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So nobody still entertaining the wraithknight with the point drops?
Suncannon/shield, 2 starcannons is 386pts, works well with Wrath of the Dead, plus another trait. Seems reasonable and a big target magnet.
I'm honestly debating taking a full on wraith list to a tournament
farseer and spiritseer
3x5 wraith units (axe, scythe, cannon)
2 serrpents
2 wraithlords
wraithknight
2 hemlocks
could also replace the knight with 2 prisms and a nightspinner, but doesn't look as fun
bullyboy wrote: So nobody still entertaining the wraithknight with the point drops?
Suncannon/shield, 2 starcannons is 386pts, works well with Wrath of the Dead, plus another trait. Seems reasonable and a big target magnet.
I'm honestly debating taking a full on wraith list to a tournament
farseer and spiritseer
3x5 wraith units (axe, scythe, cannon)
2 serrpents
2 wraithlords
wraithknight
2 hemlocks
could also replace the knight with 2 prisms and a nightspinner, but doesn't look as fun
I will be playing with one this week just to see.
Craftworld Traits
Expert Crafters
Masterful Shots
Spearhead
Autarch, Starglaive, Force Shield (73)
3 x Nightspinner, Twin Catapult, Doomweaver, CTM (117 each)
Fire Prism, Twin Catapult, Prism Cannon (142)
Hornet, 2 Hornet Pulse Laser (100)
Airwing
3 x Crimson Hunter Exarch, Hawkeye (176 each)
2 x Hemlock Wraithfighter, Spirit Stone (210 each)
Lord of War
Wraithknight, Scattershield, Suncannon, 2 Starcannon (386)
Total Points: 2000
Command Points: 5
Warlord Trait: Eye on Distant Events
Relic: Faolchu's Wing
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
bullyboy wrote: So nobody still entertaining the wraithknight with the point drops?
Suncannon/shield, 2 starcannons is 386pts, works well with Wrath of the Dead, plus another trait. Seems reasonable and a big target magnet.
I'm honestly debating taking a full on wraith list to a tournament
farseer and spiritseer
3x5 wraith units (axe, scythe, cannon)
2 serrpents
2 wraithlords
wraithknight
2 hemlocks
could also replace the knight with 2 prisms and a nightspinner, but doesn't look as fun
If i had the models id try this cincept. Bit wacky but i can see it working potentialy...
Automatically Appended Next Post: The idea is the dakka knight would be left alone as the enemy would have to focus on the sword and board knights as well as shining spears. Use fire and fade, and matchless agility to push them up the table and with ghost walk hit those juicy targets. They cannot be ignored. Its unfortunate about just 5++ but it is what it is.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/17 23:08:04
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
bullyboy wrote: How would people rank wraith guard (as far as best loadout)? I have 5 of each build.
I really like D-Scythes. Almost as good as cannons against tough targets and twice as good against infantry. Fearsome overwatch and can be fired while Advancing. Needs a Serpent though as the limited range means the Webway is no good for these dudes.
I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star.
bullyboy wrote: How would people rank wraith guard (as far as best loadout)? I have 5 of each build.
I really like D-Scythes. Almost as good as cannons against tough targets and twice as good against infantry. Fearsome overwatch and can be fired while Advancing. Needs a Serpent though as the limited range means the Webway is no good for these dudes.
DS and quicken still work right?
I think the axes are solid now. D-scythes getting a point drops made them a lot more viable for sure.
Id rate:
1. Axes
2. Wraith cannons (because range out of DS)
3. D-schythes - Lacking range out of DS. But I can se ethem being on par to cannon variants.
4. Sword wraiths - Not killy enough to justify drop in defence vs axe veriants imo.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
I have used a big block of 10 Wraithguard with D Scythe on foot. Move and the stratagem for auto 6" advance. Then, cast Quicken to move and advance again puts them in range on turn 1. However, they are a big target if you don't get first turn. Overall, not an overly competitive choice, but is a unit that will garner a lot of attention away from the rest of your army.
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
Sarigar wrote: Cannot use Quicken after deep strike, sadly.
I have used a big block of 10 Wraithguard with D Scythe on foot. Move and the stratagem for auto 6" advance. Then, cast Quicken to move and advance again puts them in range on turn 1. However, they are a big target if you don't get first turn. Overall, not an overly competitive choice, but is a unit that will garner a lot of attention away from the rest of your army.
