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I'm going through a little bit of an internal struggle. I was hoping people might be able to help decide: if I play Archaon, am I going to be that guy no one wants to play with?

AoS is rife with units/armies worse than him. If you like the model get it and play.

No idea how people can keep playing busted GW games and try and make pariahs out of people who pick/play whatever is out of balance currently (it's always something)

A girl here who just started in the last couple years gets constant snide remarks about her armies (she started both Daughters and Slaanesh before GW super charged and broke them)

If you sign up to play GW games you know what you're getting stop blaming the players.

 Eldarain wrote:
AoS is rife with units/armies worse than him. If you like the model get it and play.

No idea how people can keep playing busted GW games and try and make pariahs out of people who pick/play whatever is out of balance currently (it's always something)

A girl here who just started in the last couple years gets constant snide remarks about her armies (she started both Daughters and Slaanesh before GW super charged and broke them)

If you sign up to play GW games you know what you're getting stop blaming the players.

That completely absolves TFG min-max behavior where a player brings something they know is broken against opponents they know can't fight it. The reality is that its both sides. GW creates imbalance that is severe and difficult to avoid entirely, but players can also build their armies in such a matter to exasperate or reduce that imbalance. Finally, the OP asked if he would be the guy no one wants to play with, something that is entirely separate from blame. You can not blame a player for their army being OP and at the same time not want to play against it. Some people may be unable to separate that (like in your example) in which case it is those players' fault for emotional immaturity.

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
I'm going through a little bit of an internal struggle. I was hoping people might be able to help decide: if I play Archaon, am I going to be that guy no one wants to play with?

What is your local meta? What armies are you up against? Also, from initial previews Archaeon seems to be priced assuming he is taken in the Everchosen legion, where is is notably stronger. By taking one of the other sub-factions you can immediately tone-back an Archaeon list without needing to change any of the models.

But to give a straight answer to your question (granted I do not know the full context) I would say no, it will not be a game-breaking issue. Archaeon is strong as hell, but he's also got the point cost to go with it.

I play against a fairly wide variety. Tzeentch, Fyreslayers, Daughters of Khaine, Beasts of Chaos, Sylvanerh, Ogres (whichever used Big Waaagh), Stormcasts, Slaanesh...

All of those armies have tools they can use to deal with Archaeon (perhaps not easily, but that's the point), I'm pretty sure you'll have little if any issues.

Is that true with the new book? Genuinely asking, I haven't looked at it.

Nope you will not. This even includes the new book, he is good but not 1/2 your army good. I feel spamming 3 DP's, Chaos lord, a sorcerer, and loads of Marauders are going to be worst than him with your 3 battalion and then a couple other toys.

A lot of AoS armies have a "really big and scary" character model. Typically they are very powerful, but they also cost a lot of points, up to almost half of a 2K army many times. So whilst they are powerful they are not out of the ordinary. Furthermore they cost a lot and can come with their own limitations - for example that's a lot of points in one position on the board that might limit your ability to exert control over other regions etc...


Plus the game is built with them in mind so there are a good few counter measures for most armies to tackle them.



So by all means get the awesome model and enjoy using him!
You might get some who are a bit worried about a big model like that, but they might be less skilled/experienced players. So at the local level you might find one or two get worried or appear to deal worse with them, but they will typically have issues with other models too and its up to you to decide if you want to play them or tailor your lists to be more fun for both of you in such fights. Or heck start helping and teach them to play better if they wish to learn.

 auticus wrote:
Is that true with the new book? Genuinely asking, I haven't looked at it.

I am going off (reasonably detailed) previews, but it seems that Archaeon is not at all OP given the point cost verses his warscroll. If anything he may be underpowered at 2k by virtue of 'Nagash syndrome' where there aren't enough points left to bring an army to support him. IMO I like that, demigod-tier models should really come into their own at 2500 anyways.

