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 fraser1191 wrote:


More or less in response to this though GW should go back to marines VS Xenos as opposed to marines VS spikey marines. When I think 40k I think of that dawn of war cutscene with the orks, or the blood ravens VS the banshees

Honestly, I think of 40k as Imperium vs. Chaos. With the exception of the Eldar, who are also part of the greater Chaos-based story line, the other xenos factions aren't really super interesting or relevant and kind of feel like they're "just there".


I wish there was more to Chaos than spiky marines, and more to the liberation ideology. I really hate GSC, so I also think that the workers' revolt should have been a Chaos Cults thing. Beyond the fact that it works better from a thematic standpoint when the rebels and terrorists actually believe in and are fighting for their stated cause [rather than being mind controlled by literal rape]. In my opinion, [in addition to retconning the GSC control assumption mechanism to have less unfortunate implications and messages] is that the GSC could have focused on a "the government is actually controlled by lizard aliens who replaced the President" conspiracy level, and disgruntled miners, farmer, and factory workers with technical trucks and improvised explosives should have gone to Chaos.

I like the Chaos factions as an idea, I don't like them in implementation. I'm not interested in playing Chaos Space Marines, because the part of Chaos I'm most interested in people who noble goals falling to dark means to face the overwhelming might of their oppressors as opposed to the has-beens of 10000 years still trying to settle a grudge, and the Chaos Daemons are cool but not sufficiently aesthetically appealing. I would like it if they had guns and were sci fi daemons as opposed to just fantasy daemons tacked onto a otherwise pretty sci-fi setting. Sure, 40k has a lot of fantasy elements, but they're all adapted to be science fiction-y ports of them, while the daemons don't have that.



As for "Marine Fatique", it would have been nice if they dropped it all together rather than drawing it out, because at this point, they previewed the units and all the rules are in hand and we've known about them for a while, but the models are just coming and it feels more late than new and eciting. Also, the fact that each new SM supplement is more broken than the last and the initial debut was already a level of tacking on special rules for more power has made it just exhausting more than exciting.

The worst part, the list you want or described, literally existed.
For 6 month then 8th came and broke anything.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:


More or less in response to this though GW should go back to marines VS Xenos as opposed to marines VS spikey marines. When I think 40k I think of that dawn of war cutscene with the orks, or the blood ravens VS the banshees

Honestly, I think of 40k as Imperium vs. Chaos. With the exception of the Eldar, who are also part of the greater Chaos-based story line, the other xenos factions aren't really super interesting or relevant and kind of feel like they're "just there".


I wish there was more to Chaos than spiky marines, and more to the liberation ideology. I really hate GSC, so I also think that the workers' revolt should have been a Chaos Cults thing. Beyond the fact that it works better from a thematic standpoint when the rebels and terrorists actually believe in and are fighting for their stated cause [rather than being mind controlled by literal rape]. In my opinion, [in addition to retconning the GSC control assumption mechanism to have less unfortunate implications and messages] is that the GSC could have focused on a "the government is actually controlled by lizard aliens who replaced the President" conspiracy level, and disgruntled miners, farmer, and factory workers with technical trucks and improvised explosives should have gone to Chaos.

I like the Chaos factions as an idea, I don't like them in implementation. I'm not interested in playing Chaos Space Marines, because the part of Chaos I'm most interested in people who noble goals falling to dark means to face the overwhelming might of their oppressors as opposed to the has-beens of 10000 years still trying to settle a grudge, and the Chaos Daemons are cool but not sufficiently aesthetically appealing. I would like it if they had guns and were sci fi daemons as opposed to just fantasy daemons tacked onto a otherwise pretty sci-fi setting. Sure, 40k has a lot of fantasy elements, but they're all adapted to be science fiction-y ports of them, while the daemons don't have that.



As for "Marine Fatique", it would have been nice if they dropped it all together rather than drawing it out, because at this point, they previewed the units and all the rules are in hand and we've known about them for a while, but the models are just coming and it feels more late than new and eciting. Also, the fact that each new SM supplement is more broken than the last and the initial debut was already a level of tacking on special rules for more power has made it just exhausting more than exciting.

hopefully the rumored lost and damned codex will scratch that itch for you.

drbored wrote:
If you're getting a lot of this stuff thrown in your face, then maybe it's time to stop visiting the warhammer community website for a while. Take it off your routine. Unfollow the facebook pages. Unplug from the forums for a month. Your attitude towards the hobby will improve, I guarantee it. It's really easy to 'fishbowl', to think that there's nothing else outside of the hobby if you keep focusing on all the negatives.