Yeah I tried doing the specialist detachment with wraith cannons out of DS but felt you are essentially building your whole army around a 3CP Strat to give one slightly overcosted unit a 4++ for one turn which is very low pay off....
I mean Its not too bad with DS but you need that spirit seer to be in the position where the wraiths will come down which poses problems in an of itself. Unless you take alitoic and give him the relic and drop 1 CP on webway you are looking at 6 CP to drop spirit seer and wraiths and do the invuln Strat... Which is really poor pay off lol. Your opponent will just shoot everything else and ignore the wraiths and take the pain once deployed they are pretty slow.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
well, I dropped a single wraithlord for some shadow weavers, just for the extra CP and indirect (otherwise, replace the shadow weavers with either a wraithlord with shuircannon, starcannon and sword or wraithseer with starcannon)..
Definitely Wrath of the Dead but not sure on second trait. Spearhead will need to have same Craftworld traits (even if not optimal) so that Farseer can ride in serpents.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/18 04:47:20
bullyboy wrote: well, I dropped a single wraithlord for some shadow weavers, just for the extra CP and indirect (otherwise, replace the shadow weavers with either a wraithlord with shuircannon, starcannon and sword or wraithseer with starcannon)..
Definitely Wrath of the Dead but not sure on second trait. Spearhead will need to have same Craftworld traits (even if not optimal) so that Farseer can ride in serpents.
Master crafters and wrath of the dead. Looks real good for wraiths. Crafters doesn't do much for for hemlocks in this scenario as you are wounding on 2s so wrath of the dead does that. .
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/18 23:12:48
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
I used the sun cannon/starcannon loadout in my last game. He did well against black legion combined with vibro cannons and falcons with starcannon.
So much of my firepower had -3 ap that I was chewing through marines.
I'm going to take him again in my next game, possibly with 15 wraithblades/guard. With fortune he becomes pretty tough to take out, especially with the bonesinger healing him. I think he had 14 wounds left at the end of turn five so I was pretty happy with him.
Against non marine lists he may not be as effective but he loves shooting power armour.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I had the masters of concealment trait in the last game armywide but didn't count it on the knight, since he still has to have 50% concealment I think or does the trait override his specific rule?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/18 07:40:51
I had the masters of concealment trait in the last game armywide but didn't count it on the knight, since he still has to have 50% concealment I think or does the trait override his specific rule?
MoC is like Bolter Discipline in that it provides an entirely separate criteria for activation of a particular effect. In short, your Wraithknight gets cover so long as it meets either criteria.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/18 13:06:31
ive had decent success with flamer wraithguards getting in range on turn 1.
I just use matchless agility to give them an 11" move, then quicken them for 22" of movement in total. Unless the opponent deployed all the way in the back of his deployment zone, they will usually be able to connect.
If i end up not going first, i can just phantasm to put them in a safer spot.
I had the masters of concealment trait in the last game armywide but didn't count it on the knight, since he still has to have 50% concealment I think or does the trait override his specific rule?
MoC is like Bolter Discipline in that it provides an entirely separate criteria for activation of a particular effect. In short, your Wraithknight gets cover so long as it meets either criteria.
I got in a couple games against Alpha Legion using a Wraithknight. All in all, I am not sure he was worth the 386 points. I used Suncannon, Scattershield, and 2 Starcannons. The 2d6 roll is very swingy creating target priority challenges. The rest of my list was basically vehicles and 4 fliers present immediate threats.
My opponent just didn't have enough ranged shooting to handle so many vehicles and my army is geared to remove MEQ. The Wraithknight didn't get targeted in either game. I will get a few more games in to get a better picture of the Wraithknight.
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
VladimirHerzog wrote: ive had decent success with flamer wraithguards getting in range on turn 1.
I just use matchless agility to give them an 11" move, then quicken them for 22" of movement in total. Unless the opponent deployed all the way in the back of his deployment zone, they will usually be able to connect.
If i end up not going first, i can just phantasm to put them in a safer spot.
Because matchless agility states 'if that unit advances this phase,' you cannot get another auto 6" advance from quicken.
Page 10 of the rulebook faq,
"Q: Are you able to Advance or Fall Back in a different phase
when moving ‘as if it were the Movement phase’ through an
ability, Relic, Stratagem etc.?
