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Made in za
Dakka Veteran



South Africa

What's the reason Traitor Marines don't use Xeno weapons? The Inquisition isn't likely to come down on them any harder.

Marines with Tau plasma rifles? They would have given the Firstborn a run for their money.

KBK 
   
Made in gb
Moustache-twirling Princeps




United Kingdom

Kayback wrote:
What's the reason Traitor Marines don't use Xeno weapons? The Inquisition isn't likely to come down on them any harder.

I would guess supply lines and/or attachment to their bolters. 30k Blackshields have the option of taking 'Unsanctioned Weaponry', which can be either modified or Xenos weapons.
   
Made in gb
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

Kayback wrote:
What's the reason Traitor Marines don't use Xeno weapons? The Inquisition isn't likely to come down on them any harder.

Marines with Tau plasma rifles? They would have given the Firstborn a run for their money.


Codex balance/rule limitations and what different miniature options you can fit into a standard box/sprue

You're right - wouldn't be anything to stop them at all.
Soldiers, especially those that have cast off the yoke of the Imperium, are pretty much always going to go for the weapon that gives them the biggest boom (the 'forbidden tech' shield that keeps them alive or whatever)
I suppose the bolter is a pretty formidable weapon by itself (especially for the type of warfare that Marines carry out) but you can totally imagine individual warriors having come across both xenos or even dark-age technology in their travels and employing it. And it might be like the 'Alien Blaster' you can find in Fallout, you know you're not going to get endless shots with it so you keep it in its holster for when you come up against something especially tough!

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Made in us
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan




Mexico

Traitor Marines tend to be even more xenophobic than Loyalist ones, so it is very likely a case of hating the alien and alien tech.

Also Tau plasma rifles are weaker than human ones. They are safer and more reliable, but the boys in spikes didn't become the boys in spikes that literally sold their souls to empowered weakness (AKA Chaos) by taking the safer and reliable choice.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/26 16:06:15


 
   
Made in za
Dakka Veteran



South Africa

All good points, thanks.

KBK 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Also there’s the size issue. Human/tau sized weapons would be comically small in space marine hands.
   
Made in za
Dakka Veteran



South Africa

Aash wrote:
Also there’s the size issue. Human/tau sized weapons would be comically small in space marine hands.


I had thought of that but I'm guessing a TM wouldn't be beyond removing the trigger guard on a Plasma Rifle. I mean they aren't known for following safety protocols. And they do have armourers. Turning a Plasma Rifle into a "heavy plasma pistol" shouldn't take too much effort.

KBK 
   
Made in fi
Regular Dakkanaut





Is there any explanation to why individual SM Chapters are so much better supplied fleet-wise as opposed to SM Legion chapter counterparts?

I mean an ordinary Chapter may have like 2 to 3 battle barges and 7-10 strike cruisers plus escorts for all of them.

Where as in SM Legions for instance the Death Guard had 70 capital ships and 210 escorts. And they had 95 Chapters worth of Marines. Yet a single Chapter has a seventh of the entire fleet strength of a legion. And some legions had even smaller fleets.

I mean given the whole thing in 40k era about tech breaking down and regressing from 30k era with less new stuff being built to replace it, I don't get why suddenly Space Marines have managed to inflate their fleet size several times over.
   
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Joined the Military for Authentic Experience





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

 Tyran wrote:
Traitor Marines tend to be even more xenophobic than Loyalist ones, so it is very likely a case of hating the alien and alien tech.


Not necessarily. The very fact that they are no longer loyalists means that they have turned away from a blinkered/dogmatic view of the universe. I would say if anything they are more likely to make use of non-standard approaches to both wargear and warfare.
Also 'renegade' does not always necessarily mean they have turned to Chaos; look at the Chapters involved in the Badab War or the Soul Drinkers for example.

If you're a renegade group of marines on the run from Loyalist chapters trying to hunt you down, Inquisitors, and still fighting whatever Xenos come your way I think you would take a long hard look at any advantages you can get.

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Made in gb
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch




dorset

 Tyzarion_Kronius wrote:
Is there any explanation to why individual SM Chapters are so much better supplied fleet-wise as opposed to SM Legion chapter counterparts?

I mean an ordinary Chapter may have like 2 to 3 battle barges and 7-10 strike cruisers plus escorts for all of them.

Where as in SM Legions for instance the Death Guard had 70 capital ships and 210 escorts. And they had 95 Chapters worth of Marines. Yet a single Chapter has a seventh of the entire fleet strength of a legion. And some legions had even smaller fleets.

I mean given the whole thing in 40k era about tech breaking down and regressing from 30k era with less new stuff being built to replace it, I don't get why suddenly Space Marines have managed to inflate their fleet size several times over.


