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 kingheff wrote:
I kept going back and forth with spinners, ignore cover made them viable but I still find they whiff too often for my liking.
The main thing in their favour is the fact that they can hide and shoot hiding stuff and that they were dirt cheap. I
still think the falcon is a better tank because it had reliable damage for basically the same cost and I can hide a squad of avengers in there.
I am unsure about the smaller board size regards our faction because our manouvrability means we can get to shoot what we want easier but we can't run away as effectively. The slower wraith units should benefit too, which is nice.

Kiting the board edge may become a thing of the past. We shall see.

I think we will soon be able to outflank with units such as Wraithguard (as well as many others). A large squad of D-Scythe Wraithguard come in from board edge, 1 CP for auto 6" advance, and even Quicken as an additional movement can put them exactly where they need to be. Be cognizant of Auspex type abilities and I think it can bring great utility to one of our more underused (and cool looking, IMO) units.

One great takeaway after listening to the Splintermind podcast, who were playtesters, stated that if you already have a large Eldar collection, you will be just fine in 9th. It will be learning how 9th is different from 8th and then can quickly adjust the army. The fact I am looking at Windriders, Wraithlords, and Wraithguard after seeing the various previews, FLG Twitch and the aforementioned podcast is a big indicator for me just how much the edition may be different.

I think pack hunting prisms might become disgusting alpha strikers. Only one needs to see the target

Could even cloud-strike one just to get LOS...

The vertical profile isn't usually the problem for hiding eldar tanks, it's the horizontal one, so the obscure rule is unlikely to provide much benefit if you were playing previously with the ITC "first floor blocks LOS" rules that almost all competitive 40k used.

This won't change much for falcons, spinners, etc based on what they've said. The first floor on ITC ruins was usually high enough to hide an eldar grav tank vertically.

It's wraithlords that are ones who really benefit from obscure in the CWE list; they were so tall previously that it was almost impossible to hide them, but now height won't matter any more, and their horizontal profile is very small. Tall, slender things are helped out more by obscure than any other model shape.

A grav tank is almost exactly 4" tall (if you don't put the antenna on it, and use the lower of the two mounting options); a wraithlord is more like 4.9". That .9" actually makes a huge difference in ITC re: what you can hide and what you can't hide.

 Argive wrote:
I think pack hunting prisms might become disgusting alpha strikers. Only one needs to see the target

Could even cloud-strike one just to get LOS...

I am not sure why, but I've not seen Fire Prisms used much outside the first year or so of 8th edition. I only own one and I think I ran it one time last year at a local tourney. I like the model and the rules. It will likely receive the blast keyword. If points are at what I would consider reasonable, I'd definitely like to use it agajjn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

yukishiro1 wrote:
The vertical profile isn't usually the problem for hiding eldar tanks, it's the horizontal one, so the obscure rule is unlikely to provide much benefit if you were playing previously with the ITC "first floor blocks LOS" rules that almost all competitive 40k used.

This won't change much for falcons, spinners, etc based on what they've said. The first floor on ITC ruins was usually high enough to hide an eldar grav tank vertically.

It's wraithlords that are ones who really benefit from obscure in the CWE list; they were so tall previously that it was almost impossible to hide them, but now height won't matter any more, and their horizontal profile is very small. Tall, slender things are helped out more by obscure than any other model shape.

A grav tank is almost exactly 4" tall (if you don't put the antenna on it, and use the lower of the two mounting options); a wraithlord is more like 4.9". That .9" actually makes a huge difference in ITC re: what you can hide and what you can't hide.

At best, I would only be able to get a single tank out of LOS at the beginning of the game (playing ITC). The mitigating factor for me was deployment type and minimizing what could shoot at my units through range. Wraithlords were finally seeing some usage based upon points efficiency. If terrain will help them more and they remain aggressively pointed, I'd love to field Wraithlords. I like the model and I've got another on one on sprues; I would like to have a reason to get it painted up.

Hey I need some advice on making a list for this weekend, I posted an Ulthewe list in the list making section, but I'm lost on synergy. I keep wanting to use custom factions from the last book, but I do want to run it as Ulthewe instead. That's my only limitation.

Well, the announcement of the new ed makes the tactical board a bit speechless.
What should we discuss here if there are no secured rules, just a framework of them.
However, Eldar has such a diverse army such that we can deal with any rule changes and still have a competitive army.

I concur, only unit that currently appears in peril is Guardians as 10 bodys plus platform leaves them open to new blast as well their usual nemesis of massed reroll dakka

but like you say we have enough good units that a new hotness will rise

I concur, only unit that currently appears in peril is Guardians as 10 bodys plus platform leaves them open to new blast as well their usual nemesis of massed reroll dakka

Well, I never found 10 Guardians be useful babysitting a larger gun.
Not sure of 20 Guardians with 2 platforms can still be a shock and awe unit when deployed by deep striking.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, the announcement of the new ed makes the tactical board a bit speechless.
What should we discuss here if there are no secured rules, just a framework of them.
However, Eldar has such a diverse army such that we can deal with any rule changes and still have a competitive army.

