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 Gert wrote:
The Psychic phase and the way powers work with the 7th style is only really an issue if Tsons or Ruinstorm Daemons with loads of wizards are on the table. For the former it can be irritating while you wait for them to do their turn but IMO it's the same as any other phase where an army has specialised into using said phase. As long as power generation is still rolled for I wouldn't mind a switch to the 2d6 to get X result for casting but it's not a massive concern for me.

I played Sisters during 7th so maybe I have a bias, but honestly Invisible death stars was the worst part of the psychic powers.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I played Sisters during 7th so maybe I have a bias, but honestly Invisible death stars was the worst part of the psychic powers.

And I played against Lorgar Transfigured with a horde of Terminators all with Invisibility. That power is gone my guy, it was removed in the AoD ruleset.

 Gert wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I played Sisters during 7th so maybe I have a bias, but honestly Invisible death stars was the worst part of the psychic powers.

And I played against Lorgar Transfigured with a horde of Terminators all with Invisibility. That power is gone my guy, it was removed in the AoD ruleset.

Honestly cures one of my biggest concerns about sticking with 7th ed.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Honestly cures one of my biggest concerns about sticking with 7th ed.

The problem comes from how people describe the AoD ruleset. It is based on 7th Ed but the worst issues don't exist.
The Psychic tables were reworked and changed, with Invisibility being flat out removed and summoning abuse is much harder due to the lack of Psykers and the fact that Malefic powers are locked to the Word Bearers and the Esoterist unit for Astartes.
Formations aren't a thing and Rites of War are nowhere near as problematic as they almost always cause negative as well as positive effects. For example, Primarch's Chosen allows you to take a Primarch as your HQ and Warlord, alongside Veterans and all Terminators as Troops. However, in addition to Price of Failure (extra VP for LoW kills) if the Primarch is slain then all units in the detachment lose scoring and you have to take more units with the Legion Astartes rule than without (the latter isn't a serious issue but means that you can't take the minimum Troops then load up on tanks or aircraft).
Deathstars can still be an issue but the similarity between the Legion lists and the variety in Legion special units means that your Deathstar might go up against something just as big and bad as itself, if not more so.
Morale is much more of a player as although Legion Astartes units can always attempt to regroup, they are not immune to rules such as Fear, with Fearless being one of the most premium special rules in the system.
There are obviously broken lists and units but the wider HH event circuit (at least where I live) is centered around narrative-driven games and a more casual environment. So lists like the Court of the Crimson King (Magnus and a butt load of Sehkmet) supported by 3 Sicaran Arcus tanks (very very good) are not looked on favorably.

I have no issue either way as long as things are sculped in a way which makes cutting up the models easy

The glory of old monopose kits were that once you got all the kits of a single faction, there was a lot of cool kitbash combos you could do without having to cut and paste anything. But the poses were quite static at times.

I think I prefer the modern style where it's a singular torso piece, and you just mix & match the arms, head and accessories. But in order for that to work optimally, you need a healthy selection of torsos, with enough variety in poses. You gotta have both static and more dynamic ones, or it's not looking any better than the old ones.

You'll still need the hacksaw either way if you are serious about your minis

For those who have not seen it yet, here is a link to an imgur gallery with a lot of leaked rules pages.
https://imgur.com/a/sRSeyzH

Some things I like, some I don't (mostly in regards to missing units). Regardless, set your Doom-O-Meters to 11.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
For those who have not seen it yet, here is a link to an imgur gallery with a lot of leaked rules pages.
https://imgur.com/a/sRSeyzH

Some things I like, some I don't (mostly in regards to missing units). Regardless, set your Doom-O-Meters to 11.

A lot of units got the axe. Feeling like, great new plastic, take those and play original 30k. Avoid new of the sake of new and the campaign book churn.

Did the axed generic units?

RazorEdge wrote:
Did the axed generic units?

Yes - Indomitus Terminators (the GW plastic ones), Dreadnoughts, Legion Basilisk/Medusa...

They may tie some axed units in to other entries. Like the cortus and Mortis contemptors could be rolled up into the contemptor entry

Certain Centurion options have been removed as well as the Achilles, Phobos LR and probably some other stuff. Legion specifics have also seemingly been gutted so overall this is looking like a pretty grim picture for HH.

This is the removed list from B&C:

Yeah, pretty peeved that the full squadron of Legion Medusas I have for my Imperial Fists are now a nice expensive set of paperweights....

Really sad the Legion dedicated artillery is gone. That stuff rocks.

Bummer, list is larger than you’d think. I can see a few things I have are no longer on the list :(

It also doesn't make sense considering the model that was specifically made for the Legion arty is still in production and hasn't gone LCTB alongside the Spartan, Deimos Rhino, and Sicaran.

WTF, why did they removed Rylanor?

There was a leaked Page with a LR Proteus with the profile of the Phobos (???).

Some people said those leaks are not final, some removed options make no sense (to me) and could maybe only missing in this leaked book which isn't complete.

