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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




True for other chapters, but wouldn't ultramarines not be allowed to use it as you should use the most current data-slate?
   
Made in ca
Been Around the Block




I was under the impression we would get new points, since they said they would not be updating them afterwards. It's just a copy paste from index, bummer
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

Tetsu0 wrote:
I was under the impression we would get new points, since they said they would not be updating them afterwards. It's just a copy paste from index, bummer

From Warhammer Community:

With so much awesome stuff on the way for Warhammer 40,000, you might be wondering what’s happening to some of the treasured older models that previously had rules in our Index books. While these might not have a place in our codexes any more, we know that they definitely have a place in your hearts, which is why you’ll be delighted to hear that we’ll be supporting them FOREVER with Warhammer Legends.

Your Imperial Space Marine? Rules, FOREVER. Your Chaplain on Bike? You can use him until actual Space Marine Chaplains on actual Space Marine bikes are invented in the year 30,000.** And, to top it all off, they’ll be getting points, meaning if that’s how you like to balance your games, we’ve got you covered.

Every year, we review all of the points values (for all of the units) in Warhammer 40,000. We won’t be doing this for the Warhammer Legends, though. Once we’ve assigned them their final points, they won’t be part of that ongoing balance review – and we won’t be recommending Legends units for competitive tournaments. This means that event organisers and attendees alike can guarantee everything they’re gaming with is easily available and has been subject to the same rigorous balance and playtesting process. Of course, organisers are also free to run Legends events, allowing the use of the full classic range in their games.

Nope. Nothing about updated points in either this or today's article or being a part of the process of them assigning the points.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

 Ghaz wrote:
Tetsu0 wrote:
I was under the impression we would get new points, since they said they would not be updating them afterwards. It's just a copy paste from index, bummer

From Warhammer Community:

With so much awesome stuff on the way for Warhammer 40,000, you might be wondering what’s happening to some of the treasured older models that previously had rules in our Index books. While these might not have a place in our codexes any more, we know that they definitely have a place in your hearts, which is why you’ll be delighted to hear that we’ll be supporting them FOREVER with Warhammer Legends.

Your Imperial Space Marine? Rules, FOREVER. Your Chaplain on Bike? You can use him until actual Space Marine Chaplains on actual Space Marine bikes are invented in the year 30,000.** And, to top it all off, they’ll be getting points, meaning if that’s how you like to balance your games, we’ve got you covered.

Every year, we review all of the points values (for all of the units) in Warhammer 40,000. We won’t be doing this for the Warhammer Legends, though. Once we’ve assigned them their final points, they won’t be part of that ongoing balance review – and we won’t be recommending Legends units for competitive tournaments. This means that event organisers and attendees alike can guarantee everything they’re gaming with is easily available and has been subject to the same rigorous balance and playtesting process. Of course, organisers are also free to run Legends events, allowing the use of the full classic range in their games.

Nope. Nothing about updated points in either this or today's article or being a part of the process of them assigning the points.
Twin Autocannons for Dreadnoughts did go down. They were 33ppm in the Index, but now they are 20ppm

I also think the blades on a disc of Tzeentch went from 2ppm to 0. So there are indeed changes

-

   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

I didn't say that there weren't changes, just that GW did not promise a complete update of all of the points in the Legends PDFs.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

 Ghaz wrote:
I didn't say that there weren't changes, just that GW did not promise a complete update of all of the points in the Legends PDFs.
oh, sorry, I was intending to add to what you said, not refute it. Tetsu0 said there weren't changes, you astutly pointed out that GW never promised any and I added that there are changes if you look for them.

-

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/05 01:26:24


   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





"We noticed you ork players were insistent on using the index versions of HQ units, despite the Deffkilla Wartrike which we told you to buy. So we are forced to remove those options from matched play. You wanted an invuln save? Buy a Morkanaut. You want faction support? We suggest buying this Primaris Space Marines starter box."

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/05 01:46:51


 
   
Made in ca
Been Around the Block




 Galef wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
Tetsu0 wrote:
I was under the impression we would get new points, since they said they would not be updating them afterwards. It's just a copy paste from index, bummer

From Warhammer Community:

With so much awesome stuff on the way for Warhammer 40,000, you might be wondering what’s happening to some of the treasured older models that previously had rules in our Index books. While these might not have a place in our codexes any more, we know that they definitely have a place in your hearts, which is why you’ll be delighted to hear that we’ll be supporting them FOREVER with Warhammer Legends.

