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 Overread wrote:
Having been waiting for an order to leave Poland for over 2 weeks I wonder if the issue isn't GW but Polish customs and imports delaying things.

GW can't delay their entire release schedule for a country that lags behind others.


As for making AoS popular - remember - gamer populations are not static. New people come in all the time. So if the previous players only want Old World fantasy (which means they'd still be buying a good chunk of Gw's current AoS models as they are old world); there's nothing to stop the store getting new people in to play different games.

well it adds time, because no company in poland is going to send of one or two items to one person, they all send stuff bulk to the post, as it costs them less. But stuff incoming from UK is late sometimes, by 2-3 months. Or we get only part of the stuff that was ordered. Or we have something people are hyped about, but instead of the 3-4 boxs that were ordered we get 1, or we get non of the boxs, but we get cards and dice for the game GW did not send us. That AoS necromunda game ended like that here. GW send a few stores in my region of Poland, dice and other stuff, but non of the core boxs with the actual rules. And it isn't even something new. Same happened with castellans and the IK book, with ordering more then one riptide. And to top it all of GW made all stores in Poland sign an agreement that they wouldn't buy their stuff from suppliers in germany or any other place, they have to order it directly from GW.

I'm genuinely enjoying how the lag time from GW Prime to Poland is apparently increasing by the post in this thread.

I'd also really like to know how a self described teenager is so far in the loop when it comes to confidential business details of so many different (and apparently non-related) retailers.

/thread

But I guess that isn't as fun as complaining about everything.

That is mostly because the store owner rants about it all the time, it is practicaly the only thing he talks about with the old players.

Plus it depends on the stuff. I don't think we ever had a month where nothing would come from GW that was ordered. But at the same time, I can't remember one time when there wasn't something missing. Sometimes stuff is missing from the order for more then one shipment. As I said we got the dice, and bonus stuff for the AoS necromunda on time, they just didn't send the store the core set with the rules to play it.

Knight castellan were send to our store for like 3 months, to a point where when they finaly did arrive, most of the people that wanted to buy them asap already ordered them online. so there were left over ones.

The CA from last year, came on time, but we got like 4 book for 23 or 24 people playing regularly at that time. It was the only time when the store owner okeyed, the use of an army without owning physial rules. Second time it happened was when GW put the assasin rules and stratagems in a WD, and we get 4 WD at our store, out of which 2 go to non players.


ah and on a more personal level, this was explained to me, when I wanted to order stuff for my GK, as with the new CA my army is no longer anywhere close to 2000pts. The store owner would have to order a ton of stuff to order GK stuff, or waste order slots for special stuff just to order stuff for me, but he would rather use that to order stuff that he knows will sell 100% of time. And that part I did not fully understand, all I know is that stuff GW sells us is put in to separate cathegories, and while you can order limitless numbers of certain stuff, other stuff you can only order if you order X in cash of other stuff, often very specific and that doesn't sell around here very often. Lucky for me, they found a box of 5 strikes in the back of the store for me, and it now waits for me to save up money to buy it.

To those saying that this is just the standard stock, does 18 painting handles not seem too many to you?

I don't know, that sort of thing sounds like GW trying to offload products that aren't selling well, rather than being part of any 'standard collection' for FLGS and similar shops.

At the same time, it seems like it would have been far more sensible for the store to be far more specific about what it actually wanted. Even if it didn't know exactly what kits it wanted, it could have, for example, requesting no AoS kits due to no demand for such. Or requesting playable models over terrain. Or requested that the majority of kits were from armies X, Y and Z (whatever people are already known to play).

When you just ask for 'some 40k stuff' with no qualifiers, you're just asking for a bad time.

Dudeface wrote:

Novel idea, crack open a sigmar start box, get the regulars to paint it up, use it as a demo kit and see if anyone wants to start collecting sigmar? Sure nobody plays it now but they might once they experience it.

