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I'd be curious why they wouldn't be able to. She'd have only two hands either way.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
That helps my hobbling decision making... now I'm definitely going to chop that Canoness up to make a BR Canoness with Benificence. Sidearm for that conversion: inferno, BP, or plasma?
If you need a canoness with a 9-12" aura, it's worth whatever it costs. Sure, being stuck with a PS and PP is annoying, but it's still the best loadout available for non-bloody rose mono-canoness detachments.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/01/31 20:52:50
I'm going to run VH and my store has 3 of the LE boxes left. Probably buy all 3, sell what I don't want (don't need 3 codecii's or card packs) so it'll be nice to have the Cannoness, even if not optimal loadout legal without doing all sorts of chopping and crap.
I'm not worried about multipose models. I play Daemons, each of their troop choices has like 3 poses max as far as legs/torsos. When I'm fielding 90 plaguebearers I don't give a rats arse how much "attack of the clones" they look. Characters I take time to pose, rank and file? Can't be bothered.
jivardi wrote: I'm going to run VH and my store has 3 of the LE boxes left. Probably buy all 3, sell what I don't want (don't need 3 codecii's or card packs) so it'll be nice to have the Cannoness, even if not optimal loadout legal without doing all sorts of chopping and crap.
I'm not worried about multipose models. I play Daemons, each of their troop choices has like 3 poses max as far as legs/torsos. When I'm fielding 90 plaguebearers I don't give a rats arse how much "attack of the clones" they look. Characters I take time to pose, rank and file? Can't be bothered.
The solo kits aren't even multipose. They are multi-options. You have some head differences(assuming you don't go helmeted) and can put different weapons but posability wise zero. So all your individual kit bolter girls will be looking same.
In fact the limited edition set will help in this regard. Without it you have 10 poses for battle sisters. With limited edition 17. Not quite double but better. Especially handy if you want bolter&chainsword superiors more than 2-3.
Repressors got a buff though, they now benefit from Acts of Faith, Shield of Faith AND Sacred Rites. Still don't benefit from Order Convictions it seems, sadly. Still a good vehicle choice and still better than the Immolator.
Actually the Repressors have the <order> keyword so they do benefit from Convictions. It’s nice that my Repressors can now gain and use MDs, and Sacred Rites means all the shots from 2 stormbolters and Heavy flamer can gain from Divine Guidance.
It’s good to see them even mention the Repressor in the faq, makes me even more inclined to think they’ll include them in the next Codex as a transport choice.
That would be next fw books. Fw units don't generally transfer to gw books.
Besides don't count on new sister codex this decade
More FW units have gone GW then people remember. All the IG tank variants expect Demo were FW, Valkyrie was FW, Hydra was FW, Manticore was FW, etc... It's not beyond hope that It'll become GW at some point.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/01/31 22:36:59
Lammia wrote: Repentia, Pen. Engine/Mortifier, MM Rets and BSS Combi-Melta are the popular choices with an honorable mention to Inferno Serephim and a nod to Zephyrim
While capable, Repentia are extremely fragile and you basically need to build your list around maximizing their output for them to be worth it. I mean, I'm still going to try cause I think they'd be a useful addition... would be more useful if they weren't elite slot though. Wish they were FA or something.
Do you need to build your list around them? I've found them to be sufficient just tacked on. Though giving them their own Vanguard detachment does raise your performance significantly.
Penitent Engine / Mortifier... of the two, only the mortifier is worth taking. The Pentitent Flails are nice with their 15 attacks at S6 AP-2, but that's really more of an elite infantry murderer, not much of an anti-tank unit. Anything S7 with a 3+ save or better (which is a lot of tanks) will certainly take some damage from it, but at the same time, P.Engines and Mortifiers are actually more fragile than an armored sentinel-- making them fairly easy to take down with anti-tank fire. I mean, with their toughness and number of wounds, even concentrated heavy bolter fire will be a serious threat to these things.
I've found the 5+++ and Zealot to be worth more than what the Mortifier offers, and the buzz blades are definitely designed with Armour hunting in mind. Their damage output is probably underwhelming, but they weren't ever going to one turn anything bigger than a character.
Multi-Melta Retributors are 32 points apiece, for a total squad cost of 138 points (148 points if you're smart and give them armorium cherubs). They're hugely expensive for what you get, and I guarantee that they'll be focus-fired hard. They can sure put out some damage, with a single turn of 6 multi-melta shots with those cherubs... but, particularly if they're at half range, they'll probably be wiped out the turn afterwards unless you're extremely careful or lucky.
