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Some small company makes mistake, mob gathers with pitchforks and torches...GW does it over and over again...people throw more money at them, that will show em!
If you dont protect your trademark, regardless of how or where it was obtained, it becomes genericised and worthless, Selotape and Hoover are good examples of generic, or perhaps cheapened, trademarks.
That YouTube only provides one free mechanism to deal with content violations is hardly the defenders fault.
Fictional wrote: If you dont protect your trademark, regardless of how or where it was obtained, it becomes genericised and worthless, Selotape and Hoover are good examples of generic, or perhaps cheapened, trademarks.
That YouTube only provides one free mechanism to deal with content violations is hardly the defenders fault.
It wasn't theirs to trademark, regardless. "Color Shift" is a common term, has been for decades. None of this automated strike system would have been a factor without it.
You apologists are the reason this will continue to be a problem, and i don't say that will any malice.
If it costs these companies nothing for behavior like this they will continue to do it, and we as a community would deserve it, look at what YouTube has become.
It wasn't theirs to trademark, regardless. "Color Shift" is a common term, has been for decades. None of this automated strike system would have been a factor without it.
You apologists are the reason this will continue to be a problem, and i don't say that will any malice.
If it costs these companies nothing for behavior like this they will continue to do it, and we as a community would deserve it, look at what YouTube has become.
The government of Spain clearly disagrees in the field of acrylic paints; you're free to believe that is a matter of ignorance on the part of the trademark office in Spain, as most evidence would support such an opinion, but they are the ones who approved the trademark. However, as the government that is directly over both GSW and Vallejo, theirs will be the prevailing opinion. If a government chooses to grant a trademark and the other companies in the field can not/do not contest it, then it is a valid mark regardless of personal feelings of the uniqueness of the mark.
Now, GSW failed miserably in using a copyright system to exert trademark claims when those are two distinct legal concepts for reason, even if most people don't really grasp that reality. Further, there was actual harm done to the YouTuber, however fleeting, as copyright strikes affect monetization and YouTube has a checkered past when it comes to reverting such things. So there is certainly, at best, some gross incompetence on the part of GSW in this matter. However, to say a company should be shuttered for a mistake that it has undertaken steps to remedy is just histrionics.
It's a bit petty for Green Stuff World to trademark a name that is commonly used in the field, especially for a company with that name... Their following reaction to the YouTube video is completely overblown and factually wrong. Thankfully, they have taken quick action to reverse their decision, and appear to have realised this was a mistake (and not just from a PR point of view). In addition to the financial harm this could have caused the YouTuber, I imagine this must be rather stressful. At least the resulting situation has led to new people discovering the channel, which is at least something positive. To an extent, the situation for Vallejo isn't too bad either. While they had to rebrand their product line, I didn't know they had launched a colour shifting range, and now I do. Again, decent publicity. And their competitor made itself look bad, which can't hurt Vallejo either. All in all, things should be ok now. Will I continue to buy from GSW? Sure, if they don't pull something like this again. But the next colour shift paint I'll get will be from Vallejo.
Monkeysloth wrote: This is such a nothingburger of a story as GSW made a mistake, owned up to it and not a Youtuber no one has heard of had lots of free marketing.
I'm surprised this story popped up on Dakka so late as it's already a dead story and several of hobby groups/sites I'm in have banned any further discussion about as people keep trying to make it a fight over copyright laws (which this is trademark so it's a dumb fight) and white knights who've decided a small company should be run out of business for making a mistake (but no mention on how the Gorilla in the hobby couldn't do a simple trademark search before launching their line).
As far as I know, GSW released their line on december. When was Vallejo's released?
EDIT: Nope, looking further, it looks like GSW's chameleon paint sets were released Q1 2019.
Green Stuff World released them early 2018 (maybe late '17). However, they supposedly only tried to get the trademark when Vallejo launched or planned to launch a competing range. There are news articles about Vallejo's range from early October, and according to the circulating letter from Vallejo the trademark was in force only from the 31st of October. So, no need to blame Vallejo for being unaware of the trademark, as it simply did not exist.
Further information has surfaced that hints towards GSW having an established history of patent theft (morally if not legally) and bullying individuals and other companies.
Statement by Tabletop Workshop (English transcript, copypasted without permission)
Da YouTube nur eine begrenzte Textmenge in der Videobeschreibung zulässt, hier der übersetze Text zum #GreenStuffWorld-Video ---- Since YouTube only allows a limited amount of text in the video description, here is the translated text for the Green Stuff World video.
Hello and welcome to an exceptionally serious #TWS video. Because at the end of December 2019 and the beginning of January 2020, a few things happened which finally caused me as channel operator to permanently delete certain videos in my channel.
Therefore I would like to inform you about 3 things in the following minutes:
- First: A brief summary of the events surrounding the Canadian YouTube channel Sword 'n' Steele, against which the Spanish company Green Stuff World had briefly taken action.
Secondly, and this is also the most important point: to illustrate with a few examples how the Spanish company Green Stuff World has partly acted in recent years.
Thirdly: That I will not present, recommend or link any products of Green Stuff World anymore and have removed older videos about this from the TWS archive completely.
Let's start with point 1, current events. On December 28th, 2019, Naomi released a video on her channel Sword 'n' Steele about the Vallejo colors that were released at the end of October 2019 and are now called "The Shifters". Naomi had bought these colours under her original name "Colorshift" and called them "Colorshift" in the video name and showed the original package and bottle designs in the video itself.
About 2 days after publication Naomi's video was taken offline by YouTube and Naomi herself was also given a warning by YouTube - a so-called strike. The off-line strike was at the instigation of the company Green Stuff World, which has held the rights to the name "Colorshift" as a brand name for Spain since October 31st, 2019, and wanted to protect its trademark rights in this way. Color manufacturer Vallejo had - as just mentioned - already renamed these colors to "The Shifters", but unfortunately Naomi didn't know about this.
So Naomi first contacted YouTube and was given the company Green Stuff World as her direct contact for possible clarification. Naomi immediately wrote to Green Stuff World and after a short correspondence she received the promise that Green Stuff World would contact YouTube to avert the damage caused to Naomi.
