Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

As the title suggests, shouldn't the Orks in theory be Khornes favourite race? They live for battle, they thrive in it and its really the only thing they have in mind. Is there an established lore reason as to why khorne doesn't constantly give his blessing to some powerful Ork bosses? Is it because orks are too crude and simple to be influenced by chaos, or is it because Khorne doesn't want to mess with Gork and Mork (or is it Mork and Gork)?

Gork and Mork usually keep Khorne away from poaching their ladz, but occasionally orks can fall to Chaos and when that happens it is usually to Khorne. It is rare though because the Ork mob mentality tends to discourage such variant thinking (often violently).

There has been occasions.

However I think it's more down to the reason of killing. Use Blood Angels as an example too.

Blood Angels don;t fall to Khorn because their wrath and Anger, sake for killing (even the most vampire and blood thirsty ones ((literally)) ) kill for the sake of the emperor and to avenge sanguinius. A righteous wrath if you will.

Khorne is "blood for the blood god", to them killing is all that matters and all that sustains.

Orks are different believe it or not. To them it's all one big game, granted they don't realize only they think it's a game. But "Orks iz made for fightin". Not killing, fighting. Killing just so happens to be a massive by product of their fighting. Orks enjoy the sport of combat.

Orks are jovial and thrill seeking in their approach to violence, honestly that's more Slaaneshi than Khornate, they love a good scrap and take great enjoyment in carnage. Only the Storm Boyz with their 'seriousness' and constant drills and grimdark attitude would fall into the Khornate vision of war, which was why back in the day in the renegade orks lists you could take khorne's stormboyz.


... and yeah, Gork n Mork beat the seven shades of gak out of Khorne in the old fluff for trying to poach, so he stays well clear of them.

Tuska Daemonkilla
Greatest champion of khorne

Orks can fall to anything (as any alien can), but how that MANIFESTS will be different.

Stormboyz used to be khorne worshippers...

The big 4 are very broad in their realm.

Slannesh is all about excess - and Orks LOVE excess.

I can totally see an Ork force corrupted by slannesh entirely speed freakin around. Obsessed with going as fast as possible.

even tzeentch is possible. Wyrdboyz and Commandos are within the realm of scheming and magic.

EDIT: brain wave. Bring back DOOM RIDER but as an Ork champion of slannesh.

Not Online!!! wrote:Tuska Daemonkilla
Greatest champion of khorne

This is the second best ork lore in my opinion and the only happy ending we ever got in 40k I think. The only one that tops this for me is the warboss who went back in time through some warp shenanigans where he killed himself to get his favourite gun a second time....orkiest bit of lore in all of 40k for me.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Orks are jovial and thrill seeking in their approach to violence, honestly that's more Slaaneshi than Khornate, they love a good scrap and take great enjoyment in carnage. Only the Storm Boyz with their 'seriousness' and constant drills and grimdark attitude would fall into the Khornate vision of war, which was why back in the day in the renegade orks lists you could take khorne's stormboyz.


... and yeah, Gork n Mork beat the seven shades of gak out of Khorne in the old fluff for trying to poach, so he stays well clear of them.

I actually find the idea hilarious that khorne of all people would have to tread lightly as to not anger gork and mork (or mork and gork) when he would try to claim an ork warboss for himself.

In short?

Each and every Snot, Grot and Ork believes wholeheartedly in Gork and Mork. Every last one of them.

What can Khorne offer that Gork and Mork can't? When you're an Ork, you can do pretty much what you want, provided you're big enough.

And if you're not big enough, keep on fighting and growing until you get perished, or are big enough to be Boss.

There's nothing for Khorne to get a toehold on, because Orky Society makes for happy Orks, 100% of the time.

I think one of the Eldar codexes has a bit where one of their philosophers says that while everyone looks down on Orks they're the only ones who have a really good society for its members that avoided Chaos. Except Necrons who ruined themselves before Chaos got a chance.

Yup, Orks are happy fighting. As was noted, they enjoy a good punch up amongst themselves when they get bored. Someone might die, sure, but the point is supremacy.

If you beat someone down and enslave them, you get free labour. You don’t have to sharpen your choppa, you get a slave to do it! Same deal with any day to day chore you don’t feel like doing. Orks are powerful so they can boss other people around, not kill them.

I assume that by being more of a fungus than an animal, Khorne sees them as the impossible burger of bloodshed.

