Coronavirus

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**NinthMusketeer**

Azreal13 wrote:
UK cases up 25% on average from 2 weeks ago, according to the evening news on the BBC, but thankfully my region and adjacent ones remain amongst the least affected.

Given the exponential nature of infection, one can see how 25% on relatively low infection rates could still get out of control without action fairly quickly.

Also from the same bulletin, sounds like Australia are nowhere near as under control as they first thought, with fresh lockdowns being mooted and apparently WA has closed its borders to all but necessary travellers.

Perhaps some antipodean dakkites can lend some insight into that beyond a news agency from the other side of the planet?

Interesting news about aussieland, I was surprised by how fast they seemed to get things under control. Mayhaps they did not, though I wouldn't peg that government as one to be massaging the stats so I wonder what happened.

**Slipspace**

Azreal13 wrote:
UK cases up 25% on average from 2 weeks ago, according to the evening news on the BBC, but thankfully my region and adjacent ones remain amongst the least affected.

Given the exponential nature of infection, one can see how 25% on relatively low infection rates could still get out of control without action fairly quickly.

Also from the same bulletin, sounds like Australia are nowhere near as under control as they first thought, with fresh lockdowns being mooted and apparently WA has closed its borders to all but necessary travellers.

Perhaps some antipodean dakkites can lend some insight into that beyond a news agency from the other side of the planet?

While it's 25% of a fairly small number, those numbers are still a little worrying given, as you say, the potential for exponential growth. I strongly suspect we're seeing the effect of relaxing restrictions on pubs and restaurants starting to take effect. The conventional wisdom seemed to be that we'd know after two weeks and once we got past that two week mark there seemed to be a bit of a collective sigh of relief but I think the reality is it will take longer to see the effects of easing restrictions as not everyone would have been keen to rush to the pub on that first weekend. The mixing of more people at home probably hasn't helped.

I'm still waiting for a concrete explanation or at least an educated guess about what's caused the uptick in cases in the last week. It may be that I'm wrong about the opening of the pubs but it's hard to say without any good data.

**cody.d.**

NinthMusketeer wrote:
Azreal13 wrote:
UK cases up 25% on average from 2 weeks ago, according to the evening news on the BBC, but thankfully my region and adjacent ones remain amongst the least affected.

Given the exponential nature of infection, one can see how 25% on relatively low infection rates could still get out of control without action fairly quickly.

Also from the same bulletin, sounds like Australia are nowhere near as under control as they first thought, with fresh lockdowns being mooted and apparently WA has closed its borders to all but necessary travellers.

Perhaps some antipodean dakkites can lend some insight into that beyond a news agency from the other side of the planet?
Interesting news about aussieland, I was surprised by how fast they seemed to get things under control. Mayhaps they did not, though I wouldn't peg that government as one to be massaging the stats so I wonder what happened.

Yeah I don't think we ever had it under control as much as we sort of lucked out with our general structure. A lot of suburbs are really spread out and sort of isolated by areas of bushland and the like. But in the long run not even we're sure why we've been hit so lightly in comparison to other countries. And I think we only had the initial burst of infections from one cruise boat. Rather than tourists/migrants and the like coming straight from the point of infection.

But Vic is going into major lockdown now, already had a few people crossing interstate and spreading covid to NSW and the like again. And our gov is still sort of farting around aimlessly. But at least the PM isn't just dicking around in Hawaii like he did during the bushfires.

**Dreadwinter**

queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Future War Cultist wrote:
queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Freedom of speech is a separate rabbit hole that we should avoid here. also, I'm not spreading any conspiracy theories, and have insulted no one, despite receiving plenty myself.

It isnt really spreading. and even when there are rises in case numbers, deaths continue to fall.

Future War Cultist wrote:
You’re completely on your own here QAR.

Thats fine. I've laid out my logic. unless someone can come along and show my why its incorrect, which I doubt, unless a huge portion of the population suddenly becomes infected and deaths jump again, I stand by my reasoning.

