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No, no, no, you misunderstand. queen_annes_revenge would never do something like this so clearly it's fine to say everyone should be allowed out in the countryside. This is all just harmless activity /s

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
thats true, but having a walk over land, compared to someone taking your property, is different in orders of magnitude. I dont understand your attitude that people who are merely walking around open spaces are bad people. I've been on country walks every weekend for the past month and I havent even seen any workers or locals.

If anything, I would suggest those who believe people shouldn't take part in harmless activity, just because of some warped sense of entitlement is the bad person. I'm not saying this is you, but you do seem to have a large chip on your shoulder about such trivial issues as law abiding citizens walking.

No have not mentioned my opinion of anybody's character or intent, so you can drop that line straight away. Who mentioned taking property? It certainly wasn't me!
The whole point of distancing is to prevent the spread of a virus, which is killing people.
Everybody needs to keep healthy, so exercise is permitted, which it isn't in some other countries. Total lockdown has people unable to leave their house at all elsewhere. We do not have that.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/coronavirus-guidance-on-access-to-green-spaces
"stay local and use open spaces near to your home where possible – do not travel unnecessarily"
We walk around the block a couple of times a week. We live on the outskirts of a city. We've no need to wander through the fields over the road to get exercise.

Haha my old uncle once had someone park in front of a gate at silage time. The guy refused to move and my uncle lifted his car and threw it in the river... the guy was completely gobsmacked. This was in the early 90s my uncle had to go to court got a fine and always said he would have done it again just to see the guys expression!

I’m not quite that stubborn!! Might get cross but if I got in like that my wife would kick my ass!

Slipspace wrote:
No, no, no, you misunderstand. queen_annes_revenge would never do something like this so clearly it's fine to say everyone should be allowed out in the countryside. This is all just harmless activity /s

Last time I checked "everyone should be allowed to go into the countryside" was not a defense of people blocking roadways. If people are obstructing the roads then call the local police and have them tow the cars, I'm sure the local township would appreciate the extra cash coming in from the fines.

 DrGiggles wrote:

Slipspace wrote:
No, no, no, you misunderstand. queen_annes_revenge would never do something like this so clearly it's fine to say everyone should be allowed out in the countryside. This is all just harmless activity /s

Last time I checked "everyone should be allowed to go into the countryside" was not a defense of people blocking roadways. If people are obstructing the roads then call the local police and have them tow the cars, I'm sure the local township would appreciate the extra cash coming in from the fines.

So now someone deciding it's fine for them to go out to the countryside against government advice requires getting the police involved. Great!

Also, in the first of those pictures it looks like there are just a lot of cars all parked at a popular spot, not breaking the law but making social distancing in this wide open space potentially quite difficult.

If everyone goes to the countryside, where do you want them to park? The roads round us are narrow, most require you to pull in if you meet another vehicle. The council have shut the car parks to try to dissuade people from coming out, but some folks just don’t care.

Well yeah, of course that's not OK, but a few bad examples doesn't mean you can tar everyone else with that brush, not an argument for curtailing public rights.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slipspace wrote:
No, no, no, you misunderstand. queen_annes_revenge would never do something like this so clearly it's fine to say everyone should be allowed out in the countryside. This is all just harmless activity /s

While I didn't actually say that, what you're saying is essentially just the reverse, so not really valid in any way.

 Knockagh wrote:
The council have shut the car parks to try to dissuade people from coming out, but some folks just get it.

FTFY

Stay in, unless you need to go out.
If you need to go out, don't drive.
If you need to drive, do it for a sensible reason.

Those few bad examples are all it takes, in a lot of cases. More cases. The whole point of the 'lockdown' is to revent more cases.

Slipspace wrote:
No, no, no, you misunderstand. queen_annes_revenge would never do something like this so clearly it's fine to say everyone should be allowed out in the countryside. This is all just harmless activity /s

While I didn't actually say that, what you're saying is essentially just the reverse, so not really valid in any way.

That's why closing the car parks was a dumb idea. I've been to tons of national parks, national trust areas, and even large Manor houses where you can walk the grounds, and even on busy events, it's easy enough to get into the open space while staying away from other people. If you're that worried, close off every second parking space, but let people use them. Then you won't have people parking on verges or potentially blocking access. It's no different to a supermarket car park, where everyone can pile in with no restriction.