I think experiencing Age of Sigmar is the whole reason people don't play it.

 vipoid wrote:
To those saying that this is just the standard stock, does 18 painting handles not seem too many to you?

I don't know, that sort of thing sounds like GW trying to offload products that aren't selling well, rather than being part of any 'standard collection' for FLGS and similar shops.

At the same time, it seems like it would have been far more sensible for the store to be far more specific about what it actually wanted. Even if it didn't know exactly what kits it wanted, it could have, for example, requesting no AoS kits due to no demand for such. Or requesting playable models over terrain. Or requested that the majority of kits were from armies X, Y and Z (whatever people are already known to play).

When you just ask for 'some 40k stuff' with no qualifiers, you're just asking for a bad time.

What you're missing is that some of this "stock" is likely intended for the store to be able to have demo setups.
What you're, additionally, missing is that likely this 3rd party store did exactly what it says on the tin for the title of the thread:
Opted to become a partner, rather than just going through a 3rd party distributor.

My understanding is that GW has certain items that have to get ordered for a shop to retain their discounts. They can't just order 40k stuff and be done with it.

Dudeface wrote:

Novel idea, crack open a sigmar start box, get the regulars to paint it up, use it as a demo kit and see if anyone wants to start collecting sigmar? Sure nobody plays it now but they might once they experience it.

I think experiencing Age of Sigmar is the whole reason people don't play it.

Then they played it wrong.

PS:
18 Painting Handles, if anything sounds low. Do you know how fast those things sold when they first showed up? How often they were out of stock?

Anecdotal evidence here, but my local GW would post up on their FB page when a restock shipment came in and they'd be gone within an hour or two.

Blastaar wrote:

123ply wrote:
I have NEVER heard of anyone not liking Sector Mechanicus, which -newsflash - does not have to be a forgeworld

No, they don't have to represent a forge world, but the architecture is clearly human.

So is the basilicum etc mentioned. There's very little non-human terrain. And hills etc are not feasible on useful size in plastic. You need inches tall and unless it's huge it's steep...like a ruin


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Morkphoiz wrote:
I honestly dont understand how some small local games store thinks it is a good Idea to offer GW stuff outside of maybe paint.

The established online retailers will always offer a larger range while being substantially cheaper. I'd never go to a Game Store to browse for stuff I want because they most probably wont have it anyways. I also never bought Something I didnt plan on buying beforehand. I suppose the majority of Players acts like this because they play a specific army and want specific units to go with that Army.

If you're not running a well known and established Store with a good online shop you'll always fail with that kind of stuff nowadays. Local Game Stores tend not to live too long because of that. I dont get why you convinced that poor store owner to do that. It was bound to go wrong from the beginning.

Well seeing local scene here kind of depends on store people do buy there. No buying, no store selling, no store to play at. Cheaper models are less useful when there's no place to play. Play at concrete street outside? Cold in winter!

@Vipoid. Panting handles sell quite well (though for the life of me I cannot work out why. Terrible things that are detrimental to painting IME). They go like gak off a shovel whenever our FLGS gets them in.

 Grimtuff wrote:
@Vipoid. Panting handles sell quite well (though for the life of me I cannot work out why. Terrible things that are detrimental to painting IME). They go like gak off a shovel whenever our FLGS gets them in.

Oh fair enough. They always seemed like something of a niche product to me but it seems they're more popular than I realised.

You're not supposed use the handle to paint. Maybe that's why your experience is bad.

I have 6 of the painting handles myself. My club has 4 of them and i have seen some of my friends have a few. They are really practical when I try to paint to a good standard. When assembly line painting 30+ models at a time I dont bother but for any model I spend over 1h on I love them. Usually got cramps in my hand after a few hours but just this sunday I spent 7h painting a Sanguinary Priest without feeling fatigue in my left hand.

I have a few friends using old paint bottlels with blue tack instead but I have very large hands so something bigger fits me better.

