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I don't think there is a 9th Edition rumour to begin with.

Just speculation based on a) Codexes are essentially complete and b) GW tends to release new editions / starter boxes in the summer.

Everything I ever saw there was even hedging their bets on whether its just a slight update or a genuine new Edition. So it seems like nobody actually has any inside scoop or information and are just making up click-bait based on probability.

Maybe there'll be a new rule book in the summer of 2020. And if there isn't, expect another round of "9th Edition in the summer of 2021" ... cough ... "rumours". And if there isn't in 2021, gear up for "rumours" for 9th Edition in 2022. They'll be correct eventually.

Indeed. And wasn't the word about 8th edition being one GW wanted to stick with for a while?

Carlovonsexron wrote:
Indeed. And wasn't the word about 8th edition being one GW wanted to stick with for a while?

They said that about AoS too, and that they weren’t going to do new editions, but then 2.0 came out. 8th is a bit of a mess atm with all the FAQs and white dwarfs. I’m not a fan either of the metric crap ton of supplements they’ve been chucking out too, and these campaign books, all these books adding pages of extra bloat on top of bloat. The amount of stratagems people get now is just ridiculous.

Then again, I doubt a 9th edition would change most of that.

Sure.

It's probably there'll be an updated rulesbook at some point.

It's probably it'll be released as is traditional in the summer with a new boxed set.

It's not super improbably it'll happen in 2020.

None of that qualifies as a rumour though. That's just speculation and informed guess work based on past releases.

Carlovonsexron wrote:
Indeed. And wasn't the word about 8th edition being one GW wanted to stick with for a while?

Like they have said just about every edition so far

I really don't see how a new edition would fix anything but CP generation, cover or transports.
Maybe they change how consolidate/pile-in works so you don't have to move charging models four times in one turn and prevent the un-intuitive drifting glitch.

All of those would be nice fixes, but hardly comparable to other edition changes, not even 6th=>7th.

If they do their usual table-flip-it's-a-new-game thing, I would not be amused.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
I don't think there is a 9th Edition rumour to begin with.

There have been multiple rumours of a 9th ed this summer for about six months.

The reliability is somewhat suspect of those.

 Jidmah wrote:
I really don't see how a new edition would fix anything but CP generation, cover or transports.
Maybe they change how consolidate/pile-in works so you don't have to move charging models four times in one turn and prevent the un-intuitive drifting glitch.

All of those would be nice fixes, but hardly comparable to other edition changes, not even 6th=>7th.

If they do their usual table-flip-it's-a-new-game thing, I would not be amused.

Well, one of the rumours is that there'd be psychic phase reworking to have endless spells like AOS, and that... feels like something GW would do tbh.

I'm not familiar with the rules of AOS, could someone explain to me how Endless Spells work? I'm aware that they have miniatures to represent them on the table, and have effects that last over multiple turns but I don't understand the mechanics.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I'm not familiar with the rules of AOS, could someone explain to me how Endless Spells work? I'm aware that they have miniatures to represent them on the table, and have effects that last over multiple turns but I don't understand the mechanics.

you pay points for endless during list building(you also pick the spells at that time). Then instead of casting a normal spell you can cast one of the endless spells you bought(only one of each spell can be on the table at the same time and each wizard can only cast one), the casting is just like a normal spell, if successfully cast without being unbinded you place the model on the table like the spell tells you. The effects are on the warscroll card(datasheet) of the spell. If a spell is predatory it can move now. Then at the start of a battle round after the priority roll(in AoS priority is determined each battle round) has been made, the second player may move a predatory spell, then the first etc. until all spells have been picked and each spell can only be picked once.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I'm not familiar with the rules of AOS, could someone explain to me how Endless Spells work? I'm aware that they have miniatures to represent them on the table, and have effects that last over multiple turns but I don't understand the mechanics.

The brief rundown:

Endless Spells are purchased using points and once they are, any Wizard in your army can utilize them. Wizards cannot attempt to cast more than one Endless Spell in a turn, even if it is a different one to that which they cast. You can attempt to Unbind an Endless Spell when it is cast as normal. Endless Spells remain in play until they are dispelled, it moves off the edge of the battlefield(this only applies to Predatory Endless Spells--more on this in a second!), or in some instances the criteria on the warscroll are met for the spell expiring. Endless Spells cannot be subjected to more than one Dispel attempt per Hero Phase.