Khorne is Gork. Tzeentch is Mork.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
In short?

Each and every Snot, Grot and Ork believes wholeheartedly in Gork and Mork. Every last one of them.

What can Khorne offer that Gork and Mork can't? When you're an Ork, you can do pretty much what you want, provided you're big enough.

And if you're not big enough, keep on fighting and growing until you get perished, or are big enough to be Boss.

There's nothing for Khorne to get a toehold on, because Orky Society makes for happy Orks, 100% of the time.

I absolutely love this

Usually you'd expect an unsatisfying reason to hand wave away why there aren't chaos orks, but in this case the fluff fully justifies it and makes orks better for it

 Snake Tortoise wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
In short?

Each and every Snot, Grot and Ork believes wholeheartedly in Gork and Mork. Every last one of them.

What can Khorne offer that Gork and Mork can't? When you're an Ork, you can do pretty much what you want, provided you're big enough.

And if you're not big enough, keep on fighting and growing until you get perished, or are big enough to be Boss.

There's nothing for Khorne to get a toehold on, because Orky Society makes for happy Orks, 100% of the time.

I absolutely love this

Usually you'd expect an unsatisfying reason to hand wave away why there aren't chaos orks, but in this case the fluff fully justifies it and makes orks better for it

There's a teeny bit more to it than that.

Orks believe in being "Orky". Any ork (or grot) that's not "Orky" enough tends to be... Aggressively purged. So while the occasional one is probably not satisfied, they get a choppa in the brain pretty fast.

To paraphrase TTS: Khorne isn't the god of wanton violence, he is the god of Honour and Strength too. Violence is to be used as a means to an end, even if that end is sometimes just to get the blood flowing or to establish your dominance.

Khorne will never deceive you or stab you in the back, he will just stab you in the face until your face no longer resembles a face.

Hellebore wrote:


Stormboyz used to be khorne worshippers...

T

I've read this a few times, something like in the 2nd or 3rd ork codex. Does anyone recall exactly what this did? Like, stormboyz could take a mark of khorne. I'm just curious if there was a fluff explanation or what it did.

Nurglitch wrote:
Khorne is Gork. Tzeentch is Mork.

I think you mean Khorne is Mork and Tzeentch is Gork.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
To paraphrase TTS: Khorne isn't the god of wanton violence, he is the god of Honour and Strength too. Violence is to be used as a means to an end, even if that end is sometimes just to get the blood flowing or to establish your dominance.

Khorne will never deceive you or stab you in the back, he will just stab you in the face until your face no longer resembles a face.

Is this still canon? I know that this was the fluff back in the day and I greatly enjoy this side of Khorne, him caring for honorable combat and even punishing those killing someone who can't even put up a decent fight. Now, I am not as up to date on my chaos and demon lore as I'd like to be, but I think Khornes personality has been somewhat retconend in the sense that he does not care anymore who gets killed and how, as long as there is indiscriminate slaughter. Am i correct in this or is the "honorable" side of khorne still in the recent fluff?

While I don’t have a specific source, I recall Angron observing that his legion weren’t soldiers, they were murderers. They were sent in to shock and awe a populace into submission. Men,women, children, mutant, xeno, it did not matter. They were like a virus bomb you didn’t need to detoxify after.

Lots of soap and water, but that was just to get the gore off of everything.

Khorne cares not from where the blood flows, only that it flows. Said some Beserker before he cut off his own head.

An ork's approach to violence is like a normal drinker's approach to a night of boozing in the pub with his mates. It's a fun social activity.

A follower of Khorne's approach to violence is like a hopeless alcoholic with a bottle of White Lightning. It's not any sort of fun. He just can't help himself. Being blasted out of his gourd feels awful, but at least it beats the unbearable horror of sobriety.

Tiberias wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
To paraphrase TTS: Khorne isn't the god of wanton violence, he is the god of Honour and Strength too. Violence is to be used as a means to an end, even if that end is sometimes just to get the blood flowing or to establish your dominance.

Khorne will never deceive you or stab you in the back, he will just stab you in the face until your face no longer resembles a face.

Is this still canon? I know that this was the fluff back in the day and I greatly enjoy this side of Khorne, him caring for honorable combat and even punishing those killing someone who can't even put up a decent fight. Now, I am not as up to date on my chaos and demon lore as I'd like to be, but I think Khornes personality has been somewhat retconend in the sense that he does not care anymore who gets killed and how, as long as there is indiscriminate slaughter. Am i correct in this or is the "honorable" side of khorne still in the recent fluff?

