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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/14 20:19:37
Subject: GW continue to rake it in.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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its that they are pushing the complaint mongers out of the hobby
Yep yep, just like during Kirby era, when all the naysayers went away and GW had to work posthaste to change and act like they're nice people now. I really don't get people who stand up for corporations, they're rich enough to take care of themselves.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/14 20:20:25
Subject: GW continue to rake it in.
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
Vigo. Spain.
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Blood of the poenix was a huge failure. Just look for hiw many copies Element Games has, or Gobling gaming.
Thats a good thing if GW draws the correct conclusion (The value wasnt there) and not the wrong ones (Xenos vs Xenos dont sell)
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Crimson Devil wrote:
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote:Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/14 20:32:01
Subject: GW continue to rake it in.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I had expected it to be ether quite good, or very bleak at this point.
They seem to be producing more and faster, but also prices going up fast as well.
But some products are still left in quite a poor state, 40k may be the one in the worst state at this point.
Pricing is worrying, as right now I think some boxes are hitting extremes here that I not sure can see much more of a rise before breaking.
Could be they are so aggressive in there business approach they have many years left as well before they need to change any strategy.
Good for them. Automatically Appended Next Post: Cronch wrote: its that they are pushing the complaint mongers out of the hobby
Yep yep, just like during Kirby era, when all the naysayers went away and GW had to work posthaste to change and act like they're nice people now. I really don't get people who stand up for corporations, they're rich enough to take care of themselves.
GW is the Apple of this hobby.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/14 20:35:44
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/14 20:42:02
Subject: GW continue to rake it in.
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Galas wrote:Blood of the poenix was a huge failure. Just look for hiw many copies Element Games has, or Gobling gaming.
Thats a good thing if GW draws the correct conclusion (The value wasnt there) and not the wrong ones (Xenos vs Xenos dont sell)
The exception to the rule, perhaps? Not the best thing to hang a hat on to determine the "downfall" of GW. The Sisters box is going to be hang busters regardless of value.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/14 20:57:57
Subject: GW continue to rake it in.
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Been Around the Block
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Galas wrote:Blood of the poenix was a huge failure. Just look for hiw many copies Element Games has, or Gobling gaming.
Thats a good thing if GW draws the correct conclusion (The value wasnt there) and not the wrong ones (Xenos vs Xenos dont sell)
Surely if Element games has bought loads from GW the manufacturer it's a success? It's not GWs problem if Element games over ordered
Other indie companies managed to order and shift them well enough .
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/14 21:05:02
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/14 21:04:32
Subject: GW continue to rake it in.
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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
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Daedalus81 wrote: Galas wrote:Blood of the poenix was a huge failure. Just look for hiw many copies Element Games has, or Gobling gaming.
Thats a good thing if GW draws the correct conclusion (The value wasnt there) and not the wrong ones (Xenos vs Xenos dont sell)
The exception to the rule, perhaps? Not the best thing to hang a hat on to determine the "downfall" of GW. The Sisters box is going to be hang busters regardless of value.
Assuming it has loads and loads of copies and it really is going to sell out and GW isn’t just creating some artificial scarcity.
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Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/14 21:20:03
Subject: GW continue to rake it in.
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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Obispudkenobi wrote: Galas wrote:Blood of the poenix was a huge failure. Just look for hiw many copies Element Games has, or Gobling gaming.
Thats a good thing if GW draws the correct conclusion (The value wasnt there) and not the wrong ones (Xenos vs Xenos dont sell)
Surely if Element games has bought loads from GW the manufacturer it's a success? It's not GWs problem if Element games over ordered
Other indie companies managed to order and shift them well enough .
This is an interesting question.
On one hand, you’re spot on. The copies are still sold so far as GW care.
But? If third party suppliers find GW are making a habit of lumping them with non-moving stock? In future, that very much hits GW’s bottom line.
But. To balance. Those nay-saying, purely on the price tag? Time well tell. I absolutely agree a single boxed set was waaaaay too expensive for what it offered.
See, there’s the difference between price and value. As long as the consumer perceives value, the price isn’t really a factor. Now, value is of course incredibly subjective.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/14 21:21:58
Subject: GW continue to rake it in.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Voss wrote:Sqorgar- what alternatives are you thinking of? A lot of small companies have collapsed in the last year, and the medium-weight players in the industry are making their own dumb decisions.
