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It's more a fascination with a 'tragic' situation. Some guys who thought they had it figured out, and it devoured them and they're on a downward spiral.
It's more a fascination with a 'tragic' situation. Some guys who thought they had it figured out, and it devoured them and they're on a downward spiral.
Yup that's my interest in chaos as well.
Alpha Legion fascinate me because, well, they're fun to theorycraft around. My current theory on the Unbroken Chain?
The Alpha Legion is Alpharius. Literally. He shared his blood with them, and part of his consciousness merged with their own (they've done this before). Alpharius, before his fall at the hands of Dorn, was already a sort of 'dispersed consciousness' across his entire Legion.
Is the Alpha Legion loyal? Or are they traitor? Whose side are they on? That's their 'curse'. All legions have a sort of theme that's like a Curse, and Alpha Legion's seems to be 'cause chaos for everyone', like a compulsion. They have no idea whose side they are on, it's not just a meme- it's a sort of mental condition.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/12 20:57:56
The "Abaddon is actually doing the Emperor's will, probably without even knowing it" theory would fit quite well with his actual name, since the odd thing about the Biblical Abaddon is that it's open to interpretation whether he is a fallen or a loyal angel. Sure, he's an embodiment of death and destruction, associated with Sheol (Hell), but he also shows up in Revelation carrying the keys of Hell, suggesting he's the jailor rather than an inmate.
I also agree with Adeptus Doritos about the Alpha Legion. I like the idea that when an Alpha Legionnaire says "I am Alpharius", it might be literally true, at least in that moment.
A little bit of righteous anger now and then is good, actually. Don't trust a person who never gets angry.
It's more a fascination with a 'tragic' situation. Some guys who thought they had it figured out, and it devoured them and they're on a downward spiral.
Yup that's my interest in chaos as well.
Alpha Legion fascinate me because, well, they're fun to theorycraft around. My current theory on the Unbroken Chain?
The Alpha Legion is Alpharius. Literally. He shared his blood with them, and part of his consciousness merged with their own (they've done this before). Alpharius, before his fall at the hands of Dorn, was already a sort of 'dispersed consciousness' across his entire Legion.
Is the Alpha Legion loyal? Or are they traitor? Whose side are they on? That's their 'curse'. All legions have a sort of theme that's like a Curse, and Alpha Legion's seems to be 'cause chaos for everyone', like a compulsion. They have no idea whose side they are on, it's not just a meme- it's a sort of mental condition.
We call them here vulgär anarchist.
Literally vulgar anarchist,or vandals.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Not Online!!! wrote: We call them here vulgär anarchist.
Literally vulgar anarchist,or vandals.
A vulgar anarchist just sounds like someone who draws a penis in the 'A'.
Na, we differenciate here between the violent morons claiming to be anarchists and actual anarchists following their ideology.
2 pair shows, one of them is still socially responisble and decent,the other just a violent prick claiming to be social responsible
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/12 22:10:11
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Not Online!!! wrote: We call them here vulgär anarchist.
Literally vulgar anarchist,or vandals.
A vulgar anarchist just sounds like someone who draws a penis in the 'A'.
Na, we differenciate here between the violent morons claiming to be anarchists and actual anarchists following their ideology.
2 pair shows, one of them is still socially responisble and decent,the other just a violent prick claiming to be social responsible
So Blood Angels then?
Blond angels= Alpha legion confirmed
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/12 22:20:44
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Eh, unrepentant jackasses aren't that interesting or original.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Melissia wrote: Eh, unrepentant jackasses aren't that interesting or original.
So you agree about the Blood Angels I see.
No. Because Blood Angels, despite their flaws, are at least trying to defend something greater than themselves and know that their flaws are something to control rather than embrace.
The same cannot be said of Chaos Marines, who become higher ranking the more they embrace their evil and jackassery.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Melissia wrote: Eh, unrepentant jackasses aren't that interesting or original.
So you agree about the Blood Angels I see.
No. Because Blood Angels, despite their flaws, are at least trying to defend something greater than themselves and know that their flaws are something to control rather than embrace.
The same cannot be said of Chaos Marines, who become higher ranking the more they embrace their evil and jackassery.
Super human pretty boys with a thirst for blood who control it in order to do "good ".
shinros wrote: All the factions are bad in 40k, the issue is because the imperium are largely the "protagonists" some people think they are good.
Tell that to the alien races that were minding their business who just got genocided because the Imperium wanted their world. No one is good in 40k.
To quote Terry Pratchett.
“I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides.”
This quote sums up 40k.
If you apply Pratchett's quote broadly, the people who are starved and killed by totalitarian warlords are also bad people. Which of course, is true, but it ignores all of the context and nuance that may exist between victim and aggressor.
Pinochet throwing Communists out of helicopters broadly similar to the Communist party murdering and disappearing its political opponents. Both are broadly similar to a police force shooting terrorists. Two of these examples can be beneficial to the people of the nation and could be considered a public good, the other is merely a cycle of violence intended to preserve power at any cost.
Rudyard Kipling's 'The Stranger' contextualises the 'bad' of his own people with the 'badness of the stranger'
Spoiler:
The Stranger within my gate,
He may be true or kind,
But he does not talk my talk--
I cannot feel his mind.
I see the face and the eyes and the mouth,
But not the soul behind.
The men of my own stock,
They may do ill or well,
But they tell the lies I am wanted to,
They are used to the lies I tell;
And we do not need interpreters
When we go to buy or sell.
