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I know that tyranids do not really like to fight demons because it is a pure loss of biomass, but we know that the Doom of Malan'tai could eat the souls of the Eldar. Soooo, can tyranids simply eat psychic energy? If so, can they simply eat the essence of demons? May even kill them forever

Well, we know from an old White Dwarf story that Kroot can eat Daemons and become possessed, so it's more than likely that Tyranids can.

Daemons have physical presence, so they should be able to eat them. Being Tyranids, they can probably even digest them, but as they “disolve” back into the warp they probably lose any energy that wasn’t already used.

Though, Nids might be able to digest warp energy. They have Psykers, so... maybe?

darkoms wrote:
I know that tyranids do not really like to fight demons because it is a pure loss of biomass, but we know that the Doom of Malan'tai could eat the souls of the Eldar. Soooo, can tyranids simply eat psychic energy? If so, can they simply eat the essence of demons? May even kill them forever

The answer is no.

Codex tyranids 8th edition:

"The raw matter of Chaos is anathema to the Tyranids, for it is inconstant and ethereal, possessing none of the nourishment that the hive fleets require to sate their endless hunger. Thus, the Tyranids – when possible – avoid areas plagued by warp storms and daemonic activity. As the impure essence of the immaterium pours into realspace across the galaxy, this is becoming increasingly difficult. Vital resources are being denied to the hive fleets as entire sectors are consumed by Chaos, and the Hive Mind has been forced to react to a looming catastrophe.."

The Nids have energy sources well beyond what biomass can provide. You don't travel between solar systems on the calorie content of fat and muscle. They need biomass to grow more Nids.

The Tyranid fluff doesn't make any sense. Might as well just suppose they either eat them or, as in the case of Hivefleet Kronos, get involved with pest control.

To quote the mighty Penny Arcade, you can eat lots of things that aren't food

Nurglitch wrote:
The Tyranid fluff doesn't make any sense.

What is not making any sense?

 John Prins wrote:
You don't travel between solar systems on the calorie content of fat and muscle.

They actually do for the final part the journey.

 John Prins wrote:
The Nids have energy sources well beyond what biomass can provide.

They use the gravitaitonal pull of a targeted planet as "fuel" when travelling interstellar.

I know what you are hinting at, but the tyranids simply have no way of utilising demonic energies. The 6th and 8th edition codex are pretty clear on this.

 Andersp90 wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:
The Tyranid fluff doesn't make any sense.

What is not making any sense?

Tyranid biology, technology, psychology, and teleology.

 greatbigtree wrote:
Daemons have physical presence, so they should be able to eat them. Being Tyranids, they can probably even digest them, but as they “disolve” back into the warp they probably lose any energy that wasn’t already used.

Though, Nids might be able to digest warp energy. They have Psykers, so... maybe?

Daemons are the lacroix of Nid consumables.

Nurglitch wrote:

 Andersp90 wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:
The Tyranid fluff doesn't make any sense.

What is not making any sense?

Tyranid biology, technology, psychology, and teleology.

I think GW is doing ok.

I think we have to use a certain amount of handwavium when it comes to tyranid logistics. Even if a given bioship was basically in hibernation during space travel to cut down on energy expenditure, and even if it was basically digesting parts of itself during the trip to produce more energy, I'm pretty sure it would still use up a ton of energy on whatever minor internal processes are required to keep it alive for years or decades at a time between fights and planet munching.

And that's before you think too hard about the amount of energy it might use to propel a "bone missile" at sufficient velocity to penetrate an imperial ship's hull during a void fight. Or the energy it would have to expend to start creating organisms for a planetary invasion.

And that's for a single bioship. The way hive fleets are described, I've always had the impression that the raw volume of space occupied by an invading hive fleet tendril is greater than the volume of the planet they're trying to eat.

Imagine, if you will, a football team spending hours and hours on a bus without food, playing an exhausting game against their opponent, splitting a pizza a couple dozen different ways, and then havingnothing but that tiny chunk of sandwich to eat as you get back on the bus and prepare to repeat the cycle. You're probably spending a lot more energy than that chunk of sandwich is giving you, is what I'm saying.

So I usually just try not to think about it too hard, and when I fail at that, I just assume that there's some sort of hyper-efficient digestion or transmute-gravity-into-food nonsense that somehow allows the hive fleet to actually utilize more calories than it absorbs.

Wyldhunt wrote:

And that's for a single bioship. The way hive fleets are described, I've always had the impression that the raw volume of space occupied by an invading hive fleet tendril is greater than the volume of the planet they're trying to eat.

If you mean volume of planet < volume of tyranids, then no. Far from it.

I just assume that there's some sort of hyper-efficient digestion or transmute-gravity-into-food nonsense that somehow allows the hive fleet to actually utilize more calories than it absorbs.

They could "refuel" by using the local sun/s after invading. Not that there is any proof of that yet.

They could also absorb any interstellar material they pass through?

The real problem with the Tyranids is how hiveships avoid overheating. A living organism that big in the hard vacuum of space (which is an excellent insulator) should have a core temperature hot enough to melt metal...