The national Trust had the right idea, opening up their open spaces free of charge. Unfortunately, then they also bowed to public pressure and went full shut down a few days later.

People still have to pass to get through the gates.
Unless you make a one-way route around the entire place, there's no point.
People will still ignore that too.

Supermarket car parks have no option, the have to stay open. Get your daily walk doing that.

It was "public pressure" that causes it all. Too many people.

Knockagh, I sympathize with what you're saying, but at the same time - it feels like you think because some people are behaving badly, everyone is... and that's just not true. If anything, how much queen_annes_revenge has thought about this probably means they're being very conscientious about private land owners.

Also, in your pictures I see a Very large monument and water... I am guessing your farm is adjacent to this, as that obviously cannot be farmland?

I can also tell there are issues-unique-to-the-UK in this. For our exercise, we've been fortunate that there is a very wide sidewalk by the water near us, leading into a large park in either direction. We've been able to exercise without getting near anybody, but here in the US this is truly public land... not maintained by any private person, so that issue isn't a factor.

Passing people outside is not going to spread the virus. Just stay the 2 metres, or as best as, and you'll be fine. It honestly feels like common sense has just been put to the wind in favour of a 'save us oh mighty government' mindset to me right now.

Common sense isn't as common as you think.

Slipspace wrote:

 DrGiggles wrote:

Slipspace wrote:
No, no, no, you misunderstand. queen_annes_revenge would never do something like this so clearly it's fine to say everyone should be allowed out in the countryside. This is all just harmless activity /s

Last time I checked "everyone should be allowed to go into the countryside" was not a defense of people blocking roadways. If people are obstructing the roads then call the local police and have them tow the cars, I'm sure the local township would appreciate the extra cash coming in from the fines.

So now someone deciding it's fine for them to go out to the countryside against government advice requires getting the police involved. Great!

Also, in the first of those pictures it looks like there are just a lot of cars all parked at a popular spot, not breaking the law but making social distancing in this wide open space potentially quite difficult.

? The police and local government are always involved whenever people are breaking the law, how is enforcing a law against obstructing the roadways now any different than it was 6 months ago?

 Skinnereal wrote:
Common sense isn't as common as you think.

Definitely isn't any more!

 Skinnereal wrote:
Common sense isn't as common as you think.

No, it definitely isn't especially when it comes to parking lots. Without fail, I always end up with someone parked next to me when I park in the furthest part of the lot even when it's otherwise empty.

From what I've seen, people here are distancing the appropriate amount the vast majority of the time - especially while exercising. One person or the other moves way over to keep the appropriate space when passing / etc.

I also think it's important to move to a sort of sustainable setup. In my opinion, if people start to get crazy and are extremely distancing now, but then drop it, that will be much worse overall for the spread of the virus. Whereas if they are learning how to do needed things (and exercise is Definitely on that list lol) with appropriate social distancing, that is something that can keep the virus at bay moving forward.

So, the idea that it's black-and-white just doesn't seem true to me... people better not be avoiding all exercise for months, and at the same time, need to be social distancing. Both of these things are possible, but people need to be very intentional about it and as a society we need to encourage the right kind of sustainable activity going forward.

 DrGiggles wrote:

Slipspace wrote:

 DrGiggles wrote:

Slipspace wrote:
No, no, no, you misunderstand. queen_annes_revenge would never do something like this so clearly it's fine to say everyone should be allowed out in the countryside. This is all just harmless activity /s

Last time I checked "everyone should be allowed to go into the countryside" was not a defense of people blocking roadways. If people are obstructing the roads then call the local police and have them tow the cars, I'm sure the local township would appreciate the extra cash coming in from the fines.

So now someone deciding it's fine for them to go out to the countryside against government advice requires getting the police involved. Great!

Also, in the first of those pictures it looks like there are just a lot of cars all parked at a popular spot, not breaking the law but making social distancing in this wide open space potentially quite difficult.

? The police and local government are always involved whenever people are breaking the law, how is enforcing a law against obstructing the roadways now any different than it was 6 months ago?