Fortunately, this was possible within a day and Naomi's original video was also back online with a new title and modified thumbnail. On December 31st, 2019, Naomi had also uploaded a specially censored version. And in another video from December 30th, 2019, Naomi describes the whole process from her perspective. All these 3 videos I have linked above and in the video description.
Let's just briefly summarize:
- Vallejo will release new colors called "Colorshift" at the end of October 2019.
- On October 31st Green Stuff World gets the rights to the brand name "Colorshift" for Spain after a previous application for Spain.
- On December 28th Naomi releases her video and about 2 days later Green Stuff World has Naomi's video blocked via YouTube.
- About one day later Green Stuff World took back almost everything from Naomi.
Regarding the legal dispute between Green Stuff World and Vallejo about the brand name "Colorshift", it has to be added that this name is widely used in the hobby sector and many paint manufacturers use the term "Colorshift" - and this long before Green Stuff World launched their colors on the market. Furthermore, Green Stuff World has registered this brand name only for Spain and not worldwide.
Nevertheless, I personally was initially inclined to see Naomi only as an unfortunate victim in a trademark dispute between Green Stuff World and Vallejo. I also felt it was right that Green Stuff World wanted to protect her registered trademark. Of course it could have been solved differently with Naomi and without a temporary YouTube strike, but at least the matter was quickly resolved. ... However, in the meantime a certain shitstorm had descended on Green Stuff World and the case was intensively discussed on a wide variety of platforms. But whether this has influenced Green Stuff World's decision to give in would be pure speculation in my opinion.
On January 2nd, 2020, I received the following statement on request to Green Stuff World with the following words among others: "...We have been in direct contact with Naomi from Sword 'n' Steele all the time.“
According to Naomi, this is not true, the contact came about only at Naomi's request and after her original video was turned off. "All the time" is not for me.
"We were not really aware of the actions that YouTube would take and the consequences these would have. We thought there would simply be a warning so then we could talk.“
The contact to Naomi could have been sought before and directly. For example via her Facebook page or via the e-mail in her YouTube imprint.
"We are a small family business, this is my hobby and my life, and I am very proud of what has been achieved after many years of hard work, and it hurts me deeply that in a matter of hours, hundreds of people are destroying it. For all this, because the damage to the Sword 'n' Steele channel has been corrected and it was never intended, I would like to ask you please help to returns this situation to normal and stop this madness."
After that I was personally inclined for a moment to see Green Stuff World as a victim in the legal dispute with Vallejo ... But while reading the numerous comments on YouTube, Facebook and the news portal http://brueckenkopf-online.com I came across a few hints that Green Stuff World is not always so strict about copyright or copyright itself.
Therefore we come now to point 2, the behaviour of Green Stuff World in the past years towards some manufacturers or dealers. I have made some longer telephone calls to get a first-hand description of the following facts:
Between 2010 and 2012 the German modeller Stefan Niehues (https://beesputty.com) developed his so-called "Tube Tool". The basic idea came from experiments with a threaded rod to depict structures on footballers' socks. With his "Tube Tool", he virtually reversed this process to create different structures with grooved plates on modeling pastes. For example for tubes ...
Stefan then sold his "Tube Tool" on his own and from 2013 on also via the German dealers PK-PRO and Battlefield-Berlin, among others.
On 12 March 2014, the owner of Green Stuff World, Israel Soriano Garcia, filed two so-called design patents for modelling tools with the European Union Intellectual Property Office - EUIPO for short - and released the "Roll Maker" tool via his company. This "Roll Maker" tool was an exact 1:1 copy including all dimensions of the "Tube Tool".
But wait! Design patent? What is a design patent?
Wikipedia says about this. "A design patent is an industrial property right that gives its owner an exclusive right to use an aesthetic appearance (shape, colour, form) for certain goods. … ” And very important: "A design right is an unexamined property right. In the registration procedure, the prerequisites of novelty and individual character are not examined, but only formal requirements for registration".
This means that you do not have to be the originator of a product to register this right. Fulfilling certain formalities is enough. The fees for such a registration are also relatively low at about 400-500€ and as luck would have it, both Green Stuff World and the EUIPO are located in the same place: Alicate, Spain.
Following this design registration the following happened. Green Stuff World submitted its design entry to the sales platform eBay, including PK-PRO as the distribution channel for the "Tube Tool". Thus the sale of the "Tube Tool" developed by Stefan Niehues was immediately prohibited there due to copyright infringement.
Of course Stefan turned to Green Stuff World, but neither a reasonable dialogue nor an agreement was reached. As a demonstrable author, Stefan could of course now have gone to court in Alicante, Spain, to enforce his rights. But this would not only have taken several months or even years, but would also have cost several thousand euros in expenses and costs. Even if Stefan himself had previously registered such a design or even applied for a patent. In order to enforce his claims, a lawsuit in Alicate against Green Stuff World would have been necessary in any case.
And all this for an article that initially cost around 20€ and later only 10€, of which Stefan has only sold 750 copies to date. In short: Neither the registration of a design nor a patent would have protected Stefan Niehues from Green Stuff World's action. And a lawsuit abroad would have been out of proportion to the costs and the earnings of his product. But here we are with copyright law and a completely different construction site ...
After Green Stuff World had released their motif punches or leaf punches in July 2016, the German online retailer PKO-PRO decided to include such tools in their product range as well. The inquiry with a Chinese producer showed that in Europe already some customers were supplied with such tools. But the Chinese producer emphasized that he owns a patent on these tools since 2006.
In coordination with PK-PRO, new motifs for the sheets to be punched were then designed, not only to obtain their own products, but also to differentiate themselves from the Green Stuff World punching tools.
At the end of September 2016 PK-PRO officially announced its "PK-Punches" with the help of some photos. The "PK-Punches" were available from October 1st, 2016.
But exactly one day before, on September 30th, 2016, Green Stuff World filed another design application at the European Union Intellectual Property Office. This time, however, the design patent related to the shape of the punches. In other words, not on any sheets that can be punched, but on the haptic shape of the punch, for which the Chinese producer has held a patent since 2006.
Impossible? No, because, as already mentioned, the registration procedure for such a design does NOT examine the requirements of novelty and individual character, but only some formal requirements for registration.