Best i can suggest is that crusade era marines would often make use of imperial navy vessels as transports as the strict separation of guard, navy and marines was a post heresy thing. Thus they would heavily intermix the services whenever they wanted or needed to

To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.

Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
 
   
Made in mx
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan




Mexico

 Pacific wrote:


Not necessarily. The very fact that they are no longer loyalists means that they have turned away from a blinkered/dogmatic view of the universe.

And adopted a worse one. Moreover, Chaos Marines didn't turn away of the IoM's dogmatic views regarding Xenos, they turned away because they wanted power, they wanted to kill, enslave and do all that bad things we associate with Chaos. They turned away to become worse.

I would say if anything they are more likely to make use of non-standard approaches to both wargear and warfare.

Also 'renegade' does not always necessarily mean they have turned to Chaos; look at the Chapters involved in the Badab War or the Soul Drinkers for example.


It means that 99% of the time, that's why the rules for Renegade Chapters are in the Chaos Space Marine codex. As for those examples? a considerable portion of the Marines involved ended going to Chaos anyway.

If you're a renegade group of marines on the run from Loyalist chapters trying to hunt you down, Inquisitors, and still fighting whatever Xenos come your way I think you would take a long hard look at any advantages you can get.

And the other side of the argument is that xeno weaponry is not usually an advantage. Aside of the logistical issues such weaponry represents, the most potent xeno weaponry is found in factions that a renegade group of Marines has no place fighting. Such group attempting to raid a Eldar Craftworld or an Necron Tombworld is very quickly going to find themselves dead.
   
Made in fi
Regular Dakkanaut





For how long the Dark Angels were the only legion before the other legions were founded?
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






 Tyzarion_Kronius wrote:
For how long the Dark Angels were the only legion before the other legions were founded?
The Dark Angels creation as a legion was at least before "the Third Siege of Antioch in 603.M30". The Great Crusade is slated to have started ~798.M30, by which time all the Legions had been formed (to varying degrees of success). I'd say they'd have at most 100 years as the sole Astartes formation, maybe 120 at most.

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dark_Angels#Unification_Wars
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Great_Crusade

However while those were Astartes, they weren't actually a Legion just yet. Valdor: Birth of the Imperium (Novel) which states the Palace Coup was "their very first live combat engagement" and occurred ~700.M30, while another source states "At the Siege of Samerkend in 668.M30 the First Legion took to the field en mass publicly for the first time."

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Palace_Coup

During the First Pacification of Luna, in ~798.M30, "The Emperor deployed three Space Marine Legions, VII Legion, XIII Legion, and XVI Legion" so there were at least more legions by that time.

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/First_Pacification_of_Luna

This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2020/12/02 23:41:05


 
   
Made in fi
Regular Dakkanaut





So that explains how they got so huge to begin with with having that long a time with no competitor legions to share recruits with despite not having Ultramarines' 500 prosperous worlds backing their recruitment with the admimistrative and logistical savant Guilliman at the helm, or Perturabo's very low-rejection-rate gene-seed backed by Perturabo's mathematical and logistical genius making recruitment very streamlined and effective for the Iron Warriors. And it also explains why Dark Angels never really recovered after their losses in Rangdan Xenocides.
   
Made in gb
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

Is there actually any info about on the Rangdan? Lexicanum doesn't have much, not really a settled description of what they looked like, how they waged war and (perhaps the most interesting question) why it seems like they were almost certainly the most dangerous foe faced during the Great Crusade.

Would be a really cool Epic 6mm project, of 'first legion' Dark Angels vs masses of Rangdan, as a huge project (complete with linked BFG and smaller scale 28mm games )

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Made in us
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan




Mexico

There was some recent info about them in one of the HH books (for the game, not the series).
   
Made in gb
Moustache-twirling Princeps




United Kingdom

 Tyran wrote:
There was some recent info about them in one of the HH books (for the game, not the series).

Yep - The Horus Heresy Book 9 – Crusade has stuff on them.
   
Made in gb
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

Great stuff - thanks guys.

Now to find a thread on a forum where people are talking about the contents, so I don't have to buy the book and therefore forgo buying a meal over Christmas (with drinks) for a family of four

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[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







 Pacific wrote:
Is there actually any info about on the Rangdan? Lexicanum doesn't have much, not really a settled description of what they looked like, how they waged war and (perhaps the most interesting question) why it seems like they were almost certainly the most dangerous foe faced during the Great Crusade.

Would be a really cool Epic 6mm project, of 'first legion' Dark Angels vs masses of Rangdan, as a huge project (complete with linked BFG and smaller scale 28mm games )


Sure, here's an in depth guide from the Regimental Standard:-



 
   
Made in gb
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

Thanks for posting Ketara

Sorry for asking but is... that it?

