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kingheff wrote: I suspect they are going to legends to be honest. They don't have any HQ choices and I'm pretty sure they stopped you using the ynarri characters instead.
So unless I'm missing something I think you can only take them in auxillary detachments I'm afraid.
Per the 9th edition FW Index: Xenos errata, corsair units (Cloud Dancer Band, Reaver Band, Skyreaver Band) gain:
Corsairs: So long as your warlord is Aeldari, you can include this unit in a Patrol, Battalion, or Outrider Detachment even if that that detachment contains no HQ units. However, if you do so, this Detachment's command benefits are changed to "None".
Additionally, you can use Falcons and Venoms as transports that drop their second faction keyword and gain the Coterie keyword with the same stipulation as above.
Honestly, the biggest downside seems to be that you can't also take things like Wasps, Hornets, etc... In the same way. Which, to be fair, is pretty brutal.
It is strange the way they wrote the Corsairs. For instance, they actually put in a Death Korps of Krieg army list in the Index: AM that specified what units you could take and how to take them (by replacing keywords), but they didn't do that with Corsairs.
Here's hoping that the Corsairs are brought back in some capacity if they ever redo plastic guardians...
That's really cool, thanks for that info. Might be tempted to run my kitbashed/rogue trader models corsairs in a fun game at some point rather than as storm guardians as I have been.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/09 19:08:31
Has anyone worked out a use for howling banshees yet? I play Iybraesil, so they're kind of my faction's most iconic unit. It would be nice to find a niche for them without feeling like I'm paying a tax for the sake of fluff.
In 8th, they were pretty good at shutting down non-flying vehicles or turning off overwatch before I charged in a harder-hitting melee unit. In 9th, overwatch is less of a thing, and tanks can just gun the banshees down while in melee with them. It doesn't seem fluffy or cost-effective to use them as suicide missiles that force tanks to shoot at them for a turn.
If I send them against a hard target, they just seem to bounce off, but if I send them against a squishy target , it rarely feels like they were worth their points or their seats in the expensive wave serpent they rode in on.
I've tried buffing them with a warlock and Doom to try and turn larger units into an off-brand melee hammer. It sooort of works, but it functionally adds a ton of points to their cost, and failing either psychic power really hurts them.
Any uses for them come to mind? Maybe I can just use them to sprint towards objectives and murder cheap objective holders before instantly dying the next turn? With the way objectives are laid out in 9th edition missions, I might be able to do that without buying them a serpent.
ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
Afraid not dude, and I was running 3x5 in a few competitions at the end of 8e. They got slamdunked with the points hike and the obsolescence. You could still run them with expert crafters, giving the exarch piercing strike. That makes a squad reasonably dangerous to gravis, hqs, etc, because you essentially get 2 S7 -3 D3 attacks, rerolling one hit and wound, plus ... some chaff. That worked quite well on them before. Now they're priced fairly high, those chaff need to pull their weight and they just don't whatsoever. Sorry, fresh out of ideas.
Gotta agree with Groucho unfortunately. The only slight bonus is that with a proper 9th ed table infantry don't necessarily need transports so you could splash in a couple of squads and hide them to keep them going until late game to clear out objectives.
They are still crazily fast which is something of a bonus when it comes to getting into the opponent's deployment zone for certain secondaries I guess.
Niiru wrote: So, if I'm reading it right, Shadow Spectres now get their prism rifles for free. Meaning a unit of 3 goes from 126 points, to 81 points?
Shadow spectres at 81 points for 3... good?
Nah.. without stacking modifers they are just 1W t3 infantry without an invuln with a 16" gun priced higher than an intercessor... They will die. And die easily.
I run them as alitoic in 8th and they did really well as -2 base with option for -3/-4 with the flamer or guided the prism blaster on exarch worked really well. They seemed like what the warp spiders should be.
Their saving grace was their movement as well. They were left alone completely allowed to harass or they soaked up a huge amount of firepower providing.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
27 points per T3 wound is insanely bad. Less insanely bad than 42 points per wound, but still awful. Better to use swooping hawks or striking scorpions to fulfill that role.
slave.entity wrote: 27 points per T3 wound is insanely bad. Less insanely bad than 42 points per wound, but still awful. Better to use swooping hawks or striking scorpions to fulfill that role.