With this design, Green Stuff World shortly afterwards stopped the sales of the "PK-Punches" on eBay and amazon. Because, as already mentioned in the first example, it is completely sufficient on these platforms to assert a claim for copyright infringement or similar. eBay and amazon then blocked the item and, in the worst case, directly the entire marketplace shop of the supplier. Only when the plaintiff - in this case Green Stuff World - withdraws his accusation, would the sales of the PK-Punches have been possible again on eBay. For this, of course, it would have required either a concession or a court case with a verdict.
And as in the first example, such a trial in Alicante, Spain, is associated with considerable costs. In addition, the patent holder of the design applied for by Green Stuff Worlds is the Chinese producer.
What followed, however, were various lawyers' letters between PK-PRO and Green Stuff World for about half a year. Ultimately without result, because at some point Green Stuff World simply stopped contacting us. This cost PK-PRO about 10.000€ in translation and legal fees and of course a lot of time ... Although PK-PRO was able to sell its "PK-Punches" via its own webshop, it could only reach a part of its original customers. And as usual with new releases, the demand for such tools was already covered after half a year had elapsed.
As a reminder again the statement of Green Stuff World published on January 2nd, 2020:
"We are a small family business, this is my hobby and my life, and I am very proud of what has been achieved after many years of hard work..."
Well, I personally got a slightly different impression of the company Green Stuff World during my research. Although Green Stuff World has always remained within the framework of the applicable laws in the cases I researched, I believe that they have consciously taken advantage of the corresponding loopholes in the law and procedures. There is no question that such "hard restraints" are also common in other industries, but legally sound does not automatically mean morally sound. At least for me.
Even the initially very harsh action against Naomi's video, in which a shutdown and warning was issued directly via YouTube, does not fit for me with Green Stuff Worlds' statement: "We would like to apologise again for this serious misunderstanding, for having damaged her channel in some way, and for having made her part of a legal dispute between companies that have nothing to do with her. The shutdown and warning was at the request of Green Stuff World - how could this have been a misunderstanding?
After all these statements, events and my researches I have come to the personal conclusion that I will not buy, use and present any more products from Green Stuff World via the TWS channel and thus recommend and thus advertise you.
I have deleted the two TWS reviews of Green Stuff World - even if one of the videos was the ninth most popular video in the TWS archive. But I gladly accept the loss of views, likes and reach. Furthermore I will remove all links to Green Stuff World from all TWS video descriptions in the next days.
Nevertheless - and I want to emphasize this here - this is my personal opinion and decision. I do not want to call for a shitstorm against or even boycott of Green Stuff World. With this video I only want to show you the result of my research and inform you about backgrounds you might not have had any insight into so far. And so that nobody thinks that I only published this video to get as many YouTube clicks as possible out of the current situation, this video is NOT monetized. That means, no matter how many people watch this video, I don't get one cent of advertising revenue for it.
I also want to avoid any hate comments or further shitstorm against Green Stuff World. Accordingly I have deactivated the comment area below this video and also at my corresponding Facebook postings.
Just take your time to form your own opinion ... and if you want to continue shopping at Green Stuff World and/or present their products, please do so. I definitely don't want to dictate anything to anyone or impose my opinion.
So, that's it from my side regarding Green Stuff World. I hope to see you again next Friday for a more pleasant hobby topic ... See you!
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
lord_blackfang wrote: Further information has surfaced that hints towards GSW having an established history of patent theft (morally if not legally) and bullying individuals and other companies.
Statement by Tabletop Workshop (English transcript, copypasted without permission)
Da YouTube nur eine begrenzte Textmenge in der Videobeschreibung zulässt, hier der übersetze Text zum #GreenStuffWorld-Video ---- Since YouTube only allows a limited amount of text in the video description, here is the translated text for the Green Stuff World video.
Hello and welcome to an exceptionally serious #TWS video. Because at the end of December 2019 and the beginning of January 2020, a few things happened which finally caused me as channel operator to permanently delete certain videos in my channel.
Therefore I would like to inform you about 3 things in the following minutes:
- First: A brief summary of the events surrounding the Canadian YouTube channel Sword 'n' Steele, against which the Spanish company Green Stuff World had briefly taken action.
Secondly, and this is also the most important point: to illustrate with a few examples how the Spanish company Green Stuff World has partly acted in recent years.
Thirdly: That I will not present, recommend or link any products of Green Stuff World anymore and have removed older videos about this from the TWS archive completely.
Let's start with point 1, current events. On December 28th, 2019, Naomi released a video on her channel Sword 'n' Steele about the Vallejo colors that were released at the end of October 2019 and are now called "The Shifters". Naomi had bought these colours under her original name "Colorshift" and called them "Colorshift" in the video name and showed the original package and bottle designs in the video itself.
About 2 days after publication Naomi's video was taken offline by YouTube and Naomi herself was also given a warning by YouTube - a so-called strike. The off-line strike was at the instigation of the company Green Stuff World, which has held the rights to the name "Colorshift" as a brand name for Spain since October 31st, 2019, and wanted to protect its trademark rights in this way. Color manufacturer Vallejo had - as just mentioned - already renamed these colors to "The Shifters", but unfortunately Naomi didn't know about this.
So Naomi first contacted YouTube and was given the company Green Stuff World as her direct contact for possible clarification. Naomi immediately wrote to Green Stuff World and after a short correspondence she received the promise that Green Stuff World would contact YouTube to avert the damage caused to Naomi.
Fortunately, this was possible within a day and Naomi's original video was also back online with a new title and modified thumbnail. On December 31st, 2019, Naomi had also uploaded a specially censored version. And in another video from December 30th, 2019, Naomi describes the whole process from her perspective. All these 3 videos I have linked above and in the video description.
Let's just briefly summarize:
- Vallejo will release new colors called "Colorshift" at the end of October 2019.
- On October 31st Green Stuff World gets the rights to the brand name "Colorshift" for Spain after a previous application for Spain.
- On December 28th Naomi releases her video and about 2 days later Green Stuff World has Naomi's video blocked via YouTube.
- About one day later Green Stuff World took back almost everything from Naomi.