Competition-wise, GW seems in a better position now than it was five years ago.
Honestly, I think GW's biggest competitor right now is Kickstarter, since it works in a similar way to GW's sales strategy - limited time, expensive prestige products that sell largely before anyone has a chance to crack the shrink wrap. Once that window closes, it is on to the next hype (often without even playing it). How easy is it to get excited about a $300 Necromunda box right after pumping a bunch of cash into a Zombicide kickstarter? It really does seem like there is room for both right now, but is their room for three? Four? Six? And for how long?
But beyond that, I think the most crucial place that GW is losing players is that the trend is now pushing towards shorter, more cooperative (even solo) games. The days of spending all weekend playing a single game of Axis and Allies is more or less behind us. GW, to their credit, does seem to realize this, and games like Kill Team and Underworlds were actual efforts at creating short game experiences, and it has been successful - but I think they are mainly taking players from their existing games rather than creating new fans.
Watching the Warhammer TV interviews, it seems like most of the people currently working at GW got their start with Hero Quest (or Space Hulk), but these days, people are getting that important first experience from GW's competitors. GW does have Blackstone Fortress, but it is really expensive ($110 for an expansion!) and the game isn't really better than what the competitors are offering. You can't buy Blackstone Fortress at the local Target, but you can get Imperial Assault or Zombicide there. Over on BoardGameGeek, Zombicide has 15k ratings, Imperial Assault has 18k ratings, while Blackstone Fortress has 579.
Right now, I don't think 40k itself has many natural competitors, but is starting to lose people by pricing them out (Blood of the Phoenix style). In that case, they'll look for something similar to 40k, but cheaper (like Star Wars Legion). But I think people aren't getting their Hero Quest moment from GW anymore. They are getting it somewhere else. They aren't becoming lifelong miniature gamers, they are becoming lifelong board gamers. They are falling in love with the same experiences, but letting it take them somewhere else. Somewhere not GW.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/14 21:23:20
Subject: GW continue to rake it in.
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Obispudkenobi wrote:
Surely if Element games has bought loads from GW the manufacturer it's a success? It's not GWs problem if Element games over ordered
It could be a problem for GW (as well as EG of course). We don't know if Element Games over-ordered or the stock simply didn't sell as expected. Considering a huge amount of GW sales come from such kind of partners, if these don't perform as intended it will eventually affect GW. In these type of situations, it can lead to stocking lower amount of products in the future due to anticipating lower sales, for example (less profit for everyone involved). Of course a gw account manager knows the answer better, but it is recommended that your business partners are healthy and don't have dead stock lying around.
More on topic, I guess it's great that they are making big money. But as a simple customer, I really don't care if a selected few are reaping the profits, just like with any other corporation.
I'm more concerned with their products actually being appealing enough for me to throw them the money. Unfortunately, it is currently not so much the case but maybe that changes in the future. Until then, it's simply one more of those fat corporations making loads, which at the end of the day is overall irrelevant.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/14 21:42:47
Subject: GW continue to rake it in.
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Been Around the Block
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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Obispudkenobi wrote: Galas wrote:Blood of the poenix was a huge failure. Just look for hiw many copies Element Games has, or Gobling gaming.
Thats a good thing if GW draws the correct conclusion (The value wasnt there) and not the wrong ones (Xenos vs Xenos dont sell)
Surely if Element games has bought loads from GW the manufacturer it's a success? It's not GWs problem if Element games over ordered
Other indie companies managed to order and shift them well enough .
This is an interesting question.
On one hand, you’re spot on. The copies are still sold so far as GW care.
But? If third party suppliers find GW are making a habit of lumping them with non-moving stock? In future, that very much hits GW’s bottom line.
But. To balance. Those nay-saying, purely on the price tag? Time well tell. I absolutely agree a single boxed set was waaaaay too expensive for what it offered.
See, there’s the difference between price and value. As long as the consumer perceives value, the price isn’t really a factor. Now, value is of course incredibly subjective.
I would agree if it was all Indies in the same boat, looking at gifts for geeks and darksphere who are elements main indie rivals they have single digits left of this box set, so one can only assume that element went in too heavy with their order to be left with such a high amount, and as such really doesn't prove the set was a failure as someone put it, yes it was more money than expected but still saved the buyer money.