Predatory Endless Spells get moved at the start of each battle round, after determining who has the first turn but before the first turn begins. Players alternate picking a predatory endless spell to move starting with whoever has the second turn. The effects and abilities of predatory endless spells are resolved by the player who moved it for that turn...meaning that it can be turned against you.

Wasn't endless spells added to AoS before the new edition?

they where added at the same time, with an expanion that includes the generic endless of that time

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I'm not familiar with the rules of AOS, could someone explain to me how Endless Spells work? I'm aware that they have miniatures to represent them on the table, and have effects that last over multiple turns but I don't understand the mechanics.

The brief rundown:

Endless Spells are purchased using points and once they are, any Wizard in your army can utilize them. Wizards cannot attempt to cast more than one Endless Spell in a turn, even if it is a different one to that which they cast. You can attempt to Unbind an Endless Spell when it is cast as normal. Endless Spells remain in play until they are dispelled, it moves off the edge of the battlefield(this only applies to Predatory Endless Spells--more on this in a second!), or in some instances the criteria on the warscroll are met for the spell expiring. Endless Spells cannot be subjected to more than one Dispel attempt per Hero Phase.

Predatory Endless Spells get moved at the start of each battle round, after determining who has the first turn but before the first turn begins. Players alternate picking a predatory endless spell to move starting with whoever has the second turn. The effects and abilities of predatory endless spells are resolved by the player who moved it for that turn...meaning that it can be turned against you.

Would this be a good addition or a bad addition to 40K?

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

Would this be a good addition or a bad addition to 40K?

It would depend upon how it's done.

Carlovonsexron wrote:Indeed. And wasn't the word about 8th edition being one GW wanted to stick with for a while?

GW has gone back on / not lived up to everything they've said about 8th edition; absolutely everything. It's like fething battered persons syndrome anymore.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

Would this be a good addition or a bad addition to 40K?

It would depend upon how it's done.

It would be bad. Very bad. W40K, while having 'magic' is not about 'magic'; where AoS is all about it.

Furthermore, endless spells were actually bad for AoS. In my experience, a lot of casual players choose not use them and a lot of people interested in playing AoS become deterred by them.

I disagree. Endless spells are fun. I play AOS. Many people use endless spells. Besides adding a cool visual component, they become another piece in your army and they expand on what your psykers can do. I can't wait to see them in 40K..

GW is already going above and beyond to sell as many books as they can for W40K and it's turning people off. I believe that it would be extremely detrimental to do the same thing with actual models. Additionally, it would be more books, more rules, more bloat, more slowing down game play... More of all the things that are upsetting the player base and driving players out of the game at the moment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And of course there would be even more fething stratagems to come with them (i.e. Endless Spells).

 oni wrote:
Furthermore, endless spells were actually bad for AoS.

Disagree, I think they are a great addition. My entire social media presence is dedicated to AoS(and AoS adjacent games) and I've never witnessed someone complain about Endless Spells. Maybe the complaint (justified) that you have to buy the entirety of the Malign Sorcery boxed set to just get the spells you want, but secondhand market usually has that covered.

And the spells are usually pretty simple and have never seemed like a millstone on game time.

 oni wrote:
In my experience, a lot of casual players choose not use them and a lot of people interested in playing AoS become deterred by them.

I've seen alot of casual players not use the realm specific spells/relics in the main book, just like alot of casuals don't use the terrain rules, but I've never witnessed someone get hung up on the concept of Endless Spells to the point where they don't want to play. "I think I want to play Fyreslayers, but the Magmic Invocations(Prayer equivalents to Endless Spells) just turn me off. Why would I want a prayer that can devastate horde armies, or another that can boost Bravery while putting some hurt on multiple units or a prayer that blocks my enemies LOS. Ewww! Forget this game!" Just doesn't seem like an internal monologue that happens.

The army specific spells are already in the battletomes, so its just like another unit. And the fact that they cost points is a plus.

Too many bells and whistles is the first sign of a bad engine imhe...

 jeff white wrote:
Too many bells and whistles is the first sign of a bad engine imhe...

