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Ouze wrote: The stated rationale is that they are heavily biased to the Chinese government to the point they are complicit in the early coverup.
This isn't my rationale, I don't know enough about the WHO to really have an opinion - but I think the timing is terrible even if you buy into the above.
Funnily enough trump himself was downplaying the whole thing and not doing anything to prepare US while complimenting china and who warning of the danger.
But trump is just looking for external target to shift blame from his own mistakes.
I mean, if you're looking for a defense of how this was handled in the US, I'm certainly not going to provide it. I can only imagine how many lives could have been saved.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
Just popped up on Steam - Plague Inc at 60% off. Not sure how I feel about that. Fun game but might not be the best time to highlight the joys of killing off the planet with a virus. On the other hand, in this time of feeling out of control, playing a topical game where you feel in control may be what's needed for some.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/15 08:14:15
Ouze wrote: The stated rationale is that they are heavily biased to the Chinese government to the point they are complicit in the early coverup.
This isn't my rationale, I don't know enough about the WHO to really have an opinion - but I think the timing is terrible even if you buy into the above.
I mean yeah, but lest we forget who let them gain this much influence in the first place....
China is the second biggest funder of the WHO. Meanwhile the Trump admin is terrible in paying its UN bills (including the WHO) on time. When you have two bosses, you hardly flip of the one that pays your salary properly to please the one who pays you whenever they might feel like it.
Aye, that said, the ethics of the WHO helping the Chinese covering up at first is also an issue in and off itself.
Yep, but deference to the Chinese comes more easily if a good chunk of your employees jobs (and your own) depended on it. Cynical, but understandable, without China they would be unable to do part of their job and access to China, however much it might lie, is still important.
Disagree, heavily, money is not worth blood on your hands.
Especially not if comes from an authoritharian regime.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Henry wrote: Just popped up on Steam - Plague Inc at 60% off. Not sure how I feel about that. Fun game but might not be the best time to highlight the joys of killing off the planet with a virus. On the other hand, in this time of feeling out of control, playing a topical game where you feel in control may be what's needed for some.
PLague inc got massive backwind,especially in asia.
IT was at time the most downloaded app in china.
Talk about black humor.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/15 08:25:01
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Ouze wrote: The stated rationale is that they are heavily biased to the Chinese government to the point they are complicit in the early coverup.
This isn't my rationale, I don't know enough about the WHO to really have an opinion - but I think the timing is terrible even if you buy into the above.
I mean yeah, but lest we forget who let them gain this much influence in the first place....
China is the second biggest funder of the WHO. Meanwhile the Trump admin is terrible in paying its UN bills (including the WHO) on time. When you have two bosses, you hardly flip of the one that pays your salary properly to please the one who pays you whenever they might feel like it.
Aye, that said, the ethics of the WHO helping the Chinese covering up at first is also an issue in and off itself.
Yep, but deference to the Chinese comes more easily if a good chunk of your employees jobs (and your own) depended on it. Cynical, but understandable, without China they would be unable to do part of their job and access to China, however much it might lie, is still important.
Disagree, heavily, money is not worth blood on your hands.
Especially not if comes from an authoritharian regime.
The problem is, the UN and as a result the WHO can still do a lot of good with that money, because no one else is going to cough up that funding gap. Its easier for richer countries to say that they don't need the assistance, but poorer countries can really use the help and they will be hit hardest by refusing the money of China in the UN.
Plus a more practical reason, China did reasonably ok sharing information this time around. When SARS hit they didn't and the world was 'lucky' that it wasn't an optimal spreader. Kicking China out means that 1/1.5 month head start might not have been there. Its quite the vindictive country.
Yes accepting money from authoritarian regimes and showing them deference might feel morally wrong, but the practical downsides of not doing so might be far greater in this context for the organisation. As the second economy in the world, its not going to be easy putting China in a corner. The hope is that you can coax it to slowly change through participation in the international community, because you don't have many other tools. Because in reality no one will really hold China accountable given their economic power and no one is going to put up the money to shut China out.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/04/15 08:58:54
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
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Ouze wrote: The stated rationale is that they are heavily biased to the Chinese government to the point they are complicit in the early coverup.
