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 TedNugent wrote:
It's not just Marines, it's specifically vanilla marines.

DA, BA, Grey Knights, and SW are all stuck in the same fail camp right now.

They even refused to extend the new Chaplain litanies, even post-FAQ, for no apparent reason at all.

most likely because GW plans on giving them their own unique Litanies.

meanwhile dark angels, blood angels and space wolves got the full new model wave release. (in fact they've gotten their own unique builds for leuitenants that vanilla marines don't. apparently only dark angels primaris Lts have figured out how to use a plasma pistol)

I have a few thousand points of Flesh Tearer's. And...With the coming of the Primaris Marines, sure. I've bought a few. I even own two Loyalist halfs of Shadowspear. But I've found myself more engaged with my Eldar. And more and more. My Sons of Cretacia, just kind of chill on my shelf gathering dust. I feel, that BA and sucessors are a 'test' for what will work and won't work and then the final product is the standard SM book. At least that's how it was in past editions.

 Shadowbrand wrote:
I have a few thousand points of Flesh Tearer's. And...With the coming of the Primaris Marines, sure. I've bought a few. I even own two Loyalist halfs of Shadowspear. But I've found myself more engaged with my Eldar. And more and more. My Sons of Cretacia, just kind of chill on my shelf gathering dust. I feel, that BA and sucessors are a 'test' for what will work and won't work and then the final product is the standard SM book. At least that's how it was in past editions.

a bit of a strange sentiment considering that Blood angels have come out after codex space marines ever since I've been playing 40k.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

I brought into the rhetoric GW fed us that things would be different in 8th. That they'd listen to the fanbase. That they were going to spread some of the love of new models. That they would balance models and factions as best they could, rather than on sales figures. It is starting to seem that this was all a load of hot air.

Don't think GW actually said any of this, it's more a case of certain parts of the community reading between the lines, hearing what they wanted to hear, then getting mad that it didn't materialise. Look at the "Orktober" debacle last year, which was the exact same thing.

Tbh, it's ever been thus; Space Marines have always been the primary focus of 40K, because that's what sells. I think there's an argument for this being a self-fulfilling prophecy (i.e. SM sell better than other factions, so they get more resources allocated, which makes them a more appealing faction, which means SM sell better than… etc, etc) but as long as people keep buying the new Space Marine hotness, GW have no disincentive to carry on as they were before.

Also, if you ignore the fact their Space Marines, the number of model releases is kinda down to having to build Primaris as a faction from the ground up, so of course they're going to get more releases than factions that have a lot of the bases covered.

Personally, I think the whole Primaris business is super-lame (models and lore), but I think it's nice that there's new SM rules that Classic Marines can benefit from too. Tbh, for me, the content hose largely spewing out stuff I'm not interested in for a bit is quite welcome, as it means I can just stop paying attention for a bit and catch up on my massive backlog of Orks, GsC and Guard stuff I need to get painted.

 Nazrak wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

I brought into the rhetoric GW fed us that things would be different in 8th. That they'd listen to the fanbase. That they were going to spread some of the love of new models. That they would balance models and factions as best they could, rather than on sales figures. It is starting to seem that this was all a load of hot air.

Don't think GW actually said any of this, it's more a case of certain parts of the community reading between the lines, hearing what they wanted to hear, then getting mad that it didn't materialise. Look at the "Orktober" debacle last year, which was the exact same thing.

Tbh, it's ever been thus; Space Marines have always been the primary focus of 40K, because that's what sells. I think there's an argument for this being a self-fulfilling prophecy (i.e. SM sell better than other factions, so they get more resources allocated, which makes them a more appealing faction, which means SM sell better than… etc, etc) but as long as people keep buying the new Space Marine hotness, GW have no disincentive to carry on as they were before.

Also, if you ignore the fact their Space Marines, the number of model releases is kinda down to having to build Primaris as a faction from the ground up, so of course they're going to get more releases than factions that have a lot of the bases covered.

Personally, I think the whole Primaris business is super-lame (models and lore), but I think it's nice that there's new SM rules that Classic Marines can benefit from too. Tbh, for me, the content hose largely spewing out stuff I'm not interested in for a bit is quite welcome, as it means I can just stop paying attention for a bit and catch up on my massive backlog of Orks, GsC and Guard stuff I need to get painted.

