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The thing is that GW has already implied that this is all possible. They've put a bunch of bugs on a planet with no hive ships around, and then said that they made it back into space.
They've just left the mechanics of 'how' it's possible vague.

Until more information is provided, all we can do is fill in the blanks using the simplest means possible.

Personally I think it makes little sense that tyranids are 100% stuck on a planet once the hive ships are gone. They got up there somehow in the first place, and I see little reason to assume they've lost that capability.
It's probably more efficient to create the ships in space, but if forced to do so I honestly find it a stretch to say they couldn't create them on the ground.

Anphelion Project has escaped gaunts spawning hierophants so there is little sense in saying they can't make hive ships.

BFG2 suggests they create bio-shipyards. Makes sense since tiamet is making a bio-mega-structure.

Anphelion is a weird one and it undermines the point of hive queens. It undermines the point of the differential breeds and hierarchy in the swarm to begin with.

If we consider that canon, then sure, Tyranids can just squeeze out whatever they want for the sake of plot. It makes them really boring though.

If gaunts can breed with each other and build biotitans there's not a lot of point to your specialist breeder types because everyone else can recombine themselves into whatever they want to do, without HM oversight.

This is the problem with new writers adding stuff without thinking about what came before and the consequences.

Hormaguants could breed and reproduce themselves, genestealers as well.

But having them literally be capable of spawning any kind of tyranid undermines the swarm and its components. Stories are made interesting as much by what things can do, as by what they can't.

Instead of birthing a hive ship on the planet, maybe instead it is gestated in space, at the tip of a capillary tower?

With regards to the regeneration of the Tyranid ecosystem on Anphelion, I don't think it was ever explicitly said what kind of creatures were in the initial samples. Certainly they had small creatures like Gaunts, but was it ever said they had (or didn't have) Synapse creatures? In the end they did have Warriors and even a Hive Tyrant I believe, but if they had Synapse creatures to start with, then it is possible the Hive Mind had a presence. Given enough time the presence of Synapse creatures and thus the Hive Mind may allow for the creation of more specialized creatures.

We know from past Tyranid background that swarms and fleets fall into disarray when they lose their Dominatrix/Hive Tyrant/Norn Queen (even though that shouldn't be a vulnerability of a true distributed network), and it is then that enemies often win when they take advantage of the confused Tyranids. However hypothetically, what if nothing else happened after the death of that highest Synapse creature? Maybe the Tyranids would be able to spawn a new one given enough time.

For me, the Anphelion Project seems to suggest that if left alone a Synapse creature will take control of lesser creatures, and presence of the Hive Mind through that Synapse creature will lead (eventually) to the birth of new Synapse creatures. Then as the presence of the Hive Mind grows stronger, more and more diversity is seen as "blueprints" for more creatures are able to be accessed, eventually culminating in the birth of the top level Synapse creatures, and then capillary towers and then the first hive ships.
If the samples had instead consisted solely of Gaunts, with no Synapse creatures whatsoever, then IMO they would have remained Gaunts forever, reproducing independently but just Gaunts.

Hellebore wrote:
We definitely can come up with our own explanations, but they're just that.

Why is it important to know exactly how they created new ships? The point of the story is to show that tyranids can make a rapid come-back if given the opportunity, and I think it tells that story well.

Certainly if tyranids can reproduce space ships via rippers, there would be a lot more space ships than is currently depicted. The hive ship birthing whole other ships is part of the limitation on tyranids.

The number of hive ships in a hive fleet is limited by the amount of available biomass to build them. That is also why they are born after the absorption of a worlds biomass.

It's been inferred that bioships are not simple to make and although rippers can represent the larval stages of a range of bioforms, there's no evidence than tyranids have all the different strains in their DNA like orks do, so they produce any type of nid.

This is from Deathwatch: the achilus assault. Its from FFG, so whether its cannon or not can be debated.

