparing a apples and oranges when you claim that other factions are supported compared to Marines. Yes, Necrons had that paltry character in that boxed set that one time, oh and a forgeworld super heavy. Orks had 6 new buggies (that can't be used in competitive play because they are so awful) while losing more options in their codex. Craftworld Eldar have received a new character sculpt, a useless terrain piece and now Banshees and a singular special character. Dark Eldar have received Incubi and a singular special character. GSC did well, they got a vehicle unit, a biker unit and 5 or 6 characters IIRC. Tyranids have had 0 new model releases to my knowledge. Tau have had 0 new model releases to my knowledge. Harlies have had 0 new model releases to my knowledge. How many new model releases have Marines had this edition again? I've genuinely lost count.

I would also add that the new models for Craftworlds and Drukhari are just plastic versions of existing models. Much appreciated versions, but technically nothing new, whereas Space Marines have been getting a glut of new models that represent new units.

GW strategy since the early 90's has been to release a new edition every 4 years or so. This meant that the factions got a new codex, and in order to make it new and fresh, the factions got new models/units. This has been slowly creating model/unit bloat in the factions... also each new edition adds a new faction.

Marines are always at the forefront of this strategy, hence their line is a colossal mess of units. 4 Terminator unit entries, which is bonkers!

Marines have always sold the most, so get the most attention, which means they sell the most, which means they get the most attention... as long as people keep buying Marines they will sell, and be heavily promoted.

Where as a faction like say Dark Eldar are a little harder to promote, their motive/background/imagery is not easy to sell to kids, also their play style can be difficult as they aren't as forgiving to play or paint as Marines are.

TL/DR, Marines sell the most and they are the IP that has made GW what they are. As a result GW will not change their marketing strategy around Marines.

Not Online!!! wrote:

AngryAngel80 wrote:
Listen, someone has to get it, he wants fun, I'll give him mine if he supports the box set so I can get more Dark Eldar kits. It's a win win.

I'll even give him some candy, that makes it better.

Opportunists

What can I say ? It's the dark city in me coming out.

AngryAngel80 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

AngryAngel80 wrote:
Listen, someone has to get it, he wants fun, I'll give him mine if he supports the box set so I can get more Dark Eldar kits. It's a win win.

I'll even give him some candy, that makes it better.

Opportunists

What can I say ? It's the dark city in me coming out.

No blame from me, but the box is really not up to the standard imo.

 stonehorse wrote:
GW strategy since the early 90's has been to release a new edition every 4 years or so. This meant that the factions got a new codex, and in order to make it new and fresh, the factions got new models/units. This has been slowly creating model/unit bloat in the factions... also each new edition adds a new faction.

Marines are always at the forefront of this strategy, hence their line is a colossal mess of units. 4 Terminator unit entries, which is bonkers!

Marines have always sold the most, so get the most attention, which means they sell the most, which means they get the most attention... as long as people keep buying Marines they will sell, and be heavily promoted.

Where as a faction like say Dark Eldar are a little harder to promote, their motive/background/imagery is not easy to sell to kids, also their play style can be difficult as they aren't as forgiving to play or paint as Marines are.

TL/DR, Marines sell the most and they are the IP that has made GW what they are. As a result GW will not change their marketing strategy around Marines.

I agree with you on certain parts, but I would like to point out that Space Marines sell well because they consistently get box set featured which in turn makes them a very cheap army to collect with ton of sprues and miniatures available on the second hand market. Most other factions are lucky if they are featured in a box set once in the whole cycle. Hell, I have over 10.000 points of Dark Angels and I don't even play them that much. It's just stuff that literally trickles down to me from box sets and friends leaving the hobby.

Now, I would say that I think GW is slowly(very slowly) catching on because they've started releasing more varied box sets. This means that there is more potential for diversification of factions within the hobby as more and more plastic models are being provided more cheaply. So far I think it has been a great run with the exception of the Blood of the Phoenix due to its very high price point. Last year was exceptionally good for collectors with Forgebane, Wake the Dead, Tooth and Claw to name a few, and those provided much needed savings on several factions. The downside is that two of the boxes featured Space Marines so even more cheap Space Marine models flow into the market making them easier to collect.

Personally I am in love with what they've been doing in the AoS venue. The box sets tend to have differing factions which has provided a lot of different players access to cheap starting armies and Stormcast is not pushed as hard in those as Space Marines are.