You know what's sad:
GW got the feedback and the wakeupcall in the form of the sisters demand.
Yet they don't care.

BrianDavion wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
It's not just Marines, it's specifically vanilla marines.

DA, BA, Grey Knights, and SW are all stuck in the same fail camp right now.

They even refused to extend the new Chaplain litanies, even post-FAQ, for no apparent reason at all.

most likely because GW plans on giving them their own unique Litanies.

meanwhile dark angels, blood angels and space wolves got the full new model wave release. (in fact they've gotten their own unique builds for leuitenants that vanilla marines don't. apparently only dark angels primaris Lts have figured out how to use a plasma pistol)

Why is it you figure GW has these lofty plans ? People keep saying how they are apparently planning all their Master plans out there decades in the making but with all this planning they could find a better way to ramp up the power curve than to smash new marines with even more powerful supplements ? Drop them all without a day 1 faq to clear up the OP issues ?

While I believe they have models years in the making as they need that for the creation and distribution process. It feels like the rules don't get that much consideration. Also they don't seem to wrap their heads around a stop gap fix for the mean time. Like giving the other marine chapters access to the new litanies would be a nice stop gap fix, regardless of what their eventual consideration will be.

Same as why keep in the SiA exception to Deathwatch bolter discipline with all these new rules regular marines have now, they should remove that exception but they won't and I don't want to hear " They have a plan " as I doubt it. Stop gap fixes are a thing and they can be used to make things better till the proper fix is in place. It isn't hard and doesn't cost them a thing aside from a little time to place it in a FAQ.

There always feels to be little rhyme to their reasons and just saying " They have a plan " is little to hang your hat on as you don't know how long this plan will take, if they have any at all.

a bit of a strange sentiment considering that Blood angels have come out after codex space marines ever since I've been playing 40k.

 Nazrak wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

I brought into the rhetoric GW fed us that things would be different in 8th. That they'd listen to the fanbase. That they were going to spread some of the love of new models. That they would balance models and factions as best they could, rather than on sales figures. It is starting to seem that this was all a load of hot air.

Don't think GW actually said any of this, it's more a case of certain parts of the community reading between the lines, hearing what they wanted to hear, then getting mad that it didn't materialise. Look at the "Orktober" debacle last year, which was the exact same thing.

Tbh, it's ever been thus; Space Marines have always been the primary focus of 40K, because that's what sells. I think there's an argument for this being a self-fulfilling prophecy (i.e. SM sell better than other factions, so they get more resources allocated, which makes them a more appealing faction, which means SM sell better than… etc, etc) but as long as people keep buying the new Space Marine hotness, GW have no disincentive to carry on as they were before.

Also, if you ignore the fact their Space Marines, the number of model releases is kinda down to having to build Primaris as a faction from the ground up, so of course they're going to get more releases than factions that have a lot of the bases covered.

Personally, I think the whole Primaris business is super-lame (models and lore), but I think it's nice that there's new SM rules that Classic Marines can benefit from too. Tbh, for me, the content hose largely spewing out stuff I'm not interested in for a bit is quite welcome, as it means I can just stop paying attention for a bit and catch up on my massive backlog of Orks, GsC and Guard stuff I need to get painted.

GW did precisely say they'd listen to the customers, just like they said they knew that bloat and out of control burn and churn was a big cause for 6th and 7th death. They said it would be a different GW, we didn't all dream up their false promises and claims. Some fans I believe like to just dismiss valid complaints of blatant lies, double speak and talking our of both sides of their mouth though. If they aren't back tracking on things they said, they are being awfully vague to try and sell junk no one needs, like the small rule book that was printed out of date and for no real reason. Trying their hardest to hype up a piece of trash product in the hopes some poor schmucks would buy it and waste their money then make the post on it unseen to let it quietly die. These are not things a " good " company does. They are just as bad as they ever were and the best PR they did was putting some smiles out there and replying to comments so people feel like they care and will defend them. with such force.

I'm not saying they are pure evil, but they are not our friends and they do lie quite often and without shame.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shadowbrand wrote:


a bit of a strange sentiment considering that Blood angels have come out after codex space marines ever since I've been playing 40k.