Ah, Eldar. Broken in every edition, but what’s hot and what’s not shifts like the wind. Time to spin the wheel again.

<shakes magic 8-ball>

I’m guessing skimmer spam and a resurgence of scat bikes.

I’m guessing skimmer spam and a resurgence of scat bikes.

Not a bad prospect. I like mobility and fire power in the first place.
Eldar had a competitive answer to each edition so far.

Very true. I played massed Wave Serpents in 5th edition. I really enjoyed the playstyle. However, I'm hoping to play more varied models. I'd like to bring out some of the newer kits such as Wraithguard and Howling Banshees and not feel like I am gimping myself.

So far looks like scatbikes, warwalkers, vypers, falcons, wraithlords and nightspinners will be better depending on points. CHE flying off and then back on again will be a pain to deal with. Possibly even the warp hunter for sitting out of sight as well.

finger crossed for Warp Hunters, but like all the other fudge world stuff itll be interesting to see if the related book is / has been tweaked for 9th

 Nevelon wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, the announcement of the new ed makes the tactical board a bit speechless.
What should we discuss here if there are no secured rules, just a framework of them.
However, Eldar has such a diverse army such that we can deal with any rule changes and still have a competitive army.

Ah, Eldar. Broken in every edition, but what’s hot and what’s not shifts like the wind. Time to spin the wheel again.

<shakes magic 8-ball>

I’m guessing skimmer spam and a resurgence of scat bikes.

To add to this, I'm guessing flyers will see a lot less play if stacking -1 to hit modifiers are really going away.

 slave.entity wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, the announcement of the new ed makes the tactical board a bit speechless.
What should we discuss here if there are no secured rules, just a framework of them.
However, Eldar has such a diverse army such that we can deal with any rule changes and still have a competitive army.

Ah, Eldar. Broken in every edition, but what’s hot and what’s not shifts like the wind. Time to spin the wheel again.

<shakes magic 8-ball>

I’m guessing skimmer spam and a resurgence of scat bikes.

To add to this, I'm guessing flyers will see a lot less play if stacking -1 to hit modifiers are really going away.

Yeah things like warp spider, shadow specters are completely pointless now :( (new FW book might give us solid rules for respecters - Not that they were terrible in 8th)

However the necron reveal could mean that the cmmand phase will change how auras work. As in one unit only at a time. I really hope that's the case so re-roll everything auras wont be so much of an issue which could mean -1 will be worth something but who knows. The warp spider is sadly much worse off by the looks of it..

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
finger crossed for Warp Hunters, but like all the other fudge world stuff itll be interesting to see if the related book is / has been tweaked for 9th

I've been looking for an excuse to finally buy some Warp Hunters and maybe a Lynx... maybe even a Scorpion eventually... But been put off by the points costs etc so far. We can but hope they get looked at in a fair way.

i think the hunters got a drop in the last CA that nudged them towards okayish, not sure about the bigger ones suspect the still suffer from that big models means big points thing idea that persists

 Argive wrote:

 slave.entity wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, the announcement of the new ed makes the tactical board a bit speechless.
What should we discuss here if there are no secured rules, just a framework of them.
However, Eldar has such a diverse army such that we can deal with any rule changes and still have a competitive army.

Ah, Eldar. Broken in every edition, but what’s hot and what’s not shifts like the wind. Time to spin the wheel again.

<shakes magic 8-ball>

I’m guessing skimmer spam and a resurgence of scat bikes.

To add to this, I'm guessing flyers will see a lot less play if stacking -1 to hit modifiers are really going away.

Yeah things like warp spider, shadow specters are completely pointless now :( (new FW book might give us solid rules for respecters - Not that they were terrible in 8th)

However the necron reveal could mean that the cmmand phase will change how auras work. As in one unit only at a time. I really hope that's the case so re-roll everything auras wont be so much of an issue which could mean -1 will be worth something but who knows. The warp spider is sadly much worse off by the looks of it..

I'm ok with capping to hit penalties if GW curtailed the massed reroll abilities. We shall see.

How do we think the changes to overwatch are going to impact us?

Makes one of the banshee’s rules a little lackluster.
Scytheguard no longer have the automatic “hands off” sign.

But it should make it easier for the skinny little elves to get in and stab things without being mowed down by bolter fire.

 Nevelon wrote:
How do we think the changes to overwatch are going to impact us?

Makes one of the banshee’s rules a little lackluster.
Scytheguard no longer have the automatic “hands off” sign.

But it should make it easier for the skinny little elves to get in and stab things without being mowed down by bolter fire.

it depends on what becomes our new hotness, and at a guess it wont be melee troops and as always we will have bullet sponge serpents if we need to get safely into fisticuffs

 Nevelon wrote:
How do we think the changes to overwatch are going to impact us?

Makes one of the banshee’s rules a little lackluster.
Scytheguard no longer have the automatic “hands off” sign.