Regarding the legal dispute between Green Stuff World and Vallejo about the brand name "Colorshift", it has to be added that this name is widely used in the hobby sector and many paint manufacturers use the term "Colorshift" - and this long before Green Stuff World launched their colors on the market. Furthermore, Green Stuff World has registered this brand name only for Spain and not worldwide.
Nevertheless, I personally was initially inclined to see Naomi only as an unfortunate victim in a trademark dispute between Green Stuff World and Vallejo. I also felt it was right that Green Stuff World wanted to protect her registered trademark. Of course it could have been solved differently with Naomi and without a temporary YouTube strike, but at least the matter was quickly resolved. ... However, in the meantime a certain shitstorm had descended on Green Stuff World and the case was intensively discussed on a wide variety of platforms. But whether this has influenced Green Stuff World's decision to give in would be pure speculation in my opinion.
On January 2nd, 2020, I received the following statement on request to Green Stuff World with the following words among others: "...We have been in direct contact with Naomi from Sword 'n' Steele all the time.“
According to Naomi, this is not true, the contact came about only at Naomi's request and after her original video was turned off. "All the time" is not for me.
"We were not really aware of the actions that YouTube would take and the consequences these would have. We thought there would simply be a warning so then we could talk.“
The contact to Naomi could have been sought before and directly. For example via her Facebook page or via the e-mail in her YouTube imprint.
"We are a small family business, this is my hobby and my life, and I am very proud of what has been achieved after many years of hard work, and it hurts me deeply that in a matter of hours, hundreds of people are destroying it. For all this, because the damage to the Sword 'n' Steele channel has been corrected and it was never intended, I would like to ask you please help to returns this situation to normal and stop this madness."
After that I was personally inclined for a moment to see Green Stuff World as a victim in the legal dispute with Vallejo ... But while reading the numerous comments on YouTube, Facebook and the news portal http://brueckenkopf-online.com I came across a few hints that Green Stuff World is not always so strict about copyright or copyright itself.
Therefore we come now to point 2, the behaviour of Green Stuff World in the past years towards some manufacturers or dealers. I have made some longer telephone calls to get a first-hand description of the following facts:
Between 2010 and 2012 the German modeller Stefan Niehues (https://beesputty.com) developed his so-called "Tube Tool". The basic idea came from experiments with a threaded rod to depict structures on footballers' socks. With his "Tube Tool", he virtually reversed this process to create different structures with grooved plates on modeling pastes. For example for tubes ...
Stefan then sold his "Tube Tool" on his own and from 2013 on also via the German dealers PK-PRO and Battlefield-Berlin, among others.
On 12 March 2014, the owner of Green Stuff World, Israel Soriano Garcia, filed two so-called design patents for modelling tools with the European Union Intellectual Property Office - EUIPO for short - and released the "Roll Maker" tool via his company. This "Roll Maker" tool was an exact 1:1 copy including all dimensions of the "Tube Tool".
But wait! Design patent? What is a design patent?
Wikipedia says about this. "A design patent is an industrial property right that gives its owner an exclusive right to use an aesthetic appearance (shape, colour, form) for certain goods. … ” And very important: "A design right is an unexamined property right. In the registration procedure, the prerequisites of novelty and individual character are not examined, but only formal requirements for registration".
This means that you do not have to be the originator of a product to register this right. Fulfilling certain formalities is enough. The fees for such a registration are also relatively low at about 400-500€ and as luck would have it, both Green Stuff World and the EUIPO are located in the same place: Alicate, Spain.
Following this design registration the following happened. Green Stuff World submitted its design entry to the sales platform eBay, including PK-PRO as the distribution channel for the "Tube Tool". Thus the sale of the "Tube Tool" developed by Stefan Niehues was immediately prohibited there due to copyright infringement.
Of course Stefan turned to Green Stuff World, but neither a reasonable dialogue nor an agreement was reached. As a demonstrable author, Stefan could of course now have gone to court in Alicante, Spain, to enforce his rights. But this would not only have taken several months or even years, but would also have cost several thousand euros in expenses and costs. Even if Stefan himself had previously registered such a design or even applied for a patent. In order to enforce his claims, a lawsuit in Alicate against Green Stuff World would have been necessary in any case.
And all this for an article that initially cost around 20€ and later only 10€, of which Stefan has only sold 750 copies to date. In short: Neither the registration of a design nor a patent would have protected Stefan Niehues from Green Stuff World's action. And a lawsuit abroad would have been out of proportion to the costs and the earnings of his product. But here we are with copyright law and a completely different construction site ...
After Green Stuff World had released their motif punches or leaf punches in July 2016, the German online retailer PKO-PRO decided to include such tools in their product range as well. The inquiry with a Chinese producer showed that in Europe already some customers were supplied with such tools. But the Chinese producer emphasized that he owns a patent on these tools since 2006.
In coordination with PK-PRO, new motifs for the sheets to be punched were then designed, not only to obtain their own products, but also to differentiate themselves from the Green Stuff World punching tools.
At the end of September 2016 PK-PRO officially announced its "PK-Punches" with the help of some photos. The "PK-Punches" were available from October 1st, 2016.
But exactly one day before, on September 30th, 2016, Green Stuff World filed another design application at the European Union Intellectual Property Office. This time, however, the design patent related to the shape of the punches. In other words, not on any sheets that can be punched, but on the haptic shape of the punch, for which the Chinese producer has held a patent since 2006.
Impossible? No, because, as already mentioned, the registration procedure for such a design does NOT examine the requirements of novelty and individual character, but only some formal requirements for registration.
With this design, Green Stuff World shortly afterwards stopped the sales of the "PK-Punches" on eBay and amazon. Because, as already mentioned in the first example, it is completely sufficient on these platforms to assert a claim for copyright infringement or similar. eBay and amazon then blocked the item and, in the worst case, directly the entire marketplace shop of the supplier. Only when the plaintiff - in this case Green Stuff World - withdraws his accusation, would the sales of the PK-Punches have been possible again on eBay. For this, of course, it would have required either a concession or a court case with a verdict.
And as in the first example, such a trial in Alicante, Spain, is associated with considerable costs. In addition, the patent holder of the design applied for by Green Stuff Worlds is the Chinese producer.