The engine GW wants to sell is the plastic, lol.

The rules are just the shiny marketing magazine that's supposed to make you wanna buy the next "engine", despite having plenty in your cupboard, I mean, garage already.

I am so glad I got off this merry-go-round.....

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
You want something credible?

As of now every faction (barring the truly lost and damned like Arbites and Squats) has a codex and plastic line.

Just about everyone has a flier and super heavy.

The game is done. Complete.

So GW has to do some sort of churn or people might (gasp) buy slightly less!

The game is clearly not done or complete, and 9th edition wouldn't accomplish the "churn" you seek anyway. GW has told us repeatedly over the last 2 years that they want to move away from codex based release schedules and release models and rules updates independent of the codex cycle - thus far we have seen many, many, *many* examples of that in action. The logical conclusion is that GW will continue getting their "churn" by way of releasing supplement books like Vigilus and the Psychic Awakening series and 2-player box sets with new minis and updated rules included, etc. as well as the annual Chapter Approved release which is an almost mandatory annual purchase for anyone playing the game. Throw in the occasional "2.0" codex release like we've already seen for some, and you've basically eliminated any real need for the traditional "churn" of edition and codex cycles.

Beyond that, we also know that GW has said they have about 5 years worth of model releases for all the existing factions, as well as a stated desire to introduce/reintroduce other factions into the game. GW has more than enough to keep the money flowing without needing to churn books.

BESIDES THAT, we're already seeing that GW is taking steps to move beyond the tabletop game as its core business, if the Eisenhorn tv series takes off, in 10 years time I expect the game will be just a small fraction of GWs income, it seems pretty clear that they have set their sights on their IPs becoming multimedia franchises in their own right, using Disney and Lucasfilm as a model for what the future of the business might look like. On that basis alone from the management side of things it might be more advantageous for GW to minimize churn, as its a big expenditure of time and energy to do something which doesn't necessarily drive the business as a whole forward (I.E. - spinning your wheels but not going anywhere), as its not really a "value added" type activity - GW can gain a lot more value by driving their narrative forward through PA style releases which generate much more content that can be mined for video games, film, tv shows, comics, etc. than they will by rereleasing the same book with a couple minor edits every 18-24 months.

I think at this point we'd all rather see 8th edition fine-tuned rather than have another edition.

 Easy E wrote:
I am so glad I got off this merry-go-round.....

It wasn't even that merry... Just another GW go-round.

not sure I can see a 9th just yet, when we do get it I'm expecting it to be basically what we have now, a few bits tidied up and a new starter set to launch a new faction/range of models to update something.

not sure the current starter has been around long enough.

I could however see a new one being timed to be six months ahead of the AoS partwork magazine ending, to coincide with a second run at a 40k partwork with new models?

only real changes to the rules I'm expecting are for the <KEYWORD> system to be expanded to weapons so stuff like <BOLT>, <PLASMA> etc. plus something around command point generation - and with luck better terrain rules. can't see anything fundamental changing that outright invalidates books, but enough that they can justify re-releasing them all with minor updates over time

people complain about the churn and new releases etc, but at the same time we've had pretty regular complaint threads about some factions getting insufficant releases. it's pretty clear to me that for every complainer about bloat and new stuff there are proably one or more players who WANT it

If there's no real news should we move this to discussions so we can feel free to speculate?

I've only been suggesting that for five pages now, Kid.

BrianDavion wrote:
people complain about the churn and new releases etc, but at the same time we've had pretty regular complaint threads about some factions getting insufficant releases. it's pretty clear to me that for every complainer about bloat and new stuff there are proably one or more players who WANT it

The two things aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, the same person could have an issue with continual releases and still be unhappy that there aren't enough for something they're specifically interested in.

Plus, of course, there's a clear delineation between "bloat" and "a large quantity of grade A material." I suspect people would have fewer complaints about GW pumping out quality book after quality book than we do about them releasing a book which has a small portion that useful, or relevant to a player's chosen factions.

I think the main issue with regards to bloat is that there isn't any sort of platform to manage it all in - i.e. an officially supported listbuilding app and rules reference. Mainly, the complaints I see about the bloat seem to be more based in the fact that there are so many *sources* for rules that need to be referred to, rather than the fact that they exist.