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 wuestenfux wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
What are we thinking of for go-to secondaries? I'm thinking Table Quarters for most games, maybe raise the banner, and attrition for wraith heavy builds. but I'm not really sure.

Some would eventually argue that Eldar should in the first place go for the secondary and hamper the enemy to get the primaries.

It does feel like that would be the fluffier playstyle. Problem is the only secondaries that really rack up enough points to be worth trying to hinge our playstyle around are basically the ones that will get us killed due to needing to expose our models to danger.

Well, I'll go back to my Serpents with triple shuricannons or dual scatterlasers and underslung shuricannons.
Load will be 5 DAs and 5 FDs.
The lack of armor piercing weapons mounted on the Serpents will be counteracted by the FDs.
If heavily armored enemy units come close, the FDs will take care of them.

I'm going to be taking 3 units of 3 War Walkers in every game now.

This is what I'll be trying to start with. Fast deathball of triple falcons, triple vyper squads and characters head for midfield, vibros fire support from the rear. Lots of dakka to clear objectives and big units physically to move block said objectives. Some melee counter with autarch and wraiths. Fairly durable with cheap, semi tough wounds without sacrificing too much firepower.

Batallion (Bladestorm and masterful shots)

Warlock skyrunner 65 (Jinx)
Autarch skyrunner 105
Farseer 115 (Doom, Executioner) Seer of the shifting vector, Faolchu's wing

3x5 Dire avengers exarch with twin cats (Bladestorm) 210
3x3 Vypers twin cats, shuriken cannon 450

3 Falcons with starcannon, twin cats, 390



Spearhead (Expert crafters and masterful shots)

2 x Wraithseer with starcannon 260

3x3 vibro cannons 405

Total 2000

 Bosskelot wrote:
I'm going to be taking 3 units of 3 War Walkers in every game now.

Could you please elaborate a bit more.
Heavy weapons all the way?

I'm still unsure about secondary missions.

I am leaning towards the following based on how I build armies and playstyle:

First Strike
Engage on All Fronts

Something from Purge the Enemy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rbstr wrote:
I might be careful doing expensive models in units >5. It's no big deal vs. d6 and better guns but there's several d3 shot guns out there that can pack a punch and giving the freebie 3-shots means a lot more value there.

It doesn't really matter for squishy infantry, since the max loss is an additional cheap model, but when it's an additional Wraithblade or Shining Spear, you know?

Fair point. The Shining Spears could be lowered to 5. If I did that, then I could tweak something to then take 2 x 5 Wraithblades. My thoughts on the larger squad sizes is to make them more enticing to target. My Dire Avengers and Wave Serpents are what I'll be utilizing to gain primary objective points.

I suspect we'll get a full set of secondaries in chapter approved so I'm not sure what to expect, they're a bit of an odd buch at the moment.

 kingheff wrote:
This is what I'll be trying to start with. Fast deathball of triple falcons, triple vyper squads and characters head for midfield, vibros fire support from the rear. Lots of dakka to clear objectives and big units physically to move block said objectives. Some melee counter with autarch and wraiths. Fairly durable with cheap, semi tough wounds without sacrificing too much firepower.

Batallion (Bladestorm and masterful shots)

Warlock skyrunner 65 (Jinx)
Autarch skyrunner 105
Farseer 115 (Doom, Executioner) Seer of the shifting vector, Faolchu's wing

3x5 Dire avengers exarch with twin cats (Bladestorm) 210
3x3 Vypers twin cats, shuriken cannon 450

3 Falcons with starcannon, twin cats, 390



Spearhead (Expert crafters and masterful shots)

2 x Wraithseer with starcannon 260

3x3 vibro cannons 405

Total 2000

Any thoughts about having a Farseer Skyrunner? Could swap with the Warlock Skyrunner, putting the Warlock on foot. While expensive at three CP, you would have Tempest of Blades available (Assuming you pay 1 CP for the Windrider Host). The Vypers at close range with a -2 AP. I assume you meant Hail of Doom rather than Bladestorm.

Yep, should be hail of doom.
I may play around to fit in the farseer on bike. I was partially thinking about the fact that I could keep him safe in a falcon turn one but with the eliminator price hike they may not be so prevalent. I'd keep the warlock on bike, a 66% chance of exploding heads on a perils is just too big. I could run an autarch with glaive and the wing instead. With the 3 cp spent on the spearhead I was wary of spending more cp on the specialist detechment and then the 3 cp on the strat. I have had good success with the specialist detachment before but with longer range weapons, I'm not sure how effective it will be in the closer quarters of 9th though, definitely an option though.

If I can get a unit into each quarter each turn, including 2 into thier deployment zone by turn two, I will gladly 'yeet' a couple small units into thier zone to score and die. My list is designed to stagger in scorpions, hawks, and spiders for just that reason!

 kingheff wrote:
Yep, should be hail of doom.
I may play around to fit in the farseer on bike. I was partially thinking about the fact that I could keep him safe in a falcon turn one but with the eliminator price hike they may not be so prevalent. I'd keep the warlock on bike, a 66% chance of exploding heads on a perils is just too big. I could run an autarch with glaive and the wing instead. With the 3 cp spent on the spearhead I was wary of spending more cp on the specialist detechment and then the 3 cp on the strat. I have had good success with the specialist detachment before but with longer range weapons, I'm not sure how effective it will be in the closer quarters of 9th though, definitely an option though.