What followed, however, were various lawyers' letters between PK-PRO and Green Stuff World for about half a year. Ultimately without result, because at some point Green Stuff World simply stopped contacting us. This cost PK-PRO about 10.000€ in translation and legal fees and of course a lot of time ... Although PK-PRO was able to sell its "PK-Punches" via its own webshop, it could only reach a part of its original customers. And as usual with new releases, the demand for such tools was already covered after half a year had elapsed.
As a reminder again the statement of Green Stuff World published on January 2nd, 2020:
"We are a small family business, this is my hobby and my life, and I am very proud of what has been achieved after many years of hard work..."
Well, I personally got a slightly different impression of the company Green Stuff World during my research. Although Green Stuff World has always remained within the framework of the applicable laws in the cases I researched, I believe that they have consciously taken advantage of the corresponding loopholes in the law and procedures. There is no question that such "hard restraints" are also common in other industries, but legally sound does not automatically mean morally sound. At least for me.
Even the initially very harsh action against Naomi's video, in which a shutdown and warning was issued directly via YouTube, does not fit for me with Green Stuff Worlds' statement: "We would like to apologise again for this serious misunderstanding, for having damaged her channel in some way, and for having made her part of a legal dispute between companies that have nothing to do with her. The shutdown and warning was at the request of Green Stuff World - how could this have been a misunderstanding?
After all these statements, events and my researches I have come to the personal conclusion that I will not buy, use and present any more products from Green Stuff World via the TWS channel and thus recommend and thus advertise you.
I have deleted the two TWS reviews of Green Stuff World - even if one of the videos was the ninth most popular video in the TWS archive. But I gladly accept the loss of views, likes and reach. Furthermore I will remove all links to Green Stuff World from all TWS video descriptions in the next days.
Nevertheless - and I want to emphasize this here - this is my personal opinion and decision. I do not want to call for a shitstorm against or even boycott of Green Stuff World. With this video I only want to show you the result of my research and inform you about backgrounds you might not have had any insight into so far. And so that nobody thinks that I only published this video to get as many YouTube clicks as possible out of the current situation, this video is NOT monetized. That means, no matter how many people watch this video, I don't get one cent of advertising revenue for it.
I also want to avoid any hate comments or further shitstorm against Green Stuff World. Accordingly I have deactivated the comment area below this video and also at my corresponding Facebook postings.
Just take your time to form your own opinion ... and if you want to continue shopping at Green Stuff World and/or present their products, please do so. I definitely don't want to dictate anything to anyone or impose my opinion.
So, that's it from my side regarding Green Stuff World. I hope to see you again next Friday for a more pleasant hobby topic ... See you!
Thank you for that informative rundown.
LOL, Theo your mind is an amazing place, never change.-camkierhi 9/19/13
I cant believe theo is right.. damn. -comradepanda 9/26/13
None of the strange ideas we had about you involved your sexual orientation..........-Monkeytroll 12/10/13
I'd put you on ignore for that comment, if I could...Alpharius 2/11/14
Ah so that's what went on with the punches, i'd heard something about GSW being involved in something (allegedly) dubious but never got to hear exactly what it was about as most of it seemed to be going on on non English speaking forums
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/05 20:56:06
lord_blackfang wrote: Further information has surfaced that hints towards GSW having an established history of patent theft (morally if not legally) and bullying individuals and other companies.
Statement by Tabletop Workshop (English transcript, copypasted without permission)
Da YouTube nur eine begrenzte Textmenge in der Videobeschreibung zulässt, hier der übersetze Text zum #GreenStuffWorld-Video ---- Since YouTube only allows a limited amount of text in the video description, here is the translated text for the Green Stuff World video.
Hello and welcome to an exceptionally serious #TWS video. Because at the end of December 2019 and the beginning of January 2020, a few things happened which finally caused me as channel operator to permanently delete certain videos in my channel.
Therefore I would like to inform you about 3 things in the following minutes:
- First: A brief summary of the events surrounding the Canadian YouTube channel Sword 'n' Steele, against which the Spanish company Green Stuff World had briefly taken action.
Secondly, and this is also the most important point: to illustrate with a few examples how the Spanish company Green Stuff World has partly acted in recent years.
Thirdly: That I will not present, recommend or link any products of Green Stuff World anymore and have removed older videos about this from the TWS archive completely.
Let's start with point 1, current events. On December 28th, 2019, Naomi released a video on her channel Sword 'n' Steele about the Vallejo colors that were released at the end of October 2019 and are now called "The Shifters". Naomi had bought these colours under her original name "Colorshift" and called them "Colorshift" in the video name and showed the original package and bottle designs in the video itself.
About 2 days after publication Naomi's video was taken offline by YouTube and Naomi herself was also given a warning by YouTube - a so-called strike. The off-line strike was at the instigation of the company Green Stuff World, which has held the rights to the name "Colorshift" as a brand name for Spain since October 31st, 2019, and wanted to protect its trademark rights in this way. Color manufacturer Vallejo had - as just mentioned - already renamed these colors to "The Shifters", but unfortunately Naomi didn't know about this.
So Naomi first contacted YouTube and was given the company Green Stuff World as her direct contact for possible clarification. Naomi immediately wrote to Green Stuff World and after a short correspondence she received the promise that Green Stuff World would contact YouTube to avert the damage caused to Naomi.
Fortunately, this was possible within a day and Naomi's original video was also back online with a new title and modified thumbnail. On December 31st, 2019, Naomi had also uploaded a specially censored version. And in another video from December 30th, 2019, Naomi describes the whole process from her perspective. All these 3 videos I have linked above and in the video description.
Let's just briefly summarize:
- Vallejo will release new colors called "Colorshift" at the end of October 2019.
- On October 31st Green Stuff World gets the rights to the brand name "Colorshift" for Spain after a previous application for Spain.
- On December 28th Naomi releases her video and about 2 days later Green Stuff World has Naomi's video blocked via YouTube.
- About one day later Green Stuff World took back almost everything from Naomi.
Regarding the legal dispute between Green Stuff World and Vallejo about the brand name "Colorshift", it has to be added that this name is widely used in the hobby sector and many paint manufacturers use the term "Colorshift" - and this long before Green Stuff World launched their colors on the market. Furthermore, Green Stuff World has registered this brand name only for Spain and not worldwide.