Element will likely do some form of black Friday sale and reduce them to cost and recoup the investment so no harm no foul.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/14 21:47:50
Subject: GW continue to rake it in.
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Shas'la with Pulse Carbine
Eastern Fringe
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I know that a lot of people will scoff at this idea, but I think that this might just be the beginning of a truly astronomical rise in terms of company value and profits.
We are witnessing the beginning of the streaming wars, with several multi-billion dollar companies all throwing their hats into the ring. As others have mentioned, the LOTR films were huge for GW and with Amazon putting literally hundreds of millions into their new LOTR series, it could spark a renewed interest in the miniture line.
Also... with 'Eisenhorn' now in production, GW has a big and rich enough IP that could potentially spawn something similar to what we have seen with other properties such as DC, Marvel, Harry Potter, Game of Thrones etc. Who knows what the future will bring but people who are saying that this is the "peak" might be surprised.
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The first rule of unarmed combat is: don’t be unarmed. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/14 21:48:03
Subject: GW continue to rake it in.
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Fixture of Dakka
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VBS wrote:Obispudkenobi wrote:
Surely if Element games has bought loads from GW the manufacturer it's a success? It's not GWs problem if Element games over ordered
It could be a problem for GW (as well as EG of course). We don't know if Element Games over-ordered or the stock simply didn't sell as expected. Considering a huge amount of GW sales come from such kind of partners, if these don't perform as intended it will eventually affect GW. In these type of situations, it can lead to stocking lower amount of products in the future due to anticipating lower sales, for example (less profit for everyone involved). Of course a gw account manager knows the answer better, but it is recommended that your business partners are healthy and don't have dead stock lying around.
We've entered an era in which there are so many competing products on the market distributors have basically given up on restocking things. They buy what they think will sell out and won't reorder, even if there's demand, because they frankly don't have to. Oh, your players want more Looncurse? Well, we're gearing up for Crisis Protocol this week so no thanks. Let us know how many copies of the Sisters box you want though, because we won't bother ordering it if you want it later either. After it launches we'll be too busy shipping out Christmas editions of Gloomhaven.
GW is producing what it thinks will sell out because they get one shot to do so. If they sell out, distributors will make a bigger purchase next time. If they don't, distributors will buy less. Production itself is pretty trivial. They likely produce a good amount of extra sprues expecting to package them later into other sets. It's a weird state of the market and why you're seeing most games shift to big bang releases of box sets instead of an eternal product catalog players can shop from at their leisure.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/15 00:49:03
Subject: GW continue to rake it in.
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Walking Dead Wraithlord
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LunarSol wrote:VBS wrote:Obispudkenobi wrote: Surely if Element games has bought loads from GW the manufacturer it's a success? It's not GWs problem if Element games over ordered It could be a problem for GW (as well as EG of course). We don't know if Element Games over-ordered or the stock simply didn't sell as expected. Considering a huge amount of GW sales come from such kind of partners, if these don't perform as intended it will eventually affect GW. In these type of situations, it can lead to stocking lower amount of products in the future due to anticipating lower sales, for example (less profit for everyone involved). Of course a gw account manager knows the answer better, but it is recommended that your business partners are healthy and don't have dead stock lying around. We've entered an era in which there are so many competing products on the market distributors have basically given up on restocking things. They buy what they think will sell out and won't reorder, even if there's demand, because they frankly don't have to. Oh, your players want more Looncurse? Well, we're gearing up for Crisis Protocol this week so no thanks. Let us know how many copies of the Sisters box you want though, because we won't bother ordering it if you want it later either. After it launches we'll be too busy shipping out Christmas editions of Gloomhaven. GW is producing what it thinks will sell out because they get one shot to do so. If they sell out, distributors will make a bigger purchase next time. If they don't, distributors will buy less. Production itself is pretty trivial. They likely produce a good amount of extra sprues expecting to package them later into other sets. It's a weird state of the market and why you're seeing most games shift to big bang releases of box sets instead of an eternal product catalog players can shop from at their leisure. Its a marketing strategy based around praying on FOMO. And its very effective 8-9/10 esepcialy in this consumerism ramped up to 11 society. They have also seem to create shortages in strategic places as well as not be transparent at all in their product plans in the long term and its very clever... "Get it now because you never know if it will be available again". Sure, its tinfoilish, but its ruthless and makes logical sense. Their pricing model they use never really made logical sense so its the explanation I came up with lol.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/15 01:03:30
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/15 01:33:35
Subject: Re:GW continue to rake it in.
