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Our troops can't hold ground at all, they pretty much will need to stay in transports until enemy numbers reduced. So finding the most efficient weapon platforms to inflict casualties while biding time with troops will have to do in the time being IMHO. Not somthing my current list is built around, but I do have a second Eldar force in the wings to paint..
I'm also thinking of ignoring the troops and just going wraithguard, especially wraith blades. With Wrath of the Dead and Hunters of Ancient relics, sufficiently buffed they are tough to shift.
Certainly going to take some testing, the point adjustments are unforgiving.
Our troops can't hold ground at all, they pretty much will need to stay in transports until enemy numbers reduced. So finding the most efficient weapon platforms to inflict casualties while biding time with troops will have to do in the time being IMHO.
This is usually the way to play mech Eldar.
Use Serpents, Falcons, Warwalkers, Support Batteries and whatnot to diminish the enemy ranks.
Then in the mid game when the enemy comes close the transported units are dismounted contributing to the fire power.
I'll concentrate on DA and FD. The latter being a vital part of an army as they can remove tough units rather quickly.
The only enemy army I'm a bit concerned are Primaris. They get more and more shiny new toys and with 2W basic models (Intercessors) they are rather hard to remove. The meta seems to swing more and more into the direction of Primaris. Not a good prospect of the game development.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/29 06:54:13
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
There's always strategic reserve if you don't want to spend points on transports.
Luckily for us both of ours are very good, serpent is pretty tough with good capacity, falcon is cheap with good firepower for the points.
I suspect a battalion of six prophets of flesh wrack squads would work well for a more resilient soup build with craftworlds providing the punch but I tend to prefer mono builds.
On the Dire Avengers, my personal thought is to do one unit of 10, not two of 5, in order to have some scary options for Overwatch… it's not *much*, but it's twice what a single squad would have.
And, in that vein, instead of the double-gun Exarch, to go with a melee weapon/shield combo to give the entire unit a 5++ save. It's not *much*, but for your ObSec troops, you want more DURABILITY than firepower, andhaving a bristly batch of Overwatch, and some invulnerable saves, will keep them alive longer, which is more important than killing one or two more target with the extra guns.
It's, obviously, a different way to play, but, 9th requires some brain recalibration, and "Get as man durable ObSec guys on point as possible" is one of the biggies. I'd take minimized Wave Serpents for each... shuricats not Starcannons, with a focus on surviving firepower, while letting the *other* units worry about firepower.
Those guys on points need to *live*.
Add in some wraith support, both the guard and the lords, and you get some sticky units on central objectives while the rest of the force, with high mobility and firepower, worries about blowing stuff up.
Make the objective-takers as tasteless as targets as possible, make the other units too tempting to NOT shoot, win the mental battle.
I'm tinkering with lists currently, first gane of 9th coming up this weekend. How many Psykers do we need? I can't build a list without doom, and with the new missions i sure want fortune for an objective holding unit (i'm playing around with axe-wraiths or shining spears). At this point i would have to run a second farseer for guide+mw output, then again i want protect and quicken, maybe even conceal for my central objective grabber. Warlocks are back to being trash with the new points and HQ slots come at a premium with the new detachment rules (bar one slot in a supreme command), leaving spiritseers for the RoB, but spamming 3 seems a bit much.
How do you guys set up the psychic support?
Wakshaani wrote: On the Dire Avengers, my personal thought is to do one unit of 10, not two of 5, in order to have some scary options for Overwatch… it's not *much*, but it's twice what a single squad would have.
And, in that vein, instead of the double-gun Exarch, to go with a melee weapon/shield combo to give the entire unit a 5++ save. It's not *much*, but for your ObSec troops, you want more DURABILITY than firepower, andhaving a bristly batch of Overwatch, and some invulnerable saves, will keep them alive longer, which is more important than killing one or two more target with the extra guns.
It's, obviously, a different way to play, but, 9th requires some brain recalibration, and "Get as man durable ObSec guys on point as possible" is one of the biggies. I'd take minimized Wave Serpents for each... shuricats not Starcannons, with a focus on surviving firepower, while letting the *other* units worry about firepower.
Those guys on points need to *live*.
Add in some wraith support, both the guard and the lords, and you get some sticky units on central objectives while the rest of the force, with high mobility and firepower, worries about blowing stuff up.