The 3rd edition codex has some hints along the same lines, but nothing was confirmed. I believe it was also touched on in xenology, but I cant remember. I can have a look though.

roboemperor wrote:


BFG2 suggests they create bio-shipyards.

That is at odds with the codex lore.

I fail to see the issue.

The Tyranid consumption of a planet is a massive affair in which the oceans, the atmosphere and the upper crust is consumed.

With such massive movement of materials, building a few (or a lot) kilometer sized ships is trivial. Wherever it is by digging kilometers wide birthing chambers into the crust or using the capillary towers as orbital shipyards doesn't really matter.

Hellebore wrote:
Anphelion is a weird one and it undermines the point of hive queens. It undermines the point of the differential breeds and hierarchy in the swarm to begin with.

No it doesn't. It just means that Tyranid flesh is clay. And when the need arises the Hive Mind will modify any Tyranid flesh into anything they need. For example Gaunts growing wings and then later I assume is the ability to spawn rippers which is said to be able to turn into any Tyranid including Hive Tyrants.

Octarius also didn't have a norn queen or dominatrix at the start. So the only way the Tyranids would've been able to do all of their stuff there is if they had the ability to reproduce without norn-queens, such as building reclamation pools that spawn rippers.

roboemperor wrote:

Hellebore wrote:
Anphelion is a weird one and it undermines the point of hive queens. It undermines the point of the differential breeds and hierarchy in the swarm to begin with.

No it doesn't. It just means that Tyranid flesh is clay. And when the need arises the Hive Mind will modify any Tyranid flesh into anything they need. For example Gaunts growing wings and then later I assume is the ability to spawn rippers which is said to be able to turn into any Tyranid including Hive Tyrants.

Octarius also didn't have a norn queen or dominatrix at the start. So the only way the Tyranids would've been able to do all of their stuff there is if they had the ability to reproduce without norn-queens, such as building reclamation pools that spawn rippers.

Tyranid flesh has always been clay, but it hasn't had a universal set of tools that can turn that clay into anything else without limit. They never had that amount of flexibility and I don't think it does them any favours narratively to give them this ability especially for a wargame where unit designations and divisions are at the core of how armies function.

This is removing any weakness they have at all which imo is not helpful. The limitations on their biology, the heirarchy and control of the swarm help define their character as much as 'can grow new monsters'. Hormaguants could only ever reproduce new hormagaunts so relic infestations were a different problem to a full swarm.

the concept that rippers can literally turn into kilometre long space ships if they just eat enough, that they can morph into literally any bioform the hive produces is not a good retcon of their far more sensible but ultimately limited biology.

Hellebore wrote:
Tyranid flesh has always been clay, but it hasn't had a universal set of tools that can turn that clay into anything else without limit. They never had that amount of flexibility and I don't think it does them any favours narratively to give them this ability especially for a wargame where unit designations and divisions are at the core of how armies function.

This is removing any weakness they have at all which imo is not helpful. The limitations on their biology, the heirarchy and control of the swarm help define their character as much as 'can grow new monsters'. Hormaguants could only ever reproduce new hormagaunts so relic infestations were a different problem to a full swarm.

the concept that rippers can literally turn into kilometre long space ships if they just eat enough, that they can morph into literally any bioform the hive produces is not a good retcon of their far more sensible but ultimately limited biology.

I disagree. They didn't grow the wings or the ability to spawn other tyranids overnight. It's no different than repurposing motorcycle engines into an airplane propeller to build an airplane to escape berlin. It took a while for the tyranid cells to repurpose themselves into wings and reproductive organs.

So gaunts can't spawn other nids by default because reproductive organs on a war machine is a waste of mass and weight just like it's a waste of mass and weight to put in a Lathe or a Milling Machine inside a tank.

It doesn't remove any real weakness imo. Being able to create an army of tyranids by sending a gaunt into a biomass rich world doesn't really do anything other than make them look cooler. They're already doing something far stronger with genestealers.