I don't know how many times I can say "it's not entirely on social media" before you'll actually understand that 'it's not entirely on social media'. Do you have a response to any of this (that was in the quotation of mine you were responding to, by the way);

through the local gaming stores all suddenly having Marine armies "out of retirement" and having promotions on all these new Marine models and codexes or of course just the players that are excited about the *yet another round of* Marine releases wanting to talk about them (in real life)?

Also, the lack of discipline with your hobby sounds like a -you- problem. If you can't keep motivation with the army that you're building/painting, then you must not like it enough to build and paint it for its own sake. There's plenty of hobbyists that don't have this problem at all. People that work on their Necron or Tau armies, getting them steadily built and painted, for their own sake and because they like the force, not because they got a shiny new toy or because they're the most updated. Instead of trying to pick apart my arguments and find the negative to support your own status, it's time to try a different avenue and find the fun in the hobby again.

Ah the ad hominems. Of course.

Ask your Tau, Necron and Tyranid friends if they're as pumped about the hobby as they were 12 or 18 months ago. See what they say. I'd be surprised if they are. It's not about liking a force because "they got a shiny new toy" it's about GW keeping my interest in the hobby through their actions. And trust me, it's not my problem if I stop spending on the hobby, I won't suffer for it.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Honestly, I think of 40k as Imperium vs. Chaos. With the exception of the Eldar, who are also part of the greater Chaos-based story line, the other xenos factions aren't really super interesting or relevant and kind of feel like they're "just there".

Not featuring in any significant narrative can tend to make a faction feel like they're 'just there', yes. That's not a matter of the faction so much as how the non-Chaos antagonists have been shoved into a corner.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:


More or less in response to this though GW should go back to marines VS Xenos as opposed to marines VS spikey marines. When I think 40k I think of that dawn of war cutscene with the orks, or the blood ravens VS the banshees

Honestly, I think of 40k as Imperium vs. Chaos. With the exception of the Eldar, who are also part of the greater Chaos-based story line, the other xenos factions aren't really super interesting or relevant and kind of feel like they're "just there".


I wish there was more to Chaos than spiky marines, and more to the liberation ideology. I really hate GSC, so I also think that the workers' revolt should have been a Chaos Cults thing. Beyond the fact that it works better from a thematic standpoint when the rebels and terrorists actually believe in and are fighting for their stated cause [rather than being mind controlled by literal rape]. In my opinion, [in addition to retconning the GSC control assumption mechanism to have less unfortunate implications and messages] is that the GSC could have focused on a "the government is actually controlled by lizard aliens who replaced the President" conspiracy level, and disgruntled miners, farmer, and factory workers with technical trucks and improvised explosives should have gone to Chaos.

I like the Chaos factions as an idea, I don't like them in implementation. I'm not interested in playing Chaos Space Marines, because the part of Chaos I'm most interested in people who noble goals falling to dark means to face the overwhelming might of their oppressors as opposed to the has-beens of 10000 years still trying to settle a grudge, and the Chaos Daemons are cool but not sufficiently aesthetically appealing. I would like it if they had guns and were sci fi daemons as opposed to just fantasy daemons tacked onto a otherwise pretty sci-fi setting. Sure, 40k has a lot of fantasy elements, but they're all adapted to be science fiction-y ports of them, while the daemons don't have that.



As for "Marine Fatique", it would have been nice if they dropped it all together rather than drawing it out, because at this point, they previewed the units and all the rules are in hand and we've known about them for a while, but the models are just coming and it feels more late than new and eciting. Also, the fact that each new SM supplement is more broken than the last and the initial debut was already a level of tacking on special rules for more power has made it just exhausting more than exciting.

hopefully the rumored lost and damned codex will scratch that itch for you.

They better fix what they have broken.

I don't think GW is much interesting stuff they broke, specially if they knew they are breaking it. They could be interested in fixing stuff they want to sell more, or base whole new models lines on. But I don't see someone at GW pondering day and night for weeks how to fix, lets say space marine AA tanks

 catbarf wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Honestly, I think of 40k as Imperium vs. Chaos. With the exception of the Eldar, who are also part of the greater Chaos-based story line, the other xenos factions aren't really super interesting or relevant and kind of feel like they're "just there".