Lucky I didn't buy the book for info about about the Rangdan Xenocides, it would have worked out at £45 per word !

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Made in be
Regular Dakkanaut





 Pacific wrote:
Thanks for posting Ketara

Sorry for asking but is... that it?

Lucky I didn't buy the book for info about about the Rangdan Xenocides, it would have worked out at £45 per word !


What Ketara posted is from Regimental Standard; a little satirical blog made by Warhammer Community.

https://regimental-standard.com/2018/03/28/field-dressing-a-lasgun-wound/

There might be more mentioned in the Horus Heresy books, but don't hope that any of those books go into great detail.

   
Made in gb
Battleship Captain




It's scattered across multiple books.
A collated version exists here:
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Rangdan_Xenocides

Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
 
   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







 Pacific wrote:
Thanks for posting Ketara

Sorry for asking but is... that it?

Lucky I didn't buy the book for info about about the Rangdan Xenocides, it would have worked out at £45 per word !


I was teasing slightly, I'll admit.

Essentially, there's little in the way of substantial sources about the Xenocides that you can just flat out buy. Much like the missing Primarchs, what we have is a series of glimpses and half-references, which make a shadowy whole when put together. In terms of what they looked like or how they made war, they had a variety of means.

First off, they bred and enslaved humans as a slave army on a massive scale. They fitted them all with neural collars which allowed them to be controlled as a cohesive whole (up to 10,000 humans could be controlled by one Rangda). Tactically, these humans were used to tie up and distract the enemy whilst more dedicated units of Rangda soldiers slammed home.The Rangda themselves were large enough to go toe-toe with a Space Marine one and one and carried personal shielding and poisoned blades.

In space, they seem to have deployed robotic technology of a sort ('Stalker Drones') which boarded and gutted enemy ships. They also had many smaller ships called 'war-barques' which deployed electromagnetic/radiation weaponry. Finally, much like Orks, they seem to have been able to hollow out and fortify large space debris like moons and asteroids. In the Battle of Advex-Mors, they actually managed to destroy a Gloriana class ship with one of these.

In terms of more esoteric forces, they deployed gigantic 'Ossieovores' (or Bone-Eaters), Cerbvores (or Brain-Eaters), Basemekanic 'Macrobeests' (some sort of biomechanical space weapon), and Slaugth 'Murder-Minds'. It's unclear if the Slaugth and Basemekanic were subservient to, allies of, or dominators over the Rangda. But given how they deployed humans, it's not unlikely that the Rangda enslaved and made use of (what would be to them) other Xenos on the battlefield.

Given that the Void Dragon was what it took to defeat the Rangda, and it's hinted elsewhere that the Void Dragon seems to have a disgust for bio-mechanical technology? Well, biomechanical is the Slaugth's way of making warfare, so it's not a stretch to think that the Rangda may also have made considerable use of that sort of tech. Hence why the Emperor threw the Dragon at them.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/12/04 17:27:16



 
   
Made in fi
Regular Dakkanaut





What are the most impressive cases of Magnus (prior to becoming a Daemon Prince) using his psyker powers?
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






 Tyzarion_Kronius wrote:
What are the most impressive cases of Magnus (prior to becoming a Daemon Prince) using his psyker powers?
I mean, there was that one time where he literally caused the Webway gate under the Golden Throne to start spewing daemons like it was going out of style, because he literally punched though the Emperor's most powerful psychic wards.
   
Made in it
Regular Dakkanaut




In that case he was helped by the Chaos Gods, even if he didn't know that.

The answer is inside you; but it is wrong. 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






The_Grim_Angel wrote:
In that case he was helped by the Chaos Gods, even if he didn't know that.
Yes, but it was "prior to becoming a Daemon Prince", thus my answer fell within the parameters given.

Also the time he pulled a Giganta and grew to the size of a Warlord Titan so he could punch Ork Gargants to death.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/12/05 19:38:32


 
   
Made in us
Wicked Canoptek Wraith




How strong are tomb stalkers and tomb sentinels? Like what class are they in?

I know they're not titan class
...dreadnought?
...defiler?
...Obelisk?
...C'tan Shard?
...Stormsurge?
...Riptide?
   
Made in fi
Regular Dakkanaut





Is there any hint on how many Tempestus Scions are there? Billions? A trillion?
   
Made in za
Dakka Veteran



South Africa

Besides maybe the Grey Knights which SM chapter is closest to the Inquisition?

I'm wanting to make a super Deathwatch heavy army. I am unlikely to every play it again but I want some sort of lore to look into to see how I could maybe go about it

KBK 
   
 
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