I can definetly see the painting handles sell well. Not something necessary but very convinient

Morkphoiz wrote:
I honestly dont understand how some small local games store thinks it is a good Idea to offer GW stuff outside of maybe paint.

The established online retailers will always offer a larger range while being substantially cheaper. I'd never go to a Game Store to browse for stuff I want because they most probably wont have it anyways. I also never bought Something I didnt plan on buying beforehand. I suppose the majority of Players acts like this because they play a specific army and want specific units to go with that Army.

If you're not running a well known and established Store with a good online shop you'll always fail with that kind of stuff nowadays. Local Game Stores tend not to live too long because of that. I dont get why you convinced that poor store owner to do that. It was bound to go wrong from the beginning.

I specifically want to address that bold part because even though my LGS usually doesn't have what I want in stock and I seldom buy 40k stuff on impulse, I still consistently order my 40k products through my LGS because they also provide gaming space.

The store has basically made the decision that the money they'd make on table-fees wouldn't cover what they'd lose in sales because we have options on where to game, and a brick-and-mortar store lives and dies on foot traffic. The store is betting that people who game there will also buy product there. If that doesn't happen then the gaming space isn't worth providing. It's the same principle that a bar or a coffee house operates on; people who just want the alchohol/caffeine go to a liquor store or a gas station, people go to the bar/coffee house for "other reasons" and the coffee/alchohol/food is ancillary.

 Grimtuff wrote:
@Vipoid. Panting handles sell quite well (though for the life of me I cannot work out why. Terrible things that are detrimental to painting IME). They go like gak off a shovel whenever our FLGS gets them in.

Didn't use to have them, then got one and tried while painting sister of battle. Loving it. Only issue is it's bit of annoyance to swap models and as I'm doing lots of short stages...Ah well. At least GW has discount bundle for them so now I have 6 so can paint 6 at a time without swapping models. 6 is good number for me anyway as I'm trying to do more of quality, less of mass speed painting.

The Newman wrote:


The store has basically made the decision that the money they'd make on table-fees wouldn't cover what they'd lose in sales because we have options on where to game, and a brick-and-mortar store lives and dies on foot traffic. The store is betting that people who game there will also buy product there. If that doesn't happen then the gaming space isn't worth providing. It's the same principle that a bar or a coffee house operates on; people who just want the alchohol/caffeine go to a liquor store or a gas station, people go to the bar/coffee house for "other reasons" and the coffee/alchohol/food is ancillary.

Yep. If you just want alcohol any food store here provides cheaper than bar. Yet people go to bar and buy alcohol...Go figure.

LoftyS wrote:
... is the garbage putrescent nobody-cares Sector Mechanicus BS...

LoftyS wrote:
The hatred for the sector mechanicus stuff is pretty universal. They purely sent it because it's not selling.

The hell?

LoftyS wrote:
Tell me more of how amazing it is to have your battles limited to like 50 planets in the imperium.

Wait... you think the Sector Mechanicus stuff = Forge World, and therefore whenever it's used it means the battle is taking place on a Forge World? You can't be serious?

In terms of what was received, and how GW stock manages its own stores. Or at least did when I last worked for them back in 2010.

Essentially, it’s all automated. Managers don’t have control over what their stock levels are. It’s determined centrally, and automatically replenished as stuff sells through.

If there’s an uptick in sales, sustained over a period, then the stock allocation also increases.

Yes, this can lead to some items being out of stock if unexpectedly popular in a given store. But that’s why they have the in-store order point, and one of various reasons shipping to store is free.

Given GW has, erm....I dunno how many hundred stores worldwide, plus ordering details for other FLGS, that data is very likely used to compile new customer starter sets. Stuff they know is popular, and what might help create further future sales - for GW, and the FLGS.

Consider it along the lines of their beginner paint and modelling kits. They may not be exactly what every single customer needs, especially once you’re under way in the hobby. But for beginners, they give a good selection of necessities.