The thing is, at "Phase 3 Testing" (if that's what this really is) I'd expect things to be pretty nailed down. Unless this is all lies in which case we're at square 0.

Some of the removed units are just strange choices. GW clearly has some plan in regards to what they want to produce in plastic and what they want to produce in resin, but dropping the boxnoughts is just baffling. I can kind of understand the Lightning (I have one, so it sucks to not get to use it), as the Xiphon can be pushed as the marine-specific fighter and maybe the Lightning will be in the Imperial Army and militias list? Same with the artillery (I have a legion Basilisk), I suppose they'll get shunted to the Imperial Army and militias? Even if they discontinued the FW Basilisk, there's still the full plastic model they could just sell.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Some of the removed units are just strange choices. GW clearly has some plan in regards to what they want to produce in plastic and what they want to produce in resin, but dropping the boxnoughts is just baffling. I can kind of understand the Lightning (I have one, so it sucks to not get to use it), as the Xiphon can be pushed as the marine-specific fighter and maybe the Lightning will be in the Imperial Army and militias list? Same with the artillery (I have a legion Basilisk), I suppose they'll get shunted to the Imperial Army and militias? Even if they discontinued the FW Basilisk, there's still the full plastic model they could just sell.

The current plastic basilisk is one of the few guard kits that still needs a redone model- it has the new chimaera hull, but the old 3rd ed basilisk gun sprue.

my guess is if boxnaughts are removed it's due the GW wanting to create a clearer line between The HH and 40k.

BrianDavion wrote:
my guess is if boxnaughts are removed it's due the GW wanting to create a clearer line between The HH and 40k.

Which is strange because most of the SM stuff for 40k was around during the heresy, apparently even extending to primaris marines. HH is basically just 40k without xenos in terms of what units were being used.

BrianDavion wrote:
my guess is if boxnaughts are removed it's due the GW wanting to create a clearer line between The HH and 40k.

But that still baffles me. 30K is the perfect place for them to continue to sell all of the old marine vehicles, letting them push the Primaris stuff even more in 40K.

Part of me wants to think it's not something stupid like they don't want a kit to be usable in both game systems because they don't want to have to label the box with both the 40K and 30K logos.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:


Part of me wants to think it's not something stupid like they don't want a kit to be usable in both game systems because they don't want to have to label the box with both the 40K and 30K logos.

It's not about labeling the box, they don't want anyone to be able to use 1 army for both 40k and HH. You wanna play HH? Better buy all the HH specific stuff because your 40k space marines won't work (even though the novels are full of space marines with loadouts that you can build from the 40k kits).

Toofast wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:


Part of me wants to think it's not something stupid like they don't want a kit to be usable in both game systems because they don't want to have to label the box with both the 40K and 30K logos.

It's not about labeling the box, they don't want anyone to be able to use 1 army for both 40k and HH. You wanna play HH? Better buy all the HH specific stuff because your 40k space marines won't work (even though the novels are full of space marines with loadouts that you can build from the 40k kits).

I mean cross game kits are a thing *points to chaos deamons* for all we know GW just didn't include a complete list of units (in fact if they where trying to catch play test leakers omitting a handful of beloved units from differant documents and waiting to see what the internet blows up about would be an easy way to do it)

Toofast wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:


Part of me wants to think it's not something stupid like they don't want a kit to be usable in both game systems because they don't want to have to label the box with both the 40K and 30K logos.

It's not about labeling the box, they don't want anyone to be able to use 1 army for both 40k and HH. You wanna play HH? Better buy all the HH specific stuff because your 40k space marines won't work (even though the novels are full of space marines with loadouts that you can build from the 40k kits).

Otherweise, the added the "half-marines" Scout Squad to HH, when we already have the Legion Recon Squad.

Toofast wrote:


(even though the novels are full of space marines with loadouts that you can build from the 40k kits).

Their kneepads are the wrong shape though.

BrianDavion wrote:
my guess is if boxnaughts are removed it's due the GW wanting to create a clearer line between The HH and 40k.

The Castaferrum Mk.IV (exposed pilot head, secondary weapons mounted on body) was pre-HH while the Mk.V (fully enclosed sarcophagus, secondary weapons mounted on arm(s)) was introduced during the HH.

Toofast wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:


Part of me wants to think it's not something stupid like they don't want a kit to be usable in both game systems because they don't want to have to label the box with both the 40K and 30K logos.

It's not about labeling the box, they don't want anyone to be able to use 1 army for both 40k and HH. You wanna play HH? Better buy all the HH specific stuff because your 40k space marines won't work (even though the novels are full of space marines with loadouts that you can build from the 40k kits).

Considering you could just use HH models as 40k ones (been thinking about jumping into Word Bearwrs in both systems via HH for example) I think it has to do more with sales tracking and GW wanting a clear revenue stream for FW's specialist games division.

That dude that leaked the loyal Legions rules is now leaking the main rulebook on 4chan...

Seems like the new Horus Heresy borrows stuff from a lot of the older editions, not only 7th Edition.