But 40K isn't a sci-fi setting, really, but a fantasy setting with spaceships and laser guns like a grimdark version of Spelljammer. Even the Laws of Thermodynamics clearly do not operate in 40K (the existence of the Warp makes an utter nonsense of them). So the Tyranids work because space magic, basically. It's pointless trying to make anything in 40K work with real science rules.

 Duskweaver wrote:
The real problem with the Tyranids is how hiveships avoid overheating. A living organism that big in the hard vacuum of space (which is an excellent insulator) should have a core temperature hot enough to melt metal...

Although the flipside of that is if they can recapture and reuse all that heat they can conserve energy overall.

 Desubot wrote:

Daemons are the lacroix of Nid consumables.

Well played.

Didn't one hive fleet starve to death while traveling through the galaxy?

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Didn't one hive fleet starve to death while traveling through the galaxy?

No.

 Andersp90 wrote:
"The raw matter of Chaos is anathema to the Tyranids, for it is inconstant and ethereal, possessing none of the nourishment that the hive fleets require to sate their endless hunger. Thus, the Tyranids – when possible – avoid areas plagued by warp storms and daemonic activity. As the impure essence of the immaterium pours into realspace across the galaxy, this is becoming increasingly difficult. Vital resources are being denied to the hive fleets as entire sectors are consumed by Chaos, and the Hive Mind has been forced to react to a looming catastrophe.."

Which is pretty dumb, as matter possessed by a daemon used to be regular matter. After daemon is driven out, it should revert back to human/xeno/CSM body and be perfectly edible. Especially seeing Doom can eat eldar souls, so there should be really no issue in other Tyranid psykers being able to absorb weaker daemons.

In fact, Tyranids being able to eat possessed matter makes far more sense than colossal stupidity that is Octarius war (which should be constantly making both sides weaker, not stronger, as biomatter is vaporized and biggest orks are being killed off leaving only leftovers on both sides).

Since daemon disolve into raw Warp stuff and evaporate into nothingness, Tyranids cannot draw nutriants or genetical information out of eating daemons. Though if by eating you mean ptting them in their mouth and chewing them to death, then yes they can.

While normal Tyranids cannot eat daemons it's not impossible or implausible for the Hive Mind to develop a sort of Tyranid that can feed on psychic energy like the one the daemons are made off. The Doom of Malan'tai was an example of a Tyranid that feeds of psychic energy. It's a question of time before GW releases another soul eating/daemon eating Tyranid species. Did they already had their Psychic Awakening release?

Individual tyranids don't even have full digestive tracts. The feeder organisms just pack in organic material and then drag their bloated masses into digestion pits so the hive ships can suck up the nutrient rich slurry. Deamons wouldn't exist in a physical state long enough to get anywhere near digested.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Duskweaver wrote:
The real problem with the Tyranids is how hiveships avoid overheating. A living organism that big in the hard vacuum of space (which is an excellent insulator) should have a core temperature hot enough to melt metal...

Although the flipside of that is if they can recapture and reuse all that heat they can conserve energy overall.

You can't just "use" heat like it's fuel. Not without breaking the laws of thermodynamics anyways. The way tyranids seem to eat everything and not leave waste behind is equally impossible, for the same reasons. It's like their digestive system is capable of breaking down matter into pure energy. Tyranid stomachs somehow use anti-matter instead of acid, I guess?

40k isn't hard sci-fi and tyranids are one of the least scientific things in the setting. Better to look at it as fantasy and have fun with the space locusts instead of wondering how that race actually works.

I wouldn't say how scientific W40k is. GW avoids explaining any details and there are supernatural elements like magic, Gods and a multiverse in a form of warp. Do these still make a setting hard sci-fi even if everything in that setting is explained 100% logically? I think we had crossed the line with demons.


GW is one of the most logical settings to be honest. The issue is that community takes a role of a teacher. They try to explain things and then fail, partly because they can't or do not bother to know so much lore and then complain that setting is unrealistic.


No, there is no IF with tyranids consuming demons. On death demons simply disappear. This phenomena can vary as warp is ever so unpredictable. For example, in one audio drama, demons had stonified. They became scary, uncanny and disturbing looking statues as warp storms resided and planet had returned into normality. Now, can Tyranids NOM NOM stone?

As for any other form of demonic entities, answer is yes. After demon leaves the host, its flesh is still technically meat. Just like damaged demon engine bleeds out its demon host and converts into just mere wreckage. Though, you still do not want to eat this flesh. In lore, kroot who consumed such flesh had predictable consequences. Logically, even for Tyranids, eating warp mutated flesh would be like eating concentrated cancer. It is like eating chips and french fries for us, but imagine that one bite is equal of eating this food for a decade straight.

 Irbis wrote:

Which is pretty dumb, as matter possessed by a daemon used to be regular matter.

I dont se why they shouldent be able to do that. They cant feed on pure demons. Thats the point.

 Irbis wrote:
Especially seeing Doom can eat eldar souls, so there should be really no issue in other Tyranid psykers being able to absorb weaker daemons.