For Third Party FLGS- GW can be a pain to work with. This isn't a new problem. You really have to get a bit... crafty. There's ways to move product, and GW doesn't like most of them. For example, they do not want you marking anything down more than 15%... so, that Finecast model can sit there until the cardboard rots.

"Make them want to buy it" is the GW mentality.

About 3 years ago here, before I worked at the FLGS.... Age of Sigmar was less popular than dead baby jokes in the maternity ward. And they kept shoving it at the FLGS, and it wouldn't move. It just constantly kept coming, and very little of it sold- the only exceptions were the Old World stuff that hoarders would buy and try to sell for a markup on eBay.

The owner kept telling them (through the distribution center) that AoS wasn't popular, and people weren't interested here. The GW mentality, at that time, was "make it popular, then". They advised him to set up displays and demo games and all that- which he did, and people walked right past it and went to 40k. And at the time, if I'm not mistaken, Many people considered AOS only slightly more welcome than Westboro Baptist Church.

And with 40k, it was still a pain. Armies that didn't sell, new armies- always overstocked. Genestealer Cults were one I remember being over-abundant on the shelves. The store owner knew people, he knew the armies they liked, and most people bought stuff for the armies they played- didn't matter.

The GW mentality at the time, was: "With the right motivation and enthusiasm, a player can be convinced to invest hundreds, perhaps thousands of dollars at once into a brand new army he isn't familiar with... and do it all over again in a couple of months!

That's the kind of mentality you see with terrible Army recruiting Commanders that have absolutely lost touch with reality, and expect Army Recruiters to be able to enlist every single qualified kid he talks to (during the bloodiest fighting in one of the most unpopular wars in our history), if the recruiter would just apply the fundamentals of recruiting and do it right!

Fortunately, it seems like GW changed their approach,or at least loosened up. Because before that, dealing with GW was like playing Russian Roulette with your business.

That's the kind of mentality you see with terrible Army recruiting Commanders that have absolutely lost touch with reality, and expect Army Recruiters to be able to enlist every single qualified kid he talks to (during the bloodiest fighting in one of the most unpopular wars in our history), if the recruiter would just apply the fundamentals of recruiting and do it right!

That's just middle management in most sectors TBH. Probably have little experience doing the job, desperate to have something to point at to justify their tenuous existence within the heirarchy.

I still feel a warm glow from the time that they restructured the management at an old employer and took my immediate superior from a mobile role moving from branch to branch and actually handed them a store to manage of their own. My immediate superior was an utter donkey-cave who always acted like the gak whenever he was in my store, I took great delight when he took charge of his own store and utterly failed to match my own team's performance in any conceivable metric.

"Go on, Steve, tell me again all the things I should be doing differently so I can be as good as you!

That and sadly a lot of people get promoted into middle management positions, but not one actually trains them nor gives them resources to work effectively in that position. So they can wind up loading their heads with loads of random theories that they find and latch onto in an attempt to justify and protect their position.

Inexperience doesn't help of course and can lead them down some very odd pathways.


Heck I'm convinced that part of GW's old tactic with AoS was attempting to force their control over the market and tell the market what "they want" rather than reacting to actual market feedback. It's a tactic that works for some markets (eg many technology markets - heck look at how many apps and default programs come loaded on phones and tablets that "you need").

 vipoid wrote:
To those saying that this is just the standard stock, does 18 painting handles not seem too many to you?

I assume OP was being hyperbolic/stretching the truth, I'm sure its closer to like 6 painting handles than 18. If nothing else, OP's "sector mechanicus terrain is universally hated" quip is good indication that we can't take anything that they say at face value.

Yeah, I hate Sector Mechanicus terrain so much... I bought about $800 worth, just to keep people from having to deal with that garbage.