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Myrmidon Officer
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Here is an archive version: http://archive.is/YiD5h
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/15 01:56:41
Subject: GW continue to rake it in.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Hollow wrote:We are witnessing the beginning of the streaming wars, with several multi-billion dollar companies all throwing their hats into the ring. As others have mentioned, the LOTR films were huge for GW and with Amazon putting literally hundreds of millions into their new LOTR series, it could spark a renewed interest in the miniture line.
This is possible, but only if the Amazon show pulls in the viewers, and also if GW makes the Middle Earth SBG more accessible. Right now, it is kind of a mess and difficult to acquire outside of GW's website.
Also, I'm not sure that GW's license applies to Amazon's series (since it is an original work, taking place thousands of years before LotR), so you wouldn't necessarily see the new characters, battles, or events represented on the tabletop with GW miniatures. If someone else gets it (like FFG, who also has a Tolkien license), it'll probably take away business from GW.
Also... with 'Eisenhorn' now in production, GW has a big and rich enough IP that could potentially spawn something similar to what we have seen with other properties such as DC, Marvel, Harry Potter, Game of Thrones etc. Who knows what the future will bring but people who are saying that this is the "peak" might be surprised. 40k fans enjoy Eisenhorn, but I'm not sure the reverse will be true. I don't think people are going to see Eisenhorn and think, gee, I wonder what a battle between 200 space marines would play like? If GW was smart, they'd come up with something more intimate to go alongside the launch. Maybe bring back Inquisitor, or make an Eisenhorn version of Warhammer Quest.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/15 02:02:08
Subject: GW continue to rake it in.
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Sqorgar wrote: But what happens when GW stops bringing in new players because the prices are too high?
The prices have been too high for 40 years. When are you expecting this to occur exactly? Automatically Appended Next Post: Cronch wrote: EnTyme wrote:Cronch wrote:The pool of new blood always was and always will be limited.
I mean, only if people have suddenly stopped reproducing.
Out of the limited population of human beings on this earth, the population that is interested in scale modelling AND boardgaming at the same time is very limited. Considering the fact that fewer children get born now than in the past, and those children now have many more options for entertainment, yes, the pool of new players is limited.
This is so fantastic on so many levels. Thank you.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/15 02:06:57
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/15 10:57:41
Subject: GW continue to rake it in.
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Executing Exarch
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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Obispudkenobi wrote: Galas wrote:Blood of the poenix was a huge failure. Just look for hiw many copies Element Games has, or Gobling gaming.
Thats a good thing if GW draws the correct conclusion (The value wasnt there) and not the wrong ones (Xenos vs Xenos dont sell)
Surely if Element games has bought loads from GW the manufacturer it's a success? It's not GWs problem if Element games over ordered
Other indie companies managed to order and shift them well enough .
This is an interesting question.
On one hand, you’re spot on. The copies are still sold so far as GW care.
But? If third party suppliers find GW are making a habit of lumping them with non-moving stock? In future, that very much hits GW’s bottom line..
But. To balance. Those nay-saying, purely on the price tag? Time well tell. I absolutely agree a single boxed set was waaaaay too expensive for what it offered.
Fair points chap and I suspect Blood has also done fairly well with box splitters (based on ebay), being able to shift the contents and still turn a profit (although the surplus of Hellions and Vypers might be a PITA) so for all our squeeking I don;t think it'll change GW thinking
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/11/15 11:01:20
"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/15 11:21:35
Subject: GW continue to rake it in.
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Impassive Inquisitorial Interrogator
U.K.
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Sqorgar wrote:
Maybe bring back Inquisitor, or make an Eisenhorn version of Warhammer Quest.
There's a line from Archer that springs to mind
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/11/15 11:23:00
3 SPRUUUUUEESSSS!!!!
JWBS wrote:
I'm not going to re-read the lunacy that is the last few pages of this thread, but I'd be very surprised if anyone actually said that. Even that one guy banging on about how relatively difficult it might be for an Inquisitor to acquire power armour, I don't think even that guy said that. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/15 15:34:33
Subject: GW continue to rake it in.