Not featuring in any significant narrative can tend to make a faction feel like they're 'just there', yes. That's not a matter of the faction so much as how the non-Chaos antagonists have been shoved into a corner.

Though even when they were front and center in Leviathan, Mont'ka, and Sanctus Reach they didn't feel as "tied in" as the greater narrative against Chaos does, which spans everything goes from thing to thing, and touches everything.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 catbarf wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Honestly, I think of 40k as Imperium vs. Chaos. With the exception of the Eldar, who are also part of the greater Chaos-based story line, the other xenos factions aren't really super interesting or relevant and kind of feel like they're "just there".

Not featuring in any significant narrative can tend to make a faction feel like they're 'just there', yes. That's not a matter of the faction so much as how the non-Chaos antagonists have been shoved into a corner.

Though even when they were front and center in Leviathan, Mont'ka, and Sanctus Reach they didn't feel as "tied in" as the greater narrative against Chaos does, which spans everything goes from thing to thing, and touches everything.

The reason they probably don't feel as "tied in" is because for almost every campaign in which they are "front and center" they are actually only a precursor threat to an OMGCHAOZWOZDABADDIESALLALONGG!!11one drop that GW thinks is oh so clever while literally doing the same thing every time.

I don't know how long you've been playing, but when I started Chaos, Orks, Eldar, Nids and Necrons were all considered a pretty equal and significant threat to the IOM. The focus/obsession with SM vs CSM is a relatively recent thing.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 catbarf wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Honestly, I think of 40k as Imperium vs. Chaos. With the exception of the Eldar, who are also part of the greater Chaos-based story line, the other xenos factions aren't really super interesting or relevant and kind of feel like they're "just there".

Not featuring in any significant narrative can tend to make a faction feel like they're 'just there', yes. That's not a matter of the faction so much as how the non-Chaos antagonists have been shoved into a corner.

Though even when they were front and center in Leviathan, Mont'ka, and Sanctus Reach they didn't feel as "tied in" as the greater narrative against Chaos does, which spans everything goes from thing to thing, and touches everything.

The reason they probably don't feel as "tied in" is because for almost every campaign in which they are "front and center" they are actually only a precursor threat to an OMGCHAOZWOZDABADDIESALLALONGG!!11one drop that GW thinks is oh so clever while literally doing the same thing every time.

I don't know how long you've been playing, but when I started Chaos, Orks, Eldar, Nids and Necrons were all considered a pretty equal and significant threat to the IOM. The focus/obsession with SM vs CSM is a relatively recent thing.

I think, for now at least, they're trying to narrativly put the focus back on Chaos as Chaos was supposed to be a major threat but thanks to mishandling (such as the whole cadia situation) before the end of 7th, people joked about Chaos not really doing anything, you had internet memes like Abaddon the (h)armless etc.
I'm hoping this will be a temporary thing, because I agree some xenos threats have fallen by the wayside, it's been ages since Necrons have really been depicted as a threat. and yeah Orks seem to be falling into the trap of "LOL THEY WHERE A DISTRINCTION! CHAOS IS THE REAL THREAT" thing that has been done to death in relic video games. I'd LOOOVE to see necrons and orks register as big time threats.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Spoiler:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 catbarf wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Honestly, I think of 40k as Imperium vs. Chaos. With the exception of the Eldar, who are also part of the greater Chaos-based story line, the other xenos factions aren't really super interesting or relevant and kind of feel like they're "just there".

Not featuring in any significant narrative can tend to make a faction feel like they're 'just there', yes. That's not a matter of the faction so much as how the non-Chaos antagonists have been shoved into a corner.

Though even when they were front and center in Leviathan, Mont'ka, and Sanctus Reach they didn't feel as "tied in" as the greater narrative against Chaos does, which spans everything goes from thing to thing, and touches everything.

The reason they probably don't feel as "tied in" is because for almost every campaign in which they are "front and center" they are actually only a precursor threat to an OMGCHAOZWOZDABADDIESALLALONGG!!11one drop that GW thinks is oh so clever while literally doing the same thing every time.

I don't know how long you've been playing, but when I started Chaos, Orks, Eldar, Nids and Necrons were all considered a pretty equal and significant threat to the IOM. The focus/obsession with SM vs CSM is a relatively recent thing.