That's the kind of guy I am. And if you have any you don't want, feth that stupid terrain, give it to me and I'll take care of it free of charge. Someone's gotta deal with this useless garbage.

I don't need your gratitude.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Yeah, I hate Sector Mechanicus terrain so much... I bought about $800 worth, just to keep people from having to deal with that garbage.

I know, right?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Yeah, I hate Sector Mechanicus terrain so much... I bought about $800 worth, just to keep people from having to deal with that garbage.

I know, right?

And I thought my £300 collection of mechanics terrain was excessive, you absolute madlad!

I too have several hundred pounds worth. Sadly, my plan for a home gaming room fell through, as I prefer extra munneh from having a room mate.

Nil desperandum, as I shall donate it to my local Gaming Club. That way I and others get good use out of it!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, OP.

If your FLGS is struggling to shift those Exclusives? Let us know where this story is, and I’ll see if I can send a Looter round for some Tactical Redistribution.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Yeah, I hate Sector Mechanicus terrain so much... I bought about $800 worth, just to keep people from having to deal with that garbage.

I know, right?

Absolutely. Fething. GLORIOUS!

I talked to a game shop owner who had investigated getting into GW a month ago. His tale is... disturbing.

In short, to carry GW stuff you have to set up an account full of money. GW then takes money out of the account and sends you what they want you to have. You can order stuff above and beyond that, but you're still stuck with what they want to send you no matter what. Doesn't matter if you can't move what you're sent, doesn't matter if you've already got a roomful of the stuff they're sending this month, you still get it. Period.

Needless to say, the game shop owner decided this was not a good business strategy for him, and declined to carry GW products. Which is a shame, but under those conditions is 100% understandable.

That sounds like a load of half-truths and BS. There's different levels of being "a store that carries GW", and it's all to do with discounts, shipping and kickbacks. Note that free shipping is EXTREMELY important for an FLGS, because if you pay for shipping you directly eat it out of your profit margins. MSRP is MSRP and getting the best discount is the name of the game.

There's stores that carry some GW items that they buy from 3rd party distributors like Alliance, ACD or E-Figures etc where the distributor buys from many different manufacturers in bulk and will re-sell to the FLGS. FLGS can order as little or as much GW as the FLGS wants to carry, but you normally need to order a minimum total dollar amount to get free shipping for that order, but it can be any mox of GW, RPGs, board games etc. The downside is lower discounts, the upside is that you can mix games and hobby supplies from many different manufacturers to hit that minimum order size. You're also limited to what the distributor has in stock, of course, and it can be weeks before the distributor orders a restock from the manufacturer.

You can also open an account with GW and order directly. This is not "an account you put money into and GW takes out", it's basically a line of credit usually on a net-30 account where you have 30 days to pay for an order. This gives you time to sell the product to pay bills and expenses and get money towards the next order etc. BUT, like any line of credit, you may need to pre-pay for orders until you have established yourself with the company for a few months, (distributors work the exact same way, usually on a net-30 and new accounts need to pre-pay for orders for a few months). Much like a distributor, you need to order a certain amount in order to receive free shipping, and unlike a distributor which will sell individual pots of paint and individual bottles of glue, GW sells many smaller items only as a bulk pack (paint comes only in boxes of 6 of the same paint, for instance, and you need to buy a full box of 12 plastic glue, etc). At this level you usually get full discount, but no extras. If you want GW paint racks or display racks, you have to buy them from GW or figure out how to hold and display all the product some other way and you get no advertising form GW, are not listed for any official events or as a stockist in White Dwarf (uf they still do that) or the website. You ARE required to carry some certain minimums to have a direct account with GW, usually the best-selling GW tools, some paint starters, and a selection of the best-selling units for at least 1 game system (40k, LotR, or WHFB/AoS) but not all three, and your GW sales rep will work with you to adjust that to your areas needs.