This isn't my rationale, I don't know enough about the WHO to really have an opinion - but I think the timing is terrible even if you buy into the above.
I mean yeah, but lest we forget who let them gain this much influence in the first place....
China is the second biggest funder of the WHO. Meanwhile the Trump admin is terrible in paying its UN bills (including the WHO) on time. When you have two bosses, you hardly flip of the one that pays your salary properly to please the one who pays you whenever they might feel like it.
Aye, that said, the ethics of the WHO helping the Chinese covering up at first is also an issue in and off itself.
Yep, but deference to the Chinese comes more easily if a good chunk of your employees jobs (and your own) depended on it. Cynical, but understandable, without China they would be unable to do part of their job and access to China, however much it might lie, is still important.
Disagree, heavily, money is not worth blood on your hands. Especially not if comes from an authoritharian regime.
I'm not sure that China is the 2nd higest contributor, the BBC article states that the UK was the 2nd highest contributing country last year with the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation being the actual 2nd highest contributor. The WHO website lists the UK as the top voluntary contributor to WHO projects last year with 57,275,920 USD although I think that excludes the manditory assessment. The most recent figure I can find for China is 2018 in which their voluntary contribution was 10,584,499 USD.
Looking at the mandatory assessment donations for 2020-2021 China's is 57,439,805 USD, the USA (if they pay) is 115,766,922 USD, the UK is 21,851,530 USD, Germany is 29,138,560 USD and France is 21,181,675 USD. Overall I don't see any evidence of China dominating the organisation's funding structure.
Ouze wrote: The stated rationale is that they are heavily biased to the Chinese government to the point they are complicit in the early coverup.
This isn't my rationale, I don't know enough about the WHO to really have an opinion - but I think the timing is terrible even if you buy into the above.
I mean yeah, but lest we forget who let them gain this much influence in the first place....
China is the second biggest funder of the WHO. Meanwhile the Trump admin is terrible in paying its UN bills (including the WHO) on time. When you have two bosses, you hardly flip of the one that pays your salary properly to please the one who pays you whenever they might feel like it.
Aye, that said, the ethics of the WHO helping the Chinese covering up at first is also an issue in and off itself.
Yep, but deference to the Chinese comes more easily if a good chunk of your employees jobs (and your own) depended on it. Cynical, but understandable, without China they would be unable to do part of their job and access to China, however much it might lie, is still important.
Disagree, heavily, money is not worth blood on your hands.
Especially not if comes from an authoritharian regime.
I'm not sure that China is the 2nd higest contributor, the BBC article states that the UK was the 2nd highest contributing country last year with the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation being the actual 2nd highest contributor.
The WHO website lists the UK as the top voluntary contributor to WHO projects last year with 57,275,920 USD although I think that excludes the manditory assessment. The most recent figure I can find for China is 2018 in which their voluntary contribution was 10,584,499 USD.
Looking at the mandatory assessment donations for 2020-2021 China's is 57,439,805 USD, the USA (if they pay) is 115,766,922 USD, the UK is 21,851,530 USD, Germany is 29,138,560 USD and France is 21,181,675 USD.
Overall I don't see any evidence of China dominating the organisation's funding structure.
In 2020 China has paid 28 mil so far versus 11 of the UK. This is what they can rely on in funding year after year. Voluntary is not to be relied on for a balanced budget.
Sure, China doesn't dominate, but it is a big funder in the organization and the UN overall. That can't easily be missed, because that is guaranteed income.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/04/15 09:15:55
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
1750 pts Blood Specters
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Ouze wrote: The stated rationale is that they are heavily biased to the Chinese government to the point they are complicit in the early coverup.
This isn't my rationale, I don't know enough about the WHO to really have an opinion - but I think the timing is terrible even if you buy into the above.
I mean yeah, but lest we forget who let them gain this much influence in the first place....