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Fixture of Dakka
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Argive wrote:
Its a marketing strategy based around praying on FOMO. And its very effective 8-9/10 esepcialy in this consumerism ramped up to 11 society. They have also seem to create shortages in strategic places as well as not be transparent at all in their product plans in the long term and its very clever... "Get it now because you never know if it will be available again".
Sure, its tinfoilish, but its ruthless and makes logical sense. Their pricing model they use never really made logical sense so its the explanation I came up with lol.
I'd agree if GW was alone in their actions, but I follow a pretty large variety of companies and that just doesn't totally line up with what I'm seeing at any level; from the FLGS to interviews with developers. That's not to say that GW isn't doing things to increase profit. I have no assumption of any sort of altruism. It's just been my experience that when a company seems as committed to their craft as GW has been since Kirby left; unpopular decisions are usually motivated by external factors. In this instance, I think more than anything we're seeing GW react to a market in which the old model of high up front production costs of plastic molds that turns into pure profit as people keep buying Ork Boyz decades later isn't holding up. There's always something new whether GW is making it or someone else and GW isn't going to let that be someone else.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/15 15:38:46
Subject: GW continue to rake it in.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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"You want ants? Because that's how you get ants." ?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/15 19:28:31
Subject: GW continue to rake it in.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Just to add a little extra here's something from the Financial Times of all things:
https://www.ft.com/content/a89ead4e-05fd-11ea-9afa-d9e2401fa7ca
700% surge in shares and a 1.5 bn market value and all this tin foil hattery in this thread. heh.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/15 19:29:37
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/15 19:40:14
Subject: GW continue to rake it in.
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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Turnip Jedi wrote: Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Obispudkenobi wrote: Galas wrote:Blood of the poenix was a huge failure. Just look for hiw many copies Element Games has, or Gobling gaming.
Thats a good thing if GW draws the correct conclusion (The value wasnt there) and not the wrong ones (Xenos vs Xenos dont sell)
Surely if Element games has bought loads from GW the manufacturer it's a success? It's not GWs problem if Element games over ordered
Other indie companies managed to order and shift them well enough .
This is an interesting question.
On one hand, you’re spot on. The copies are still sold so far as GW care.
But? If third party suppliers find GW are making a habit of lumping them with non-moving stock? In future, that very much hits GW’s bottom line..
But. To balance. Those nay-saying, purely on the price tag? Time well tell. I absolutely agree a single boxed set was waaaaay too expensive for what it offered.
Fair points chap and I suspect Blood has also done fairly well with box splitters (based on ebay), being able to shift the contents and still turn a profit (although the surplus of Hellions and Vypers might be a PITA) so for all our squeeking I don;t think it'll change GW thinking
Yet it might.
We know GW are actively listening to their market.
So whilst they almost certainly made no loss with that set, it has been roundly, and justifiably criticised for its price tag compared to the contents.
To again compare to the new Necromunda set. Most of the Necromunda set is new content. And even the Palanite’s are new enough to be attractive. So whilst expensive, it’s easier to perceive the value.
The Phoenix box? Well, the new models are very nice, I don’t think there’s any denying. And the two characters in particular welcome additions. But they can be bought outside of the set, given time. For existing players, there was limited appeal, price aside. Seriously. It could’ve matched Feast of Bone (or whatever it was) with the £110 price tag, and still be considered of poorer value.
Perhaps it was a toe in the water. Maybe it was priced as a result of an arcane and unknowable pricing structure. Us mere plebs will likely never know.
But it’s the first thing in a good while that’s genuinely disgruntled GW’s customers. And when I say genuinely, I mean even the most deliberately obtuse of GW fans can’t really argue it was a poor show.
So I put it to my fellow Dakkanauts that GW were testing the Price Ceiling, and found it’s not that high. And in theory, it was a good set to try it on with. Everything in it is either pre-existing, or going to be released separately. Even if third party sellers trade their stock in (which I believe they can?), the sets can be easily broken down and repackaged as their stock versions. So GW we’re playing from a fairly protected position.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/15 20:46:46
Subject: GW continue to rake it in.
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Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot
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Why is it "tin-foil hat" material to wonder if the current market paradigm is long-term stable? Or if the current release velocity is long-term sustainable?