That said, he receives a number of buffs when taken as part of the Everchosen sub-faction, making him definitely worth his cost, by my initial impression at least. For players conscious of other people's fun (a shockingly rare find, I know), this creates a convenient 'switch' for amping his potency up or down.

I can tell you from personal experience that a lot of people will see the model and be apprehensive, but if you can actually get them to play the match, they'll see pretty quickly that having so much of your points budget invested in a single model really hampers your strategy. He's a fun model to use, and he's powerful, but he's not broken.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 auticus wrote:
Is that true with the new book? Genuinely asking, I haven't looked at it.

I am going off (reasonably detailed) previews, but it seems that Archaeon is not at all OP given the point cost verses his warscroll. If anything he may be underpowered at 2k by virtue of 'Nagash syndrome' where there aren't enough points left to bring an army to support him. IMO I like that, demigod-tier models should really come into their own at 2500 anyways.

That said, he receives a number of buffs when taken as part of the Everchosen sub-faction, making him definitely worth his cost, by my initial impression at least. For players conscious of other people's fun (a shockingly rare find, I know), this creates a convenient 'switch' for amping his potency up or down.

I have no issues with models being very powerful so long as they are pointed somewhat correctly. Its when a model that should cost 500 points costs 225 points or something that I start getting highly annoyed (and you see that model all the time for obvious reasons)

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
I'm going through a little bit of an internal struggle. I was hoping people might be able to help decide: if I play Archaon, am I going to be that guy no one wants to play with?

If you'd be that guy with Archaon you're likely already that guy.

ccs wrote:

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
I'm going through a little bit of an internal struggle. I was hoping people might be able to help decide: if I play Archaon, am I going to be that guy no one wants to play with?

If you'd be that guy with Archaon you're likely already that guy.

I don't follow

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:

ccs wrote:

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
I'm going through a little bit of an internal struggle. I was hoping people might be able to help decide: if I play Archaon, am I going to be that guy no one wants to play with?

If you'd be that guy with Archaon you're likely already that guy.

I don't follow

"That Guy" is a title typically awarded to:

1) Cheaters

2) Abusers - eg picking on newbies all the time whilst using "power" lists whilst fully knowing that they are doing both - ergo seeking really easy wins. *

3) Has generally bad sportsman qualities - ergo is ungracious in victory, is rude and insulting in losing; is generally not fun to play against.



It's far more than just taking good models or good combinations of models or playing well. It's more about your attitude and how you play rather than what you play with.


*Note we've all played someone much worse than us and won, that isn't a problem. The problem is when a person repeatedly picks on that kind of player to play against and refuses to use any kind of handicap or to modify their lists to account for the skill difference. As I noted earlier its basically seeking really easy wins.

Archeon is fine. He is much stronger than he was previously, and his legion is pretty good.

He is no worse than what a lot of other armies can pack, do not feel bad at all for playing him.

There are only a few armies that will struggle more than others, but these armies already have pretty major issues.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 auticus wrote:
Is that true with the new book? Genuinely asking, I haven't looked at it.

I am going off (reasonably detailed) previews, but it seems that Archaeon is not at all OP given the point cost verses his warscroll. If anything he may be underpowered at 2k by virtue of 'Nagash syndrome' where there aren't enough points left to bring an army to support him. IMO I like that, demigod-tier models should really come into their own at 2500 anyways.

That said, he receives a number of buffs when taken as part of the Everchosen sub-faction, making him definitely worth his cost, by my initial impression at least. For players conscious of other people's fun (a shockingly rare find, I know), this creates a convenient 'switch' for amping his potency up or down.

This is my initial assessment of him as well. Archaon is already almost half your army if you are playing 2,000 points. Perhaps more than half if you play less points (1500-1750). Even though he is in the combined Everchosen and Slaves to Darkness faction, a good chunk of S2D units went up 20% in points. Even Varanguard went up in points I believe. Additionally, I think Slaves to Darkness is going to be a faction that almost needs one Leader per one unit kind of army which also gets really expensive really fast. So, Archaon is likely to be leading all that much if he is included.