A: Unless stated otherwise, yes. Note that if you do
Advance, and the unit has already Advanced this turn,
you should roll the dice again to see how much further
the unit moves (i.e. do not use the same roll made when
the unit first Advanced this turn)."
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/20 17:35:28
VladimirHerzog wrote: ive had decent success with flamer wraithguards getting in range on turn 1.
I just use matchless agility to give them an 11" move, then quicken them for 22" of movement in total. Unless the opponent deployed all the way in the back of his deployment zone, they will usually be able to connect.
If i end up not going first, i can just phantasm to put them in a safer spot.
Because matchless agility states 'if that unit advances this phase,' you cannot get another auto 6" advance from quicken.
Page 10 of the rulebook faq,
"Q: Are you able to Advance or Fall Back in a different phase
when moving ‘as if it were the Movement phase’ through an
ability, Relic, Stratagem etc.?
A: Unless stated otherwise, yes. Note that if you do
Advance, and the unit has already Advanced this turn,
you should roll the dice again to see how much further
the unit moves (i.e. do not use the same roll made when
the unit first Advanced this turn)."
huh, i thought that advancing added to your movement until the end of the turn, isnt that how kraken genestealers work?
No, that's not how advance works, it is added for that phase. From the main rules:
"When you pick a unit to move in the Movement phase, you can declare that it will Advance. Roll a dice and add the result to the Move characteristics of all models in the unit for that Movement phase."
If a unit advances twice in the same phase, that unit uses the same advance amount both times.
Page 9 rulebook faq.
Q: The rules for Advancing state that you roll a dice and add the
result to the Move characteristic of the models in the unit ‘for that
Movement phase’. If, for whatever reason, I am able to Advance
and then move normally with a unit in the same Movement
phase, does the number I added to the unit’s Move characteristic
when it Advanced still apply when I make the normal move with
the unit? For example, I have a unit whose Move characteristic
is 6". It Advances, and I roll a 6, adding that to its Move
characteristic to make 12". If it moves again in the same phase,
its Move characteristic is still 12", so can it move up to 12" when
making this move? A: Yes. Note that a unit cannot Advance more than once
in the same Movement phase, so the Move characteristic
of a unit can only be modified once in this manner.
Mchagen wrote: No, that's not how advance works, it is added for that phase. From the main rules:
"When you pick a unit to move in the Movement phase, you can declare that it will Advance. Roll a dice and add the result to the Move characteristics of all models in the unit for that Movement phase."
If a unit advances twice in the same phase, that unit uses the same advance amount both times.
Page 9 rulebook faq.
Q: The rules for Advancing state that you roll a dice and add the
result to the Move characteristic of the models in the unit ‘for that
Movement phase’. If, for whatever reason, I am able to Advance
and then move normally with a unit in the same Movement
phase, does the number I added to the unit’s Move characteristic
when it Advanced still apply when I make the normal move with
the unit? For example, I have a unit whose Move characteristic
is 6". It Advances, and I roll a 6, adding that to its Move
characteristic to make 12". If it moves again in the same phase,
its Move characteristic is still 12", so can it move up to 12" when
making this move? A: Yes. Note that a unit cannot Advance more than once
in the same Movement phase, so the Move characteristic
of a unit can only be modified once in this manner.
Exactly "In the same phase", with quicken it is moving in the psychic phase, so a different phase
Automatically Appended Next Post: You can use the stratagem again because it is a different phase but idk if thats worth 2 cp
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/20 21:21:35
bullyboy wrote: So nobody still entertaining the wraithknight with the point drops?
Suncannon/shield, 2 starcannons is 386pts, works well with Wrath of the Dead, plus another trait. Seems reasonable and a big target magnet.
The points are coming down to the level where I think it worth considering. Wrath of the Dead, Expert Crafters and Masters of Concealment all look like decent traits on a Suncannon Knight.
On a HWC Knight I would definitely favour MC over WotD as a single full reroll to hit and wound each turn is probably more useful on a small number of high-powered attacks than rerolling just 1s to wound.
I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star.
bullyboy wrote: So nobody still entertaining the wraithknight with the point drops?
Suncannon/shield, 2 starcannons is 386pts, works well with Wrath of the Dead, plus another trait. Seems reasonable and a big target magnet.