I don't know, what's changed in the world in the last 6 months? (For those that may miss it again, that was sarcasm). The point is, we're supposed to be socially distancing. This attitude of "it's fine for people to drive go out into the countryside" kind of falls down for a whole bunch of reasons amply demonstrated over the last couple of pages. Once you have to call the police out you've now got extra people potentially interacting that wouldn't have done so in the first place. Yes, I understand the risk of an infection being spread because of a police intervention for a stupidly parked car is minimal but if we play out that scenario over many weeks and every part of the country the risk goes up. So maybe we should just stay local to avoid such possibilities.

which couldve been avoided by not closing the car parks...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 RiTides wrote:
From what I've seen, people here are distancing the appropriate amount the vast majority of the time - especially while exercising. One person or the other moves way over to keep the appropriate space when passing / etc.

I also think it's important to move to a sort of sustainable setup. In my opinion, if people start to get crazy and are extremely distancing now, but then drop it, that will be much worse overall for the spread of the virus. Whereas if they are learning how to do needed things (and exercise is Definitely on that list lol) with appropriate social distancing, that is something that can keep the virus at bay moving forward.

So, the idea that it's black-and-white just doesn't seem true to me... people better not be avoiding all exercise for months, and at the same time, need to be social distancing. Both of these things are possible, but people need to be very intentional about it and as a society we need to encourage the right kind of sustainable activity going forward.

didnt you hear? if you dont voluntarily imprison yourself in your own home while constantly preaching 'stay home, save lives' you just want everyone to die?

I can see the points people are making, and in general there's a lot of sense to being as conservative as possible in these times... but exercise is something everyone really needs to be making an intentional point of doing right now, one way or another. There are memes about all the weight people will have gained through this, but that's actually true and going to be a big problem for society...

The actual risk of infection in an outdoor field is just so low compared to almost any other situation. I think people should be courteous, especially in the settings Knockagh posted about! But they need to get outside in the open air (if accessible where they live) and get moving, or else they'll have all sorts of other health problems - particularly the longer we keep social distancing in place, since they are not getting their usual exercise from other activities.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
which couldve been avoided by not closing the car parks...

Places are closing the car parks because people for whatever reason seem to believe that simply being outside means they can stand around in groups without maintaining distancing.

That's why my state closed the playgrounds, for example--parents would still act like everything was 100% normal and gather up in their groups to talk like it was no big deal.

 RiTides wrote:
Knockagh, I sympathize with what you're saying, but at the same time - it feels like you think because some people are behaving badly, everyone is... and that's just not true. If anything, how much queen_annes_revenge has thought about this probably means they're being very conscientious about private land owners.

Also, in your pictures I see a Very large monument and water... I am guessing your farm is adjacent to this, as that obviously cannot be farmland?

I can also tell there are issues-unique-to-the-UK in this. For our exercise, we've been fortunate that there is a very wide sidewalk by the water near us, leading into a large park in either direction. We've been able to exercise without getting near anybody, but here in the US this is truly public land... not maintained by any private person, so that issue isn't a factor.

The water you see is Belfast Lough. It’s about 4 miles away as the crow flies. It around 900ft lower than the photo. The monument sits in the middle of our farm. It’s a war memorial put on land belonging to our family after the First World War. My great grandmother allowed it to be built there as she was left on her own at the end of the war. Memorial services and military parades take place a couple of times a year at most and I let the British Legion and council use my fields for car parking as there is only a turning circle at the monument. Wait for it....it’s called the Knockagh Monument! The council yesterday blocked the circle with large rocks. Which cyclists are using to park their bikes. See photo. Also photo from tractor today for distance to water.

Kanluwen - As a parent, I can say that's definitely not how people I saw behave . The reason to have playgrounds closed, in my opinion, is because it's nearly impossible to ask children to social distance while actively playing on the same slides / etc as one another.

Obviously, there are going to be bad apples. But the more as a society people can learn how to do needed activities and social distance at the Same time, the safer we'll all be in the long run, imo...

Edit: Simul-post! Knockagh, that is a breathtaking view you have . And I see now... in the US, a monument like that would never be on private land, so it's a bit different. The Knockagh Monument... pretty awesome

 Frazzled wrote:
Texas is starting to open up. I'm of mixed minds. We need to be careful, but even with all the precautions and locking down in late February it still killed the FIL and the MIL got it.