MM Rets certainly aren't a plug and shoot option, but it's been pointed out that there are a few options fot making the most or the points you spend
Seraphim... I mean, maybe. Twin inferno pistols are certainly really useful. But they do basically have to assault the tank they're trying to kill in order to maximize their inferno pistols. But they're definitely a good budget option, especially with meltagun dominions not as useful as they used to be.
They're definitely the Budget option, but people have been making them work for some time now and we're not making up new plays. Knowing what you're doing with a squad is most of the battle.
Zephyrim are really more of infantry destroyers than tank destroyers, even with their rerolling wounds. Rerolling a 6+ to-wound roll will certainly help.... but it's still a 6+ rolled twice. Even with an Imagifier or other +1 strength option, they're still 5+, and good luck having one of the non-jump pack units follow them close enough to give that bonus.
Zephyrim aren't tank hunters, they're tank annoyers. Being able to stop a tank from shooting and not getting shot while your tank hunters deal with other things is still a valuable strategy.
Lammia wrote: Do you need to build your list around them? I've found them to be sufficient just tacked on. Though giving them their own Vanguard detachment does raise your performance significantly.
Depends? I mean, I probably wouldn't, but I'm already playing mechanized. So I just need to find space for them in a Rhino or Immolator.
Lammia wrote: Their damage output is probably underwhelming, but they weren't ever going to one turn anything bigger than a character.
I'd consider either one to be mostly best at deleting squads.
Lammia wrote: MM Rets certainly aren't a plug and shoot option, but it's been pointed out that there are a few options fot making the most or the points you spend
Yes, but I'd not consider them for footslogger armies at all simply because even with the shoot after advancing, they're gonna get focus fired HARD before they do that much damage.
Lammia wrote: Zephyrim aren't tank hunters, they're tank annoyers. Being able to stop a tank from shooting and not getting shot while your tank hunters deal with other things is still a valuable strategy.
I mean that's not wrong. I am seriously considering some Zephyrim once their models are released.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Lammia wrote: Repentia, Pen. Engine/Mortifier, MM Rets and BSS Combi-Melta are the popular choices with an honorable mention to Inferno Serephim and a nod to Zephyrim
While capable, Repentia are extremely fragile and you basically need to build your list around maximizing their output for them to be worth it. I mean, I'm still going to try cause I think they'd be a useful addition... would be more useful if they weren't elite slot though. Wish they were FA or something.
Do you need to build your list around them? I've found them to be sufficient just tacked on. Though giving them their own Vanguard detachment does raise your performance significantly.
Penitent Engine / Mortifier... of the two, only the mortifier is worth taking. The Pentitent Flails are nice with their 15 attacks at S6 AP-2, but that's really more of an elite infantry murderer, not much of an anti-tank unit. Anything S7 with a 3+ save or better (which is a lot of tanks) will certainly take some damage from it, but at the same time, P.Engines and Mortifiers are actually more fragile than an armored sentinel-- making them fairly easy to take down with anti-tank fire. I mean, with their toughness and number of wounds, even concentrated heavy bolter fire will be a serious threat to these things.
I've found the 5+++ and Zealot to be worth more than what the Mortifier offers, and the buzz blades are definitely designed with Armour hunting in mind. Their damage output is probably underwhelming, but they weren't ever going to one turn anything bigger than a character.
Multi-Melta Retributors are 32 points apiece, for a total squad cost of 138 points (148 points if you're smart and give them armorium cherubs). They're hugely expensive for what you get, and I guarantee that they'll be focus-fired hard. They can sure put out some damage, with a single turn of 6 multi-melta shots with those cherubs... but, particularly if they're at half range, they'll probably be wiped out the turn afterwards unless you're extremely careful or lucky.
MM Rets certainly aren't a plug and shoot option, but it's been pointed out that there are a few options fot making the most or the points you spend
Seraphim... I mean, maybe. Twin inferno pistols are certainly really useful. But they do basically have to assault the tank they're trying to kill in order to maximize their inferno pistols. But they're definitely a good budget option, especially with meltagun dominions not as useful as they used to be.
They're definitely the Budget option, but people have been making them work for some time now and we're not making up new plays. Knowing what you're doing with a squad is most of the battle.