Hell, 5 Striking Scorpions with Claw and +1 to mandiblasters and expert crafters can punch through 5 intercessors. And they are 75 points...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/10 23:58:04
Sorry if I missed this elsewhere on this forum but I'm confused by the changes to "Look out sir" (cant target <10 wound character models if it is within 3 inches of a 10+ wound monster/vehicle)
If my Wraithlord (10 wounds) is guarding Eldrad, and subsequently falls below his 10 starting wounds, is Eldrad then targetable? The Faq doesn't specify.
kingheff wrote: Gotta agree with Groucho unfortunately. The only slight bonus is that with a proper 9th ed table infantry don't necessarily need transports so you could splash in a couple of squads and hide them to keep them going until late game to clear out objectives.
They are still crazily fast which is something of a bonus when it comes to getting into the opponent's deployment zone for certain secondaries I guess.
Drat. I'll probably keep using them in my casual meta for fluff's sake, but that's too bad. :\
ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
slave.entity wrote: 27 points per T3 wound is insanely bad. Less insanely bad than 42 points per wound, but still awful. Better to use swooping hawks or striking scorpions to fulfill that role.
Hell, 5 Striking Scorpions with Claw and +1 to mandiblasters and expert crafters can punch through 5 intercessors. And they are 75 points...
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
slave.entity wrote: 27 points per T3 wound is insanely bad. Less insanely bad than 42 points per wound, but still awful. Better to use swooping hawks or striking scorpions to fulfill that role.
Hell, 5 Striking Scorpions with Claw and +1 to mandiblasters and expert crafters can punch through 5 intercessors. And they are 75 points...
Can they though ?
Probably? 5 mandiblasters that do mortals on a 5+ would do about 1.67 mortal wounds on average. The exarch gets 3 attacks, misses with one, and rerolls it into a hit on a 3+. With those (let's assume) 3 hits, he'll wound on a 3+, so he'll wound twice and then probably reroll the failure into a wound for 3 wounds at ap -3, and each wound that gets through will average 2 damage. So sloppy math says the mandis and exarch attacks alone will kill most of the squad on their own, and then you've got 8 more attacks to clean up with.
EDIT: Oh. And that's without factoring in shooting.
But that math is sloppy and generous to the scorps.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/11 05:08:20
ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
slave.entity wrote: 27 points per T3 wound is insanely bad. Less insanely bad than 42 points per wound, but still awful. Better to use swooping hawks or striking scorpions to fulfill that role.
Hell, 5 Striking Scorpions with Claw and +1 to mandiblasters and expert crafters can punch through 5 intercessors. And they are 75 points...
Can they though ?
Probably? 5 mandiblasters that do mortals on a 5+ would do about 1.67 mortal wounds on average. The exarch gets 3 attacks, misses with one, and rerolls it into a hit on a 3+. With those (let's assume) 3 hits, he'll wound on a 3+, so he'll wound twice and then probably reroll the failure into a wound for 3 wounds at ap -3, and each wound that gets through will average 2 damage. So sloppy math says the mandis and exarch attacks alone will kill most of the squad on their own, and then you've got 8 more attacks to clean up with.
EDIT: Oh. And that's without factoring in shooting.
But that math is sloppy and generous to the scorps.
5 mandiblasters doing mortals on a 5+ is 1.67 mortals.
3 scorpion claw attacks = 2 hits, reroll the miss into 2.67 hits, wounding on 3+ means you get 1.78 wounds, reroll the 0.89 fails into another 0.5963 wounds for a total of 2.3763, 6+ armor saves lower that to 1.98025 unsaved wounds, average 2 (d3) damage means 3.9605 damage.
8 chainsword attacks = 5.36 hits, wounding on 4+ means 2.68 wounds, 3+ save means 0.893 unsaved wounds
So 1.67 + 3.9605 + 0.893 = 6.5235 damage.
And then shooting, assuming 4 pistols and and a shuriken catapult...
6 shots hitting on 3s = 4 hits, 4 hits means 2 wounds, 1/3rd of those wounds will be a 6+ meaning 0.67 wounds at AP-3 and 1.33 wounds at AP 0 means 0.5583 + 0.4333 = 1.002 unsaved wounds.
Oh, but then expert crafters gives us another .67 hits = 0.335 + 0.1675 = 0.5025 wounds. But I"m getting too tired to calculate how many unsaved wounds that turns into.