China is the second biggest funder of the WHO. Meanwhile the Trump admin is terrible in paying its UN bills (including the WHO) on time. When you have two bosses, you hardly flip of the one that pays your salary properly to please the one who pays you whenever they might feel like it.
Aye, that said, the ethics of the WHO helping the Chinese covering up at first is also an issue in and off itself.
Yep, but deference to the Chinese comes more easily if a good chunk of your employees jobs (and your own) depended on it. Cynical, but understandable, without China they would be unable to do part of their job and access to China, however much it might lie, is still important.
Disagree, heavily, money is not worth blood on your hands. Especially not if comes from an authoritharian regime.
I'm not sure that China is the 2nd higest contributor, the BBC article states that the UK was the 2nd highest contributing country last year with the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation being the actual 2nd highest contributor. The WHO website lists the UK as the top voluntary contributor to WHO projects last year with 57,275,920 USD although I think that excludes the manditory assessment. The most recent figure I can find for China is 2018 in which their voluntary contribution was 10,584,499 USD.
Looking at the mandatory assessment donations for 2020-2021 China's is 57,439,805 USD, the USA (if they pay) is 115,766,922 USD, the UK is 21,851,530 USD, Germany is 29,138,560 USD and France is 21,181,675 USD. Overall I don't see any evidence of China dominating the organisation's funding structure.
In 2020 China has paid 28 mil so far versus 11 of the UK. This is what they can rely on in funding year after year. Voluntary is not to be relied on for a balanced budget. Sure, China doesn't dominate, but it is a big funder in the organization and the UN overall. That can't easily be missed, because that is guaranteed income.
Yea agreed that China has a sizeable mandatory assessment and a habit of paying on time. However, just looking at the mandatory assessment is misleading as the madatory assessment revenue is exceeded a few times over by voluntary contributions from nations and large foundations. If you look at the donations all together, China gives about as much as the UK, Japan or Sweden.
Actually if the WHO is dominated by anyone it is the USA who both give a large mandatory and voluntary donations!
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2020/04/15 09:31:19
Yea agreed that China has a sizeable mandatory assessment and a habit of paying on time. However, just looking at the mandatory assessment is misleading as the madatory assessment revenue is exceeded a few times over by voluntary contributions from nations and large foundations. If you look at the donations all together, China gives about as much as the UK, Japan or Sweden.
Actually if the WHO is dominated by anyone it is the USA who both give a large mandatory and voluntary donations!
But I'm not trying to make an argument of why the WHO is dominated by China, just the reason they show such deference to it in relation to the larger UN organization (like dodging Taiwan questions and the endless compliments), because for a balanced budget on the mandatory payments China is the second after the US while paying on time. Voluntary contributions go to a range of projects but not the basic financing of the organization.
Take that on a larger scale of the UN and China is the biggest dependable funder at this time (the US has a massive outstanding bill from 2019). When missed payments are really problematic for the financing of the organization. Add to that the practical problems of being negative towards China, i.e. no cooperation and its clear why the WHO is being so weird and deferential to China in comparison to the others. China is the narcissist of countries when it comes to negative image, so saying anything less than positive is a good way of getting shut out.
But then again, for all the complaints about the WHO being too deferential to China, how much action has been taken against China by those countries on things like the Uyghurs (when they do its all show)? Other countries do the exact same thing in different forms (adhering to the one China policy and such), but the WHO presents a convenient if flawed scapegoat. No Western country can really take the moral high ground against the WHO. Yes they might complain, but they don't actually do anything either.
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2020/04/15 10:12:13
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
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But I'm not trying to make an argument of why the WHO is dominated by China
Sorry didn't mean to imply you were, Mr Trump on the other hand... You makes some good points about why China's importance just goes beyond funding numbers though, I can see how having reliable payments is important!
Geopolitics requires some uncomfortable compromises to get disparate nations and governments around the table for constructive discourse to be sure.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/15 11:46:17
Michigan has had 28,059 cases and 1921 deaths so far, and with the effort to bring it under control with lockdown and social distancing, thousands of people drove across the state to gather and protest. This will mean the lockdown is likely to have to go on longer and could make a new epicentre for the virus.
