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 Kanluwen wrote:
Dice aren't produced by GW. They get an order done in advance of the release, when it sells through--it's done.

See, that makes absolutely zero sense to me. Like it's impossible for them to go to their manufacturer and say "hey, that thing I had you make last week? I need you to make another batch". Like they can only use a manufacturer one time before they have to find a whole new one.

Bob Lorgar wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Dice aren't produced by GW. They get an order done in advance of the release, when it sells through--it's done.

See, that makes absolutely zero sense to me. Like it's impossible for them to go to their manufacturer and say "hey, that thing I had you make last week? I need you to make another batch". Like they can only use a manufacturer one time before they have to find a whole new one.

Nope. That isn't it. They come up with a number that they'll think they'll actually sell. Running out of a production run is profitable (especially considering how much they charge for dice). Having overstock that they then have to house is less profitable.
Going for a second production run means their initial figures were wrong and they're completely in the dark as to how much of the next run will actually sell- its an unnecessary risk. And smaller production run means paying the manufacturer more per unit (assuming they'll do it)

They also kind of figure in the fact that 'add-on' stuff (like dice, cards, etc) sells well when its new, but not over the long term.

Its purely a profit based decision, and adding a third party (rather than minis they can produce in house and tightly control according to need) means less profit, more risk. And the number of customers sad that they can't get an 'add on' product is relatively small (also unlike minis)

Generally it's an issue of volume.

(all numbers are made up)

The manufacturer who has many customers around the world has a minimum order of a million. GW thinks they'll sell a million so that order that and it sells out.

GW makes money, no storage expenses, no product line to keep track up, everyone in Nottingham is happy.

But now they have say... 100k back orders from people who didn't get the initial order. Should they order a million more to fill a 100k back orders? Of course not.

So they wait a few months and issue a million more of a new design and hit the same issue when it sells out.

Maybe they should up their order to 1.1 million, or 1.5 or whatever, but they're afraid this run will sell less, since most folks already have a set of dice. So rather than risk losing money they keep to what they know will sell.

What these guys said.

Not to mention it might have up to a three month lead time for Far East production and shipping, by which point that initial interest has dried up.

Anyone who’s been a retail buyer knows you can’t just go and get more stock, especially if it’s exclusive/your own product. GW plan what they need to sell to not be left with stock. They aim to sell through - it’s part of the design. GW try not to leave too much money on the table but inevitably usually will leave a bit as too much product won’t engineer total sell through.

It shouldn’t be news to anyone at this point how GW operate since their Dreadfleet nightmare.

Just to add, most entertainment products sell on a steep downward curve that then flattens.

That is to say you'll sell maybe 90% of your initial sales the first month or two, then be selling 2%, 3% of that a month. For some products that's enough to justify reprints/reorders after a year, but for many it's one and done.

So a new GW kit, GW expects to sell a 100k units month 1 and 2, then 5k a month for the rest of the year (numbers are made up of course). So when a new year comes they have to ask if it's worth making 60k units to sell over the next 12 months.

There are exceptions, a Christmas or other seasonal product will be dead for 10 months, have 2 months of sales then die again. A hit may see rising sales month after month but generally that's the cycle.

Digital changes all of this for films, music and books, but for physical products it's pretty much a law of physics.

 Thargrim wrote:

 privateer4hire wrote:
They need to make generic necro dice available like they do with blood bowl and keep them in stock. But that’s counter to their fomo marketing approach.

They did make those generic flaming orange ones, but those sold out many months ago. Not sure why they didn't keep those around.

Huh, didn't realize those weren't available on the US site anymore. They are still available around here: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-FI/Necromunda-Dice-Set-2019
I agree that some set of these dice should just be available at all times. Sure, you can use basic D6s and consult a table, but having the special ammo and injury dice is pretty convenient, and a normal D6 doesn't exactly translate to a scatter die either (D8 kind of works). Having these only available in a starter box is pretty bad. Having these only available in a very expensive starter box is very bad.