Nevertheless, I personally was initially inclined to see Naomi only as an unfortunate victim in a trademark dispute between Green Stuff World and Vallejo. I also felt it was right that Green Stuff World wanted to protect her registered trademark. Of course it could have been solved differently with Naomi and without a temporary YouTube strike, but at least the matter was quickly resolved. ... However, in the meantime a certain shitstorm had descended on Green Stuff World and the case was intensively discussed on a wide variety of platforms. But whether this has influenced Green Stuff World's decision to give in would be pure speculation in my opinion.
On January 2nd, 2020, I received the following statement on request to Green Stuff World with the following words among others: "...We have been in direct contact with Naomi from Sword 'n' Steele all the time.“
According to Naomi, this is not true, the contact came about only at Naomi's request and after her original video was turned off. "All the time" is not for me.
"We were not really aware of the actions that YouTube would take and the consequences these would have. We thought there would simply be a warning so then we could talk.“
The contact to Naomi could have been sought before and directly. For example via her Facebook page or via the e-mail in her YouTube imprint.
"We are a small family business, this is my hobby and my life, and I am very proud of what has been achieved after many years of hard work, and it hurts me deeply that in a matter of hours, hundreds of people are destroying it. For all this, because the damage to the Sword 'n' Steele channel has been corrected and it was never intended, I would like to ask you please help to returns this situation to normal and stop this madness."
After that I was personally inclined for a moment to see Green Stuff World as a victim in the legal dispute with Vallejo ... But while reading the numerous comments on YouTube, Facebook and the news portal http://brueckenkopf-online.com I came across a few hints that Green Stuff World is not always so strict about copyright or copyright itself.
Therefore we come now to point 2, the behaviour of Green Stuff World in the past years towards some manufacturers or dealers. I have made some longer telephone calls to get a first-hand description of the following facts:
Between 2010 and 2012 the German modeller Stefan Niehues (https://beesputty.com) developed his so-called "Tube Tool". The basic idea came from experiments with a threaded rod to depict structures on footballers' socks. With his "Tube Tool", he virtually reversed this process to create different structures with grooved plates on modeling pastes. For example for tubes ...
Stefan then sold his "Tube Tool" on his own and from 2013 on also via the German dealers PK-PRO and Battlefield-Berlin, among others.
On 12 March 2014, the owner of Green Stuff World, Israel Soriano Garcia, filed two so-called design patents for modelling tools with the European Union Intellectual Property Office - EUIPO for short - and released the "Roll Maker" tool via his company. This "Roll Maker" tool was an exact 1:1 copy including all dimensions of the "Tube Tool".
But wait! Design patent? What is a design patent?
Wikipedia says about this. "A design patent is an industrial property right that gives its owner an exclusive right to use an aesthetic appearance (shape, colour, form) for certain goods. … ” And very important: "A design right is an unexamined property right. In the registration procedure, the prerequisites of novelty and individual character are not examined, but only formal requirements for registration".
This means that you do not have to be the originator of a product to register this right. Fulfilling certain formalities is enough. The fees for such a registration are also relatively low at about 400-500€ and as luck would have it, both Green Stuff World and the EUIPO are located in the same place: Alicate, Spain.
Following this design registration the following happened. Green Stuff World submitted its design entry to the sales platform eBay, including PK-PRO as the distribution channel for the "Tube Tool". Thus the sale of the "Tube Tool" developed by Stefan Niehues was immediately prohibited there due to copyright infringement.
Of course Stefan turned to Green Stuff World, but neither a reasonable dialogue nor an agreement was reached. As a demonstrable author, Stefan could of course now have gone to court in Alicante, Spain, to enforce his rights. But this would not only have taken several months or even years, but would also have cost several thousand euros in expenses and costs. Even if Stefan himself had previously registered such a design or even applied for a patent. In order to enforce his claims, a lawsuit in Alicate against Green Stuff World would have been necessary in any case.
And all this for an article that initially cost around 20€ and later only 10€, of which Stefan has only sold 750 copies to date. In short: Neither the registration of a design nor a patent would have protected Stefan Niehues from Green Stuff World's action. And a lawsuit abroad would have been out of proportion to the costs and the earnings of his product. But here we are with copyright law and a completely different construction site ...
After Green Stuff World had released their motif punches or leaf punches in July 2016, the German online retailer PKO-PRO decided to include such tools in their product range as well. The inquiry with a Chinese producer showed that in Europe already some customers were supplied with such tools. But the Chinese producer emphasized that he owns a patent on these tools since 2006.
In coordination with PK-PRO, new motifs for the sheets to be punched were then designed, not only to obtain their own products, but also to differentiate themselves from the Green Stuff World punching tools.
At the end of September 2016 PK-PRO officially announced its "PK-Punches" with the help of some photos. The "PK-Punches" were available from October 1st, 2016.
But exactly one day before, on September 30th, 2016, Green Stuff World filed another design application at the European Union Intellectual Property Office. This time, however, the design patent related to the shape of the punches. In other words, not on any sheets that can be punched, but on the haptic shape of the punch, for which the Chinese producer has held a patent since 2006.
Impossible? No, because, as already mentioned, the registration procedure for such a design does NOT examine the requirements of novelty and individual character, but only some formal requirements for registration.
With this design, Green Stuff World shortly afterwards stopped the sales of the "PK-Punches" on eBay and amazon. Because, as already mentioned in the first example, it is completely sufficient on these platforms to assert a claim for copyright infringement or similar. eBay and amazon then blocked the item and, in the worst case, directly the entire marketplace shop of the supplier. Only when the plaintiff - in this case Green Stuff World - withdraws his accusation, would the sales of the PK-Punches have been possible again on eBay. For this, of course, it would have required either a concession or a court case with a verdict.
And as in the first example, such a trial in Alicante, Spain, is associated with considerable costs. In addition, the patent holder of the design applied for by Green Stuff Worlds is the Chinese producer.
What followed, however, were various lawyers' letters between PK-PRO and Green Stuff World for about half a year. Ultimately without result, because at some point Green Stuff World simply stopped contacting us. This cost PK-PRO about 10.000€ in translation and legal fees and of course a lot of time ... Although PK-PRO was able to sell its "PK-Punches" via its own webshop, it could only reach a part of its original customers. And as usual with new releases, the demand for such tools was already covered after half a year had elapsed.