Simply being ganged up on my the majority is not going to change my mind.

But it’s the masks that are preventing the infection and death rates from spiking again. It’s a circular argument. You seem to be saying that the masks aren’t necessary because there’s not been a spike, when it’s the masks that are the reason for why there hasn’t been a spike. You take away the masks it’ll spike again.

come on dude. Thats not even my reasoning. there was no spike forthcoming regardless of mask mandates. just look at the graphs.. the masks arent preventing anything, they became mandatory a week ago, when we've been at the bottom of our peak for about 3.5 months.

I guess nobody was wearing them before they became mandatory. Not a single soul in the country. But once they were mandatory! This is such a bad argument.

skyth wrote:
Dreadwinter wrote:
AegisGrimm wrote:
"Most people are wearing a mask, anyway".

They most certainly the hell are not. Most of my state is still screaming about the mask requirements. My entire small company refuses to wear masks other than myself, until the moment they hear the doorbell chime alert them to a customer coming in, in which case they are only one until the customer leaves. One of my fellow employees is still going out to bars nearly every night.

I can't even tell you the last time that I, as a delivery driver of tools and appliances to apartment complexes, actually met a maintenance guy or someone in the leasing office with a mask on in the last two months I have been working since the statewide lockdown ended. And this is statewide, because sometimes I drive 250 miles a day on deliveries.

Even the guy that gave our company our first Covid scare, STILL didn't have a mask on the next time I had to deliver to his property. I have actually had customers try to guilt trip me into taking my mask off, by implying I was some sort of anxious baby for wearing one. My own boss says they aren't even worried about planning for if our store of only 8 employees gets infected, because "it probably won't ever happen".

We in America are sitting in a hole of our own making, which we dug as fast as possible.

Make sure to inform them that since they are not following proper procedure, if you can link an infection to any one of them you will make sure it is pursued to the furthest extent of the law.

They're trying to give employers immunity from lawsuits related to getting infected by Covid.

Yeah, I saw that. That is some real bs, honestly.

Edit: I look forward to when this is all over. When people are going back to work, but the people with permanent heart/lung damage cant go back to work. Then the same people will be saying "NOW ALL THESE PEOPLE ARE USED TO WELFARE SO NOW THEY DON'T WANT TO WORK! I HAVE TO PAY FOR IT!" Meanwhile, not wearing the mask put these people in these situations. The same people complaining, like they complain about everything.

It is coming.

**BobtheInquisitor**

I had to get COVID tested for surgery, and they gave me the serious test that goes all the way up your nose and into your very soul. My body started involuntarily doggy-sneezing while the tube was in place, trying to expel it. It made my eyes water and my throat/soft palate soar for an hour. It wasn’t the worst feeling in the world, just uncomfortable in a way I wasn’t mentally prepared for. If you’ve ever had strong horseradish go in your sinus, it feels like that except that it’s over a lot faster.

**NinthMusketeer**

cody.d. wrote:
NinthMusketeer wrote:
Azreal13 wrote:
UK cases up 25% on average from 2 weeks ago, according to the evening news on the BBC, but thankfully my region and adjacent ones remain amongst the least affected.

Given the exponential nature of infection, one can see how 25% on relatively low infection rates could still get out of control without action fairly quickly.

Also from the same bulletin, sounds like Australia are nowhere near as under control as they first thought, with fresh lockdowns being mooted and apparently WA has closed its borders to all but necessary travellers.

Perhaps some antipodean dakkites can lend some insight into that beyond a news agency from the other side of the planet?
Interesting news about aussieland, I was surprised by how fast they seemed to get things under control. Mayhaps they did not, though I wouldn't peg that government as one to be massaging the stats so I wonder what happened.

Yeah I don't think we ever had it under control as much as we sort of lucked out with our general structure. A lot of suburbs are really spread out and sort of isolated by areas of bushland and the like. But in the long run not even we're sure why we've been hit so lightly in comparison to other countries.

