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chaos0xomega wrote:
I think the main issue with regards to bloat is that there isn't any sort of platform to manage it all in - i.e. an officially supported listbuilding app and rules reference. Mainly, the complaints I see about the bloat seem to be more based in the fact that there are so many *sources* for rules that need to be referred to, rather than the fact that they exist.

Yup,but that wont change due to gw rellying on sales of their booklets...

BrianDavion wrote:
people complain about the churn and new releases etc, but at the same time we've had pretty regular complaint threads about some factions getting insufficant releases. it's pretty clear to me that for every complainer about bloat and new stuff there are proably one or more players who WANT it

Those are two separate issues that can both be true at the same time. GW can be churning out way too much content (books, rules, models) for a handful of armies, while leaving lots of other armies lay fallow, unloved and unremembered.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

chaos0xomega wrote:
I think the main issue with regards to bloat is that there isn't any sort of platform to manage it all in - i.e. an officially supported listbuilding app and rules reference. Mainly, the complaints I see about the bloat seem to be more based in the fact that there are so many *sources* for rules that need to be referred to, rather than the fact that they exist.

All of the other major Wargames (Infinity, X-Wing, WarmaHordes) have all created a digital list building tool which allows the company to adjust points totals and errata units digitally without the need to print an expensive book each and every year.

GW has avoided this because - in truth - the campaign books and codexes are one of their biggest revenue generators. They do not want to switch to a digital experience because it would hurt their bottom line.

chaos0xomega wrote:
I think the main issue with regards to bloat is that there isn't any sort of platform to manage it all in - i.e. an officially supported listbuilding app and rules reference. Mainly, the complaints I see about the bloat seem to be more based in the fact that there are so many *sources* for rules that need to be referred to, rather than the fact that they exist.

I think GW's solution is the cards.

A lot of us are hesitant to buy 40K cards because we're afraid at how quickly they'll be invalidated.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
A lot of us are hesitant to buy 40K cards because we're afraid at how quickly they'll be invalidated.

IMO the cards should be included in the codex

 Azreal13 wrote:
Wasn't the scuttle around 8th that it was the end of "editions" and that it was now effectively a living ruleset?

Or would people accept a reprint of the core book with subsequently printed FAQ and errata in it as "9th?"

Pretty much everything they stated from launching 8th has turned out to be a lie or at least a half truth. The release dates for FAQs has been fluid, spring update has moved around a few times. It's not really a living rules if they keep churning editions which all signs point to they will and they say in one breath bloat helped to kill the game before then become even more bloated than before ( especially if you play Chaos all your rules are spread out along how many different books now ? ). If its a soft launch of basically 8.1 or real 9 who could say, I'd vote more towards 8.1 as why not charge people again for the same book with some changes ? Sounds right like the old/new GW.

GW has never really changed so new/old gw is meaningless term. Only change was they hired couple more PR guys.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
A lot of us are hesitant to buy 40K cards because we're afraid at how quickly they'll be invalidated.

never said it was a good solution. I'm one of those. just I think GW's solution is the cards. the hard thing to remember is all the strats etc, and the cards would make that easier. and it also means we have to buy more stuff which from GW's POV is seen as a win

Plastic packs with extra cards to add to your decks would have been awesome for PA...

 Jidmah wrote:
Plastic packs with extra cards to add to your decks would have been awesome for PA...

Yes especially for the new tactical objectives for maelstorm games.

Of course then gw couldn't get us to pay $40 for four pages of rules.

GW's current relationship with card-based products is... poor... to say the least. Just ask any Necromunda player!

I think that the way that unit cards are limited releases each time an AoS book comes out is a mistake. It'd be nice if all races had unit card packs.

Of course, with the quick way GW cycle through rules with FAQs, I fear that so many of these packs would be invalidated not long after their first printing, and with GWs continued and steadfast dedication to play-testing and especially to proofreading, we may never get a set of card accessories that are worth the paper they're printed on.

I think the only way they're going to improve is to get a card printing machine and the staff to run it. They're just not agile enough when working with external contractors, and because of that they do stuff in a 'fire and forget' fashion

if they had the ability to manage their own production I think they'd handle things a lot better although there would always be hiccups

I think the rumor of Codex Adeptus Custodes 2.0 (from leaked/datamined shipping manifests) more or less kills the idea of 9th coming.

chaos0xomega wrote:
I think the rumor of Codex Adeptus Custodes 2.0 (from leaked/datamined shipping manifests) more or less kills the idea of 9th coming.

Unless Custodes are the Imperium faction in the next starter set and their Codex 2.0 is released that same month.

Update: We're now up to 6 pages without a link to a credible source.

chaos0xomega wrote:
I think the rumor of Codex Adeptus Custodes 2.0 (from leaked/datamined shipping manifests) more or less kills the idea of 9th coming.

Assuming 9th is not a total re-write of the rules, then all 8th edition codexes could easily be legal in 9th. GW released the 4th edition Daemon Codex like 2 months before 5th edition dropped.