Make the objective-takers as tasteless as targets as possible, make the other units too tempting to NOT shoot, win the mental battle.
I'm still favouring the hiding approach to my avengers but bladestorm is pretty nice on overwatch so could be useful or you could go for the protection power for the minus to wound in melee which could be handy if you get charged.
Spoiler:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cpt. Icanus wrote: I'm tinkering with lists currently, first gane of 9th coming up this weekend. How many Psykers do we need? I can't build a list without doom, and with the new missions i sure want fortune for an objective holding unit (i'm playing around with axe-wraiths or shining spears). At this point i would have to run a second farseer for guide+mw output, then again i want protect and quicken, maybe even conceal for my central objective grabber. Warlocks are back to being trash with the new points and HQ slots come at a premium with the new detachment rules (bar one slot in a supreme command), leaving spiritseers for the RoB, but spamming 3 seems a bit much.
How do you guys set up the psychic support?
You could go farseer and two spiritseers in a battalion, farseers are too expensive for me to want a second unless I really really needed it. Guide is only useful on the spears and they're pretty accurate so personally I'd manage without, ymmv of course. Conceal can be replaced by lightening reflexes in a pinch so the three should be fine, it's also quite a lot of points for hq's so I'd personally try to leave it at that.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/29 16:10:17
You watch my 10 man scropion squads with asurmen... holding stuff with their 2+/5++! You watch..
#strikingscorpionmeta you heard it here first
I really need to get the points and figure out some builds. I'm annoyed at the though of having to buy another CA so I'm sort of waiting for battlescribe to do its thing..
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/30 00:37:04
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Argive wrote: You watch my 10 man scropion squads with asurmen... holding stuff with their 2+/5++! You watch..
#strikingscorpionmeta you heard it here first
I really need to get the points and figure out some builds.
I'm annoyed at the though of having to buy another CA so I'm sort of waiting for battlescribe to do its thing..
I will shed tears of isha if you can formulate a winning strategy with scorps. I love the models and lore so much.
Argive wrote: You watch my 10 man scropion squads with asurmen... holding stuff with their 2+/5++! You watch..
#strikingscorpionmeta you heard it here first
I really need to get the points and figure out some builds. I'm annoyed at the though of having to buy another CA so I'm sort of waiting for battlescribe to do its thing..
I will shed tears of isha if you can formulate a winning strategy with scorps. I love the models and lore so much.
Watch this space
(I only have 9 though..)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/30 01:39:52
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Having played one game of 9th, my ''vast'' experience with using Striking Scorpions has been relatively positive. Once they were firmly seated in the enemy deployment zone, they secured linebreaker points exceptionally well! Build for survival instead of damage and they can be a pain to kill off! Opt for the exarch power that gives a -1 to hit in terrain, effectively turns gives all light cover dense cover and every lil bit helps.
Goobi2 wrote: Having played one game of 9th, my ''vast'' experience with using Striking Scorpions has been relatively positive. Once they were firmly seated in the enemy deployment zone, they secured linebreaker points exceptionally well! Build for survival instead of damage and they can be a pain to kill off! Opt for the exarch power that gives a -1 to hit in terrain, effectively turns gives all light cover dense cover and every lil bit helps.
I have a wraithlord converted up as a Scorpion, may have to put him in outflank to give the scorps some additional protection.
Argive wrote: You watch my 10 man scropion squads with asurmen... holding stuff with their 2+/5++! You watch..
#strikingscorpionmeta you heard it here first
I really need to get the points and figure out some builds.
I'm annoyed at the though of having to buy another CA so I'm sort of waiting for battlescribe to do its thing..
Battle Scribe is updated for 9th edition.
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
Argive wrote: You watch my 10 man scropion squads with asurmen... holding stuff with their 2+/5++! You watch..
#strikingscorpionmeta you heard it here first
I really need to get the points and figure out some builds.
I'm annoyed at the though of having to buy another CA so I'm sort of waiting for battlescribe to do its thing..
Battle Scribe is updated for 9th edition.
Right and it has a new look.
A max. unit of Striking Scorpions with a character model bolstering their surivability can be a bad news for the enemy as it eventually disrupts enemy plans.