 Eldarsif wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:
GW strategy since the early 90's has been to release a new edition every 4 years or so. This meant that the factions got a new codex, and in order to make it new and fresh, the factions got new models/units. This has been slowly creating model/unit bloat in the factions... also each new edition adds a new faction.

Marines are always at the forefront of this strategy, hence their line is a colossal mess of units. 4 Terminator unit entries, which is bonkers!

Marines have always sold the most, so get the most attention, which means they sell the most, which means they get the most attention... as long as people keep buying Marines they will sell, and be heavily promoted.

Where as a faction like say Dark Eldar are a little harder to promote, their motive/background/imagery is not easy to sell to kids, also their play style can be difficult as they aren't as forgiving to play or paint as Marines are.

TL/DR, Marines sell the most and they are the IP that has made GW what they are. As a result GW will not change their marketing strategy around Marines.

I agree with you on certain parts, but I would like to point out that Space Marines sell well because they consistently get box set featured which in turn makes them a very cheap army to collect with ton of sprues and miniatures available on the second hand market. Most other factions are lucky if they are featured in a box set once in the whole cycle. Hell, I have over 10.000 points of Dark Angels and I don't even play them that much. It's just stuff that literally trickles down to me from box sets and friends leaving the hobby.

Now, I would say that I think GW is slowly(very slowly) catching on because they've started releasing more varied box sets. This means that there is more potential for diversification of factions within the hobby as more and more plastic models are being provided more cheaply. So far I think it has been a great run with the exception of the Blood of the Phoenix due to its very high price point. Last year was exceptionally good for collectors with Forgebane, Wake the Dead, Tooth and Claw to name a few, and those provided much needed savings on several factions. The downside is that two of the boxes featured Space Marines so even more cheap Space Marine models flow into the market making them easier to collect.

Personally I am in love with what they've been doing in the AoS venue. The box sets tend to have differing factions which has provided a lot of different players access to cheap starting armies and Stormcast is not pushed as hard in those as Space Marines are.

Adding Marines to the vast majority of the starter sets, means that over the editions people end up with a sizeable force of Marines. By adding them into the starter sets, GW are showing Marines a disproportionate amount of attention and promotion. As you say it creates a trickle down effect, where the second hand market is saturated in Marines, and most 40k players will have or had a Marine force.

This isn't to say that Marines are the problem, as they aren't. It is GW's marketing strategy that is at fault here. In the old WFB, the starter sets had a good mixture of the then available factions, I think only High Elves appeared in more than one. This resulted in a good representation of the factions. There was little to any favouritism shown by GW, so players gravitated towards a faction they liked the look of.

I do wonder if the reason for Marines being so heavily promoted is to do with how easily it is to recoup the cost of the moulds. Promote them enough, they sell well, the moulds then pay for themselves, and as they still sell well, it is then more profitable to sell.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Focus on your gaming group, not the fact that GW has a daily news feed.

There’s plenty to engage you if you focus on fun rather than failing about things you can’t change. And don’t actually need to to have fun.

Its like I'm not even allowed to decide what I consider fun in this thread. Incredible.

So whining is your fun? I’m trying to offer constructive advice yet you set up a strawman to attack. What is this thread even for?

BrianDavion wrote:

 Viridian wrote:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/780687.page

^ This thread alone started to make me realize there is a bit of marine entitlement / fascism running around dakka. I didn't post I just accepted it, it was fairly moderated to keep the thread to its name. People have a right to an opinion and to say it but apparently xenos aren't allowed to have one, and if you do they are allowed to walk into it and denounce it. I have actually started frequenting other forums like The Dark City and r/eldar. Even on those forums you still get IoM trolls, apologists & reactionaries like in this thread. But it is what it is.

OT: Yes there are severe signs of fatigue completely agree. I think they should of just rebooted the original dex. It was hard to deal with new models with new abilities and balance them with rules I get it. Marine's needed attention but they did not need supplementals. No OP you aren't alone just most people don't want the flack or to trivial argue with Mon-keigh that are so entitled to oppress opinions cause they believe you aren't entitled to have one in the first place... cause your race doesn't make the most sales remember /s. They say don't click on marine stuff if you don't want to read about it, but then again why are they here when they know it's going to be negative?

dude all that thread does is ask to have a conversation about Primaris Marines without getting flooded with "I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT PRIMARIS MARINES BECAUSE I HATE THEM AND REFUSE TO LEARN ANYTHING ABOUT THEM" posts. It was started after we'd had 5 or 6 "I hate Primaris" posts started that got kinda tiresome. And ya know what? this is something marine players over all seem to have to deal with. No one else has their army subjected to threads about how much they hate it. when's the last time you saw a post that amounted to "I HATE ORKS AND YOU SUCK FOR LIKING THEM?"