Did Newcrons retcon the whole teleport before destruction thing? THe lore I'm finding says Warriors die and let out a scream to alert others. And some short stories have impaled necron bodies being carried around.

roboemperor wrote:
Did Newcrons retcon the whole teleport before destruction thing? THe lore I'm finding says Warriors die and let out a scream to alert others. And some short stories have impaled necron bodies being carried around.

It's always been and remains a thing but it's also never been infallible. Sometimes it fails to work, leaving a 'corpse'. The body sticks around as long as the self-repair thinks it has a chance to get it back on its feet, and I guess occasionally it guesses wrong.

Some tech can interfere - a (6th?) Edition Deathwatch apocalypse formation from the Damnos book had "anti-phasic" bolts, and the plastic chaos terminator Lord has had a necrons skull on his trophy rack since way back when.

locarno24 wrote:

roboemperor wrote:
Did Newcrons retcon the whole teleport before destruction thing? THe lore I'm finding says Warriors die and let out a scream to alert others. And some short stories have impaled necron bodies being carried around.

It's always been and remains a thing but it's also never been infallible. Sometimes it fails to work, leaving a 'corpse'. The body sticks around as long as the self-repair thinks it has a chance to get it back on its feet, and I guess occasionally it guesses wrong.

Some tech can interfere - a (6th?) Edition Deathwatch apocalypse formation from the Damnos book had "anti-phasic" bolts, and the plastic chaos terminator Lord has had a necrons skull on his trophy rack since way back when.

I'd make the assumption that psychic powers interfere with it as well. If psychic powers mess up Necron tech it would go a long way to explain how Eldar beat them the first time round and fits with the Necrons being the anti Warp guys.

It is not flawless and can be messed with, specially in Necron vs Necron warfare or by physic phenomena like the Shadow in the Warp.

edit: Deleted

Why did Malcador get so pissy when Horus tried to speak the names of one of the lost primarchs? I get that by then the two were on different sides of a civil war, but you think by the way Malcador acted that Horus was trying to summon a greater daemon. (Just to be clear, I haven't read that book yet.)

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Why did Malcador get so pissy when Horus tried to speak the names of one of the lost primarchs? I get that by then the two were on different sides of a civil war, but you think by the way Malcador acted that Horus was trying to summon a greater daemon. (Just to be clear, I haven't read that book yet.)

At the time of their conversation they aren’t at opposite sides of a civil war, it’s a flashback to pre-heresy during the great crusade.

It’s a long-standing point in the lore that nothing/next to nothing is revealed about the 2 missing legions and their primarchs, so really it’s just a plot contrivance to reference the missing primarchs and legions without giving anything away. It would be weirder really if nobody ever referred to them at all, so it scratched that itch without spoiling the mystery.

Tyrannofex v.s. Stormsurge. Who wins? 1on1.
How many more of the losers will it take to beat the winner?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Does the Hierophant have weapons on its back? I mean theres gotta be a reason for that really hunched back right?

roboemperor wrote:
Tyrannofex v.s. Stormsurge. Who wins? 1on1.
How many more of the losers will it take to beat the winner?

Might be easier to answer in game rather than lore terms. In game terms you can pitch units against each other with fixed stats and situation and extrapolate variations in power roughly from there. In lore SOOOOO many other factors come into play.

Eg what is the situation - a brand new shiny Stormsurge with experienced skilled crew ready trained and everything in tip top condition; or one battle damaged with limited ammo and a novice crew unused to battle against Tyranids?
Is the Tyrannofex alone (rare) and if not then what's with it. Is it hiding behind a rock or charging in an open field or with a swarm of other bugs. Will other bugs rise up to intercept fire from the Stormsurge to protect the greater asset of the tyrannofex or will the swarm sacrifice things the other way around so the stormsurge focuses on the big beasty and lets the smaller things reach it and tear it apart.
What about interference of huge spore clusters in the air causing the Stormsurge to miss; or even taking damage. What if the Tyrannofex shunts more of its energies and such into a single powerful shot that, game wise, doesn't exist but is biologically possible for a Tyranid to do to maximise damage to a single high value enemy target.