Probably because you are so used to the continent trying 50-ways-to-kill that a mere lethal disease is a walk in the park. Or swim in the ocean. With box jellyfish.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dreadwinter wrote:
I look forward to when this is all over. When people are going back to work, but the people with permanent heart/lung damage cant go back to work. Then the same people will be saying "NOW ALL THESE PEOPLE ARE USED TO WELFARE SO NOW THEY DON'T WANT TO WORK! I HAVE TO PAY FOR IT!" Meanwhile, not wearing the mask put these people in these situations. The same people complaining, like they complain about everything.

It is coming.

Agreed, it is definitely coming. Those folks will stop complaining when they die and not a moment sooner.

**cody.d.**

Curiously I was just talking about that to a coworker with American background. I'm honestly more concerned about your fauna and flora. We don't have bears bigger than a fullgrown man that can outrun a car.

A lot of aussies are fairly soft all things considered. We're not like TF2s Saxton Hale. We have a fairly large elderly population and plenty of people with respiratory ailments (and a lot of heavy smokers) by all rights it's very odd we've only just passed the 200 mark in covid related deaths. And I don't think we're pulling what some of the dodgier countries are and hiding a few 0s on the end of the numbers. *cough China cough*

**NinthMusketeer**

Speaking of, anyone have any idea where China & Russia are -actually- at?

**Dreadwinter**

NinthMusketeer wrote:
Speaking of, anyone have any idea where China & Russia are -actually- at?

Still in Asia. Wait, does part of Russia technically exist in Europe? I feel like some of the maps from my childhood are pretty unreliable now.

**NinthMusketeer**

Exalt for well played sir.

**GoatboyBeta**

Dunno about China or Russia. But it looks like to no ones surprise Iran has not exactly been honest about there situation.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-53598965
Fairly concerning on an international level given all the pilgrims that regularly visit the holy sites there.

**nfe**

GoatboyBeta wrote:
Dunno about China or Russia. But it looks like to no ones surprise Iran has not exactly been honest about there situation.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-53598965
Fairly concerning on an international level given all the pilgrims that regularly visit the holy sites there.

There are some tombs of imams in Iran but that's about it in terms of Islamic holy sites and I don't think any have massive numbers of visitors. I think how free-flowing the Kurdish region borders are might be a problem, though. Iraqi and Iranian Kurdistan aren't well provisioned with medocal infrastructure. Turkish Kurdistan is better but it's the part of the country the least government is least interested in supporting.

**Overread**

And in more "yes but no but yes but " from the UK government they are now going to pay 50% of the bill for eating out for the month of August. So at the same time as they are talking about reigning in relaxing lockdowns they are going to encourage people to go out more.

I get that pubs and restaurants need the money and custom and that its very hard right now with many reduced heavily on their capacity. At the same time its such a mixed message from the government.

**Crispy78**

Overread wrote:
And in more "yes but no but yes but " from the UK government they are now going to pay 50% of the bill for eating out for the month of August. So at the same time as they are talking about reigning in relaxing lockdowns they are going to encourage people to go out more.

I get that pubs and restaurants need the money and custom and that its very hard right now with many reduced heavily on their capacity. At the same time its such a mixed message from the government.

And also at the same time as the governments new campaign on eating heathily and weight loss...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53546151

**Not Online!!!**

nfe wrote:
GoatboyBeta wrote:
Dunno about China or Russia. But it looks like to no ones surprise Iran has not exactly been honest about there situation.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-53598965
Fairly concerning on an international level given all the pilgrims that regularly visit the holy sites there.

There are some tombs of imams in Iran but that's about it in terms of Islamic holy sites and I don't think any have massive numbers of visitors. I think how free-flowing the Kurdish region borders are might be a problem, though. Iraqi and Iranian Kurdistan aren't well provisioned with medocal infrastructure. Turkish Kurdistan is better but it's the part of the country the least government is least interested in supporting.