But it should make it easier for the skinny little elves to get in and stab things without being mowed down by bolter fire.

The main shtick of banshees was to suicide charge and be able to tie up expensive and dangerous unit or two for one turn.

A bleach-boned little speed bump if you like.

I think their rules were always pretty luckluster and now with the the tanks and stuff being able to shoot in combat just makes them not have a role like at all.

 Sarigar wrote:

 Argive wrote:

 slave.entity wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, the announcement of the new ed makes the tactical board a bit speechless.
What should we discuss here if there are no secured rules, just a framework of them.
However, Eldar has such a diverse army such that we can deal with any rule changes and still have a competitive army.

Ah, Eldar. Broken in every edition, but what’s hot and what’s not shifts like the wind. Time to spin the wheel again.

<shakes magic 8-ball>

I’m guessing skimmer spam and a resurgence of scat bikes.

To add to this, I'm guessing flyers will see a lot less play if stacking -1 to hit modifiers are really going away.

Yeah things like warp spider, shadow specters are completely pointless now :( (new FW book might give us solid rules for respecters - Not that they were terrible in 8th)

However the necron reveal could mean that the cmmand phase will change how auras work. As in one unit only at a time. I really hope that's the case so re-roll everything auras wont be so much of an issue which could mean -1 will be worth something but who knows. The warp spider is sadly much worse off by the looks of it..

I'm ok with capping to hit penalties if GW curtailed the massed reroll abilities. We shall see.

For what its worth, Custodes got a defensive stratagem in the War of the Spider book that denies all re-rolls for the phase when declaring an attack on a unit. Its at least on the rulemakers radars, but unlikely to disappear from the rules any time soon.

In reality, I don't expect them to go away. I would like to see them curtailed a bit. I liked the original reroll mechanic in 8th, but it getting superseded by things like Cawl and the Chapter Master stratagem sapped some of the enjoyment of the game for me. These reroll blobs seem to be another variation of death stars from previous editions.

see a lot less play if stacking -1 to hit modifiers are really going away.

Yeah things like warp spider.... are completely pointless now :(

The warp spider is sadly much worse off by the looks of it..

Knifes straight to my heart brahs.

No -1 to hit for heavy weapons seems great. Cover seems interesting. Command point structure should help us out. Personally I always hated overwatch, so glad it's been changed. The secondaries should help us, as we can usually dictate what goes on and what we want to do.

I think it's looking good for us. I wonder what the point changes will be. If they have done it individually or just applied a generic multiplier across the board. Someone who is familiar with chaos, what we're the point increase like? % and straight number wise. If over 2k games become standard, 18cp is great.

Is this possible in 9th edition?

I have an Eldar tank of some sort that moves and shoots (getting closer to an enemy unit). After that, I can declare it charge an infantry unit (preferably one that cannot do much damage on overwatch). In the fight phase, I can then shoot again, but only at the models in engagement range. Effectively, giving me 2 opportunities to shoot in a single turn.

Can someone direct me where this is incorrect? There is a -1 penalty to hit with heavy weapons from the Big Guns Never Tire reading, but for a Wave Serpent with twin Cannons and underslung Cannon, it's shooting went from 9 to 18 shots in a turn.

 Sarigar wrote:
Is this possible in 9th edition?

I have an Eldar tank of some sort that moves and shoots (getting closer to an enemy unit). After that, I can declare it charge an infantry unit (preferably one that cannot do much damage on overwatch). In the fight phase, I can then shoot again, but only at the models in engagement range. Effectively, giving me 2 opportunities to shoot in a single turn.

Can someone direct me where this is incorrect? There is a -1 penalty to hit with heavy weapons from the Big Guns Never Tire reading, but for a Wave Serpent with twin Cannons and underslung Cannon, it's shooting went from 9 to 18 shots in a turn.

9th allow you to fire while being in engagement range of an enemy unit, not fire at it on the combat phase.

 Lord Perversor wrote:

 Sarigar wrote:
Is this possible in 9th edition?

I have an Eldar tank of some sort that moves and shoots (getting closer to an enemy unit). After that, I can declare it charge an infantry unit (preferably one that cannot do much damage on overwatch). In the fight phase, I can then shoot again, but only at the models in engagement range. Effectively, giving me 2 opportunities to shoot in a single turn.

Can someone direct me where this is incorrect? There is a -1 penalty to hit with heavy weapons from the Big Guns Never Tire reading, but for a Wave Serpent with twin Cannons and underslung Cannon, it's shooting went from 9 to 18 shots in a turn.

9th allow you to fire while being in engagement range of an enemy unit, not fire at it on the combat phase.

Thank you for the clarification ! I went back to reread the description. You are correct.

Question for speculation - In 9th ed all vehicles will be able to move and fire heavy weapons without a penalty. What do you think that will mean for Crystal Targeting Matrices?

It will have no use until we get a new codex

 Argive wrote:
It will have no use until we get a new codex

Agreed. I don't think there will be many rule updates for the codecies once 9th is released. We will end up waiting for a new codex.