Your Imperial Space Marine? Rules, FOREVER. Your Chaplain on Bike? You can use him until actual Space Marine Chaplains on actual Space Marine bikes are invented in the year 30,000.** And, to top it all off, they’ll be getting points, meaning if that’s how you like to balance your games, we’ve got you covered.

Every year, we review all of the points values (for all of the units) in Warhammer 40,000. We won’t be doing this for the Warhammer Legends, though. Once we’ve assigned them their final points, they won’t be part of that ongoing balance review – and we won’t be recommending Legends units for competitive tournaments. This means that event organisers and attendees alike can guarantee everything they’re gaming with is easily available and has been subject to the same rigorous balance and playtesting process. Of course, organisers are also free to run Legends events, allowing the use of the full classic range in their games.

Nope. Nothing about updated points in either this or today's article or being a part of the process of them assigning the points.
Twin Autocannons for Dreadnoughts did go down. They were 33ppm in the Index, but now they are 20ppm

I also think the blades on a disc of Tzeentch went from 2ppm to 0. So there are indeed changes

-


To Ghaz: Well the part how they say they will be getting points is what mislead me. These units already had points in the index.

To Galef: Oh I see, a few lucky ones actually got changes. I didn't see any from the four factions I was interested in.
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

Tetsu0 wrote:
To Ghaz: Well the part how they say they will be getting points is what mislead me. These units already had points in the index.

Legends is a replacement for the Indexes, but Legends is not the Indexes. If they didn't say that Legends would have points then they would have had numerous people asking if Legends had points.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
The New Miss Macross!





Deep Frier of Mount Doom

Lol, the Inquisition download is a single piece of wargear.

I'm a bit sad as an old time IG player that rough riders are there as I haven't kept up with the rules for the past two editions. It was a bit of a surprise for me although I should have guessed.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/05 02:37:33


 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 warboss wrote:
Lol, the Inquisition download is a single piece of wargear.
Would it have killed them to include that in the WD list?

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in jp
Dakka Veteran




Well at last I can say Kommandos have their heavy weapons and
tankbusta bombs back!

The buggy is back as well.

As an ork player I can say it is a postive move.


   
Made in us
The New Miss Macross!





Deep Frier of Mount Doom

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 warboss wrote:
Lol, the Inquisition download is a single piece of wargear.
Would it have killed them to include that in the WD list?


No, it wouldn't have. I haven't seen the WD list so can't comment on the width and breadth so hopefully only having one piece of wargear is a reflection of how complete it is. That's just wishful thinking though on my part. Deathwatch is similarly lean with just a smattering of combi-weapon options for two characters.
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob





United States

I'm missing something. Shouldn't the Big Mek entry for Ork legends include a KFF?

I have this Big Mek with KFF at home does he have rules?

I am the kinda ork that takes his own washing machine apart, puts new bearings in it, then puts it back together, and it still works. 
   
Made in us
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





Sioux Falls, SD

Rhino Primaris when down 100 pts...

Edit: Maybe. It went down from 100 pts base to 52 pts base and the twin plasma gun went from 20 pts to 22 pts. The orbital array does not have points listed in the new document, so how does that work?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/05 04:34:00


5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts 
   
Made in in
[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

So Guard lost their power mauls and axes, which kinda sucks since that's every power weapon in my army. Whatever, they count as swords now.

Maybe a sign that GW will go back to the days of power weapons are power weapons and lose the annoying minuet of minor rule differences?

Probably not, no doubt this is just because the plastic command squad only includes swords.

 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





changemod wrote:
No Necrons? We’re missing a ton of things,

A lot of the other pdfs seem really anaemic too.


What units/options from 8th ed index that aren't in codex are missing?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Galef wrote:
Twin Autocannons for Dreadnoughts did go down. They were 33ppm in the Index, but now they are 20ppm

I also think the blades on a disc of Tzeentch went from 2ppm to 0. So there are indeed changes

-

Didn't autocannons go down in ca2018 or previous faq? Might misremember as i don"t use it


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Probably not, no doubt this is just because the plastic command squad only includes swords.