So true. The Imperium evacuating and razing hundreds of systems to try and slow down Hive Fleet Leviathan. The Nightbringer being the cause of the fear of death for all races, and Pariahs being a twisted plan for the human genome.

@An Actual Englishman

I think it says a lot about where you are at when posters are trying to help and you call their posts out with argumentative fallacies.

For something to be a strawman or an ad hominem, I believe one has to be debating or arguing. What I wrote and what I have read in this thread aren't arguments, debates or contentions. They are merely suggestions offered trying to relieve your fatigue. Maybe they are wrong or unwarranted. If so feel free to ignore them. But it you want to circle the wagons and see them as attacks that need to labeled with argumentative fallacies to bulwark your mental fortifications, more power to you. Just trying to help where I think I have the ability to do so and try to direct you away from where I think none of us have the power to make change. That's how I read drbored's posts as well.

I for one with surely stop offering suggestions to you I think may help as they are seen as attacks more than aid. My final piece of advice to you is to try to not see every post as an attack that needs to be parried. Not every communication interaction is a debate. If you think it is, maybe some self reflection is in order.

A week after the first PA release and the only news we've heard about is marine releases.

Pretty typical.

 Eonfuzz wrote:
A week after the first PA release and the only news we've heard about is marine releases.

Pretty typical.

What the hell are you on about? Phoenix Arising was only released on Saturday, and Psychic Awakening updates happen on a Monday. Sure, a lot of last week was Marine-centric, but that was because they were going up on pre-order on Saturday.

Don't blame GW because you can't remember the schedule they said they'd do PA updates on.

 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
@An Actual Englishman

I think it says a lot about where you are at when posters are trying to help and you call their posts out with argumentative fallacies.

Spoiler:

For something to be a strawman or an ad hominem, I believe one has to be debating or arguing. What I wrote and what I have read in this thread aren't arguments, debates or contentions. They are merely suggestions offered trying to relieve your fatigue. Maybe they are wrong or unwarranted. If so feel free to ignore them. But it you want to circle the wagons and see them as attacks that need to labeled with argumentative fallacies to bulwark your mental fortifications, more power to you. Just trying to help where I think I have the ability to do so and try to direct you away from where I think none of us have the power to make change. That's how I read drbored's posts as well.

I for one with surely stop offering suggestions to you I think may help as they are seen as attacks more than aid. My final piece of advice to you is to try to not see every post as an attack that needs to be parried.

Not every communication interaction is a debate. If you think it is, maybe some self reflection is in order.

The thing is your so called advise is clearly a thinly veiled attempt to legitimise what you believe is fine (GWs obsession with Marines) and criticise me for suggesting otherwise, while claiming that 'it's a -you- problem' or 'stop looking at all those websites lolol' or 'you should love a faction because you love it, not because it gets new stuff, fake fan'.

You couldn't even resist in this post above where you have allegedly signed out of the thread - apparently I am throwing argumentative fallacies at posters just 'trying to help' and I need to 'self reflect' because I see everything as a debate.

I don't think you're attacking me in all cases. I simply think your advise is not only useless (because it stems from a place of ignorance) but it is also pointless. I have tried your suggestions, they haven't worked and have proven futile. You assume my first attempt at dealing with an issue in the hobby is to make a post on here about it, which is telling in and of itself.

Offloading like this is the last thing I can try, really. It helps, but not enough. The most recent PA announcement is the final nail in the coffin as as far as my hobby excitement is concerned. Time for a break, I think. You can disagree with that all you like, I really don't care, but it doesn't look like I'm alone in my boredom of GWs focus on all things power armour.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Eonfuzz wrote:
A week after the first PA release and the only news we've heard about is marine releases.

Pretty typical.

What the hell are you on about? Phoenix Arising was only released on Saturday, and Psychic Awakening updates happen on a Monday. Sure, a lot of last week was Marine-centric, but that was because they were going up on pre-order on Saturday.

Don't blame GW because you can't remember the schedule they said they'd do PA updates on.

The next week is going to be Marine centric too, and the 3 weeks after that as the second PA volume has 6 Marine factions within.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Eonfuzz wrote:
A week after the first PA release and the only news we've heard about is marine releases.

Pretty typical.

What the hell are you on about? Phoenix Arising was only released on Saturday, and Psychic Awakening updates happen on a Monday. Sure, a lot of last week was Marine-centric, but that was because they were going up on pre-order on Saturday.

Don't blame GW because you can't remember the schedule they said they'd do PA updates on.