Also in stories the "power" of attacks and abilities varies quite considerably. Again its more likely to emulate game powers as a base line to give some rough concept of relative powers; however again we encounter odditites of interpretation and also the fact that rules change so relative power between two units in one edition might be very different to another.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

roboemperor wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Does the Hierophant have weapons on its back? I mean theres gotta be a reason for that really hunched back right?

It looks cool.

Also its body is roughly designed to be capable of walking over the rest of a swarm, hence the arched back and long thin legs as opposed to a more squat and heavy Carnifex design. It's expected to march over the swarm whilst charging forward along with it.

Weapons on its back it doesn't have, several renditions do have flesh-hooks on the chest carapace, but not the back itself. It's primary weapons are its mouth, guns tail and claws. Also note that its towers all along its back spew out spores the whole time (not always represented in model game rules). In fact the forward facing plates look like the spore-thrower backs that carnifex have. So I guess you could count that as a weapon - throwing sporemines; though that's more on the front/shoulder than the full arched back of the model.

roboemperor wrote:

Does the Hierophant have weapons on its back? I mean theres gotta be a reason for that really hunched back right?

Not represented in the current rules, but yes. Those round cysts on its back are for spitting out spore mines, and the large vents are for producing toxic spore clouds. It's also supposed to be able to spray out clouds of anti-aircraft spines. Previous editions of its rules have supported this.

Note that the hierophant is supposed to be able to support all sorts of weapons, like other titans. The unit fluff for it says:

Like all Tyranids, the bio-titan seems able to mutate rapidly, evolving new weapons and defences as required. Other variants of the Hierophant bio-titan have been identified with huge crushing claws or long scythe-like blades, cluster spines and other bio-weapons.

But the rules don't currently support anything but the single model with fixed equipment that we've got.

 Overread wrote:

roboemperor wrote:
Tyrannofex v.s. Stormsurge. Who wins? 1on1.
How many more of the losers will it take to beat the winner?

Might be easier to answer in game rather than lore terms. In game terms you can pitch units against each other with fixed stats and situation and extrapolate variations in power roughly from there. In lore SOOOOO many other factors come into play.

Eg what is the situation - a brand new shiny Stormsurge with experienced skilled crew ready trained and everything in tip top condition; or one battle damaged with limited ammo and a novice crew unused to battle against Tyranids?
Is the Tyrannofex alone (rare) and if not then what's with it. Is it hiding behind a rock or charging in an open field or with a swarm of other bugs. Will other bugs rise up to intercept fire from the Stormsurge to protect the greater asset of the tyrannofex or will the swarm sacrifice things the other way around so the stormsurge focuses on the big beasty and lets the smaller things reach it and tear it apart.
What about interference of huge spore clusters in the air causing the Stormsurge to miss; or even taking damage. What if the Tyrannofex shunts more of its energies and such into a single powerful shot that, game wise, doesn't exist but is biologically possible for a Tyranid to do to maximise damage to a single high value enemy target.

Also in stories the "power" of attacks and abilities varies quite considerably. Again its more likely to emulate game powers as a base line to give some rough concept of relative powers; however again we encounter odditites of interpretation and also the fact that rules change so relative power between two units in one edition might be very different to another.

Yeah. I'm totally asking if a almost destroyed stormsurge standing on top of an nuke that's about to explode is stronger than a top condition tyrannofex supported by the entire swarm >.>

Both units are Gladius's ultimate units for each faction so i wanted to gauge how strong one is to another. So brand new, best equipment, open field, at the maximum range of the unit with the longer range. So the shorter range unit has to take a few hits before getting in range to fire. If cover like trees and stuff make a difference then I'd like to know by how much.

And yes, this scenario is unlikely to be encountered even in Gladius since Tyranid players have to mass spam Tyrannofexes to compete in the lategame.

 Overread wrote:
It looks cool.