That's iffy though, some splinters of islam treat them like Catholics treat saints. Infact they don't even need to be imams to be considered holly funnily enough, and Iran has a lot of these sites as has north africa. (they are also generally targeted by Isis as a high priority target...)
For the second matter they often play a politically important role in the fight between Iran and Saudi arabia.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Crispy78 wrote:
Overread wrote:
And in more "yes but no but yes but " from the UK government they are now going to pay 50% of the bill for eating out for the month of August. So at the same time as they are talking about reigning in relaxing lockdowns they are going to encourage people to go out more.

I get that pubs and restaurants need the money and custom and that its very hard right now with many reduced heavily on their capacity. At the same time its such a mixed message from the government.

And also at the same time as the governments new campaign on eating heathily and weight loss...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53546151

I mean if owners of such establishment can have place outside and spread appart it might not be as harmfull , but that seriously depends on the locality no?

**Crispy78**

It feels like a catch-22 situation where we're damned if we do and damned if we don't, and the government is trying to absolve itself of responsibility.

So, we should socially distance in order to control the spread of the virus, but we should go out to eat in restaurants because the economy is getting clobbered, but we should cut down on what we eat because being overweight makes you more more susceptible to being badly affected by coronavirus...

We already saw similar with the change in message from the clear:
Stay home
Protect the NHS
Save lives

To the rather more nebulous and open to interpretation:
Stay alert
Control the virus
Save lives

I'm probably being overly cynical but it very much feels like the government is trying harder to avoid being blamed than it is trying to do the right thing...

**NinthMusketeer**

Oof, you gotta try pretty hard to make the US response look preferable.

**Not Online!!!**

Crispy78 wrote:
It feels like a catch-22 situation where we're damned if we do and damned if we don't, and the government is trying to absolve itself of responsibility.

So, we should socially distance in order to control the spread of the virus, but we should go out to eat in restaurants because the economy is getting clobbered, but we should cut down on what we eat because being overweight makes you more more susceptible to being badly affected by coronavirus...

We already saw similar with the change in message from the clear:
Stay home
Protect the NHS
Save lives

To the rather more nebulous and open to interpretation:
Stay alert
Control the virus
Save lives

I'm probably being overly cynical but it very much feels like the government is trying harder to avoid being blamed than it is trying to do the right thing...

i doubt the government is attempting to not get blamed, infact they attempt this to not get blamed for increased unemployment.
Remember that sector has alot of people in there. it shutting down would mean alot more strain on welfare systems in place.

is it the correct way?
debatable, especially in cities with night clubs etc, beeing indoors. Which are the prefered superspreader environment atleast over here.
A restaurant having tables on the outside spaced appart and masked employees? shouldn't be an issue..

**RiTides**

Well crap. Looks like the worldwide response to coronavirus may have an exacerbating effect on other infectious diseases like tuberculosis. I.e. people are scared to go in for diagnosis or treatment, and end up spreading these diseases.

The numbers in this article are discouraging. Up to 1.4 million additional deaths from TB, 770,000 from malaria and 500,000 from AIDS.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/03/health/coronavirus-tuberculosis-aids-malaria.amp.html

Edit: Ah,shoot. I thought this was a public article because it pertains to the pandemic but apparently you need to be a subscriber to read all of it. I can try to copy and paste or maybe there is another similar public source?

**Kanluwen**

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaah...you're going to have to also remember that one of the primary medications used for malaria is being peddled by the Cheeto in Chief as a wunderdrug to cure COVID19.

**RiTides**

Is it possible to have a discussion about worldwide, scientific effects of the pandemic without getting back into politics? I get it, he's frustrating to me, too. That's not what the article is about at all, though. Did you try to read it? I'm not sure if maybe it will let non subscribers access one free article if they haven't already...

**Kanluwen**

Not really. Not when he's literally made masks a political statement. Not when he's continually peddling a medication primarily used for malaria as a cure-all. Not when he's making reopening schools a political football.