Above that, you can be a Partnership Store. Partnership Stores agree to always stock certain regular items (usually geared towards newer players: paint sets, starter boxes, tools and mainline units for popular armies, etc) and must also order a certain amount per month to keep their Partnership status. Partnership stores usually get free display racks to hold boxes and blisters and paints, free signage to advertise, can order "GW Direct-only" items and get early demo/prerelease sets. They get certain amount of free product a month to give away as prize support for tournaments/leagues and some other small perks. You have a set GW sales rep you deal with weekly and he will usually come out in person a few times a year to check out your store and go over things with the owner, what's selling, what's not, whether pushing slow lines or changing displays would be better vs dropping them to spend that money/shelfspace on more of other lines etc. This used to be quite adversarial in the early 2000s under old GW, but ever since 2007 or so it's actually done for the mutual benefit of both GW and the store itself. GW have become quite good at selling their own stuff and are more than happy to help you sell more of their stuff. Missing the Partnership minimum order amounts occasionally isn't a big deal, but if you're missing minimums for months in a row it's usually a sign that bigger problems.

The FLGS I worked at in southern California was a Partnership Store, I left in 2009 and it closed down not long after when the economy hit the crapper, but my current FLGS is also a Partnership Store and I chat with the owners about it now and again, it's still pretty much the same system and they are still mostly quite happy with how GW treats them and the support they get from GW for their leagues and RTTs, and being a Partnership doesn't stop them from running weekly MtG events or RPGs or boradgame nights.

Gaming stores run off Magic the Gathering, and weird stuff most serious gamers wouldn't touch. Example hottest selling RPG book at the local gaming store? My Little Pony.

I think that there is a fair amount of blame to spread around here. The FLGS was making an investment. When I make an investment, I put effort into it, and do my due diligence. If all the FLGS did was decide to stock GW stuff, and did not put any more thought into the stuff that they wanted and just bought what was sold to them, then they are fools.

This being said, GW deserves some blame as well. This relates to the thread on balanced games. GW makes games and models. Many people who purchase GW products buy them to use in GW games. (Some, like cadian guardsmen have such horrendous sculpts that no one would buy them for their aesthetic qualities.) Unfortunatey, GW makes horribly inbalanaced games. Whole armies are practically useless. Even in competative armies, some units are unuseable. As a retailer, if you happen to get saddled with bad units, well then you are pretty much screwed.

Lastly, it is my understanding that GW does require retailers to purchase certain products. (Their sales to corporate clients are not simply a la carte.) Thus, a retailer has to calculate whether they think the investment is worth it given that they are forced to purchase things that may be worthless to them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and the paint handles are so popular because people use them as plugs. My GF loves it. And it gives me something to rest my arms on when I am painting.

tneva82 wrote:Didn't use to have them, then got one and tried while painting sister of battle. Loving it. Only issue is it's bit of annoyance to swap models and as I'm doing lots of short stages...Ah well. At least GW has discount bundle for them so now I have 6 so can paint 6 at a time without swapping models. 6 is good number for me anyway as I'm trying to do more of quality, less of mass speed painting.

Yeah, the paint handles are kind of a pain when assembly line painting, but they are absolutely amazing for when you're trying to focus on a few models! A stock of 18 doesn't seem like a lot at all.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Yeah, I hate Sector Mechanicus terrain so much... I bought about $800 worth, just to keep people from having to deal with that garbage.

I know, right?

i love you right now, HBMC

 Kalamadea wrote:
That sounds like a load of half-truths and BS. There's different levels of being "a store that carries GW", and it's all to do with discounts, shipping and kickbacks. Note that free shipping is EXTREMELY important for an FLGS, because if you pay for shipping you directly eat it out of your profit margins. MSRP is MSRP and getting the best discount is the name of the game.

You could be right. All I know about it is what the store owner told me. He could have been BSing me, or misrepresenting the situation to some degree or another.

That he would do so at all tells me that GW clearly wasn't fun for him to deal with regardless of what the situation actually was.