Doesn't look cool to me : (

Actually this looks cool
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/2/21/Bio-titan.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130114095514

But this doesn't.
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/a/a0/Hierophant_Bio-Titan.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110719012604

Anyways thanks. You've been most helpful.

Arson Fire wrote:

roboemperor wrote:

Does the Hierophant have weapons on its back? I mean theres gotta be a reason for that really hunched back right?

Not represented in the current rules, but yes. Those round cysts on its back are for spitting out spore mines, and the large vents are for producing toxic spore clouds. It's also supposed to be able to spray out clouds of anti-aircraft spines. Previous editions of its rules have supported this.

Note that the hierophant is supposed to be able to support all sorts of weapons, like other titans. The unit fluff for it says:

Like all Tyranids, the bio-titan seems able to mutate rapidly, evolving new weapons and defences as required. Other variants of the Hierophant bio-titan have been identified with huge crushing claws or long scythe-like blades, cluster spines and other bio-weapons.

But the rules don't currently support anything but the single model with fixed equipment that we've got.

Spore mines are tyranid's missiles right? Yeah that counts.

Thanks!

Aash wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Why did Malcador get so pissy when Horus tried to speak the names of one of the lost primarchs? I get that by then the two were on different sides of a civil war, but you think by the way Malcador acted that Horus was trying to summon a greater daemon. (Just to be clear, I haven't read that book yet.)

At the time of their conversation they aren’t at opposite sides of a civil war, it’s a flashback to pre-heresy during the great crusade.

It’s a long-standing point in the lore that nothing/next to nothing is revealed about the 2 missing legions and their primarchs, so really it’s just a plot contrivance to reference the missing primarchs and legions without giving anything away. It would be weirder really if nobody ever referred to them at all, so it scratched that itch without spoiling the mystery.

Ok, I didn't know that it was a flashback, and I can understand why GW may want to keep it a mystery. Still, for someone so invested in an atheistic philosophy like the Imperial Truth, it's strange that he would act as if simply speaking the names of the lost primarchs was like some form of witchcraft.

That's the problem with tryng to mesh lore, fluff, table top games, computer games and novels, all compiled by different people for different goals. Internal consistency is sketchy at best. Then someone comes and asks a question like this and whatever we get are ad hoc rationalization at best, often with little to no thought of the impact on bigger events.

Because it's fictional there isn't any basis for making claim based on physics or science. It's quite possible they could build independent components that assemble into a bio ship, or can create an entity capable of birthing a bio ship. You even said "as far as we know" which opens up any possibility.

As with a lot of stuff in the 40K universe se things happen just because. Is that a satisfying answer? No, not really, but that's where suspension of disbelief comes in. Getting a satisfying answer may lead to retcons which damage other lore.

roboemperor wrote:
Does the Hierophant have weapons on its back? I mean theres gotta be a reason for that really hunched back right?

Bad creature design.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

roboemperor wrote:

Doesn't look cool to me : (

Actually this looks cool
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/2/21/Bio-titan.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130114095514

But this doesn't.
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/a/a0/Hierophant_Bio-Titan.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110719012604

I went hunting for decent photos of (or at least a decent look at) the original epic model after that hierophant/hydraphant thread: gave me a whole new appreciation of the old pre-3rd 40K nid look, and more conviction that the FW hierophant is a bit of an unimaginative port of the 3rd ed design features, while trying to skimp on the amount of resin needed.

That first pic is more in line with the old mini in terms of the proportions, the bioweapons, and a few other details. Takes after the new one in the hunched pose and the too-big horns/carapace flaps, though. I'm not altogether sure where those are supposed to fit on, in the illustration, either.

roboemperor wrote:

Yeah. I'm totally asking if a almost destroyed stormsurge standing on top of an nuke that's about to explode is stronger than a top condition tyrannofex supported by the entire swarm >.>

Both units are Gladius's ultimate units for each faction so i wanted to gauge how strong one is to another. So brand new, best equipment, open field, at the maximum range of the unit with the longer range. So the shorter range unit has to take a few hits before getting in range to fire. If cover like trees and stuff make a difference then I'd like to know by how much.