As is often said, Khorne cares not from where the blood flows, only that it flows. However, the point is to establish you're the strongest. Defeat an enemy in honourable combat? You were stronger than them and defeated them. Slaughtered a bunch of tied and bound prisoners? Those prisoners were weak enough to be captured in the first place and you're establishing yourself as stronger.

It's worth noting that while the WAAAGH will unite orks, and Waaagh! energy is infectious, orks aren't all singlemindedly pursuing violent murder all the time.

Khorne wants blood and skulls, but often orks are quite happy putting a boot into a grot, or duffing up some of their mates. Khorne is not going to be satisfied with an ork who beans his mate with a spanner and takes his squig sandwich back.

Orks also have other pastimes, and passions, than violence. Driving fast, making loud noises, and squig eating/racing are popular. There's an ork glyph for a fun fair, so they enjoy carnivals (I think RT mentioned a ride where they strap in by their boots and are swung round in a circle until they get dizzy and fall over). Orks like racing and drinking fungus beer.

Other orks are a bit taken aback (if suitably impressed) by insanely violent orks like Grukk Facerippa. Boss Zagstrukk is notable for being a bloodthirsty loon.

While their society is motivated towards war, rather than peace, they aren't the maniacs that Khorne worshippers are (at least, not very many of them are).

Despite his name, Tuska Daemonkilla is essentially Chaos Chosen for his ability to provide Khorne with endless entertainment right at the doorstep of the Brass Citadel. I would not be surprised if he was raised to the level of DP sometime in the future.

Based on the original Realms of Chaos books, the main in-universe reason why Khorne and Slaanesh are rivals is because Khorne sees bloodshed as a serious solemn business, and the end goal of existence. Slaanesh by contrast sees fighting and bloodshed as just one among many possible pleasures to be enjoyed. Khorne is about being focused down to a specific singularity of purpose, with all other goals and motivations being cast aside.

Ork Stormboyz of Khorne take the whole Stormboyz seriousness to a new level of devotion, which is why they are outcasts from mainstream Ork society. Orks like fighting, but that is different from being focused on the killing and shedding of blood and collecting of skulls. Orks have other activities such as raising Squigs, racing, etc... Not nearly focused enough for Khorne.

This thread reminded me of Tuska Daemonkilla.

For that, I love it.

pm713 wrote:
I think one of the Eldar codexes has a bit where one of their philosophers says that while everyone looks down on Orks they're the only ones who have a really good society for its members that avoided Chaos. Except Necrons who ruined themselves before Chaos got a chance.

Is this the one?

The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn? And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude.

 JNAProductions wrote:
This thread reminded me of Tuska Daemonkilla.

For that, I love it.

my boyz are now safely in a box, but i allways toyed with a modelling project for him and his fellows.

Also my pleasure. Probably the most badass warboss, amongst warbossess.

 Deadshot wrote:

pm713 wrote:
I think one of the Eldar codexes has a bit where one of their philosophers says that while everyone looks down on Orks they're the only ones who have a really good society for its members that avoided Chaos. Except Necrons who ruined themselves before Chaos got a chance.

Is this the one?

The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn? And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude.

That's the one. They have a point too.

There is no stress for an Ork. At all.

Their way of life is so universally accepted, it doesn’t allow for it.

You can be Boss if you’re big or cunnin’ enuff. And if da Lad you tried to duff ova woz bigger and more cunnin’, serve you right.

There’s no angst. No real disappointment. Even very little frustration, because even if it’s a weedy Grot, there’s always someone you can Lord it over.

Every member of their species accepts that you gotta be as ‘ard as you can be. They don’t fear deff, provided they got a good scrap out of it,

As for Grots? It’s their sheer cunnin’ that sees them through. And the hope of winding up in a Killa Kan so they can crump their former oppressors.

Whilst one hopelessly far from humanity’s ideal, it’s a society of absolute contentment.

Orks still want things. They're just things that Orks can obtain without the intervention of gods. A good scrap (or someone else's scrap) or a laugh, a shiny wagon and a shooty shoota.

Plus, notably in Evil Sun Rising, there are orks that are...unorky, and who aren't above shenanigans to advance their deviant agendas.