Maybe I just remember incorrectly. But I remember the 5th ed BA update coming, then the Wolf one. Before 6th came about.

 TedNugent wrote:
It's not just Marines, it's specifically vanilla marines.

DA, BA, Grey Knights, and SW are all stuck in the same fail camp right now.

They even refused to extend the new Chaplain litanies, even post-FAQ, for no apparent reason at all.

They should have given ALL marines the doctorines etc as a faq - otherwise we have to have yet more super special articles in White Dwarf, Warhammer Community etc on these over hyped and hugely bloated sub-sub factions.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
It's not just Marines, it's specifically vanilla marines.

DA, BA, Grey Knights, and SW are all stuck in the same fail camp right now.

They even refused to extend the new Chaplain litanies, even post-FAQ, for no apparent reason at all.

They should have given ALL marines the doctorines etc as a faq - otherwise we a faction I don't play might get a codex and we can't have that!.

fixed that for you.

Except he does play those factions. He has been very clear on that point repeatedly, but it seems you don't care to read his posts. (The only reason I know is because he's said it so many dang times in several threads about marines) I'm only mentioning this because it bothers me to see the same false accusation fly every time I enter threads like these.

So long as people can put a positive spin on things, they will for GW. I don't really get why when all we are to them is money that walks but eh, it is what it is.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
It's not just Marines, it's specifically vanilla marines.

DA, BA, Grey Knights, and SW are all stuck in the same fail camp right now.

They even refused to extend the new Chaplain litanies, even post-FAQ, for no apparent reason at all.

They should have given ALL marines the doctorines etc as a faq - otherwise we a faction I don't play might get a codex and we can't have that!.

fixed that for you.

"Sigh" as noted - I have Wolves and Angels armies - but I guess it fits your narrative that I don't..... How ranging is your collection/army you play?

BrianDavion wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
It's not just Marines, it's specifically vanilla marines.

DA, BA, Grey Knights, and SW are all stuck in the same fail camp right now.

They even refused to extend the new Chaplain litanies, even post-FAQ, for no apparent reason at all.

most likely because GW plans on giving them their own unique Litanies.

meanwhile dark angels, blood angels and space wolves got the full new model wave release. (in fact they've gotten their own unique builds for leuitenants that vanilla marines don't. apparently only dark angels primaris Lts have figured out how to use a plasma pistol)

And GK get nothing. Also with the number of codex in the game right now, one could have to wait 12 months or more for a rule update, and that is assuming a w40k codex or supplement every second month or so.

Karol wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
It's not just Marines, it's specifically vanilla marines.

DA, BA, Grey Knights, and SW are all stuck in the same fail camp right now.

They even refused to extend the new Chaplain litanies, even post-FAQ, for no apparent reason at all.

most likely because GW plans on giving them their own unique Litanies.

meanwhile dark angels, blood angels and space wolves got the full new model wave release. (in fact they've gotten their own unique builds for leuitenants that vanilla marines don't. apparently only dark angels primaris Lts have figured out how to use a plasma pistol)

And GK get nothing. Also with the number of codex in the game right now, one could have to wait 12 months or more for a rule update, and that is assuming a w40k codex or supplement every second month or so.

They could and should have done a general "marine" update with the new codex and the seemingly endless additional releases, as you say its not as if they are all going to get Codexes yet again ( at least I hope not!)

Hell they could have even done a Supplement with them all in - been complaining but at least it would have been done.

The DA Primaris Lt being the only one with a Plasma Pistol is a great symbol of the problem with pretending Chapters are so very different and that most units would not have annaologies in other Chapters. But GW is on the opposite path to consilidation for the Marines and consquently the game and ALL other factions suffer for it.

My mom always says that it doesn't matter what you should have done, or what you wanted to do. What matter is what you did. We are past the codex cycle in 8th, and started a new one.
Now I don't have enough expiriance to know if this means there is or isn't going to be a 9th ed or just an 8.5 ed. In the end the names are probably pointless. To me what means is what GW did over the 2 years in 8th, specially to my faction, because it is the thing I have to play with. And from their treatment of GK it doesn't look as if GW is doing a good job, in fact it looks more as if they are not doing any job at all. GK don't even have new 8th ed lore. It is as if they stoped existing as soon as gulliman came to terra.