As for the difficulties in keeping items in stock and not wanting to have a big pile of products lying around: well, maybe they should consider not publishing so many damn cards then, and especially not when they try to make them integral to gameplay, and definitely not if they are integral to gameplay and the information on them is not available in another way. I like cards for quick reference or certain gameplay mechanics, but if the cards can't be purchased after the first 30 minutes of them going on sale, they better be entirely optional.

More tasteless filler content leaked/previewed for the new book:



Instead of making a solid functional system for bounty hunters, they added the new 'house agent' type instead (starting with goliath and pressumably continuing the trend for all other house gangs).

Cynics reminds me a lot of the old amazons from fantasy. Hope she gets a model.

The Death Maidens stat line came out and she’s in pretty good - it’ll be interesting to see if we can change her load out at all. I saw Bonesaw1o1 on reddit post it: https://preview.redd.it/v2mh22toqxh51.png?width=1000&format=png&auto=webp&s=d0a880e47217d6727c0286c23a074bbc7827cd14

Hope she doesn’t get a cyniss infection.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Hope she gets a model.

The good news is that there are only 1000 other Necromunda units without miniatures, so the wait shouldn't be too long.

Can't wait for this game to get out of Early Access. It's going to be rad when it's finished.

Assuming Venom claw is a toxin weapon, that meant both weapon of this new champ is useless again goliath with the toxin immunity trait. Great weapon choice.

Something simple like 2 plasma pistol welded together would've been great....Needle pistol is boring.

I'd probably skip this Escher release, I hope the Orlock kit is better, and more useful for game. They did the Goliath one better, the weapon aren't exactly more useful but at least they're interesting.

It has toxin and entangle.

It’s not a bad weapon for the vast majority of underhivers, and most gangers (even Goliaths) won’t have that genemod when you can get things like +T or W, as it is fairly situational and wasted against what, 9 out of 11 gangs?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Can't wait for this game to get out of Early Access. It's going to be rad when it's finished.

I can wait because when it gets out of Early Access the only place you'll be able to find minis are eBay.

Ogryns are a must buy, Escher I'll get to convert...

 Chairman Aeon wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Can't wait for this game to get out of Early Access. It's going to be rad when it's finished.

I can wait because when it gets out of Early Access the only place you'll be able to find minis are eBay.

Ogryns are a must buy, Escher I'll get to convert...

Early Access N17 will give way to Early Access N22.

Yep. They have shown via blood bowl that is likely going to be the approach. Assuming the bb2020 leak wasn’t part of their plan, they will release stuff up to the wire of one edition and then drop the new edition announcement out of the blue.

Escher and Goliath have effectively had three books In three years. Core 17, Gangs and now Chains/Blades. Why stop cranking out annual updates when people clearly gobble i
them up?

H.B.M.C. wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Hope she gets a model.

The good news is that there are only 1000 other Necromunda units without miniatures, so the wait shouldn't be too long.

Can't wait for this game to get out of Early Access. It's going to be rad when it's finished.

this would be nice but I think everyone is fooling themselves to think it would be otherwise.

Honestly I look at the core rulebook + gangs of the underhive as a finished and just fine game. The thing is GW has reasoned for specialist games to be profitable they have to find ways to constantly crank out stuff to purchase. Ideally by the time these books are done there would be two ways to play. core book +gangs of the underhive, and core book + gang codex. Depending on what type of campaign you want to run. The former of the two options might be more beginner friendly IMO.

 Thargrim wrote:
Honestly I look at the core rulebook + gangs of the underhive as a finished and just fine game. The thing is GW has reasoned for specialist games to be profitable they have to find ways to constantly crank out stuff to purchase. Ideally by the time these books are done there would be two ways to play. core book +gangs of the underhive, and core book + gang codex. Depending on what type of campaign you want to run. The former of the two options might be more beginner friendly IMO.

The bolded part makes me assume you think that's different somehow from what they do with every other of their games.

It's just that so far for Necromunda is a bit more blatant.