So if I didn't mess that up (I might have; it's late here), then it looks like EC scorpions with a claw and the 5+ mandiblaster power can do roughly 7.5255 damage plus however much more you get from those 0.5025 EC reroll shooting wounds. Probably a bit more if you're in range to swap a pistol shot for a grenade. The above is still sloppy; I rounded after a few decimal points, and I'm probably not properly accounting for the likelihood of some of the claw damage overkilling a single model, but we're looking at about 3 or 4 dead intercessors .
So you're not quite clearing them in a single turn. I wouldn't count on scorpions to reliably wipe out a squad of intercessors then, but that's not terrible for their price tag. Granted, this assumes you get 5 scorpions into melee unscathed.
ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
You might even attack Intercessors in cover for more reliable hitting. EC is a PITA in napkin statistics, though, when i'm bored enough and work is low i might just make a spreadsheet
In general though i think Scorpions are a solid pick atm. They're cheap enough, can score several secondaries (mostly engage on all fronts through deepstrike or raise banners) and pretty tanky for their price with stalker and cover (masters of concealment anyone?). A large unit (prly 9 to dodge blast) with scorpion's sting is an actual threat even when they can't fight first they'll do an average 3 MW at the start of the fight phase.
Well, in view of the battle report https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmdVCMoV130 one lesson is that one should be able to score early in the game.
The Eldar player had a 10 men unit of Wraithblade as a death star unit that was quite fearsome,
while the two units of Wraithguard approached along a flank.
My list above is quite similar, the Skyweavers could score early in the game.
The enemy will need a lot of fire power to remove them.
In the meanwhile the rest of the army will get prepared for the mid and end game.
Former moderator 40kOnline
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Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
As much as I like winters SEO his reports are more narrative as opposed to competitive. I'd be careful drawing too many conclusions from his videos.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Don't get me wrong though, a unit of ten axe blades is surprisingly mobile with quicken or with buffs to charge out of deepstrike but 400 PTS is still a massive investment and if your opponent just screens with chaff you can end up getting a pretty poor return on your big investment.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/12 17:39:27
I don't see a viable alternative to wraithblades in staying power. They're just 13* points for a t6 3+/4++ wound. Add protect and fortune, maybe masters of concealment or cover and there's no way they get shot off efficiently. The issue is the old Eldar crux, though: fail a few psychic tests or get denied and it's kinda game over. From there we have to kill the enemy's öargest threats to our ability to score. And for that we have decent options, i just dislike it as plan A.
Axe Guard are great, and can reliably get Fortune cast on them, but Protect is often harder. I am using Wrath of the Dead and Hunters of Hidden Relics since they plan to babysit objectives.
Wyldhunt wrote: Has anyone worked out a use for howling banshees yet? I play Iybraesil, so they're kind of my faction's most iconic unit. It would be nice to find a niche for them without feeling like I'm paying a tax for the sake of fluff.
In 8th, they were pretty good at shutting down non-flying vehicles or turning off overwatch before I charged in a harder-hitting melee unit. In 9th, overwatch is less of a thing, and tanks can just gun the banshees down while in melee with them. It doesn't seem fluffy or cost-effective to use them as suicide missiles that force tanks to shoot at them for a turn.
If I send them against a hard target, they just seem to bounce off, but if I send them against a squishy target , it rarely feels like they were worth their points or their seats in the expensive wave serpent they rode in on.
I've tried buffing them with a warlock and Doom to try and turn larger units into an off-brand melee hammer. It sooort of works, but it functionally adds a ton of points to their cost, and failing either psychic power really hurts them.
Any uses for them come to mind? Maybe I can just use them to sprint towards objectives and murder cheap objective holders before instantly dying the next turn? With the way objectives are laid out in 9th edition missions, I might be able to do that without buying them a serpent.
I have 2 squads of 10 in wave serpents in a ynnari list. Their stats aren't impressive I agree, but they always manage to do work. The wound rerolls from ynnari help out a lot with their strength problem. I leave them with war shout (because ynnari has to, for some reason) and that makes them stick around for a while against non-melee units. Usually vehicles have trouble clearing them in melee, cause you're turning off blast and stuff. Everyone is always surprised by how fast the move, so they manage to get past screens.
it looks like their power swords will be +1 str based on the vanguard marines data sheet. Making them str 4 is a big deal. With that they'll be viable imo.
40K Armies: Ultramarines, Tau, Ynnari, Orks, and Thousand Sons.
Eldar- 4436 pts