As a reminder again the statement of Green Stuff World published on January 2nd, 2020:
"We are a small family business, this is my hobby and my life, and I am very proud of what has been achieved after many years of hard work..."
Well, I personally got a slightly different impression of the company Green Stuff World during my research. Although Green Stuff World has always remained within the framework of the applicable laws in the cases I researched, I believe that they have consciously taken advantage of the corresponding loopholes in the law and procedures. There is no question that such "hard restraints" are also common in other industries, but legally sound does not automatically mean morally sound. At least for me.
Even the initially very harsh action against Naomi's video, in which a shutdown and warning was issued directly via YouTube, does not fit for me with Green Stuff Worlds' statement: "We would like to apologise again for this serious misunderstanding, for having damaged her channel in some way, and for having made her part of a legal dispute between companies that have nothing to do with her. The shutdown and warning was at the request of Green Stuff World - how could this have been a misunderstanding?
After all these statements, events and my researches I have come to the personal conclusion that I will not buy, use and present any more products from Green Stuff World via the TWS channel and thus recommend and thus advertise you.
I have deleted the two TWS reviews of Green Stuff World - even if one of the videos was the ninth most popular video in the TWS archive. But I gladly accept the loss of views, likes and reach. Furthermore I will remove all links to Green Stuff World from all TWS video descriptions in the next days.
Nevertheless - and I want to emphasize this here - this is my personal opinion and decision. I do not want to call for a shitstorm against or even boycott of Green Stuff World. With this video I only want to show you the result of my research and inform you about backgrounds you might not have had any insight into so far. And so that nobody thinks that I only published this video to get as many YouTube clicks as possible out of the current situation, this video is NOT monetized. That means, no matter how many people watch this video, I don't get one cent of advertising revenue for it.
I also want to avoid any hate comments or further shitstorm against Green Stuff World. Accordingly I have deactivated the comment area below this video and also at my corresponding Facebook postings.
Just take your time to form your own opinion ... and if you want to continue shopping at Green Stuff World and/or present their products, please do so. I definitely don't want to dictate anything to anyone or impose my opinion.
So, that's it from my side regarding Green Stuff World. I hope to see you again next Friday for a more pleasant hobby topic ... See you!
Wow... that's insane. I can't believe the green stuff rollers were not their own idea! Assuming I'm understanding that transcript correctly...
Very disappointed in GSW . It's one thing to make a product inspired by another, but to then take action to stop the original inventor from selling theirs... very, very poor behavior, and it turns out there is a pattern of it, to boot
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/05 21:10:13
Wow... that's insane. I can't believe the green stuff rollers were not their own idea! Assuming I'm understanding that transcript correctly...
Very disappointed in GSW . It's one thing to make a product inspired by another, but to then take action to stop the original inventor from selling theirs... very, very poor behavior, and it turns out there is a pattern of it, to boot
They're talking about the two panels you roll a green stuff saugage between to make cables and tentacles, not the rolling pins, but yeah.
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
I've heard the same with Vallejo. There are several US painters that won't use them due to some shade stuff they did to a US based paint manufacturer and that there was some sort of legal settlement on their end. Don't know who, as none would ever say, but it's either Reaper or Privateer and I'm leaning towards Reaper based off of the painters. I'm pretty sure a lot of companies in our various hobbies do things like this to smaller people via legal means. Also shows how you should protect yourself if you do make something.
But also, there's nothing novel about the rollers nor the punches. It's easy for similar people to come up with similar designs in a vacume. In fact, dimension wise, they're about the same size as cake decorating rollers for fondant which is where I've always suspected the idea came from.
Edit: see now it's for the cabling stuff. Not sure about that. I know CMoN sold something like that for years, don't know if it was GSW, the other gentlemen's, or someone else's design.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Ah so that's what went on with the punches, i'd heard something about GSW being involved in something (allegedly) dubious but never got to hear exactly what it was about as most of it seemed to be going on on non English speaking forums
Damn, I own GSW leaf puncher, now I'll feel dirty every time I use it...
Yeah, I'm definitely not going to buy from them again.
A very quick google turns up the Tentacle Maker, from Green Stuff Industries. They ship using USPS, so seems doubtful they have anything to do with GSW and Alicante.
Here's a very brief Dakka thread talking about it. Here's a nine-year old review of v1.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/05 23:27:45
A very quick google turns up the Tentacle Maker, from Green Stuff Industries. They ship using USPS, so seems doubtful they have anything to do with GSW and Alicante.
Here's a very brief Dakka thread talking about it. Here's a nine-year old review of v1.
Overread wrote: Is GSW a bad company in general? I have to say whilst I've heard of them in general, this is the first time I've heard of them in a negative manner. One bad situation like this really shouldn't burn a whole company to the ground - nor should we wish it too. A bad situation yes, but there's a difference between a company that suffers for its bad actions for a while and one which we wish to see utterly destroyed.
I've put a few orders in with them now - 5 or 7 maybe? They've always been good product, the orders have been correct, the prices have been good, and they have been delivered quickly (once I tell them yes, really send it to my PO box, I'll get it - which I have to tell them every order )\
When it's a company like this a small number of people running the shop, I'm a little more hesitant to pick up the torch as opposed to large companies with dedicated legal departments and a history of bad-faith legal maneuvering. The punch situation... I don't know, I don't really understand what happened there.
----
So far as the GSI Tentacle Maker, I have on and it's excellent. It's got a little bit of a learning curve at first but it's one of my better hobby tools.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/01/06 04:11:00
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
Ah, sorry for the misunderstanding (re: tentacle maker vs roller). A local hobbyist has a tentacle maker tool (not sure on manufacturer) and it is indeed awesome.
My problem isn't them making a similar product at all, it's them taking legal / business steps to stop another small hobby business from selling theirs (especially when that other small business is the creator of the original idea!).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/06 04:22:06
So from the screenshot in the first post it seems crazy.
Reading the email in the video, as opposed to what she’s saying, they do make it clear that they put the request in to YouTube, not that they (GSW) manually scour the internet for them to get taken down.
