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 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:


Is 2 weeks the norm? As in the free faqs we get on the community site?

Yes.

I guess you could also argue they haven't "fully" released Sisters yet, so they are holding fire on the FAQs until after the holidays.

I am afraid that this exactly is the case.

As to the rule change, I am not diving through 145 books to find the one where it changed from "Commissars disrupt the Tempestus Scion Reg Doctrine" into "Commissars, Primaris Psychers, Astropaths, et al no longer violate Regimental Doctrine rules." But if I had to guess, it would have been around when they dropped the "custom Regiments rule".

I know this isn't GW, but they are the official team that runs the ITC events, and they are members of the play testing group.

That being said I don't want to pull us any further off topic than I already have.

The rule about Commissars not disrupting the doctrines is in the printed codex, it has never changed. Also the text you linked has nothing to do with that.

I was about to say

I guess to be fair to GW, people are probably only just now finishing up painting the box, if they got to work on it straight away, right?

But then I remembered all the people who already have Sisters armies, maybe got the Canoness done first, and regardless would probably like a properly FAQ'd / Errata'd version of the new rules to play with…

 Crimson wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:


Is 2 weeks the norm? As in the free faqs we get on the community site?

Yes.

I guess you could also argue they haven't "fully" released Sisters yet, so they are holding fire on the FAQs until after the holidays.

I am afraid that this exactly is the case.

As to the rule change, I am not diving through 145 books to find the one where it changed from "Commissars disrupt the Tempestus Scion Reg Doctrine" into "Commissars, Primaris Psychers, Astropaths, et al no longer violate Regimental Doctrine rules." But if I had to guess, it would have been around when they dropped the "custom Regiments rule".

I know this isn't GW, but they are the official team that runs the ITC events, and they are members of the play testing group.

That being said I don't want to pull us any further off topic than I already have.

The rule about Commissars not disrupting the doctrines is in the printed codex, it has never changed. Also the text you linked has nothing to do with that.

Isn't the source the same one that tried playing semantic games around their Nazi knight paint job?

WYSIWYG only "forces" those with OCD to buy extra models.

The rest - well, you "choose" to do it.

Catulle wrote:

Isn't the source the same one that tried playing semantic games around their Nazi knight paint job?

What?

 Crimson wrote:

Catulle wrote:

Isn't the source the same one that tried playing semantic games around their Nazi knight paint job?

What?

It was FLG with the totenkopf, wasn't it? If not, I'll unreservedly apologise, but if so it speaks to a certain level of disingenuousness.

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Knight.Matt_-932x1024.png

Yeah, that was the head of FLG. But then again 40k has always somehow attracted the worst of that crowd. I went to an ITC match in NY where there was a team (two guys) with star of Rhodesia badges. It pervades a lot of the edgy hobbies.

That aside, what has GW said, if anything, about this specific model? Has anyone tried mailing them or FB messaging their rules people?

A "We are looking into this" would be something at least.

I’m sure the Sister model will get rules. They had to faq the Eisenhorn model who only had one wound...

Catulle wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

Catulle wrote:

Isn't the source the same one that tried playing semantic games around their Nazi knight paint job?

What?

It was FLG with the totenkopf, wasn't it? If not, I'll unreservedly apologise, but if so it speaks to a certain level of disingenuousness.

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Knight.Matt_-932x1024.png

Oh god… someone showed me that knight on twitter a few months ago and I couldn't BELIEVE the excuses dude was using.

"Oh, my 'friend', who's 'asian', just freehanded it, and it 'just happened' to look exactly like an SS symbol! Stop being so paranoid!"

Ay-yai-yai.

Catulle wrote:

It was FLG with the totenkopf, wasn't it? If not, I'll unreservedly apologise, but if so it speaks to a certain level of disingenuousness.

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Knight.Matt_-932x1024.png

Oh, I googled that incident now. I can certainly believe that the artist merely made a mistake, googled 'skull symbol' or something like that and didn't realise what it was. But boy, Reece's defence of what happened was something! He refused to accept that any mistake had happened, refused to accept that it was plainly a nazi symbol, refused to apologise and berated people who brought it up. The guy is a total shitweasel.