And codex don't matter much in the end, if they are bad. What if GW gets "scared" by people reaction to doctrins, and they are right now working, I hope, on a GK one. And in 9-12 months the new codex GK comes out with a nice nerfed doctrin, nerfed stratagems and unit interaction. But the new adjusted book still has to play vs the good books, that came out when GW went ham with rules.

Ain't even a GK problem to be honest. Just look at csm 2.0 and marines 2.0. That is two books so different they maybe writen for two different editions of w40k.

 Mr Morden wrote:

Karol wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
It's not just Marines, it's specifically vanilla marines.

DA, BA, Grey Knights, and SW are all stuck in the same fail camp right now.

They even refused to extend the new Chaplain litanies, even post-FAQ, for no apparent reason at all.

most likely because GW plans on giving them their own unique Litanies.

meanwhile dark angels, blood angels and space wolves got the full new model wave release. (in fact they've gotten their own unique builds for leuitenants that vanilla marines don't. apparently only dark angels primaris Lts have figured out how to use a plasma pistol)

And GK get nothing. Also with the number of codex in the game right now, one could have to wait 12 months or more for a rule update, and that is assuming a w40k codex or supplement every second month or so.

They could and should have done a general "marine" update with the new codex and the seemingly endless additional releases, as you say its not as if they are all going to get Codexes yet again ( at least I hope not!)

Hell they could have even done a Supplement with them all in - been complaining but at least it would have been done.

The DA Primaris Lt being the only one with a Plasma Pistol is a great symbol of the problem with pretending Chapters are so very different and that most units would not have annaologies in other Chapters. But GW is on the opposite path to consilidation for the Marines and consquently the game and ALL other factions suffer for it.

I feel this may get worse as they focus completely on Plastic. If they cannot do smaller runs for other armys. Needing to justify the plastic production, then it may be a case that even popular armys cannot justify more than minimum support.
This is where i wish they had used Forge world for when dealing with 40k. right now a new charecter mini in plastic is super expensive here anyway.

But guys, they have a plan, this is all part of a GW master plan of unified marine power for all. We just have to wait and see and if it doesn't work out. They never said it, we were just assured by others it was part of a plan. It's been generations in the making, I swear.

Apple fox wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Karol wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
It's not just Marines, it's specifically vanilla marines.

DA, BA, Grey Knights, and SW are all stuck in the same fail camp right now.

They even refused to extend the new Chaplain litanies, even post-FAQ, for no apparent reason at all.

most likely because GW plans on giving them their own unique Litanies.

meanwhile dark angels, blood angels and space wolves got the full new model wave release. (in fact they've gotten their own unique builds for leuitenants that vanilla marines don't. apparently only dark angels primaris Lts have figured out how to use a plasma pistol)

And GK get nothing. Also with the number of codex in the game right now, one could have to wait 12 months or more for a rule update, and that is assuming a w40k codex or supplement every second month or so.

They could and should have done a general "marine" update with the new codex and the seemingly endless additional releases, as you say its not as if they are all going to get Codexes yet again ( at least I hope not!)

Hell they could have even done a Supplement with them all in - been complaining but at least it would have been done.

The DA Primaris Lt being the only one with a Plasma Pistol is a great symbol of the problem with pretending Chapters are so very different and that most units would not have annaologies in other Chapters. But GW is on the opposite path to consilidation for the Marines and consquently the game and ALL other factions suffer for it.

I feel this may get worse as they focus completely on Plastic. If they cannot do smaller runs for other armys. Needing to justify the plastic production, then it may be a case that even popular armys cannot justify more than minimum support.
This is where i wish they had used Forge world for when dealing with 40k. right now a new charecter mini in plastic is super expensive here anyway.

True - we do have the situaton where not only GW but FW has a massive production and catalogue of Marines and very little else.

 Mr Morden wrote:

Apple fox wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Karol wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
It's not just Marines, it's specifically vanilla marines.

DA, BA, Grey Knights, and SW are all stuck in the same fail camp right now.