And most definitely not when he's trying to claim that COVID is only up because testing is up.

Additionally, there's an important factor that you've overlooked with regards to those numbers:
TB, malaria, and AIDS? Why are you so surprised those numbers are up?
TB has an immunocompromising element to it. It also has a stigma of poverty attached to it...and in parts of Africa, it's stigmatically linked to AIDS.
AIDS is also an immunocompromising disease...it's right there in the name. Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome(AIDS).

I'm not an expert, obviously, but you don't see the problem in saying that it's the reaction to an epidemic that's caused this?

**Xenomancers**

Kanluwen wrote:
Yeaaaaaaaaaaaah...you're going to have to also remember that one of the primary medications used for malaria is being peddled by the Cheeto in Chief as a wunderdrug to cure COVID19.

Is there any evidence to prove there is a shortage of that medication? Also - it's not just these conditions. ER visits are down across the board.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/14/doctors-worry-the-coronavirus-is-keeping-patients-away-from-us-hospitals-as-er-visits-drop-heart-attacks-dont-stop.html
Heart disease is the leading killer in the US and look at those reductions in ER visits for that condition alone. Just based on the numbers in my head and looking at excess deaths (outside of those assigned to covid) it appears to me (I'd love to see some real data on it) the fear of covid is taking a tole possibly even higher than covid.

**Laughing Man**

Xenomancers wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
Yeaaaaaaaaaaaah...you're going to have to also remember that one of the primary medications used for malaria is being peddled by the Cheeto in Chief as a wunderdrug to cure COVID19.

Is there any evidence to prove there is a shortage of that medication?

Yes.

**Xenomancers**

Laughing Man wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
Yeaaaaaaaaaaaah...you're going to have to also remember that one of the primary medications used for malaria is being peddled by the Cheeto in Chief as a wunderdrug to cure COVID19.

Is there any evidence to prove there is a shortage of that medication?

Yes.

That is concerning. Supply should catch up here in the states though. Malaria is literally of no concern here. Lupus doesn't kill you ether and there are a lot of other treatments.
https://www.lupus.org/resources/medications-used-to-treat-lupus
Thank you though - you did prove there is a shortage of said medication. I wonder if it is an issue outside of the US.

**RiTides**

Kanluwen - The article is about the worldwide response, and the countries most affected by those diseases, such as India regarding tuberculosis.

I'm upset about the things you're posting about, too. But we're literally talking about different things.

**Kanluwen**

And I made a point about how the 'worldwide response' is WORLDWIDE.

As much as people might want to pretend they're not, developing nations are reliant upon organizations like the WHO and established nations for medicinal supplies and the like.
And hell, if you want me to spin it back more--realize that some of the issues surrounding what's happening in India and other areas? They were already happening. India apparently is the only place known for a medicine-resistant strain of TB.

**nfe**

The Director of Public Health in Trafford has been talking about how the current local spike in Manchester is very high in affluent white communities as well as amongst relatively young people. Putting it down to people who aren't in the communities who've been most stressed as in danger by the press not taking it very seriously, essentially.

**RiTides**

Kanluwen - You didn't read the articke I posted, or any related source, as shown by your "Are you surprised the numbers are up?" comment. This is explained in depth in the article...

There are some unforeseen, and negative, side effects of the pandemic in countries already struggling with infectious diseases. If you only want to talk US politics-centric on this, that's fine, but again this is something broader. Do our struggles dealing with the pandemic have an effect? Absolutely. But there are a lot of other factors that are important, and which are discussed in the article I linked to.

If you do decide to read it, let me know and we can discuss it...

**Kanluwen**

Literally can't read it, thanks to them not liking my adblocker.

And again, see why I mention that two of the three diseases listed are immunocompromisers...and while I didn't mention it initially remember that all all three also have had global programs tied to the WHO as key parts of handling them.