 Crimson wrote:

Catulle wrote:

It was FLG with the totenkopf, wasn't it? If not, I'll unreservedly apologise, but if so it speaks to a certain level of disingenuousness.

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Knight.Matt_-932x1024.png

Oh, I googled that incident now. I can certainly believe that the artist merely made a mistake, googled 'skull symbol' or something like that and didn't realise what it was. But boy, Reece's defence of what happened was something! He refused to accept that any mistake had happened, refused to accept that it was plainly a nazi symbol, refused to apologise and berated people who brought it up. The guy is a total shitweasel.

The amount of overt lies I saw in the excuses (at least in the screencaps my friend showed me, which might not have been the same stuff you saw) made me hiiiiighly doubtful it was an accident.

I might be treading dangerously close to politics stuff here, and already got a post deleted this morning for that, but it's a pattern I often see among neo-nazi types, where they explicitly signal their views with various symbols, and then when called on it, lie through their teeth to accuse everyone else of being "paranoid", "politically correct", "seeing nazism in everything", etc. Genuine accidents do happen, of course, especially with stuff like norse runes and the "okay" symbol, but… it's not that hard to tell when it's deliberate.

Sincere apologies to mods if this crosses the line and needs to get nixed.

Well yeah, the excuses certainly made it being a mistake seem way less likely.

The red and white background doesn't exactly spell accident either...

 Crimson wrote:
Oh, I googled that incident now. I can certainly believe that the artist merely made a mistake, googled 'skull symbol' or something like that and didn't realise what it was. But boy, Reece's defence of what happened was something! He refused to accept that any mistake had happened, refused to accept that it was plainly a nazi symbol, refused to apologise and berated people who brought it up. The guy is a total shitweasel.

Of course.

Everyone is a secret Nazi.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Oh, I googled that incident now. I can certainly believe that the artist merely made a mistake, googled 'skull symbol' or something like that and didn't realise what it was. But boy, Reece's defence of what happened was something! He refused to accept that any mistake had happened, refused to accept that it was plainly a nazi symbol, refused to apologise and berated people who brought it up. The guy is a total shitweasel.

Of course.

Everyone is a secret Nazi.

Sometimes it is not that secret!

Hey Fezzik, is that store your only decent option nearby?

It must be so nice to be in Britain, Spain or France where there's enough wargaming stores you never get forced to go to a particular one.

There's a proper GW store in Burnaby (a suburb of Van), but it's waaaay off the trainline and I don't have a car, whereas there's an LGS just one quick bus ride up from a stop pretty dang close to my house. So the LGS is my only option (especially for actually playing a game). I like them okay, but they carry Warmahordes, some Warlord stuff, Star Wars legions, boardgames, RPGs *and* a ton of different boardgames, so they can't maintain a particularly extensive 40k selection. I can do special orders, of course, but I'm worried I'm kinda stressing them out with all the stuff I order in, particularly over the last month or so with the Sororitas box and Drukhari battleforce I pre-ordered almost back-to-back.

(Obviously it'll take me awhile to get those all built and painted, but I wanted to take advantage of the hundreds of bucks it'll save me over buying individual kits, and I like several of the box-only Sisters models, like The Illegal Canoness herself).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crimson wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Oh, I googled that incident now. I can certainly believe that the artist merely made a mistake, googled 'skull symbol' or something like that and didn't realise what it was. But boy, Reece's defence of what happened was something! He refused to accept that any mistake had happened, refused to accept that it was plainly a nazi symbol, refused to apologise and berated people who brought it up. The guy is a total shitweasel.

Of course.

Everyone is a secret Nazi.

Sometimes it is not that secret!

This is fun:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvgZtdmyKlI

You are not a nazi just because you paint a symbol on a miniature. But for whatever reason you are doing it, whether you find it fitting for a setting with lots and lots of totalitarian grimdark, if it is your genuine politics, or if you are just being a (most likely) total edgelord, you should be enough of a grown up to just own it. Now, that is all I'm going to say on the subject, before this devolves into something directly political.