I'm sorry, you must have a short memory here - have you never seen a Tau or Eldar hate thread? Ever?

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Focus on your gaming group, not the fact that GW has a daily news feed.

There’s plenty to engage you if you focus on fun rather than failing about things you can’t change. And don’t actually need to to have fun.

Its like I'm not even allowed to decide what I consider fun in this thread. Incredible.

So whining is your fun? I’m trying to offer constructive advice yet you set up a strawman to attack. What is this thread even for?

No, strangely I don't find the act of complaining fun. As to your advice, it seems pretty dismissive to me. If I was having fun in the hobby I wouldn't have made this thread and I wouldn't be considering taking a break. It might just be that my idea of fun is not getting roflstomped by any SM list whether in a casual or competitive setting. It might be that my idea of fun is to have a balanced, varied and tactical game where different builds are viable for each and every faction. It might be that my idea of fun is for every faction to be on the same playing field and to have the same ability to take relics and stratagems. It might be that my idea of fun is to get hyped for varied interesting releases that aren't focused around one faction and one faction alone.

My OP explains exactly what this thread is for, if you're confused. It's literally in the last sentence.

 stonehorse wrote:


Adding Marines to the vast majority of the starter sets, means that over the editions people end up with a sizeable force of Marines. By adding them into the starter sets, GW are showing Marines a disproportionate amount of attention and promotion. As you say it creates a trickle down effect, where the second hand market is saturated in Marines, and most 40k players will have or had a Marine force.

This isn't to say that Marines are the problem, as they aren't. It is GW's marketing strategy that is at fault here. In the old WFB, the starter sets had a good mixture of the then available factions, I think only High Elves appeared in more than one. This resulted in a good representation of the factions. There was little to any favouritism shown by GW, so players gravitated towards a faction they liked the look of.

I do wonder if the reason for Marines being so heavily promoted is to do with how easily it is to recoup the cost of the moulds. Promote them enough, they sell well, the moulds then pay for themselves, and as they still sell well, it is then more profitable to sell.

Exactly. I see this happening in AoS. I see much more diversity in AoS(there are of course meta hoppers that will skew a little) as AoS tends to not favor Stormcast too much. This year we had two boxes and none of them had Stormcast and they sold incredibly well(I still regret not buying a second Carrion Empire box).

But isn't AoS just summoning spam and skew lists like skaven?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Focus on your gaming group, not the fact that GW has a daily news feed.

There’s plenty to engage you if you focus on fun rather than failing about things you can’t change. And don’t actually need to to have fun.

I wonder how many playgroups around the world are fun for GK players. As whole doesn't matter if they are hardcore tournament set or something wierd like narrative or open. In fact it would be interesting to know how many people play w40k as a whole, and how many people main which faction to be honest. I wonder how many people play just GK nowadays. Does GW or someone else does surveys about number of players ? Were stuff like that done in the past, or is it only the tournament stuff that people have data on?

Just look t all the plastic kits churned out for warcry/necromunda/bloodbowl..

Why? Are more people going to buy warcry minis than <insert non-IOM faction name> ? I
Fact is I don't have access to GW sales.. So maybe I am totaly wrong on this.. but Man I would love to take a peak so I can understand what their decision-making process is.

Its a resource management issue not a marine issue (with marines being the prime beneficiaries of this resource management obviously)

And do we even need to mention the rules feth up.. evey... time...?

Its incompetence coupled with detachment from customer base reality thats getting tiresome for me.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Focus on your gaming group, not the fact that GW has a daily news feed.

There’s plenty to engage you if you focus on fun rather than failing about things you can’t change. And don’t actually need to to have fun.

Its like I'm not even allowed to decide what I consider fun in this thread. Incredible.

So whining is your fun? I’m trying to offer constructive advice yet you set up a strawman to attack. What is this thread even for?

No, strangely I don't find the act of complaining fun. As to your advice, it seems pretty dismissive to me. If I was having fun in the hobby I wouldn't have made this thread and I wouldn't be considering taking a break. It might just be that my idea of fun is not getting roflstomped by any SM list whether in a casual or competitive setting. It might be that my idea of fun is to have a balanced, varied and tactical game where different builds are viable for each and every faction. It might be that my idea of fun is for every faction to be on the same playing field and to have the same ability to take relics and stratagems. It might be that my idea of fun is to get hyped for varied interesting releases that aren't focused around one faction and one faction alone.