Bingo.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/05 06:22:16


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




U.k

How long to the ymdc thread is full of people claiming you can’t these units in match play games and the like then?
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Well you can use them in matched play about as much as you can run 6 detachments or 6 flying hive tyrants Rulewise all 3 are as valid as others.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/05 07:23:13


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in gb
Battlefield Professional




Nottingham, England

I have faith LoTD will return, they are referenced in recent Lore and the Heresy series so, in some form, they'll be back. This release is mainly to squat the indexes out of production.
   
Made in in
[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

The Legion of the Damned will cross the primaris Rubicon mark my words. Legion of Primaris Damned, 2021

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




U.k

tneva82 wrote:
Well you can use them in matched play about as much as you can run 6 detachments or 6 flying hive tyrants Rulewise all 3 are as valid as others.


Exactly but I bet it isn’t long before they go the same way as “rule of 3”.
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




Andykp wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Well you can use them in matched play about as much as you can run 6 detachments or 6 flying hive tyrants Rulewise all 3 are as valid as others.


Exactly but I bet it isn’t long before they go the same way as “rule of 3”.


Probably a lot quicker. The rule of 3 comes with the explicit recommendation to modify and play with it as you see fit, and there are some (if rare) tournaments which tinker with those limitations, moving them up or down a bit, such as Adepticons Highlander, etc.. as recommended.

The Legends recommendation doesn't even come with the note to TOs to "don't take this as scripture, modify it to your need" (not that you'd technically need that "permission" to modify it). It'll probably be soon as standard as the "4'x6' table-size"-recommendation.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Captain Brown wrote:
Well those who still have Rough Riders will be happy.

Cheers,

CB


Why exactly would I/them be happy ? Having a beloved unit consigned to the trash bin of history with a 0 effort update that didn't touch point values as really they are too pricey at 10 pts with standard gear, and only the worlds smallest nerf, losing one inch from the out flank going from 7 inch from board edge to 6 inch instead.

I mean I guess if someone didn't have the index, it's nice they got the rules some where but not touching the points is a pretty big F U to those who still have rough riders.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote:
Well you can use them in matched play about as much as you can run 6 detachments or 6 flying hive tyrants Rulewise all 3 are as valid as others.


Yeah except one of those things is a horrid un fun game, another is using say a chaplain on a bike, or some rough riders. I've never had, and don't ever think I'll play someone who would be like " What ? Legends men on horses ?..I don't think so..that ain't legal chief ! "

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/05 08:22:01


 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Pay to win is not fun. There's plenty of good options that help you in legends. That you would need to buy at ebay over inflated price.

There's just as valid reason to ban legend as is with multiple detachments and multiple datasheets. Both which can be used in non-broken way as well if you don't just focus on worst abuse. But if you focus on worse abuse there's that for legends as well.

If you start banning one but not the other you are just trying to manipulate game for your advantage rather than trying to be fair.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I know, thank god GW banned my 10 point humans on horses, or characters on bike, now I can finally sleep at night, free from the nightmares of their pay to win power.

What are these super op abuses that have been ripping up the tournament scenes world wide exactly ?

I could point out this whole game is pay to win bro, drop the cash on OP flavor of the month faction, rock it out, wash rinse repeat, most of these Legends options are not pay to win or even hard for just about every player to make. Unless the cost of one bike, modeling a marine onto is pay to win, or guards on horses is, or you are fearing a massed charge of guard with power axes, etc, etc, etc.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/05 08:49:19


 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Ah yes focus on thos e10 point human on horses etc And I can focus on the non abusive ways to use more than 3 datasheets and detachments.

ah well. Arquing with dishonest arquer is waste of time.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Ah I see, you don't have any great abuses of these oh so scary Legends. If there is something dishonest, it's your personal thoughts that in any way the say 98% of these Legends come close to the pay to win nature of current models or armies in easy circulation today.

You give me 0 things from it that are tearing up the meta on the list, in fact two of the only ones I can even imagine that players might take often, may be the Warboss on Bike, or Big Mek with KFF and I don't see Orks ripping up and down the tournament scene with them.

The waste of time is you trying to say that somehow these units on this are at all about balance concerns.
   
Made in is
Angered Reaver Arena Champion





I am actually kinda happy they finished doing this to keep the game on an even level. Even if it means all of my autarchs, Trueborn, and my blaster archons are Legends now.

To be fair I used to play card games and am pretty used to things being phased out over time.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/05 09:28:42


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Yeah you don't spend quite so many hours modeling and painting the cards in card games. I mean people can take from this what they will won't bother my games in the slightest, the actual OP things will be the " legit "current models anyways.
   
 
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