The next week is going to be Marine centric too, and the 3 weeks after that as the second PA volume has 6 Marine factions within.

I'm assuming nothing about PA until I see updates on WHC about it - tbh, I wouldn't be that surprised if this week's update is still talking about Phoenix Rising or Blood of the Phoenix, given they were only released at the weekend.

Yeah they already released a video highlighting black templar in the next PA release.

As an imperial lover I'd really like to be able to say " guys, it's not that bad. " really though. Just look at the actual model releases since 8th dropped. The vast lions share is marines. Even including other imperial forces, let alone xeno.

I get marines are cool, hell I have like 4 different chapters of marines, trust me I know they are cool. It's just getting a bit nuts for everyone else though as far as model releases go and pushing a narrative that isn't just marines with the very rare blip on the radar which is this eldar drop which was intermixed with more marines and marines following directly after.

I find it hard to care at this point but then I'm still nursing my sweet Sly Marbo model for my guard. I've had all this time to appreciate his glory.

Well, compare the shiny new Marine releases with the release of Phönix rising.
The latter has not received any love by GW.
Or would GW release a box with Landspeeders and Predators atm?

 Dysartes wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Eonfuzz wrote:
A week after the first PA release and the only news we've heard about is marine releases.

Pretty typical.

What the hell are you on about? Phoenix Arising was only released on Saturday, and Psychic Awakening updates happen on a Monday. Sure, a lot of last week was Marine-centric, but that was because they were going up on pre-order on Saturday.

Don't blame GW because you can't remember the schedule they said they'd do PA updates on.

The next week is going to be Marine centric too, and the 3 weeks after that as the second PA volume has 6 Marine factions within.

I'm assuming nothing about PA until I see updates on WHC about it - tbh, I wouldn't be that surprised if this week's update is still talking about Phoenix Rising or Blood of the Phoenix, given they were only released at the weekend.

Check WHC, they've posted a video stating what I've written above.

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 catbarf wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Honestly, I think of 40k as Imperium vs. Chaos. With the exception of the Eldar, who are also part of the greater Chaos-based story line, the other xenos factions aren't really super interesting or relevant and kind of feel like they're "just there".

Not featuring in any significant narrative can tend to make a faction feel like they're 'just there', yes. That's not a matter of the faction so much as how the non-Chaos antagonists have been shoved into a corner.

Though even when they were front and center in Leviathan, Mont'ka, and Sanctus Reach they didn't feel as "tied in" as the greater narrative against Chaos does, which spans everything goes from thing to thing, and touches everything.

The reason they probably don't feel as "tied in" is because for almost every campaign in which they are "front and center" they are actually only a precursor threat to an OMGCHAOZWOZDABADDIESALLALONGG!!11one drop that GW thinks is oh so clever while literally doing the same thing every time.

I don't know how long you've been playing, but when I started Chaos, Orks, Eldar, Nids and Necrons were all considered a pretty equal and significant threat to the IOM. The focus/obsession with SM vs CSM is a relatively recent thing.

I think, for now at least, they're trying to narrativly put the focus back on Chaos as Chaos was supposed to be a major threat but thanks to mishandling (such as the whole cadia situation) before the end of 7th, people joked about Chaos not really doing anything, you had internet memes like Abaddon the (h)armless etc.
I'm hoping this will be a temporary thing, because I agree some xenos threats have fallen by the wayside, it's been ages since Necrons have really been depicted as a threat. and yeah Orks seem to be falling into the trap of "LOL THEY WHERE A DISTRINCTION! CHAOS IS THE REAL THREAT" thing that has been done to death in relic video games. I'd LOOOVE to see necrons and orks register as big time threats.

I think even when it is a focus on chaos, it’s still mostly all center on the marine factions anyway. Abaddon will probably stay a bit of joke with the direction it’s all going. Space marines are fast becoming a lame joke in the setting that made them so evocative to me. A basic space marine is so far on the space marine level now. It’s kinda hard not to take them as a bit of a joke as a whole for me.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, compare the shiny new Marine releases with the release of Phönix rising.
The latter has not received any love by GW.
Or would GW release a box with Landspeeders and Predators atm?

No but honestly I'd have been more prone to buy wake the dead if it had a land speeder or predator in it over the reivers it came with

 An Actual Englishman wrote:


The reason they probably don't feel as "tied in" is because for almost every campaign in which they are "front and center" they are actually only a precursor threat to an OMGCHAOZWOZDABADDIESALLALONGG!!11one drop that GW thinks is oh so clever while literally doing the same thing every time.