What necessitates that good results right now guarantee future good results?
Are we to really imagine that future results are not contingent upon the dynamics of future circumstances. but rather only necessitated by past results?
Sure, some people take weird stances on things, but there is a reasonable level of skepticism that seems rational. The question does not need to presuppose the answer. Is this all long-term stable and sustainable? Unclear, we can only wait and see.
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"Wir sehen hiermit wieder die Sprache als das Dasein des Geistes." - The Phenomenology of Spirit |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/15 20:50:16
Subject: GW continue to rake it in.
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
UK
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I think when people start saying tin foil hat theories they mean those saying that GW will crash and burn suddenly without question or suddenly triple the prices on everything in one week etc.. Ergo really off the wall theories.
Even GW has kept saying in their reports that their growth is not long term sustainable at this rate. They are clearly gunning for as much as they can, but they know and are open about the fact that it will eventually stop growing and level out. It might even reduce. However the core is that GW is going to remain profitable and; avoiding any major global disasters, should remain profitable for a good period of the future. They also ahve a lot of assets to strip out and downscale if things got really bad - if they have too. Of course msot of those are tied up with UK factories and highstreet stores - so dropping them might not be so simple (yes they can drop stores but then they've got to be tactical and ensure that there's local 3rd parties or club systems to take up the slack otherwise its saving money in year 1 and killing sales in year 2)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/15 20:55:12
Subject: GW continue to rake it in.
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Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks
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An Actual Englishman wrote:The next 6 months will be interesting.
Interest seems to be waning, sales seem to be dropping (BotP still has stock) and in general there seem to be less players, not more.
No doubt the success (or not) of Sisters, and Slaves to Darkness will be key, not to mention PA.
Good news, but I wonder how long GW can sustain this growth.
bubbles pop.
explosive carp... explosive carp. and its gone...
though I have to add, compared to the way that Star Wars went,
40K is almost not so bad.
I see more hasbro-ification of the brand.
that is big money, not in whales but in units sold.
until they end up in the 99cent bin with some stuff.
by then with so many markets saturated every which way,
they seem to have some room for growth.
I wanna see Ork tees at Walmart.
That is, if I ever went near a Walmart.
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/11/15 21:06:39
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/15 21:17:02
Subject: GW continue to rake it in.
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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H wrote:
Why is it "tin-foil hat" material to wonder if the current market paradigm is long-term stable? Or if the current release velocity is long-term sustainable?
What necessitates that good results right now guarantee future good results?
Are we to really imagine that future results are not contingent upon the dynamics of future circumstances. but rather only necessitated by past results?
Sure, some people take weird stances on things, but there is a reasonable level of skepticism that seems rational. The question does not need to presuppose the answer. Is this all long-term stable and sustainable? Unclear, we can only wait and see.
This is why I think we’ve recently received 3+ years of notice that WHFB will return.
It’s attention grabbing. And as much as I for one enjoy AoS, it’s welcome news.
They’ve promised Sisters of Battle type updates. That keeps eyes on GW, and in theory and intent, off would be competitors. That’s a move we wouldn’t have seen under Kirby. Because it’s very, very cunning.
It’s all over the relevant parts of the inter web, and has got Nerd jaws a-flappin. They’ve just generated word-of-mouth at a stroke.
That is smart business. Like, really smart. Give the people what they want is in nerd terms not a bad thing. And to potential future investors? It’s a signal they’re about to exploit yet another revenue stream, at the cost of their competitors.
Seriously. What can Mantic, PP and Warlord do to match such an announcement? From someone I know that works for Mantic, their response video was put together in half an hour. And she’s someone I absolutely trust to not just be claiming that.
The rest? Caught flat footed.
It’s a damned good move, and for a now cash rich company, pretty low risk. AoS is a bread winner. Therefore, so long as WHFB at least breaks even, it’s all good in the hood, because every penny thrown at GW isn’t going to someone else.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/15 21:18:15
Subject: GW continue to rake it in.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Overread wrote:I think when people start saying tin foil hat theories they mean those saying that GW will crash and burn suddenly without question or suddenly triple the prices on everything in one week etc.. Ergo really off the wall theories.
But GW did suddenly double the prices on everything in one week... At least, everything in a big box.