They even refused to extend the new Chaplain litanies, even post-FAQ, for no apparent reason at all.

most likely because GW plans on giving them their own unique Litanies.

meanwhile dark angels, blood angels and space wolves got the full new model wave release. (in fact they've gotten their own unique builds for leuitenants that vanilla marines don't. apparently only dark angels primaris Lts have figured out how to use a plasma pistol)

And GK get nothing. Also with the number of codex in the game right now, one could have to wait 12 months or more for a rule update, and that is assuming a w40k codex or supplement every second month or so.

They could and should have done a general "marine" update with the new codex and the seemingly endless additional releases, as you say its not as if they are all going to get Codexes yet again ( at least I hope not!)

Hell they could have even done a Supplement with them all in - been complaining but at least it would have been done.

The DA Primaris Lt being the only one with a Plasma Pistol is a great symbol of the problem with pretending Chapters are so very different and that most units would not have annaologies in other Chapters. But GW is on the opposite path to consilidation for the Marines and consquently the game and ALL other factions suffer for it.

I feel this may get worse as they focus completely on Plastic. If they cannot do smaller runs for other armys. Needing to justify the plastic production, then it may be a case that even popular armys cannot justify more than minimum support.
This is where i wish they had used Forge world for when dealing with 40k. right now a new charecter mini in plastic is super expensive here anyway.

True - we do have the situaton where not only GW but FW has a massive production and catalogue of Marines and very little else.

that's mostly because forgeworld has shifted priorities mind you. focusing mostly on the horus heresy and specialist games. If you discount Heresy stuff that just happens to have 40k rules to increase sales, I think forge world has produced maybe a half dozen kits total in the past 15 years.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Apple fox wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Karol wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
It's not just Marines, it's specifically vanilla marines.

DA, BA, Grey Knights, and SW are all stuck in the same fail camp right now.

They even refused to extend the new Chaplain litanies, even post-FAQ, for no apparent reason at all.

most likely because GW plans on giving them their own unique Litanies.

meanwhile dark angels, blood angels and space wolves got the full new model wave release. (in fact they've gotten their own unique builds for leuitenants that vanilla marines don't. apparently only dark angels primaris Lts have figured out how to use a plasma pistol)

And GK get nothing. Also with the number of codex in the game right now, one could have to wait 12 months or more for a rule update, and that is assuming a w40k codex or supplement every second month or so.

They could and should have done a general "marine" update with the new codex and the seemingly endless additional releases, as you say its not as if they are all going to get Codexes yet again ( at least I hope not!)

Hell they could have even done a Supplement with them all in - been complaining but at least it would have been done.

The DA Primaris Lt being the only one with a Plasma Pistol is a great symbol of the problem with pretending Chapters are so very different and that most units would not have annaologies in other Chapters. But GW is on the opposite path to consilidation for the Marines and consquently the game and ALL other factions suffer for it.

I feel this may get worse as they focus completely on Plastic. If they cannot do smaller runs for other armys. Needing to justify the plastic production, then it may be a case that even popular armys cannot justify more than minimum support.
This is where i wish they had used Forge world for when dealing with 40k. right now a new charecter mini in plastic is super expensive here anyway.

True - we do have the situaton where not only GW but FW has a massive production and catalogue of Marines and very little else.

that's mostly because forgeworld has shifted priorities mind you. focusing mostly on the horus heresy and specialist games. If you discount Heresy stuff that just happens to have 40k rules to increase sales, I think forge world has produced maybe a half dozen kits total in the past 15 years.

Half a dozen special kits for one Sub-faction?

But all those doezens of "30k" kits are available for our Marine armies - why should that be ignored when it adds to the massive range of models available for one Super sub-faction of the Imperium???

Whereas every other faction gets nothing? The only other ones I can think of is Knights and the Adeptus Custodes which they did but for some reason absolutely will not do for Sisters of Silence and Ad Mech.

Why does GW/FW have this issue with cross selling - they are better than they used to be with finally managing to have rules for various different games - especially in AOS. Sadly FW don't bother with AOS anymore.

Necromunda gangs could have had 40k rules for use by both Imperials and Chaos as generic "gangs" which show up in various lore.

Why do they only produce stuff for the Marines - all it does is promote the self fulffiling prophercy of "Dude marines sells - cos thats mainly what we make, so lets just make more Marines" - arguable FW is growing worse at this than GW.