Suddenly the enemy has to deal with a unit in his/her own backfield.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/30 11:39:00
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Thinking maybe 2x5 scorps coming on from deepstrike and an outflanking wraithlord (only 1 CP) to capture territory in enemy lines. Mostly just going for defensive buffs.
bullyboy wrote: Thinking maybe 2x5 scorps coming on from deepstrike and an outflanking wraithlord (only 1 CP) to capture territory in enemy lines. Mostly just going for defensive buffs.
Watching some 9th bat reps on TTT as no games happening near me still.
Couple observations:
With the smaller table and terrain rules It seems DS might not be as good. Maybe T3 But I think by T2 there still to manyt hings ont he baord.
I think mobility / big movement stats and quickening etc will be our key strengths initialy. as well as point denying I.e remove from objective.
I certainly cant envisions pending a single point on a troops choice at this stage. Not with these mad points.. Maybe some banshees and scropions though as infantry and wraiths.
Argive wrote: You watch my 10 man scropion squads with asurmen... holding stuff with their 2+/5++! You watch..
#strikingscorpionmeta you heard it here first
I really need to get the points and figure out some builds.
I'm annoyed at the though of having to buy another CA so I'm sort of waiting for battlescribe to do its thing..
Battle Scribe is updated for 9th edition.
Thanks just playing around with it.
How do we fit into the supreme command detachment ?
Can we not use that detachment ?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/31 02:09:25
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Currently supreme commands can only fit units with the PRIMARCH and DAEMON PRIMARCH keywords. I'm not aware of any units with the SUPREME COMMANDER keyword.
Automatically Appended Next Post: There could be an argument to eat 2 cp and stick a patrol in for an autarch. Also i cant figure out how to get the cp refunded on battlescribe. Any advice ?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/31 04:29:30
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
So I'm considering a small army that has at its core:
1 or 2 wraithseers
Some wraithguard and/or wraithblades (axes/shields)
Wraithlords
You get the idea.
Now my current consideration is in the available traits. Mainly, whether there is enough benefit in trying Ynnari, vs just sticking to the tried and true "expert crafters + wrath of the dead".
Crafters and Wrath gets me rerolls of hits and wounds on most/all units, and it's pretty consistently useful.
However some advantages on the Ynnari side of things mainly hang on a couple things - A super hard to kill wraithseer warlord, and Word of the Phoenix being able to bring the already hard to kill Wraithblades with shields back from the dead (or just heal them).
I might be missing some stuff though. I suspect the pure craftworld list is still stronger, because soulburst is... complete useless garbage. But I'd be interested to see if anyone had any thoughts on the matter!
Niiru wrote: So I'm considering a small army that has at its core:
1 or 2 wraithseers Some wraithguard and/or wraithblades (axes/shields) Wraithlords
You get the idea.
Now my current consideration is in the available traits. Mainly, whether there is enough benefit in trying Ynnari, vs just sticking to the tried and true "expert crafters + wrath of the dead".
Crafters and Wrath gets me rerolls of hits and wounds on most/all units, and it's pretty consistently useful.
However some advantages on the Ynnari side of things mainly hang on a couple things - A super hard to kill wraithseer warlord, and Word of the Phoenix being able to bring the already hard to kill Wraithblades with shields back from the dead (or just heal them).
I might be missing some stuff though. I suspect the pure craftworld list is still stronger, because soulburst is... complete useless garbage. But I'd be interested to see if anyone had any thoughts on the matter!
Soulburst no longer excists. Until we get access to supreme command I cant see myself taking ynnari as a detachment. Currently would have to sink nearly 300pts into garbage tier ynnari troops for a battalion in order to unlock 3 HQ choices.
In 8th I was running Yvraine and 2 tooled up wraithseers as my go to. Been playing around on battle scribe and I don't think its worth it with the current points and troop costs. Our troops havent been great in 8th but paying nearly 80pts for 8 storm guardians is a joke..
Ive just started playign around on battle scribe but as things stand Its going to be really hard fitting into one detachment. So looks like starting 9+1 CP is going to be the new norm for us.
To be fair its pretty much what I used to start with in 8th but at least now I cna get get static regen.
Ynnari 2 wraithseer combo is hard to pass up. I think a ynnari battalion and a EC spearhead is going to be my first game.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/31 04:39:37
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Until we get access to supreme command I cant see myself taking ynnari as a detachment.