And I don't think GW will crash and burn, but I think they are poised to contract considerably. It will be worse than most people are probably expecting. At this point, I think GW is less creating new players so much as cannibalizing their own sales, even to the point of exhausting their customers. They've flooded the market with content that is, frankly, becoming hard to differentiate and the quality and value of which is shrinking. Their marketing and product releases are getting dangerously close to whale hunting, and while stuff like Farmville, Candy Crush, and Fortnite can have a few good years of outstanding profit, it never lasts, and it salts the fields so that nothing else will grow. Remember when Guitar Hero and Rockband were the biggest names in video games? What was the last music game that didn't instantly go into the clearance bin? Putting short term profit ahead of long term sustainability is generally a pretty short sighted way to do business.
I think GW has spent the last couple years building new bridges to replace the ones that it unceremoniously burned down before... only to start burning those too. Except right now, the ropes are just burning in one or two spots and the bridge can still be saved. So, I think it is worth being critical of GW when there's still a chance that they will listen.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/15 21:28:51
Subject: GW continue to rake it in.
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Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot
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Well, people say all sort of strange nonsensical things for all sort of reasons. Skepticism, tempered, is not a bad thing though. When people say weird, unfounded things, I like to just move on. Likely the are fact-resistant humans anyway.
As has been said though, even GW realized this is a hyper-release phase. Which, actually, thinking about it some more, makes me think this move back into WHFB makes more sense. That market is likely somewhat long-term stable, given GW previous retraction didn't kill it. In fact, it's alive enough for there to be all sort of people, shops, and systems making money off it. It won't be a blockbuster in all likelihood, but they don't need it to be.
One of the best ways to be protected from a downturn is to be "diversified." It's good business sense, I think. Having multiple lines, made for multiple markets and market segments likely makes a good bit of sense in the long-term. I don't see GW getting into health care, food, or space exploration, so it likely makes some sense to diversify what miniature offerings they have. The RnF market, where they already have substantial "assets" and ready-made product line available with "minimal" more investment needed seems like a sort of no-brainer. In fact, so little brain is needed that I basically told them in the last two community surveys that not remaking Tomb Kings was actually close to them throwing money away.
I'm not particularly smart, or insightful. I'm pretty stupid and even I can see it makes business sense to sell things you already have if people actually want them.
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"Wir sehen hiermit wieder die Sprache als das Dasein des Geistes." - The Phenomenology of Spirit |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/15 21:31:21
Subject: GW continue to rake it in.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Near as I can tell, Kings of War is only as popular as it is because of WHFB refugees. In the years that Mantic has had the game, they don't seem to have done much to differentiate the game or to create brand loyalty. It's more like they just left it at "we're almost the best of most of the rest" (Mantic's mission statement). They had a golden opportunity and did nothing with it, so it is hard to feel too much pity when they've squandered so much.
Not sure Privateer Press or Warlord are even in the same market. PP will show the next Warmachine game in a few months and MonPoc seems to be doing pretty well, while Warlord probably isn't worried too much that all their Bolt Action players will leave. I would think that CMON's Song of Ice and Fire and Para Bellum's Conquest would be the most worried, but SoI&F won't last three more years and Conquest seems to be actively interested in carving out a niche for itself.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/15 22:32:20
Subject: GW continue to rake it in.
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Executing Exarch
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Sqorgar wrote:Near as I can tell, Kings of War is only as popular as it is because of WHFB refugees. In the years that Mantic has had the game, they don't seem to have done much to differentiate the game or to create brand loyalty. It's more like they just left it at "we're almost the best of most of the rest" (Mantic's mission statement). They had a golden opportunity and did nothing with it, so it is hard to feel too much pity when they've squandered so much.
Not sure Privateer Press or Warlord are even in the same market. PP will show the next Warmachine game in a few months and MonPoc seems to be doing pretty well, while Warlord probably isn't worried too much that all their Bolt Action players will leave. I would think that CMON's Song of Ice and Fire and Para Bellum's Conquest would be the most worried, but SoI&F won't last three more years and Conquest seems to be actively interested in carving out a niche for itself.
I'd imagine wait and see how badly GW prices it, nudge their prices up whilst still looking reasonable and hope folks arent daft enough to go back, beyond maybe a BRB and Army book
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"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." |
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