My OP explains exactly what this thread is for, if you're confused. It's literally in the last sentence.

Thanks for the cute insult to my intelligence, nice one. We’ve already established that there’s no way to get GW to change their approach to Marines. All that’s left then is “do others feel the same” which I’ll leave you to.

 stonehorse wrote:
Where as a faction like say Dark Eldar are a little harder to promote, their motive/background/imagery is not easy to sell to kids, also their play style can be difficult as they aren't as forgiving to play or paint as Marines are.

TL/DR, Marines sell the most and they are the IP that has made GW what they are. As a result GW will not change their marketing strategy around Marines.

With the popularity of franchises like Call of Duty, you could easily sell the Imperial Guard to kids. Anime is more popular in the West than it's ever been, and Tau have a recognizable style that feeds into that. Orks are uniquely 40K, and there was a time when they were the second-most-played faction. Tyranids are familiar to anyone who's seen Starship Troopers or played Starcraft, and the swarm of evil bugs is a classic sci-fi antagonist archetype.

I don't buy that Space Marines are the only army that they could successfully promote. Age of Sigmar seems to be doing just fine, and that setting isn't nearly as skewed towards Stormcast as 40K is towards Marines. Stormcast may feature heavily in the marketing and imagery, but they actually regularly release boxed sets that don't involve Stormcast at all.

I'd just like to point out that GW is one of the profitable companies in the UK (last year they had enjoyed record profits https://www.independent.ie/world-news/record-sales-and-profit-at-games-workshop-despite-slower-growth-37713079.html )
I doubt their long term strategy is much in question at the top...

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

PenitentJake wrote:
Okay. Haven't read the whole thread, but tried to read most. Negativity gets to me.

Spoiler:

I've been waiting since 95 for GSC and since 2003 for sisters. I've already got one [and I LOVE it!]. The other drops in November. And that is freakin fantastic. Not sure I could be happier.
I've wanted to play both Eldar and Dark Eldar forever, but never bought anything; I've always hated resin, but Banshees and Incubi were actually two of my favourite units. And as for those falcons and vypers everyone has already? I don't. And I want them. And now I'm going to get them.

You can't say Xenos aren't supported after the PA drops. You can complain about the cost of the box, or even its contents. But four new units, a box set and a campaign book is NOT unsupported.

Did they talk about marines in Orktober? Sure. But you know what didn't happen? They didn't get a marines vs marines stand alone game with loads of new vehicle kits. but I seem to recall that happening for Orks, so again, NOT unsupported.

I too was POed about losses to Dark Eldar, but as much as I love Baron Sathonyx, Lady Malys, Duke Sliscus and Keradruahk, none of them ever had models, so it's not actually as much of a loss as it is made out to be. Yes, it probably means they are less likely to be realized, but I still have hope. The revival of the GSC after 22 years really does mean this edition is different and anything really is possible.

Heck, you've got a choice now between 3 different Rogue Traders for cryin out loud!

I also don't think it's at all fair to talk about the success or failure of PA after one book out of what will probably end up being a ten book set.

You know, I've lived through editions that felt far more marine dominant than this one. And under previous editions, there was always this threat of the dreaded reset button that would mean living through all those marine releases AGAIN, which was utterly terrifying. It's why I get filled with dread every time I see a thread wishing for a 9th ed. Because THAT is what leads to the marine spam more than anything else. I think GW has learned that the only way we're ever gonna get to Tau auxilia is if an edition lasts for a decade or so, and really? Hopefully the rest of my lifetime.

I bought enough product from this edition, and intend to continue doing so for as long as I am able, that I can single handedly supply my entire small group of friends with enough rules and models to keep us playing for as long as we have the will.

As for the GK/DW should not be their own armies arguments, I have to struggle to control my rage every time I see it. I want these armies, and I could care less that they don't win tournaments. They tell stories I want told, and I'm ecstatic that they exist- ESPECIALLY DW because back in the Witch Hunters/ Daemon Hunter days, they never got around to Xenos Hunters because of a stupid freakin edition reset. So technically that's a third army that I've been waiting for since the early 2000's that this addition has given me at last!

So forgive me if I say how dare you suggest they take away things I've wanted for decades now that I finally have them.