But he says the Attic will soon reopen with a 'big bang'
Oh, well played !
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....
.. is that good ?
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
mekkiah wrote: Michigan has had 28,059 cases and 1921 deaths so far, and with the effort to bring it under control with lockdown and social distancing, thousands of people drove across the state to gather and protest. This will mean the lockdown is likely to have to go on longer and could make a new epicentre for the virus.
As there were rather a large amount of people toting ar15s present, I'd completely sympathise with any police officer who decided to let them just get on with it. After all, it is only themselves, their families, acquaintances, work colleagues, neighbours and members of the public in the local Walmart who could possibly be affected over the next few months.
"All their ferocity was turned outwards, against enemies of the State, foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals" - Orwell, 1984
mekkiah wrote: Michigan has had 28,059 cases and 1921 deaths so far, and with the effort to bring it under control with lockdown and social distancing, thousands of people drove across the state to gather and protest. This will mean the lockdown is likely to have to go on longer and could make a new epicentre for the virus.
As there were rather a large amount of people toting ar15s present, I'd completely sympathise with any police officer who decided to let them just get on with it. After all, it is only themselves, their families, acquaintances, work colleagues, neighbours and members of the public in the local Walmart who could possibly be affected over the next few months.
Also the patients at the hospital they blockaded and refused to allow ambulances into.
Anyone or anything blockading a hospital should literally be bulldozed aside so the ambulances can pass.
And only be allowed hospital care after the people whose care they were blocking have been taken care of.
So the guys with the confederate flags are protesting, whilst supporting a POTUS who claims he has absolute authority over states.
..
what a time to be alive eh.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Bran Dawri wrote: Anyone or anything blockading a hospital should literally be bulldozed aside so the ambulances can pass.
And only be allowed hospital care after the people whose care they were blocking have been taken care of.
Yup. It's interesting that these are the same folks who called for protestors blocking roads to be killed, and BLM protestors very pointedly allowed emergency vehicles past during their protests.
Bran Dawri wrote: Anyone or anything blockading a hospital should literally be bulldozed aside so the ambulances can pass.
And only be allowed hospital care after the people whose care they were blocking have been taken care of.
The ambulances should have the bulldozer blades installed for just such occurences.
Hopefully security cameras got good pictures of the ones doing the blocking for the upcoming civil lawsuits.
So the guys with the confederate flags are protesting, whilst supporting a POTUS who claims he has absolute authority over states.
..
what a time to be alive eh.
Looks Like retardation. Scuse me but that is the only comment i have for that.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
So the guys with the confederate flags are protesting, whilst supporting a POTUS who claims he has absolute authority over states.
..
what a time to be alive eh.
Looks Like retardation. Scuse me but that is the only comment i have for that.
As someone who actually knows people like this and has to interact with them, I'd agree. Definitely to much lead in their water supply.
well either that or a lack of funding for public schooling and infrastructure aswell as severe shortages of educational prospects and possible future investments of a region.
Could be both tho.
Still, blocking a hospital is for me personally on the , "idc about you anymore "- tier list. Petty but idc. If anything you should've forced them through something giving them actual discipline and purpose, something akin to RS but with survival week every week, until they get an enlightenment.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/16 17:55:41
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
So the guys with the confederate flags are protesting, whilst supporting a POTUS who claims he has absolute authority over states.
..
what a time to be alive eh.
Looks Like retardation. Scuse me but that is the only comment i have for that.
As someone who actually knows people like this and has to interact with them, I'd agree. Definitely to much lead in their water supply.
well either that or a lack of funding for public schooling and infrastructure aswell as severe shortages of educational prospects and possible future investments of a region.
Could be both tho.
Still, blocking a hospital is for me personally on the , "idc about you anymore "- tier list. Petty but idc. If anything you should've forced them through something giving them actual discipline and purpose, something akin to RS but with survival week every week, until they get an enlightenment.
Well, I was joking about the lead, but you're definitely right about the lack of education and opportunity. The American method of funding education with primarily local property taxes is pretty regressive and causes self perpetuating problems for poor areas, be they rural or urban. Lots of examples of that.