And yes, this scenario is unlikely to be encountered even in Gladius since Tyranid players have to mass spam Tyrannofexes to compete in the lategame..

You sort of missed my point in that I was saying you need to provide context including what realm you're talking about. Tabletop game, Lore, Gladius in game etc... Each one could present a very different answer. Eg Trees might provide no cover against weapon fire in the tabletop game; however in Gladius they might provide a cover bonus and in lore it would depend on the world and the trees specifically with some worlds having very different types of tree - some of which might even have razor bark so the tyranid moving through could even be at risk of taking scratches on its legs whilst advancing (for example).

If you're trying to compare in Gladius I can't answer as I don't own the Tau content yet, but you could match the two together in a game and see what happens (might need a mod to allow you to force a situation like that without having to contrive one in-game - or simply talk to someone in multiplayer to setup a game match with them to do it).

 Overread wrote:
It looks cool.

Doesn't look cool to me : (

Actually this looks cool
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/2/21/Bio-titan.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130114095514

But this doesn't.
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/a/a0/Hierophant_Bio-Titan.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110719012604

 Overread wrote:
You sort of missed my point in that I was saying you need to provide context including what realm you're talking about. Tabletop game, Lore, Gladius in game etc... Each one could present a very different answer. Eg Trees might provide no cover against weapon fire in the tabletop game; however in Gladius they might provide a cover bonus and in lore it would depend on the world and the trees specifically with some worlds having very different types of tree - some of which might even have razor bark so the tyranid moving through could even be at risk of taking scratches on its legs whilst advancing (for example).

If you're trying to compare in Gladius I can't answer as I don't own the Tau content yet, but you could match the two together in a game and see what happens (might need a mod to allow you to force a situation like that without having to contrive one in-game - or simply talk to someone in multiplayer to setup a game match with them to do it).

This is a lore thread in the lore section of the forum ;P

If it's undeterminable with lore then Tabletop I guess. I already know the answer in gladius but I don't think gladius is supposed to be an accurate representation of unit strength? 4 or 5 doomscythes kill Lord of Skulls for example.

Gladius is similar to tabletop in that unit numbers you see don't reflect "real" numbers. Eg gaunt units have only what 8 or so models on the view where we know in reality there would be hundreds of actual gaunts running around (if not thousands). So that single Doomscythe model might be 1 or it might be a wing or a flight so it could be 3 or 12 or however many fits into the lore.


In the end I would wager that lore wise the Stormsurge would potentially have a greater chance to win. It's a dedicated battle platform designed to take on single high power high armour targets (titans). The Tyrannofex isn't a titan, its big but its not titanic. Both feature long range weaponary and can hit each other at extreme distances with extreme power.
The Stormsurge is also an elite unit within an elite style army whilst the Tyrannofex is an elite unit within an army that relies most heavily on weight of numbers. The Stormsurge is thus perhaps more durable in general.

That said both feature supremely powerful long ranged weapons and the Tyrannofex can deliver its primary payload at its most extreme range. This presents a lore situation where both could snipe the other and thus the winner might be whichever gets the first shot. It also depends where the shot lands - if the Tyrannofex takes out the primary gun or a leg then the stormsurge might be unable to reply with its primary armament. The same is true of the Stormsurge hitting the Tyrannofex - hit the right spot (that huge gun) and you can again run a chance of downing its main attack option.

The Stormsurge does have better closer range weapons in general; its designed to operate on its own more so; whilst the Tyrannofex has particularly weaker close range support weapons and relies on the bulk of the swarm to protect it. However neither would want to approach the other to use their closer ranged weapons thus its somewhat of a moot point.