I don't know how long you've been playing, but when I started Chaos, Orks, Eldar, Nids and Necrons were all considered a pretty equal and significant threat to the IOM. The focus/obsession with SM vs CSM is a relatively recent thing.

I've been playing since 5e.

Anyway, I don't think Chaos shows up during Warzone Damocles or Shield of Baal.

As for the significance of the narrative, it's not like the various non-Eldar xenos haven't featured as the primary antagonist of major splats, it's a circular situation of they're not in a major event because the event in question is about them. The Eldar feel significant even when they're not front and center most of the time because they're part of the greater Chaos narrative and they have significant contributions, but the Damocles campaign, despite being 4 books long, feel less significant because it's about the Tau. It's circular.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:


The reason they probably don't feel as "tied in" is because for almost every campaign in which they are "front and center" they are actually only a precursor threat to an OMGCHAOZWOZDABADDIESALLALONGG!!11one drop that GW thinks is oh so clever while literally doing the same thing every time.

I don't know how long you've been playing, but when I started Chaos, Orks, Eldar, Nids and Necrons were all considered a pretty equal and significant threat to the IOM. The focus/obsession with SM vs CSM is a relatively recent thing.

I've been playing since 5e.

Anyway, I don't think Chaos shows up during Warzone Damocles or Shield of Baal.

They don't. however Englishman is an Ork fan and I will admit that there is a tendancy to use Ork invasions and pre-cursors to Chaos. you saw it with dawn of war 1, Warhammer 4ok Space Marine, you saw Deamons show up in the red Waagh IIRC. Viglius of course had a speed waagh as a precursor to the black legion showing up, khornite forces have shown up on Armageddon. Englishman has a point that it seems that Orks at least are treated as sort of an "appertizer" for IoM in their conflicts with chaos. and it IS getting a bit dull. I'd certainly enjoy seeing a big mega Waagh event. I think if I was tasked with writing it I'd have a giant waagh rush into the Damocles gulf area. you'd have Orks fighting Tau, Imperium (not together. just the Orks wouldn't care about the border so they'd hit both factions) and maybe even at least one Orks vs 'Nids event.

BrianDavion wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, compare the shiny new Marine releases with the release of Phönix rising.
The latter has not received any love by GW.
Or would GW release a box with Landspeeders and Predators atm?

No but honestly I'd have been more prone to buy wake the dead if it had a land speeder or predator in it over the reivers it came with

But they've improved the Reivers by the new assault rule (+1A for charging or being charged).

BrianDavion wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:


The reason they probably don't feel as "tied in" is because for almost every campaign in which they are "front and center" they are actually only a precursor threat to an OMGCHAOZWOZDABADDIESALLALONGG!!11one drop that GW thinks is oh so clever while literally doing the same thing every time.

I don't know how long you've been playing, but when I started Chaos, Orks, Eldar, Nids and Necrons were all considered a pretty equal and significant threat to the IOM. The focus/obsession with SM vs CSM is a relatively recent thing.

I've been playing since 5e.

Anyway, I don't think Chaos shows up during Warzone Damocles or Shield of Baal.

They don't. however Englishman is an Ork fan and I will admit that there is a tendancy to use Ork invasions and pre-cursors to Chaos. you saw it with dawn of war 1, Warhammer 4ok Space Marine, you saw Deamons show up in the red Waagh IIRC. Viglius of course had a speed waagh as a precursor to the black legion showing up, khornite forces have shown up on Armageddon. Englishman has a point that it seems that Orks at least are treated as sort of an "appertizer" for IoM in their conflicts with chaos. and it IS getting a bit dull. I'd certainly enjoy seeing a big mega Waagh event. I think if I was tasked with writing it I'd have a giant waagh rush into the Damocles gulf area. you'd have Orks fighting Tau, Imperium (not together. just the Orks wouldn't care about the border so they'd hit both factions) and maybe even at least one Orks vs 'Nids event.

Of the Xenos to be a serious threat, I'd rather Tyranids than Orks. Theoretically, a Tau-Imperium-'Nids arrangement would work for a arc. Out of all the xenos, the Tyranids have the biggest potential to be played up IMO, particularly since the "bugs" are a classic part of sci-fi.