 Aestas wrote:
You are not a nazi just because you paint a symbol on a miniature. But for whatever reason you are doing it, whether you find it fitting for a setting with lots and lots of totalitarian grimdark, if it is your genuine politics, or if you are just being a (most likely) total edgelord, you should be enough of a grown up to just own it. Now, that is all I'm going to say on the subject, before this devolves into something directly political.

Yeah. Painting the symbol on the miniature does not make someone a neo-nazi. After all, not everyone who plays Axis in historical war-games is a nazi! It's how dude acted in response to being called on it that's an issue.

Anyway…

SO HOW ABOUT THAT WYSIWYG HUH

nataliereed1984 wrote:

 Aestas wrote:
You are not a nazi just because you paint a symbol on a miniature. But for whatever reason you are doing it, whether you find it fitting for a setting with lots and lots of totalitarian grimdark, if it is your genuine politics, or if you are just being a (most likely) total edgelord, you should be enough of a grown up to just own it. Now, that is all I'm going to say on the subject, before this devolves into something directly political.

Yeah. Painting the symbol on the miniature does not make someone a neo-nazi. After all, not everyone who plays Axis in historical war-games is a nazi! It's how dude acted in response to being called on it that's an issue.

Anyway…

SO HOW ABOUT THAT WYSIWYG HUH

Come to think of it, his friend might also just have pranked the f out of him It is never nice to be proven a fool...

Now... WYSIWYG... I'm generally a huge fan, although common sense, courtesy and largeness in regards to funky conversions and life in general should of course be shown as much as possible within reason.

I'm sorry but I don't see that much a resemblance. What's the original symbol look like again?

nataliereed1984 wrote:

 Aestas wrote:
You are not a nazi just because you paint a symbol on a miniature. But for whatever reason you are doing it, whether you find it fitting for a setting with lots and lots of totalitarian grimdark, if it is your genuine politics, or if you are just being a (most likely) total edgelord, you should be enough of a grown up to just own it. Now, that is all I'm going to say on the subject, before this devolves into something directly political.

Yeah. Painting the symbol on the miniature does not make someone a neo-nazi. After all, not everyone who plays Axis in historical war-games is a nazi! It's how dude acted in response to being called on it that's an issue.

Anyway…

SO HOW ABOUT THAT WYSIWYG HUH

Well, if what you see is Nazis...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm sorry but I don't see that much a resemblance. What's the original symbol look like again?

Speaking of disingenuous, here's Slayer-Fan who is now *mysteriously* incapable of basic research on anything that doesn't confirm their biases... what a surprise

Hint: try a GIS for "ss totenkopf" like any default-functional person would.

Catulle wrote:


Well, if what you see is Nazis...

*sips tea*

Hint: try a GIS for "ss totenkopf" like any default-functional person would.

Or anyone not deliberately trying to bait people into posting nazi symbols on a webforum…

Catulle wrote:

nataliereed1984 wrote:

 Aestas wrote:
You are not a nazi just because you paint a symbol on a miniature. But for whatever reason you are doing it, whether you find it fitting for a setting with lots and lots of totalitarian grimdark, if it is your genuine politics, or if you are just being a (most likely) total edgelord, you should be enough of a grown up to just own it. Now, that is all I'm going to say on the subject, before this devolves into something directly political.

Yeah. Painting the symbol on the miniature does not make someone a neo-nazi. After all, not everyone who plays Axis in historical war-games is a nazi! It's how dude acted in response to being called on it that's an issue.

Anyway…

SO HOW ABOUT THAT WYSIWYG HUH

Well, if what you see is Nazis...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm sorry but I don't see that much a resemblance. What's the original symbol look like again?

Speaking of disingenuous, here's Slayer-Fan who is now *mysteriously* incapable of basic research on anything that doesn't confirm their biases... what a surprise

Hint: try a GIS for "ss totenkopf" like any default-functional person would.