The doom did not literally eat the souls of the eldar. It was able to absorb their souls/physic energy and then use it offensively. That wont help the tyranids multiply.

 Tiennos wrote:

You can't just "use" heat like it's fuel. Not without breaking the laws of thermodynamics anyways.

They could use the heat to drive different endothermic processes.

 Tiennos wrote:
The way tyranids seem to eat everything and not leave waste behind is equally impossible, for the same reasons. It's like their digestive system is capable of breaking down matter into pure energy.

The tyranids do leave waste behind, like capillary towers, their "in-system" engines run on "biofuel", their pods use gas for vectoring in space etc.

tyranids are one of the least scientific things in the setting.

That is simply not true.

 Andersp90 wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:

 Andersp90 wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:
The Tyranid fluff doesn't make any sense.

What is not making any sense?

Tyranid biology, technology, psychology, and teleology.

I think GW is doing ok.

GW is doing fine. It's possibly a feature rather than a bug. Nonetheless, it's nonsensical and one of the few areas where I'm content to imagine something else entirely.

 Tiennos wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Duskweaver wrote:
The real problem with the Tyranids is how hiveships avoid overheating. A living organism that big in the hard vacuum of space (which is an excellent insulator) should have a core temperature hot enough to melt metal...

Although the flipside of that is if they can recapture and reuse all that heat they can conserve energy overall.

You can't just "use" heat like it's fuel. Not without breaking the laws of thermodynamics anyways. The way tyranids seem to eat everything and not leave waste behind is equally impossible, for the same reasons. It's like their digestive system is capable of breaking down matter into pure energy. Tyranid stomachs somehow use anti-matter instead of acid, I guess?

40k isn't hard sci-fi and tyranids are one of the least scientific things in the setting. Better to look at it as fantasy and have fun with the space locusts instead of wondering how that race actually works.

Your gut converts matter into energy. Some power plants use heat to make electricity. Your refrigerator uses energy to cool things down.

You poop. Plants grow using your poop as fertilizer. Then you eat the plants and poop again. Energy is lost, but replenished by the sun. All Tyranids need to keep their ecosystem going is an energy source. Could be starlight, could be planet-burgers, could be that some hive ships have biological fusion reactors. Probably it's all of the above.

Yes, but like when eating Chinese food they just get hungry again an hour later.

Nurglitch wrote:
Nonetheless, it's nonsensical..

I personally find the tyranid lore quite logical compared to the rest of the setting.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Yes, but like when eating Chinese food they just get hungry again an hour later.

That should be added to the lore.

 Insectum7 wrote:


You poop. Plants grow using your poop as fertilizer. Then you eat the plants and poop again. Energy is lost, but replenished by the sun. All Tyranids need to keep their ecosystem going is an energy source. Could be starlight, could be planet-burgers, could be that some hive ships have biological fusion reactors. Probably it's all of the above.

The problem is a quote from the 6th edition codex:

"The tyranids need an endless supply of food, not only to nourish the hive fleets, but to grow new organisms"

If they had the ability harvest the light of stars to drive their biological processes, they would only need biomass for bricks, not nurishment.

^Ehhh, I'd just ignore that quote or find a better way for it to work contextually.

Imo Tyranids are best thought of as an entire self aware ecosystem.

If you expand "food" to mean matter+ energy source and "grow" to mean "expand", it works pretty well I think. Chalk it up to poor word choice.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Tiennos wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Duskweaver wrote:
The real problem with the Tyranids is how hiveships avoid overheating. A living organism that big in the hard vacuum of space (which is an excellent insulator) should have a core temperature hot enough to melt metal...

Although the flipside of that is if they can recapture and reuse all that heat they can conserve energy overall.

You can't just "use" heat like it's fuel. Not without breaking the laws of thermodynamics anyways. The way tyranids seem to eat everything and not leave waste behind is equally impossible, for the same reasons. It's like their digestive system is capable of breaking down matter into pure energy. Tyranid stomachs somehow use anti-matter instead of acid, I guess?

40k isn't hard sci-fi and tyranids are one of the least scientific things in the setting. Better to look at it as fantasy and have fun with the space locusts instead of wondering how that race actually works.

Your gut converts matter into energy. Some power plants use heat to make electricity. Your refrigerator uses energy to cool things down.

You poop. Plants grow using your poop as fertilizer. Then you eat the plants and poop again. Energy is lost, but replenished by the sun. All Tyranids need to keep their ecosystem going is an energy source. Could be starlight, could be planet-burgers, could be that some hive ships have biological fusion reactors. Probably it's all of the above.

"Biological fusion reactors" might be one of the best explanation for how they produce enough energy to function and it's already ridiculously far-fetched. How do they use all that energy anyways? You can only go so far with chemical reactions. Do they manipulate energy on a fundamental level to create what matter they need, one subatomic particle at a time?

If their control of matter and energy was that advanced, they could just eat stars. Those contain all of the elements you'd get from biomass and then some. They could even use their ships' "gravity muscles" to drink them from a distance instead of bothering with the piddly energy contained on inhabited worlds.