Zephyrim are really more of infantry destroyers than tank destroyers, even with their rerolling wounds. Rerolling a 6+ to-wound roll will certainly help.... but it's still a 6+ rolled twice. Even with an Imagifier or other +1 strength option, they're still 5+, and good luck having one of the non-jump pack units follow them close enough to give that bonus.
Zephyrim aren't tank hunters, they're tank annoyers. Being able to stop a tank from shooting and not getting shot while your tank hunters deal with other things is still a valuable strategy.
Stratagems make or break units, especially for us. Looking at a unit without their stratagem support does not fully represent their capabilities.
10 zephyrim with the BR strat kill a rhino or leman russ on average after shooting, and will bracket a knight. They're fine against vehicles. Against Flyers, if you can actually get them in range for S4 they'll obliterate Hemlockes and DoomScythes.
Seraphim are incredible for their price, being able to shoot 4 melta shots out of deepstrike (dodging auspex scan I might add) and having the ability to generate miracle dice in the movement phase. The short range on their pistols is irrelevant, you'll never have more than 1 unit on board at the start of the game.
Melta doms are largely out. Too many points in too easy of a target. Seraphim are a better delivery system, ASBSS squads with 3 meltas are a more efficient 'gotcha' squad and MM rets are just all around more usable, even at a premium price. And while I know you've said that you plan on going mechanized, and more power to you, the Immolator is easily the second worse unit in the book behind the geminae. It is ungodly expensive for being incredibly fragile. Footslog is pretty much how sisters play now, outside of exorcists.
Not that you can't succeed using immolators, but you'll definitely hover over the 'delete' key in every list you put them in.
Your rets getting FFed? Good. Valorous Heart rets LOVE being focus fired. Take a squad of 10 and watch an ironhands player use literally all of their anti-infantry firepower on them and kill 3 sisters. Watch an IF player tear his hair out over 3 thunderfire cannons and 3 whirlwinds failing to kill 10 models, even with ignores cover. Most common anti-infantry weapons in the game are AP-2, so they'll just bounce off the Rets. Even if they do get to the meltas, a hospitaller pays for herself bringing back 1 model.
Exorcists are actually much more fragile in practice than MM rets.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/02/01 01:04:50
Your rets getting FFed? Good. Valorous Heart rets LOVE being focus fired. Take a squad of 10 and watch an ironhands player use literally all of their anti-infantry firepower on them and kill 3 sisters. Watch an IF player tear his hair out over 3 thunderfire cannons and 3 whirlwinds failing to kill 10 models, even with ignores cover. Most common anti-infantry weapons in the game are AP-2, so they'll just bounce off the Rets. Even if they do get to the meltas, a hospitaller pays for herself bringing back 1 model.
Exorcists are actually much more fragile in practice than MM rets.
I agree.
Lately I’ve been running 3 units of VH MM Rets (and Arm Chebs) with Canoness / Imagifier / Hospitaler support in a Sanctum. With 2+/5++/6+++ and ignores up to AP-2 shots they are very hard to shift. I still find their lack of range sad-face but since most things they can’t reach are the opponents anti-tank weapons they matter little anyway (let those big guns plink at my infantry happy-face)
Your rets getting FFed? Good. Valorous Heart rets LOVE being focus fired. Take a squad of 10 and watch an ironhands player use literally all of their anti-infantry firepower on them and kill 3 sisters. Watch an IF player tear his hair out over 3 thunderfire cannons and 3 whirlwinds failing to kill 10 models, even with ignores cover. Most common anti-infantry weapons in the game are AP-2, so they'll just bounce off the Rets. Even if they do get to the meltas, a hospitaller pays for herself bringing back 1 model.
Exorcists are actually much more fragile in practice than MM rets.
I'm not convinced this is true.
And part of this is also almost exclusively because of the Space Marine meta, where we're kind of tailoring to face Space Marines. If you're going to come up against Guard, with a lot of AP0 high-efficiency anti-infantry weapons, I expect Exorcists to win out dramatically in terms of survivability, similar for Tyranids, Tau, Eldar, Orks, and basically everybody except Necrons and Space Marines.
Of course, Space Marines are dominating the meta at like 70% of all lists, so tailoring to oppose Space Marines isn't a bad idea. You're vastly more likely to come across Space Marines than any of the other factions, especially in a high-power setting.