I'm honestly debating taking a full on wraith list to a tournament
farseer and spiritseer
3x5 wraith units (axe, scythe, cannon)
2 serrpents
2 wraithlords
wraithknight
2 hemlocks
could also replace the knight with 2 prisms and a nightspinner, but doesn't look as fun
I will be playing with one this week just to see.
Craftworld Traits
Expert Crafters
Masterful Shots
Spearhead
Autarch, Starglaive, Force Shield (73)
3 x Nightspinner, Twin Catapult, Doomweaver, CTM (117 each)
Fire Prism, Twin Catapult, Prism Cannon (142)
Hornet, 2 Hornet Pulse Laser (100)
Airwing
3 x Crimson Hunter Exarch, Hawkeye (176 each)
2 x Hemlock Wraithfighter, Spirit Stone (210 each)
Lord of War
Wraithknight, Scattershield, Suncannon, 2 Starcannon (386)
Total Points: 2000
Command Points: 5
Warlord Trait: Eye on Distant Events
Relic: Faolchu's Wing
Made a couple small tweaks to the list in order to swap out the Autarch for a Farseer. Will get a few games in today and see how the Wraithknight plays.
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
I'd make some changes personally (but mostly because of my collection), but i do like the concept. I'd swap the storm guardians for Avengers to ride in Falcons (don't have reapers anyway), Go suncannon knight. Swap reapers for Nightspinners. Add another warlock jetseer, and spend rest to get to 2000pts on axe wraithguard.
Got in a few more games in; 2 against Iron Warriors and 1 against Admech. The Wraithknight is a fun model, but not overly efficient in the way I built mine (Suncannon, Scattershield, 2 Starcannon). Fortune was cast on it many times and I either cast Guide on it or a Dark Reaper squad. I have not lost it in 5 games, but I also run a lot of vehicles, which draws a lot of attention away from the Wraithknight.
I don't like the 2d6 mechanic for the Suncannon. One time I roll 4 shots, another time it is 11. The inconsistency is challenging when deciding target priority as well as deciding if splitting up firing at multiple units is worth it.
I got into assault a few times and it does fairly well (I used the stomp every time). The Admech player had some type of drill transport which dealt a lot of damage to the Wraithknight, so be wary of those and just shoot it.
The Wraithknight is also quite challenging to maneuver, so getting around ruins takes more movement than I anticipated.
In the end, I won my games, but I think it has to do more with the rest of my army being efficient at destroying MEQ (the Admech player used a Bastion and had 8 of of the tank infantry models inside which I destroyed on my turn 1). This affords the list to be able to take the Wraithknight.
On a separate note, while I like the idea of the Hornet, it has not been as stellar as I would have thought. It is not bad, but I keep looking at alternative for the 100 points, such as a Vibro Cannon unit.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/22 12:21:27
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
I think GW missed an opportunity in Vigilus book with the Wraith Host detachment. Instead of a piss poor witch staff relic, they could have had the ability to make a knight a character with specific warlord traits available to it and made a suncannon relic that mitigated the 2D6 (either making it a fixed 12 or rolling 3D6 and taking highest). Oh well, maybe too much to ask for.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So I'm actually thinking about going somewhat out of left field for my custom Craftworld. It is extremely heavy wraith based (Knight, Lord, 2 hemlocks, 3x5 wraithguard). Opting for Wrath of the Dead for obvious reasons, but I'm going to go with Warding Runes for my second trait. Reason being that the army has high Toughness and good saves, but neither of those 2 attributes help vs mortal wounds which bypass the army's strength, which could strip my army of valuable wounds (it's a small number army). Now I just have to name it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/22 18:24:20
Yea i think bare bones sword and board knight is decent. ( Id take single shuri cannon so that he can fire and fade after advancing)
The heavy wraith cannons are way too expensive loadout without invuln and the sun cannon is way too swingy. If it was 4 d3 aa opposed to 2d6 i think it would make a difference.
Im goin to go way out there and say currently even if wraith cannons total was same as sun cannon knight or sword knight i'd still not take it.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Suncannon might be swingy, but you're taking it so that you get the invuln and are more active in the shooting phase. 60pts is relatively cheap for the gun.
Eldar- 4436 pts