And we will get an Imperial Agents dex- the Apocalypse rules got a set of Imperial Agents cards as a free PDF. So far, they've laid the groundwork for Rogue Traders,Assassins and SoS; Inquistion is in next month's WD to finish off the set. I figure January might be the next PA drop, and it may be Imperial Agents. It will also coincide with the second wave of Sisters releases whenever it happens.

You probably should have read the thread, or at least my OP, so you had a vague idea of what my complaint is. I have not said anywhere that anything has been taken away.

You are comparing a apples and oranges when you claim that other factions are supported compared to Marines. Yes, Necrons had that paltry character in that boxed set that one time, oh and a forgeworld super heavy. Orks had 6 new buggies (that can't be used in competitive play because they are so awful) while losing more options in their codex. Craftworld Eldar have received a new character sculpt, a useless terrain piece and now Banshees and a singular special character. Dark Eldar have received Incubi and a singular special character. GSC did well, they got a vehicle unit, a biker unit and 5 or 6 characters IIRC. Tyranids have had 0 new model releases to my knowledge. Tau have had 0 new model releases to my knowledge. Harlies have had 0 new model releases to my knowledge. How many new model releases have Marines had this edition again? I've genuinely lost count.

It's not just the infinite model releases Marines enjoy either. They are the only faction, the only faction to have an actual v2 codex. They are, in addition, the only faction to have codex supplements for their sub-factions.

How is this in any way fair, equal or balanced? It's not even close. What I have been saying is that this disparity is such that it has actually driven me away from the hobby as a whole. I am so sick of the Marine releases and focus by GW that I am losing interest in the hobby generally. I can't be bothered to play, I can't be bothered to paint, I can't even be bothered to build. This has nothing to do with "Marine articles" or "Marine posts on a forum" like some of you incredibly claim. It's to do with the focus of GW and the fact that 95% of it is aimed at Marines. For me, if GW don't change their stance on this I will stop hobbying all together. I'm sure others will follow suit. This will hurt GWs bottom line and, more importantly, the hobby as a whole.

I read all of the first 2 pages and skimmed the 3rd. I got your OP loud and clear, but I was responding to other comments as well as your OP. I really need to learn to multiquote so I can disambiguate- it would have made my post more clear.

So I think you misread my point a bit. I agree that Marines get more content, and that they currently have more content- I'm sorry if I soundened like I was invalidating your point of view- I'm actually not. What I am saying is that this edition has been less marine spam than other editions, and the fact that it seems like there is no reset button in sight likely means that this will become even more apparent as the edition moves on. Heck, PA is giving updates to 24 factions! And it just seems odd to me that no one else sees this.

As for the cost of the PA box, and its contents, like I said, those too are valid complaints. The box certainly has less value for existing players due to the likelihood that they already have many of the models, and it would certainly have more value to new players if it included troops. It's great for Ynarri players, because all of the units work in a Ynarri. It's also great for people like me who want to start building both a DE and a CWE army. For everyone else, yeah, it definitely could have been better.

But in terms of dollars, (Canadian dollars anyway) just the existing models come to $205 (65 Falcon, 40 Vyper, 40 Venom, 30 Scourges, 30 Hellions); that means that you get 2 new HQ sculpts and 2 new Elites sculpts plus the campaign book and all the data sheets for $75, and that is a deal. Yes, it's true you have to want and have a place for all the other stuff in order for it to be a deal- I get that. But that's not the same thing as "it is an over priced box." I figure each of the new kits will fetch a minimum of $40 when they come out as separates, which would work out to an $85 discount (assuming you don't put a cash value on the data cards and campaign book- if you do, the savings is higher).

Finally, someone pointed out that a few of the things I mentioned as coming out in 8th actually came out in 7th; I knew that was true of GSC, but it was late enough in 7th, and the 8th dex was such an expansion on the 7th that I just let it ride- probably not cool, given how hard I police semantics- sorry about that. As for the DW, I was totally unaware they had a dex in 7th. I'm glad that GW updated it for 8th.

And again, I'm not saying anyone's opinion is not valid; I know where you're all coming from, and I the game and the company could definitely use some more improvement. I'm just trying to diminish negative feelings because I'm a crazy old hippie, and I think most people would prefer to be happy than sad. If I could help anyone feel just a little bit better about their hobby, their day or the state of the world in general, it's worth all the paragraphs I have to write and all the bitterness I have to read through to get here.

Peace everyone. Genuine.