Anyway, it takes an average of 7 Lascannon/Laser Destroyer [or 25 Illiastas Cannon/Stormcannon] hits to service an Exorcist, and an average of 54 bolt rifle [or any anti-infantry weapon] hits or 18 Illiastas Cannon/Stormcannon hits to service a Ret Squad. [Both Valorous Heart & Supported]
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/02/01 02:45:57
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
Rogerio134134 wrote: Not only are they brilliant anti tank units but they can also put down a massive rate of fire against infantry as well with the conflagration rockets.
Exorcists do not have multiple fire modes, they have two weapon options. You can equip them with only one of the two.
Rogerio134134 wrote: Not only are they brilliant anti tank units but they can also put down a massive rate of fire against infantry as well with the conflagration rockets.
Exorcists do not have multiple fire modes, they have two weapon options. You can equip them with only one of the two.
A terrible mistake, if ever there was one.
Alongside the Geminae unit being separate from Celestine and the Dominions no longer applying their effect to their transport.
Your rets getting FFed? Good. Valorous Heart rets LOVE being focus fired. Take a squad of 10 and watch an ironhands player use literally all of their anti-infantry firepower on them and kill 3 sisters. Watch an IF player tear his hair out over 3 thunderfire cannons and 3 whirlwinds failing to kill 10 models, even with ignores cover. Most common anti-infantry weapons in the game are AP-2, so they'll just bounce off the Rets. Even if they do get to the meltas, a hospitaller pays for herself bringing back 1 model.
Exorcists are actually much more fragile in practice than MM rets.
I'm not convinced this is true.
And part of this is also almost exclusively because of the Space Marine meta, where we're kind of tailoring to face Space Marines. If you're going to come up against Guard, with a lot of AP0 high-efficiency anti-infantry weapons, I expect Exorcists to win out dramatically in terms of survivability, similar for Tyranids, Tau, Eldar, Orks, and basically everybody except Necrons and Space Marines.
Of course, Space Marines are dominating the meta at like 70% of all lists, so tailoring to oppose Space Marines isn't a bad idea. You're vastly more likely to come across Space Marines than any of the other factions, especially in a high-power setting.
Anyway, it takes an average of 7 Lascannon/Laser Destroyer [or 25 Illiastas Cannon/Stormcannon] hits to service an Exorcist, and an average of 54 bolt rifle [or any anti-infantry weapon] hits or 18 Illiastas Cannon/Stormcannon hits to service a Ret Squad. [Both Valorous Heart & Supported]
Tank commander punisher main cannon, less than 3 dead.
2k tau - 8 crisis suit fires and 4 dead sister when i played.
Rogerio134134 wrote: Not only are they brilliant anti tank units but they can also put down a massive rate of fire against infantry as well with the conflagration rockets.
Exorcists do not have multiple fire modes, they have two weapon options. You can equip them with only one of the two.
A terrible mistake, if ever there was one.
Alongside the Geminae unit being separate from Celestine and the Dominions no longer applying their effect to their transport.
Would have been nice if there was a strat to swap between missiles.
Also, am I right in thinking theres not much point putting a Repentia Superior in the same rhino as a Beneficience canonness? Its not like Sisters really need to reroll charges if they're worried about making it or not.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/01 12:20:10
Rogerio134134 wrote: Not only are they brilliant anti tank units but they can also put down a massive rate of fire against infantry as well with the conflagration rockets.
Exorcists do not have multiple fire modes, they have two weapon options. You can equip them with only one of the two.
A terrible mistake, if ever there was one.
Alongside the Geminae unit being separate from Celestine and the Dominions no longer applying their effect to their transport.
Geminae are a fundamentally flawed models from a rules pov. I miss the glorious balance of Celestine and her posse's PL.
For all the issues with PL, it really worked for them
So, with this being the (as for now) final verdict on Miracle Dice, is there any reason to take Incensor cherubs? One AoF per phase and unless you have a Similacrum or are near the Triumph, you can replace one die.
Taikishi wrote: So, with this being the (as for now) final verdict on Miracle Dice, is there any reason to take Incensor cherubs? One AoF per phase and unless you have a Similacrum or are near the Triumph, you can replace one die.
Depends if you have a meltas in the squad. Only reason I could see.
Taikishi wrote: So, with this being the (as for now) final verdict on Miracle Dice, is there any reason to take Incensor cherubs? One AoF per phase and unless you have a Similacrum or are near the Triumph, you can replace one die.
Dom squad(or any) with a Simulacrum or an EC squad. It's not high on the list though
Taikishi wrote: So, with this being the (as for now) final verdict on Miracle Dice, is there any reason to take Incensor cherubs? One AoF per phase and unless you have a Similacrum or are near the Triumph, you can replace one die.