I feel in their replies to her they were perfectly fine and nice and happy to sort it.
Only because of her video have they then had to issue an apology or whatnot, when it had already in effect been resolved pretty much?
I don’t use the company and probably never will, but this wouldn’t change my opinion on them necessarily.
They had to file to get the name now, as Vallejo released something with it, so I can see that a much bigger company swooping in on the name would affect them, so probably hadn’t originally thought it necessary to ensure they had it even though it was released a while back.
That’s actually moderately common with trademarking and copyrighting.
I’d like to think if they had found the video themselves they would have messaged first with a request and not just told YT to drop it (of that we’ll never know), but when YouTube get a request about TM & C, they have to immediately purge videos or they could also be at fault, so I see why they are quick to act..
Can’t say I like her persona in the video, not content wise, just the way she presents, reminds me too much of you tubers that I don’t like.
However she doesn’t really deserve this sort of thing to happen to the account, and I’m sure it will or already has been rectified.
This actually happens a lot to YT accounts whenever YouTube get a letter about a new TM, but I think normally they just re edit or upload a new vid etc
Danny76 wrote: So from the screenshot in the first post it seems crazy.
Reading the email in the video, as opposed to what she’s saying, they do make it clear that they put the request in to YouTube, not that they (GSW) manually scour the internet for them to get taken down.
I feel in their replies to her they were perfectly fine and nice and happy to sort it.
Only because of her video have they then had to issue an apology or whatnot, when it had already in effect been resolved pretty much?
I don’t use the company and probably never will, but this wouldn’t change my opinion on them necessarily.
They had to file to get the name now, as Vallejo released something with it, so I can see that a much bigger company swooping in on the name would affect them, so probably hadn’t originally thought it necessary to ensure they had it even though it was released a while back.
That’s actually moderately common with trademarking and copyrighting.
I’d like to think if they had found the video themselves they would have messaged first with a request and not just told YT to drop it (of that we’ll never know), but when YouTube get a request about TM & C, they have to immediately purge videos or they could also be at fault, so I see why they are quick to act..
I have no idea where you're getting this junk from. A GSW employee found the video and manually put a copyright claim on it with full knowledge of what they were doing. The only "automation" here is that Youtube takes down the video immediately without a living human checking if the claim is justified.
I also find it hilarious how they start out with "our legal department has decided so and so" and within a day switch to "we are a mom and pop family business, please have mercy"
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/06 11:30:24
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
Danny76 wrote: So from the screenshot in the first post it seems crazy.
Reading the email in the video, as opposed to what she’s saying, they do make it clear that they put the request in to YouTube, not that they (GSW) manually scour the internet for them to get taken down.
I feel in their replies to her they were perfectly fine and nice and happy to sort it.
Only because of her video have they then had to issue an apology or whatnot, when it had already in effect been resolved pretty much?
I don’t use the company and probably never will, but this wouldn’t change my opinion on them necessarily.
They had to file to get the name now, as Vallejo released something with it, so I can see that a much bigger company swooping in on the name would affect them, so probably hadn’t originally thought it necessary to ensure they had it even though it was released a while back.
That’s actually moderately common with trademarking and copyrighting.
I’d like to think if they had found the video themselves they would have messaged first with a request and not just told YT to drop it (of that we’ll never know), but when YouTube get a request about TM & C, they have to immediately purge videos or they could also be at fault, so I see why they are quick to act..
Can’t say I like her persona in the video, not content wise, just the way she presents, reminds me too much of you tubers that I don’t like.
However she doesn’t really deserve this sort of thing to happen to the account, and I’m sure it will or already has been rectified.
This actually happens a lot to YT accounts whenever YouTube get a letter about a new TM, but I think normally they just re edit or upload a new vid etc
A manual claim is exactly what is says in the name: the copyright owner (which GSW claimed to be) manually identified a video and manually marked it as violating their copyright.
If you're handing YT something so they must automatically take down content that you hold the rights to, it's going to show that.
I was going from their statement;
“Our legal department warned YouTube of the fraudulent use of the product Colorshift in any channel other than ours”
To me that’s they put that forward to YouTube, and it’s them who Manually went through the videos and took down any that were linked to the issue.
Manual means a person did it rather than automated, which is where the YouTube system flags things that aren’t acceptable etc.
they then say “That’s why all the videos or reviews with that name have been automatically deleted.”
So I read it as not being something they specifically sought out each video (as why would they, YouTube have to find them all and remove them as per the request).
I mean, like I said I don’t disagree it’s over the top to want a blanket removal of all videos.
But I didn’t see it as them maliciously selecting videos to remove.
It's worth remembering that GSW isn't based in an English language country so relying on the specific wording of their statement as opposed to the screenshot that explicitly shows it was a manual strike may not be the best course of action. They may not have been maliciously intending to mislead.
Update video from SnS, including another note that it was a manual strike and vallejos response:
Seems like everything is resolved and the trademark thing is now just between vallejo and GSW, as it always should have been.
Danny76 wrote: I was going from their statement;
“Our legal department warned YouTube of the fraudulent use of the product Colorshift in any channel other than ours”
To me that’s they put that forward to YouTube, and it’s them who Manually went through the videos and took down any that were linked to the issue.
Manual means a person did it rather than automated, which is where the YouTube system flags things that aren’t acceptable etc.
they then say “That’s why all the videos or reviews with that name have been automatically deleted.”
So I read it as not being something they specifically sought out each video (as why would they, YouTube have to find them all and remove them as per the request).
I mean, like I said I don’t disagree it’s over the top to want a blanket removal of all videos.
But I didn’t see it as them maliciously selecting videos to remove.
SnS showed the YT interface where it clearly said that it was a manual claim.
Well it just said the word manual.
No explanation of what that means specifically.
Her follow up video certainly explains a bit more.
I don’t think it’ll be the end of GSW, but this is gonna hit them pretty hard still I’d imagine.
Any fan of hers will never do business with them, apology or not. And likely the community at large.
Will be interesting to see what it is Vallejo are planning legal wise
Dad. Get off the internet.
2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress
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. It's one thing to make a product inspired by another, but to then take action to stop the original inventor from selling theirs... very, very poor behavior, and it turns out there is a pattern of it, to boot 
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