Completely understand regarding Eliminators. I played in a small local tourney last weekend and I was surprised that I faced so few Eliminators. I generally keep my psykers on foot Form The exact same reason. Hoping they go out of fashion in 9th.

 Sarigar wrote:

 kingheff wrote:
Yep, should be hail of doom.
I may play around to fit in the farseer on bike. I was partially thinking about the fact that I could keep him safe in a falcon turn one but with the eliminator price hike they may not be so prevalent. I'd keep the warlock on bike, a 66% chance of exploding heads on a perils is just too big. I could run an autarch with glaive and the wing instead. With the 3 cp spent on the spearhead I was wary of spending more cp on the specialist detechment and then the 3 cp on the strat. I have had good success with the specialist detachment before but with longer range weapons, I'm not sure how effective it will be in the closer quarters of 9th though, definitely an option though.

Completely understand regarding Eliminators. I played in a small local tourney last weekend and I was surprised that I faced so few Eliminators. I generally keep my psykers on foot Form The exact same reason. Hoping they go out of fashion in 9th.

Tourneys in the EU, almost impossible these days at least in Germany.

It varies from state to state here.

Goonhammer took a dive into the updated codex: https://www.goonhammer.com/9th-edition-faction-focus-craftworld-eldar/

I noticed that Illic's and Amallyn's cameleoline cloaks keep the -1 to hit. The FAQ in both cases tells us to change the 2nd sentence, and the -1 to hit is in the first sentence.

It is only the rangers cloaks that lost the -1 to hit.

So basically they always count as being in Dense Cover then?

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Goonhammer took a dive into the updated codex: https://www.goonhammer.com/9th-edition-faction-focus-craftworld-eldar/

Seems like everything got hit pretty hard, including some of our best units like CHEs and vibro cannons. It definitely feels a bit gloomy but then again, just about every other faction got hit equally hard or worse with the exception of a select few.

Interestingly the scorpion superheavy tank was indirectly buffed by remaining at 710 points while retaining the ability to fall back and shoot. Toward the end of 8th edition I was fielding it with pretty fantastic results against just about every opponent that wasn't horde. In particular it did extremely well against knights and custodes, both of which are some of the biggest winners of the 9th edition points updates. Throw fortune, guide, and spirit stones on that thing and it essentially deletes a superheavy or elite unit every turn it's alive.

I feel like this may be the edition of lowered expectations. At least at start.


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I guess I should back up my statement a bit: 9th edition, at launch, is the edition of lowered expectations. A lot of stuff that was good looks like it got a knee in the soul stones, and things that were bad got taken out behind the shed.

I'm not too mad about the latter because not even points changes where going to save the latter. The former just feels like trying to nerf the entire game equally.

Didn't expect fire prisms and night spinners to go up so much. And really sucks about troops, its not as if we were thrilled about their cost/performance ratio before.... Most point increases were as expected. I haven't looked over any other armies so can't compare.
New edition, new challenges I guess.

Prisms got an unexpected cut last time so I expect they got adjusted back on top of the general increase. Spinners got hit by the out of line of sight blast tax.
The troops increases also seem broadly in line with what other factions got.
I think the points adjustments were fairly slap dash, just a quick update before new codexes roll out.

I feel we're being forced more into the top-dog build of 8e, rather than being encouraged in new directions...

HQs, Expert crafter Warwalkers, Vipers, Falcons and season to taste with your choice of naff troops.

One big change is that Crimson Hunters (not exarchs) got off very well @ 180pts, considering they now hit on 2+.

I think that's to be expected until we get a new codex, shame about scorpions though, they were a hidden gem.
I also think it's important to remember we're pretty much just theory crafting in a vacuum until the meta adjusts to the new missions.

The increase to Prisms does make sense. Having played a few games of 9th, their ability to Linked Fire and Ignore Heavy is incredibly valuable (also Blast). Is 28 points too much? Hard to say but you shouldn't be surprised that they got an increase, they benefit a lot from the new rules.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So basically they always count as being in Dense Cover then?

Their rule for cloaks don't say that, so I would say they stack for the purpose of countering units with +1 to hit.

MasterAO wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So basically they always count as being in Dense Cover then?

Their rule for cloaks don't say that, so I would say they stack for the purpose of countering units with +1 to hit.

Fair point, I was just thinking of effect.

bit of a sidtrack that should be in the modelling sub but figured worth an ask here first

do any third parties produce Serpent turrets along the lines of the oop Forgeworld one as i really dont like the gw one far too tau

cheers

I wonder if masters of concealment be worth revisiting? With vehicles being unable to get cover it could be nice to get to a 2+ for our vehicles, especially if you want to go in heavily on a spearhead with expert crafters, for example. Imperial fists aren't looking anything like prevalent in marines now so ignore cover isn't looking as likely an obstacle.

TBH I never left. I run 3 vypers and 3 Falcons in most lists, and they love a flat 2+.

It's probably not something I'd use for the battalion since I'd expect too much close quarters fighting over objectives but for a backfield outrider or spearhead I think it's definitely got merit.

What are your thoughts on a unit of 10 wraithblades with axes/shields?

I figure they could go up and hold an objective or the center of the table. They don't shoot so they could simply perform actions.

If they literally encircle a group of psykers buffing them, those psykers could score theough psychic actions in the center of the table. They would also be in range of almost all of it.

The unit of 10 would suffer from blasts... which plays into the strategy. Keep shooting at this unit so that the rest of the army can focus elsewhere.