Obviously you have simulcranum if you have cherub and i have found useful. Gives me md(and in average bigger one) when short. Also handy with maelstrom card to get 2 or 5 vp easily.
Yeah. The Insensor Cherub looks to be a last add to a unit with a Simulacrum. Otherwise, it's only benefits are that it allows you to buy an enhanced Miracle Dice (your choice of two dice rolls). I like the idea Simulacrum on larger units with decent weapons, but it's still hard to justify the cost of an additional model (9-10 points) for a Miracle Dice. I'm really wishing Cherubs had their own point cost.
alextroy wrote: Yeah. The Insensor Cherub looks to be a last add to a unit with a Simulacrum. Otherwise, it's only benefits are that it allows you to buy an enhanced Miracle Dice (your choice of two dice rolls). I like the idea Simulacrum on larger units with decent weapons, but it's still hard to justify the cost of an additional model (9-10 points) for a Miracle Dice. I'm really wishing Cherubs had their own point cost.
I'm not sure what you mean - they're 5 points as additions to a unit.
Anyway, it takes an average of 7 Lascannon/Laser Destroyer [or 25 Illiastas Cannon/Stormcannon] hits to service an Exorcist, and an average of 54 bolt rifle [or any anti-infantry weapon] hits or 18 Illiastas Cannon/Stormcannon hits to service a Ret Squad. [Both Valorous Heart & Supported]
Taikishi wrote: So, with this being the (as for now) final verdict on Miracle Dice, is there any reason to take Incensor cherubs? One AoF per phase and unless you have a Similacrum or are near the Triumph, you can replace one die.
Chance to get a die from sacred rose?
It's easy to assume that people arguing an interpretation you disagree with are just looking for an advantage for themselves... But it's quite often not the case.
Taikishi wrote: So, with this being the (as for now) final verdict on Miracle Dice, is there any reason to take Incensor cherubs? One AoF per phase and unless you have a Similacrum or are near the Triumph, you can replace one die.
Chance to get a die from sacred rose?
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Gaining miracle dice, first sentence, Vengeance: A unit from your army with the act of faith ability destroys an enemy unit
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So I have been sisters since 97, I have the old celestine model and what is left of my metal army. I am happy that sisters finally getting what they deserve some New Models. That said.
The way I am building my arm and I have not put this to the test since Not all the key models are out yet. This would be a 2k+ point game.
A tactic I think would be good for a core army would be celestine and Junith. Having them 12" apart For +1 to shield of faith with two squads of celestian in the middle to take the hits for their HQ and their invuln is +4 due to celestine and junith. Behind the celestian squad is two hospitallers bringing back celestian squads. This would take for ever for tanks or any squad to kill off the core of the army. I have yet to decided how I will do the other parts of the army. Maybe Repentia squads on each side of the HQ on the out side making their invuln +5. Two Diologist in the middle as well.
This tactic is untested though. In my mind it looks good.. Maybe for a table with little scenery. I would have to see how it plays out in a city setting. Luckly the +1 to invuln says within 6" not Wholly withing like they do in AOS.
40k Army: Sisters of Battle. 'With Flamer,bolter and Melta do we purge unclean Enemies. With power armor do we turn aside their cruellest blows. With doctine and with Strategy do we win our battles. Yet it is Faith, Sisters, and faith alone that we shall conquer this sinful galaxy.' - Junith Eruita
Aos: Sylvanith, Daughters of khaine, Deepkin, Nighthaunt, Slannesh.
Taikishi wrote: So, with this being the (as for now) final verdict on Miracle Dice, is there any reason to take Incensor cherubs? One AoF per phase and unless you have a Similacrum or are near the Triumph, you can replace one die.
Chance to get a die from sacred rose?
You'd need a Simulacrum of the Triumph nearby to help.
Which is why I'm so confused as to what people are complaining about. There was already little reason to take it without a Simulacrum anyway, as they work pretty perfect together for early game MD efficiency, but are otherwise difficult to maximize on their own.
Think if it as you're giving your squads a 5 point upgrade to perform an Act for all of them turn 1 without needing a pool to do so.
It's also fun, imo
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sim-Life wrote: Running Junith forces you to build around Martyred Lady, so keep that in mind. You'd probably want large squads of sisters in this case.
Only for her reroll aura, so if you have other sources of that or don't care, she will still provide the invuln boost to everybody else. For whatever that is worth to you.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/01 18:00:10