I think an Archaon based Slaves to Darkness army might bring some pain (though I have my doubt that S2D can bring that much pain even with the new tome) in a kill points game. However, most of the missions in the gaming rule book appear to be objective based. Many with at least 6 objectives. I think a good number of Archaon armies are going to have a hard time holding many objectives while beating up their enemies.

Finally, I am not entirely sure Archaon is going to be as scary as his model and points cost would lead people to believe. Sure, he is strong, but I have my doubts that the points spent can't make something more powerful and nearly as obvious about that power.

The chatter mill i'm hearing never includes archaon and instead goes the tri-demon prince spam route for exactly the reason you have given.

However the chatter mill is also disappointed that they will likely not be keeping up with the upper deck armies and that they are as I was suspecting, a middle tier for fun book first and foremost.

I say that explicitly stating that I have not read the book and cannot comment on the accuracy of the comment, only what chatter i listen to and read throughout the day.

 auticus wrote:
The chatter mill i'm hearing never includes archaon and instead goes the tri-demon prince spam route for exactly the reason you have given.

However the chatter mill is also disappointed that they will likely not be keeping up with the upper deck armies and that they are as I was suspecting, a middle tier for fun book first and foremost.

I say that explicitly stating that I have not read the book and cannot comment on the accuracy of the comment, only what chatter i listen to and read throughout the day.

Yeah, after looking at some of the updated unit cards and point costs, StD will not be a powerhouse in any respect. Still, if I was in AoS or 40K to win, I would've quit long ago. From what everyone has said here, I'm getting the feeling that people won't be that salty about playing Archaon. To be fair, they weren't that angry about me fielding a Chaos War Mammoth so this probably isn't going to be much worse.

I think its a clear Rock, paper, Scissor army, it wont handle some armies but will for others.

When you can have chaos warriors with re-rolling saves and a 5+++ with a 6+++, teleporting +8" charging Marauders, lots of DP's etc.. there are times its going to be solid, then you see Slaanesh or MW bomb DoT/CoS and its not very good, but against FeC, IDK it'll be fine. Played right against a shooting Skaven and SCE wont be able to deal enough damage fast enough as well.

Sadly Archaon might not be in many of those good lists, so i don't feel he is amazing. I still think he is good, but not game breaking good, just solid for his points.

Edit: Tho i only looked over the book a little bit, my assumptions could be off after more reading.

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:

 auticus wrote:
The chatter mill i'm hearing never includes archaon and instead goes the tri-demon prince spam route for exactly the reason you have given.

However the chatter mill is also disappointed that they will likely not be keeping up with the upper deck armies and that they are as I was suspecting, a middle tier for fun book first and foremost.

I say that explicitly stating that I have not read the book and cannot comment on the accuracy of the comment, only what chatter i listen to and read throughout the day.

Yeah, after looking at some of the updated unit cards and point costs, StD will not be a powerhouse in any respect. Still, if I was in AoS or 40K to win, I would've quit long ago. From what everyone has said here, I'm getting the feeling that people won't be that salty about playing Archaon. To be fair, they weren't that angry about me fielding a Chaos War Mammoth so this probably isn't going to be much worse.

You guys are missing what the real problem is going to be: when mono-god armies get their hands on all these units.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:

 auticus wrote:
The chatter mill i'm hearing never includes archaon and instead goes the tri-demon prince spam route for exactly the reason you have given.

However the chatter mill is also disappointed that they will likely not be keeping up with the upper deck armies and that they are as I was suspecting, a middle tier for fun book first and foremost.

I say that explicitly stating that I have not read the book and cannot comment on the accuracy of the comment, only what chatter i listen to and read throughout the day.