On the positive doing my first shooting competition Saturday. This should be...interesting. "all right everyone lets be especially careful to watch your hoses and and avoid tripping in your biohazard suit. Winner gets an entire roll of TP!"

In general, I tend to agree with reopening stuff here in Texas. We're so spread out that the shelter-in-place order was only ever going to slow the spread, not stop it (to be clear, slowing it is A Good Thing). I live in Fort Worth and work in Dallas, and I can see there are still a ridiculous number of people out and about this whole time as I drive to work and back. I don't want everything opened all the way all at once, though. I just hope people still act intelligently about this in the coming weeks/months. Almost half of the people I do see when I go shopping are wearing masks, and I hope that continues for awhile.

 RiTides wrote:
Knockagh, I sympathize with what you're saying, but at the same time - it feels like you think because some people are behaving badly, everyone is... and that's just not true. If anything, how much queen_annes_revenge has thought about this probably means they're being very conscientious about private land owners.
.

Or he's "my rights can't be interfered at all". He wouldnjt pay one pound if that meant getting rid of corona entirely. His rights and all that. He has to be allowed to do whatever he wish or it's tyranny.

 RiTides wrote:
I can see the points people are making, and in general there's a lot of sense to being as conservative as possible in these times... but exercise is something everyone really needs to be making an intentional point of doing right now, one way or another. There are memes about all the weight people will have gained through this, but that's actually true and going to be a big problem for society...

The actual risk of infection in an outdoor field is just so low compared to almost any other situation. I think people should be courteous, especially in the settings Knockagh posted about! But they need to get outside in the open air (if accessible where they live) and get moving, or else they'll have all sorts of other health problems - particularly the longer we keep social distancing in place, since they are not getting their usual exercise from other activities.

Of course. I agree totally with all of this, but it seems that theres so little balance.

Going for family walks is about the only exercise I'm getting at the moment, barring throwing and dragging a pallet around on the grass, and sledgehammering junk behind the garages near my house. I sure as hell arent going to be jogging. that just ruins my legs, and cycling is for weirdos in silly spandex outfits. If it doesnt involve barbells I'm not really interested, so I'm S**t out of luck right now.

 Knockagh wrote:
Haha my old uncle once had someone park in front of a gate at silage time. The guy refused to move and my uncle lifted his car and threw it in the river... the guy was completely gobsmacked. This was in the early 90s my uncle had to go to court got a fine and always said he would have done it again just to see the guys expression!

I’m not quite that stubborn!! Might get cross but if I got in like that my wife would kick my ass!

That he got fined is the real crime. It's the parked cars owner who should be charged and fined

 RiTides wrote:
Kanluwen - As a parent, I can say that's definitely not how people I saw behave . The reason to have playgrounds closed, in my opinion, is because it's nearly impossible to ask children to social distance while actively playing on the same slides / etc as one another.

Obviously, there are going to be bad apples. But the more as a society people can learn how to do needed activities and social distance at the Same time, the safer we'll all be in the long run, imo...

Edit: Simul-post! Knockagh, that is a breathtaking view you have . And I see now... in the US, a monument like that would never be on private land, so it's a bit different. The Knockagh Monument... pretty awesome

The bit it sits on has moved to the council for maintainer costs. But approaches and car parking is still all privately owned. Our family has taken great pride in being custodians of the memorial for generations now.
I probably am rather hyper protective of it. When Covid wasn’t here we have had lots of problems with kids visiting the monument at night to smoke joints and drink beer they leave awful mess. We’ve had lots of cars burned out over the years too. It’s a quiet spot that people can go to were they think no one is about. It doesn’t leave a great flavour in your mouth for visitors.

Wow, that is beautiful! Thanks for sharing... brightens things up a bit in here (although sorry about the pesky kids >.< still an amazing thing to have on / surrounded by ones own land ).

Do you happen to have a shot of the inscription?

There are many similar monuments in the Red River Valley on Private land in MN to commemorate the Minnesota-Dakota War as well. This is not necessarily a uniquely UK thing and it does happen in the States as well.

No idea the impact COVID-19 is having on them at the moment as I am not in the area at the moment.