I am convinced more and more that the modern divide in our society is not race, it is not class, it is not education, it is not gender, but it is rural v. urban.
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Easy E wrote: I am convinced more and more that the modern divide in our society is not race, it is not class, it is not education, it is not gender, but it is rural v. urban.
TBF, the term "Flyoverstates" perfectly exemplefies that.
And to be frank, the fact that there is nothing of worth inbetween the east and west coast, as the term kinda implies is an issue in how money and development is spent. And that has directly to do with HOW schooling is funded and how infrastructure is built and why these regions lack oppurtunity. You don't go to the midwest when chances are high taht you neither get an good enough workforce nor big enough market / respectively access to one due to lack of infrastructure, you just ignore that.
We had the same issues here, except that the rural parts radicalised themselves into a direct and proportional democratic ideology which challanged the leading elites somewhat (actually the writing was pretty much on the wall in conjunction with a rapidly expanding socialist movement due to industrialisation that it could've turned ugly again) around 1871, which then lead to the rework and implementation of direct democratic institutions 1874.
Also comparatively to the US states, Swiss cantons are immensly more powerfull, beeing the only entity with the right to collect taxes, even federal taxes are collected by Cantons first and foremost. Then there is also the institution off the NFA or Nationaler Finanz Ausgleich or National financial balancing, in which generally richer pay to the poorer Cantons in order to substitute budgets.
This of course leads to a more spread overall liquidity, allowing all Cantons to build up the necessary infrastructure and maintain it. Which overall leads to a lower overall spread of infrastructure quality and quantity.
Then there's the fact that Cantons willingly can and do work together, either 2 or more which form a somewhat seperate entitiy, not all Cantons need an university, but 2-4 smaller ones might aswell finance and build one up together.
So the guys with the confederate flags are protesting, whilst supporting a POTUS who claims he has absolute authority over states.
..
what a time to be alive eh.
Looks Like retardation. Scuse me but that is the only comment i have for that.
As someone who actually knows people like this and has to interact with them, I'd agree. Definitely to much lead in their water supply.
well either that or a lack of funding for public schooling and infrastructure aswell as severe shortages of educational prospects and possible future investments of a region.
Could be both tho.
Still, blocking a hospital is for me personally on the , "idc about you anymore "- tier list. Petty but idc. If anything you should've forced them through something giving them actual discipline and purpose, something akin to RS but with survival week every week, until they get an enlightenment.
Well, I was joking about the lead, but you're definitely right about the lack of education and opportunity. The American method of funding education with primarily local property taxes is pretty regressive and causes self perpetuating problems for poor areas, be they rural or urban. Lots of examples of that.
Education is only one half, even if you propperly educate a rural region, the only thing you have achieved is that people will go away to the better earning regions, you also need infrastructure to connect markets in order to truly improve the general living conditions of these regions. That costs money and time, and due to the rather complex matter of such development projects also is sadly often unpopular.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/04/16 19:36:20
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Bran Dawri wrote: Anyone or anything blockading a hospital should literally be bulldozed aside so the ambulances can pass.
And only be allowed hospital care after the people whose care they were blocking have been taken care of.
The ambulances should have the bulldozer blades installed for just such occurences.
Hopefully security cameras got good pictures of the ones doing the blocking for the upcoming civil lawsuits.
Forget bulldozers. Howabout saws. Let's see do they still want to block ambulances from delivering patients.
Easy E wrote: I am convinced more and more that the modern divide in our society is not race, it is not class, it is not education, it is not gender, but it is rural v. urban.
Easy E wrote: I am convinced more and more that the modern divide in our society is not race, it is not class, it is not education, it is not gender, but it is rural v. urban.
Will WIlkerson was also on Sean Carroll's Mindscape Podcast talking about it as well.
While it is hard to say that the rest of the things you mention matter "less" the population density thing is yet another pretty big factor.
Is that only now discussed over yonder?
For us this is old hat. One of the more common themes of regular lines of conflict with Tradition.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
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