Yeah, after looking at some of the updated unit cards and point costs, StD will not be a powerhouse in any respect. Still, if I was in AoS or 40K to win, I would've quit long ago. From what everyone has said here, I'm getting the feeling that people won't be that salty about playing Archaon. To be fair, they weren't that angry about me fielding a Chaos War Mammoth so this probably isn't going to be much worse.

You guys are missing what the real problem is going to be: when mono-god armies get their hands on all these units.

Which might change really soon, they made almost all the rules for StD only effect StD, and some are "Mortal only". Looking for support for my BoC i can no longer use them to help my army actually. When DoT and MoN gets updated this will most likely be the same. For now tho yeah it works with mono-god factions.

Also more importantly, are some of the units going to be updated for the other armies? Like DP's, Soulgrinders, etc.. if they get updated for the other books, thats a major change. Imagine the new DP's in slaanesh!

Uh, yeah, that's my point. Slaanesh can use the new DP. All the mono-god factions can use the new DP, and the buffed units, all they need is the right keyword. It isn't a big issue that spells or command abilities only affect Slaves to Darkness, because those units can be in mono-god allegiance too.

For example, a Nurgle army could take a sorcerer and unit of marauders, use the sorcerer to give them re-rolls to hits, wounds, and saves. Then thanks to the feculent gnarlmaw and a movement buff from a GUO those marauders run 15" before charging their 9" average. Could cast blades of putrefaction on them too, then courtesy of their +1 to hit every 5+ attack causes a MW.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Uh, yeah, that's my point. Slaanesh can use the new DP. All the mono-god factions can use the new DP, and the buffed units, all they need is the right keyword. It isn't a big issue that spells or command abilities only affect Slaves to Darkness, because those units can be in mono-god allegiance too.

For example, a Nurgle army could take a sorcerer and unit of marauders, use the sorcerer to give them re-rolls to hits, wounds, and saves. Then thanks to the feculent gnarlmaw and a movement buff from a GUO those marauders run 15" before charging their 9" average. Could cast blades of putrefaction on them too, then courtesy of their +1 to hit every 5+ attack causes a MW.

Yes, but i was talking more so in an Archoan StD army, b.c he was asking moreso about that. You can ally in some units that effects your units yes, but i'm saying not all the StD buffs will effect allied units.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Uh, yeah, that's my point. Slaanesh can use the new DP. All the mono-god factions can use the new DP, and the buffed units, all they need is the right keyword. It isn't a big issue that spells or command abilities only affect Slaves to Darkness, because those units can be in mono-god allegiance too.

For example, a Nurgle army could take a sorcerer and unit of marauders, use the sorcerer to give them re-rolls to hits, wounds, and saves. Then thanks to the feculent gnarlmaw and a movement buff from a GUO those marauders run 15" before charging their 9" average. Could cast blades of putrefaction on them too, then courtesy of their +1 to hit every 5+ attack causes a MW.

Yes, but i was talking more so in an Archoan StD army, b.c he was asking moreso about that. You can ally in some units that effects your units yes, but i'm saying not all the StD buffs will effect allied units.

Ah, you were responding in that respect. Apologies, I thought you were referencing the same concept I was.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Uh, yeah, that's my point. Slaanesh can use the new DP. All the mono-god factions can use the new DP, and the buffed units, all they need is the right keyword. It isn't a big issue that spells or command abilities only affect Slaves to Darkness, because those units can be in mono-god allegiance too.

For example, a Nurgle army could take a sorcerer and unit of marauders, use the sorcerer to give them re-rolls to hits, wounds, and saves. Then thanks to the feculent gnarlmaw and a movement buff from a GUO those marauders run 15" before charging their 9" average. Could cast blades of putrefaction on them too, then courtesy of their +1 to hit every 5+ attack causes a MW.

Yes, but i was talking more so in an Archoan StD army, b.c he was asking moreso about that. You can ally in some units that effects your units yes, but i'm saying not all the StD buffs will effect allied units.

Ah, you were responding in that respect. Apologies, I thought you were referencing the same concept I was.

Ah ok, yeah, np!