I don't specialize in WW2 Nazi images nor do I really look at the drama behind paint jobs in tournaments (as I only look at the results of the tournaments and how well those armies are painted), so excuse me for pleading a little bit of ignorance on that. I instead am metaphorically a middle aged man that knows a little more about the American Civil War instead.
However if the image is really that alike I will go ahead and do a comparison on my lunch break.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay so I went to the work restroom and googled it. That's a wee bit too similar I'll have to agree with you on that. To be honest I thought it was just a badly painted Skull LOL

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I don't specialize in WW2 Nazi images nor do I really look at the drama behind paint jobs in tournaments (as I only look at the results of the tournaments and how well those armies are painted), so excuse me for pleading a little bit of ignorance on that. I instead am metaphorically a middle aged man that knows a little more about the American Civil War instead.
However if the image is really that alike I will go ahead and do a comparison on my lunch break.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay so I went to the work restroom and googled it. That's a wee bit too similar I'll have to agree with you on that. To be honest I thought it was just a badly painted Skull LOL

Yeah, so.

When one's playing a game that's kind of (read: massively) drawing on fascist tropes to hint at how awful the protagonists are, it's so very worth checking into the actual history of fascism the setting's drawing on, so as to understand the whole of the opus...

I don't play WW II games because of all the plausible-deniablity fash wankboys that make the Peep Show sketch seem positively nuanced as a portrayal.

The US scene has the advantage of distance, it should not be granted the advantage of willful ignorance given that state's critical role in granting safe(ish) haven to (some) refugees when European powers shat that particular bed.

Catulle wrote:

I don't play WW II games because of all the plausible-deniablity fash wankboys that make the Peep Show sketch seem positively nuanced as a portrayal.

Did you ever see the episode of Peep Show where Mark accidentally befriends a huge racist and he first starts suspecting it at a WW2 re-enactment?


In nazi uniforms:

"I'm just saying, England for the English! Is that really so awful a thing to want???"
"Don't you mean… Germany for… the…uh… Germans?"

I would like to revise my earlier position. I still think the rules should be a friendly agreement, but If you want to play open, we are just playing toys at the end of the day. This isn't scored, and it's rarely for money, so go for it.

EDIT: Full disclosure, I play one of the weaker factions (Custodes non FW) so I most likely care more about socializing with another human than I do scoring phat points. That and the charge phase. Love that phase.

Catulle wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I don't specialize in WW2 Nazi images nor do I really look at the drama behind paint jobs in tournaments (as I only look at the results of the tournaments and how well those armies are painted), so excuse me for pleading a little bit of ignorance on that. I instead am metaphorically a middle aged man that knows a little more about the American Civil War instead.
However if the image is really that alike I will go ahead and do a comparison on my lunch break.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay so I went to the work restroom and googled it. That's a wee bit too similar I'll have to agree with you on that. To be honest I thought it was just a badly painted Skull LOL

Yeah, so.

When one's playing a game that's kind of (read: massively) drawing on fascist tropes to hint at how awful the protagonists are, it's so very worth checking into the actual history of fascism the setting's drawing on, so as to understand the whole of the opus...

I don't play WW II games because of all the plausible-deniablity fash wankboys that make the Peep Show sketch seem positively nuanced as a portrayal.

The US scene has the advantage of distance, it should not be granted the advantage of willful ignorance given that state's critical role in granting safe(ish) haven to (some) refugees when European powers shat that particular bed.

Quite frankly I think most people would've said it was just a badly painted smiley skull. Was it pure coincidence or actual...support somehow for nazi ideals I don't really know, nor do any of us.

All that said, that's a bizarre reason not to play WW2 games as none of them have you really play nazis outside the tabletop games. With tabletop games that's definitely a whole different conversation.

Enough of the Nazi tangent, this thread is about WYSIWYG in 40k and not Bolt Action...

Out of sincere curiosity, and a desire to move things away from That Knight, how does everyone in this thread with pro-WYSIWYG views feel about improvised scenery? Like, using beer cans as "atmospheric treatment gas canisters", or spare codexes and books from other games as "hills" or "temples", that kind of thing, and how it interacts with modelling?

I'm using tall iced tea cans for AT scenery, I have drinking straws for pipelines too but I missed my spray priming window. We used random bits of stuff for scenery when we started out but gaming on a real neoprene mat with actual terrain is pretty fun.