The Stranger within my gates,
He may be evil or good,
But I cannot tell what powers control--
What reasons sway his mood;
Nor when the Gods of his far-off land
Shall repossess his blood.
The men of my own stock,
Bitter bad they may be,
But, at least, they hear the things I hear,
And see the things I see;
And whatever I think of them and their likes
They think of the likes of me.
This was my father's belief
And this is also mine:
Let the corn be all one sheaf--
And the grapes be all one vine,
Ere our children's teeth are set on edge
By bitter bread and wine.
There is the bad that comes from your own family, stock and people and the evil that is forced on you by other alien groups. (Xenos, quite literally and Chaos figuratively)
The Imperium's failings and evils are inherent to it and the people who live there. They are human failings and our own. Chaos is an extradimensional force that seeks to tear down all that people value. Xenos are quite literal aliens who cannot have our best interests at heart. The Imperium is a big brother who treats you unkindly, the other galactic powers are lions and tigers that will eat you. There's no moral sense to be had in equating them.
shinros wrote: All the factions are bad in 40k, the issue is because the imperium are largely the "protagonists" some people think they are good.
Tell that to the alien races that were minding their business who just got genocided because the Imperium wanted their world. No one is good in 40k.
To quote Terry Pratchett.
“I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides.”
This quote sums up 40k.
If you apply Pratchett's quote broadly, the people who are starved and killed by totalitarian warlords are also bad people. Which of course, is true, but it ignores all of the context and nuance that may exist between victim and aggressor.
Pinochet throwing Communists out of helicopters broadly similar to the Communist party murdering and disappearing its political opponents. Both are broadly similar to a police force shooting terrorists. Two of these examples can be beneficial to the people of the nation and could be considered a public good, the other is merely a cycle of violence intended to preserve power at any cost.
Rudyard Kipling's 'The Stranger' contextualises the 'bad' of his own people with the 'badness of the stranger'
Spoiler:
The Stranger within my gate,
He may be true or kind,
But he does not talk my talk--
I cannot feel his mind.
I see the face and the eyes and the mouth,
But not the soul behind.
The men of my own stock,
They may do ill or well,
But they tell the lies I am wanted to,
They are used to the lies I tell;
And we do not need interpreters
When we go to buy or sell.
The Stranger within my gates,
He may be evil or good,
But I cannot tell what powers control--
What reasons sway his mood;
Nor when the Gods of his far-off land
Shall repossess his blood.
The men of my own stock,
Bitter bad they may be,
But, at least, they hear the things I hear,
And see the things I see;
And whatever I think of them and their likes
They think of the likes of me.
This was my father's belief
And this is also mine:
Let the corn be all one sheaf--
And the grapes be all one vine,
Ere our children's teeth are set on edge
By bitter bread and wine.
There is the bad that comes from your own family, stock and people and the evil that is forced on you by other alien groups. (Xenos, quite literally and Chaos figuratively)
The Imperium's failings and evils are inherent to it and the people who live there. They are human failings and our own. Chaos is an extradimensional force that seeks to tear down all that people value. Xenos are quite literal aliens who cannot have our best interests at heart. The Imperium is a big brother who treats you unkindly, the other galactic powers are lions and tigers that will eat you. There's no moral sense to be had in equating them.
The imperium is bad, they all are. End of. It's a totalitarian regime where most of its practices are not even necessary in the grand scheme of things. Said practices is so bad it makes people choose chaos, the imperium sucks, chaos sucks and aliens suck. That's the point of the setting, bad factions slapping each other for survival and power.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/01/13 15:24:06
=Angel= wrote: There is the bad that comes from your own family, stock and people and the evil that is forced on you by other alien groups. (Xenos, quite literally and Chaos figuratively) The Imperium's failings and evils are inherent to it and the people who live there. They are human failings and our own. Chaos is an extradimensional force that seeks to tear down all that people value. Xenos are quite literal aliens who cannot have our best interests at heart. The Imperium is a big brother who treats you unkindly, the other galactic powers are lions and tigers that will eat you. There's no moral sense to be had in equating them.
Basically this. That all factions in 40k are evil doesn't mean all factions in 40k are equal. Factions like the Imperium or the Tau Empire or the Eldar remnants are all morally superior to Chaos in spite of their misdeeds, due to the magnitude of evil Chaos not only does, but the evil it outright embraces and does with insane glee, with the Chaos gods explicitly rewarding those who cause the most suffering and destruction not only to the enemies of Chaos but within the servants of Chaos themselves.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/13 19:32:33
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Being immoral is not conforming to social standards of morality but they belong to a society that has no morality so there are no standards for them to conform to.
Round and around and around we go, where it ends nobody knows!
I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.
I didn't say morality was objective. It's pretty subjective, though if you go too far that direction you risk becoming an ethical relativist, but I meant that Chaos worshipers exist within a society where worshiping Chaos, their very defining trait, is immoral. That's why Chaos gods doing their thing in their own society, being their own creatures, is neither moral nor immoral, while Chaos worshipers can have morality applied to them for the purposes of a discussion.
Death Guard - "The Rotmongers"
Chaos Space Marines - "The Sin-Eaters"
Dark Angels - "Nemeses Errant"
Deathwatch
I didn't say morality was objective. It's pretty subjective, though if you go too far that direction you risk becoming an ethical relativist, but I meant that Chaos worshipers exist within a society where worshiping Chaos, their very defining trait, is immoral. That's why Chaos gods doing their thing in their own society, being their own creatures, is neither moral nor immoral, while Chaos worshipers can have morality applied to them for the purposes of a discussion.