One benefit the Tyrannofex has is a lower body profile and a more dynamic and mobile body. Whilst it is somwhat slower than many other Tyranids its still much more mobile than the Stormsurge, which has to deploy itself into a static position to make use of its primary weapons. The Tyrannofex thus has a potential to use more of the terrain to protect itself. If we swing back to the "whichever fires and hits first might well win" argument then the Tyrannofex might well have the edge there in being able to better use terrain to its own advantage.
It's also capable of using its spore vents to generate its own spore clouds. This isn't always shown in games, but whilst the Venomthrope is held up as the spore cloud generator in the game; most tyranids produce sports from tehir vents. A Tyrannodfex has a particularly large number of them and, lore wise, I would assume is possible of clouding itself and the area around it in spores. Of course the Stormsurge likely has multiple bands of vision possible so it might be that the spores don't offer much real world protection against disrupting the Stormsurges ability to get a lock-on.

 Overread wrote:
Gladius is similar to tabletop in that unit numbers you see don't reflect "real" numbers. Eg gaunt units have only what 8 or so models on the view where we know in reality there would be hundreds of actual gaunts running around (if not thousands). So that single Doomscythe model might be 1 or it might be a wing or a flight so it could be 3 or 12 or however many fits into the lore.


In the end I would wager that lore wise the Stormsurge would potentially have a greater chance to win. It's a dedicated battle platform designed to take on single high power high armour targets (titans). The Tyrannofex isn't a titan, its big but its not titanic. Both feature long range weaponary and can hit each other at extreme distances with extreme power.
The Stormsurge is also an elite unit within an elite style army whilst the Tyrannofex is an elite unit within an army that relies most heavily on weight of numbers. The Stormsurge is thus perhaps more durable in general.

That said both feature supremely powerful long ranged weapons and the Tyrannofex can deliver its primary payload at its most extreme range. This presents a lore situation where both could snipe the other and thus the winner might be whichever gets the first shot. It also depends where the shot lands - if the Tyrannofex takes out the primary gun or a leg then the stormsurge might be unable to reply with its primary armament. The same is true of the Stormsurge hitting the Tyrannofex - hit the right spot (that huge gun) and you can again run a chance of downing its main attack option.

The Stormsurge does have better closer range weapons in general; its designed to operate on its own more so; whilst the Tyrannofex has particularly weaker close range support weapons and relies on the bulk of the swarm to protect it. However neither would want to approach the other to use their closer ranged weapons thus its somewhat of a moot point.



One benefit the Tyrannofex has is a lower body profile and a more dynamic and mobile body. Whilst it is somwhat slower than many other Tyranids its still much more mobile than the Stormsurge, which has to deploy itself into a static position to make use of its primary weapons. The Tyrannofex thus has a potential to use more of the terrain to protect itself. If we swing back to the "whichever fires and hits first might well win" argument then the Tyrannofex might well have the edge there in being able to better use terrain to its own advantage.
It's also capable of using its spore vents to generate its own spore clouds. This isn't always shown in games, but whilst the Venomthrope is held up as the spore cloud generator in the game; most tyranids produce sports from tehir vents. A Tyrannodfex has a particularly large number of them and, lore wise, I would assume is possible of clouding itself and the area around it in spores. Of course the Stormsurge likely has multiple bands of vision possible so it might be that the spores don't offer much real world protection against disrupting the Stormsurges ability to get a lock-on.

Thanks you've been tremendously helpful.

How strong are Hierodules compared to Tyrannofexes, Stormsurges, and Obelisks? (lore not tabletop or video games).

No idea, Hierodules have practically no lore unlike the larger Hierophant that is the standard Tyranid bio-titan (and thus has far more feats against Titans).

With Tyranids only just getting into Epic 40K before it imploded and then GW never really revisiting them since; there's been no real need for advanced or detailed lore on bigger monsters for Tyranids. There's a few Forgeworld models, but by and large there's no real foundation for them to build on the lore in a big way.


Also way back in epic the Hierodules was a titan, only just a tiny bit smaller than the Hierophant. The FW release changed quite a bit in size and scale and focus.