...
...
Ynnari 2 wraithseer combo is hard to pass up.
I think a ynnari battalion and a EC spearhead is going to be my first game.
Lol, I like how you go from "losing supreme command makes ynnari terrible/expensive", to deciding a full battalion is what you're going to play because its too hard to give up, all in one post!
2x wraithseer, and Yvraine (or the Yncarne if going nuts) is a pretty strong combo, but I don't see a battalion coming out of it... theres not really any craftworld units that benefit from ynnari, especially not in troops. Maybe a Vanguard would work, but then it'd be expensive. Losing supreme command really is a pain.
Automatically Appended Next Post: There could be an argument to eat 2 cp and stick a patrol in for an autarch. Also i cant figure out how to get the cp refunded on battlescribe. Any advice ?
You chose a Spearhead. You are unable to have CP refunded with that detachment. Only having your warlord in a Patrol or Battalion detachment refunds the CP.
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
I can see a ynarri vanguard being decent. Yvraine and the wraithseer being marching up the field with three squads of scorpions in the shadows. Give the exarchs claws and they now pop extra attacks on 5+ once strength from death is active. Possibly a couple of wraithlords if you're feeling spicy with the shield of ynnead to get two more T8 5++ monsters to go smashing up objectives. Or go spearhead and take three lords for a big blob of wraith smacking.
I still value War Walkers with shuri cannons, they're super cheap and they get battlefocus. Anything else (but shuri, pulse or starcannon) is a bit expensive and better put on wave serpents, falcons or wraithlords, imo. I never ran Vypers si i've no oppinion there, guess the same applies though.
Played a test game (solo) today vs Ravenguard with my wraith heavy list, won 92-56. Definitely going to push the wraiths heavily moving forward. My Dire Avengers died Turn 1, they're just not worth it (Granted, not in transports..my wraiths were). I think x2 scorps in deep strike might be better, or something else entirely.
List was (Vanguard)
Farseer
Spiritseer
6 Axe Blades
2x5 Wraithguard with cannons
2 serpents, triple cannon, stones
wraithlord, lance, AML, flamer
2 x 5 Dire Avengers (twin cats)
2 shadow weavers.
2 hemlocks
Custom Craftworld (Wrath of the Dead and Hunters of Ancient relics...which is awesome when your wraiths are the ones contesting objectives)
Hemlocks were golden, maxing out Pierce the Veil (so easy to be within 6" of opponent's edge and casting on a 4). Granted, my RG are notoriously lacking in AT (had 3 eradicators, but they whiffed coming from deepstrike).May have to go 2x3 eradicators.
Other secondaries were Engage on All Fronts (maxed) and Grind them Down (12pts).
Definitely sticking with wraiths for resiliency on objectives (axe guard had Fortune/Protect cast on them most of time)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/01 22:09:30
Consensus is fielding them with Starcannons? Do you bother with the shuriken cannon for the vyper?
Would you consider bright lances or missile launchers?
I run Vypers with Bright Lance and Shuricannon in expert crafters/ masters of concealment for a highly accurate 2+ save little points grabber. I like the cannon as the vyper is 100% a piece that lives and dies by its range management. It wants to be scoring you secondaries and objectives while dancing out of threat range to the best of its ability.
Speaking of vypers. Did you run them.as true msu singles or in squads of 2 or 3?
Im thinking of trying this out to see how the ynnari DAs do. I think with battle fortune and word of the phoenix the DA might be a thorn in the side of many armies.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
I'm not sure what you're going with in regards to the DA and WotP. A 5 man DA sqd is so easy to remove, there is no unit left for you to be able to return a model. It can't just resurrect the exarch by itslef, there has to be a unit left and that won't happen.
bullyboy wrote: I'm not sure what you're going with in regards to the DA and WotP. A 5 man DA sqd is so easy to remove, there is no unit left for you to be able to return a model. It can't just resurrect the exarch by itslef, there has to be a unit left and that won't happen.
A 5 man unit is also fairly easy to hide behind some 5" terrain.
Also, running 3 units of DA is not the overarching play of the list. The plan is to hide them until later turns to cap backfield objectives by which point there hopefully wont be enough firepower to remove them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/02 16:29:18
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever." 
Eldar- 4436 pts