 EnTyme wrote:
Update: We're now up to 6 pages without a link to a credible source.

Feel free to stop reading the thread whenever you wish. I presume no one is forcing you to participate.

I think this can move to discussions, it's a good thread, just not a news one.

If the Custodes 2.0 rumor is true it's both good and bad. Good in that everyone will get rules equivalent to space marines 2.0.Bad in that everyone will get rules equivalent to space marines 2.0.

I just hope they don't stretch out the releases like they did the sm supplements. That would mean throwing balance all over the place for months while everyone waits for their updated codex.

Gadzilla666 wrote:
If the Custodes 2.0 rumor is true it's both good and bad. Good in that everyone will get rules equivalent to space marines 2.0.Bad in that everyone will get rules equivalent to space marines 2.0.

I just hope they don't stretch out the releases like they did the sm supplements. That would mean throwing balance all over the place for months while everyone waits for their updated codex.

This is GW - so of course it is going to be stretched out over months, if not years.

Gadzilla666 wrote:
If the Custodes 2.0 rumor is true it's both good and bad. Good in that everyone will get rules equivalent to space marines 2.0.Bad in that everyone will get rules equivalent to space marines 2.0.

I just hope they don't stretch out the releases like they did the sm supplements. That would mean throwing balance all over the place for months while everyone waits for their updated codex.

It's just a reprint.

 NurglesR0T wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
A lot of us are hesitant to buy 40K cards because we're afraid at how quickly they'll be invalidated.

IMO the cards should be included in the codex

Why sell something as one item, when you can split it up and sell it as separate stuff? I am seriously wondering why GW doesn't sell separate unit rules, and by separate I mean like a box, that can be build in two ways, comes with a separate booklet with rules for the two units.

Gadzilla666 wrote:
If the Custodes 2.0 rumor is true it's both good and bad. Good in that everyone will get rules equivalent to space marines 2.0.Bad in that everyone will get rules equivalent to space marines 2.0.

I just hope they don't stretch out the releases like they did the sm supplements. That would mean throwing balance all over the place for months while everyone waits for their updated codex.

If everyone is Space Marines 2.0 then no one is.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:
If the Custodes 2.0 rumor is true it's both good and bad. Good in that everyone will get rules equivalent to space marines 2.0.Bad in that everyone will get rules equivalent to space marines 2.0.

I just hope they don't stretch out the releases like they did the sm supplements. That would mean throwing balance all over the place for months while everyone waits for their updated codex.

It's just a reprint.

Yeah I heard.

Move along folks! Nothing to see here! The space marines are perfectly safe!

Karol wrote:

 NurglesR0T wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
A lot of us are hesitant to buy 40K cards because we're afraid at how quickly they'll be invalidated.

IMO the cards should be included in the codex

Why sell something as one item, when you can split it up and sell it as separate stuff? I am seriously wondering why GW doesn't sell separate unit rules, and by separate I mean like a box, that can be build in two ways, comes with a separate booklet with rules for the two units.

Because they've learnt that people still buy them even if things that really should be bundled can be sold separately. Just because they can, doesn't mean they should

This won't change any time soon sadly though. GW market are like Apple fans, complain about the price but still line up at the door to buy the same thing over and over

 NurglesR0T wrote:

Karol wrote:

 NurglesR0T wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
A lot of us are hesitant to buy 40K cards because we're afraid at how quickly they'll be invalidated.

IMO the cards should be included in the codex

Why sell something as one item, when you can split it up and sell it as separate stuff? I am seriously wondering why GW doesn't sell separate unit rules, and by separate I mean like a box, that can be build in two ways, comes with a separate booklet with rules for the two units.

Because they've learnt that people still buy them even if things that really should be bundled can be sold separately. Just because they can, doesn't mean they should

This won't change any time soon sadly though. GW market are like Apple fans, complain about the price but still line up at the door to buy the same thing over and over

Not really. We pirate stuff a lot harder than they do.

IDK about a new edition, but maybe a re-release of all the 8th edition codices to help update and consolidate some rules might be in order. Book creep is definitely real.

DudleyGrim wrote:
IDK about a new edition, but maybe a re-release of all the 8th edition codices to help update and consolidate some rules might be in order. Book creep is definitely real.

They're redoing the FW indexes. A new edition isn't coming other than a consolidation for sure.

DudleyGrim wrote:
IDK about a new edition, but maybe a re-release of all the 8th edition codices to help update and consolidate some rules might be in order. Book creep is definitely real.

Well they just announced that we're getting new forge world Indexes so I'd say that might be a possibility.

Gadzilla666 wrote:

DudleyGrim wrote:
IDK about a new edition, but maybe a re-release of all the 8th edition codices to help update and consolidate some rules might be in order. Book creep is definitely real.

Well they just announced that we're getting new forge world Indexes so I'd say that might be a possibility.

Haha. Ninja'd!