I'm happy for Black Templars, they're coolest chapter and were always neglected by GW.

 wuestenfux wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, compare the shiny new Marine releases with the release of Phönix rising.
The latter has not received any love by GW.
Or would GW release a box with Landspeeders and Predators atm?

No but honestly I'd have been more prone to buy wake the dead if it had a land speeder or predator in it over the reivers it came with

But they've improved the Reivers by the new assault rule (+1A for charging or being charged).

wake the dead was before that boxed set so even if it had improved it it would have been irrelevant. I mean if 6 months from now codex eldar 2.0 makes the falcon tank an OP god machine you want to spam, that's not going to reduce the eldar who feel the box right now isn't a great buy.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:


The reason they probably don't feel as "tied in" is because for almost every campaign in which they are "front and center" they are actually only a precursor threat to an OMGCHAOZWOZDABADDIESALLALONGG!!11one drop that GW thinks is oh so clever while literally doing the same thing every time.

I don't know how long you've been playing, but when I started Chaos, Orks, Eldar, Nids and Necrons were all considered a pretty equal and significant threat to the IOM. The focus/obsession with SM vs CSM is a relatively recent thing.

I've been playing since 5e.

Anyway, I don't think Chaos shows up during Warzone Damocles or Shield of Baal.

They don't. however Englishman is an Ork fan and I will admit that there is a tendancy to use Ork invasions and pre-cursors to Chaos. you saw it with dawn of war 1, Warhammer 4ok Space Marine, you saw Deamons show up in the red Waagh IIRC. Viglius of course had a speed waagh as a precursor to the black legion showing up, khornite forces have shown up on Armageddon. Englishman has a point that it seems that Orks at least are treated as sort of an "appertizer" for IoM in their conflicts with chaos. and it IS getting a bit dull. I'd certainly enjoy seeing a big mega Waagh event. I think if I was tasked with writing it I'd have a giant waagh rush into the Damocles gulf area. you'd have Orks fighting Tau, Imperium (not together. just the Orks wouldn't care about the border so they'd hit both factions) and maybe even at least one Orks vs 'Nids event.

Of the Xenos to be a serious threat, I'd rather Tyranids than Orks. Theoretically, a Tau-Imperium-'Nids arrangement would work for a arc. Out of all the xenos, the Tyranids have the biggest potential to be played up IMO, particularly since the "bugs" are a classic part of sci-fi.

It doesn't really matter what any of us want though does it? GW is going to continue driving the narrative forward in terms of SM vs CSM and that'll be that.

Brian is absolutely correct in that there are plenty of campaigns where a xeno faction was only the appetizer to the "real" threat of Chaos.

As you've only played since 5th Ed, I can see why you'd think this the norm. It wasn't, for a long time.

except as they note. we do have xenos stand alones, shield of bhaal, damocles gulf. as I said (I started in 5th edition too BTW) this isn't a xenos issue, but it's definalty an ORKS issue.

TLDR: It doesn't matter what you play atm, it is bad imo.

SM: because supplement and model release feel stretched beyond necicisty. In fact many a SM player is like why are they only just now releasing these models. Also new models take the piss price wise (3 dudes for that price?!?)

CSM: because hello hello a propper update would feel diffrent. And now they get supplements on top of it, with rules that got taken away from us and other factions due to beeing deemed unfun and yet SM get them and are fine?

DG: because their Trait became useless.

TS: because the army just feels unfinished compared to even DG.

Craftworlders: Because A the new box sucks and B most of the range is still ancient.

Dark Eldar: "DUDE, where's my HQ section" the army.

Orkz; Yeah that "Orktober" was a joke, especially sad because my first real army was orkz. Feth GW..

Snowflake Marines: See CSM, except loyalist version.

SoB: A whole update, 0 hype really, instead we get more primar(is) exemples on how to NOT balance output.

Necrons: Cries in questionable ruledesign and model release schedule.

Tau: What's an Auxxilia?

GSC: The ambush faction, can't T1 deploy.

Nids: Model release when?

FW index armies: Yeah we get it Bleighs dead, that doesn't mean that you can just now ignore his legacy by spitting on it main GW rules team. Eldar Corsairs don't exist anymore, DKoK has now 1 list and not 2 like they had before, R&H is a fiasko....


Did i forget someone?

Daemons: Yeah if you don't play Khorne or slaanesh.... meh models and wierd rules .

AM: To say Cadian models have aged somewhat badly is a understatement.