 Albertorius wrote:

 Thargrim wrote:
Honestly I look at the core rulebook + gangs of the underhive as a finished and just fine game. The thing is GW has reasoned for specialist games to be profitable they have to find ways to constantly crank out stuff to purchase. Ideally by the time these books are done there would be two ways to play. core book +gangs of the underhive, and core book + gang codex. Depending on what type of campaign you want to run. The former of the two options might be more beginner friendly IMO.

The bolded part makes me assume you think that's different somehow from what they do with every other of their games.

It's just that so far for Necromunda is a bit more blatant.

His point was that it never used to be that way. Sure, some of us did buy three Necro gangs and five BB teams, but some people stuck to one or two of each. What they are doing now (which some people really don't like) is make sure that they release six waves of Goliaths for the people that are only ever going to buy House Goliath. Goliath gang, four Goliath books, some Goliath specialists, a revamped core gang, etc, etc. They never used to do that, not with Specialist. Blood Bowl + Deathzone and a metal team of your choice and you're done, if that's how you wanted it.

I would also argue that the vast majority of the stuff they’ve released for Necromunda is also cool.

Although I appreciate the frustration of them coming up with cool ideas in the books and then never following through with models.

JWBS wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 Thargrim wrote:
Honestly I look at the core rulebook + gangs of the underhive as a finished and just fine game. The thing is GW has reasoned for specialist games to be profitable they have to find ways to constantly crank out stuff to purchase. Ideally by the time these books are done there would be two ways to play. core book +gangs of the underhive, and core book + gang codex. Depending on what type of campaign you want to run. The former of the two options might be more beginner friendly IMO.

The bolded part makes me assume you think that's different somehow from what they do with every other of their games.

It's just that so far for Necromunda is a bit more blatant.

His point was that it never used to be that way. Sure, some of us did buy three Necro gangs and five BB teams, but some people stuck to one or two of each. What they are doing now (which some people really don't like) is make sure that they release six waves of Goliaths for the people that are only ever going to buy House Goliath. Goliath gang, four Goliath books, some Goliath specialists, a revamped core gang, etc, etc. They never used to do that, not with Specialist. Blood Bowl + Deathzone and a metal team of your choice and you're done, if that's how you wanted it.

This is exactly my problem, they keep giving new stuff to the first few gangs and continue releasing new gangs before they even touch the "lesser"(in GWs eyes) ones. It also doesnt help that getting new players into the game with the constant books and and telling them that the gang the chose(not goliath or escher) wont be getting anything new for a while, it kinda takes the wind outta their sails.

I am loving all the new art though

Racerguy180 wrote:

JWBS wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 Thargrim wrote:
Honestly I look at the core rulebook + gangs of the underhive as a finished and just fine game. The thing is GW has reasoned for specialist games to be profitable they have to find ways to constantly crank out stuff to purchase. Ideally by the time these books are done there would be two ways to play. core book +gangs of the underhive, and core book + gang codex. Depending on what type of campaign you want to run. The former of the two options might be more beginner friendly IMO.

The bolded part makes me assume you think that's different somehow from what they do with every other of their games.

It's just that so far for Necromunda is a bit more blatant.

His point was that it never used to be that way. Sure, some of us did buy three Necro gangs and five BB teams, but some people stuck to one or two of each. What they are doing now (which some people really don't like) is make sure that they release six waves of Goliaths for the people that are only ever going to buy House Goliath. Goliath gang, four Goliath books, some Goliath specialists, a revamped core gang, etc, etc. They never used to do that, not with Specialist. Blood Bowl + Deathzone and a metal team of your choice and you're done, if that's how you wanted it.

This is exactly my problem, they keep giving new stuff to the first few gangs and continue releasing new gangs before they even touch the "lesser"(in GWs eyes) ones. It also doesnt help that getting new players into the game with the constant books and and telling them that the gang the chose(not goliath or escher) wont be getting anything new for a while, it kinda takes the wind outta their sails.

The problem is that the ones that were meant to be getting something new kinda got hit by Corvid. Otherwise we'd be on the fourth gang by now.

It's also clear that the plan for Necromunda has changed. It got good enough sales that GW has clearly shifted it from a "Blood Bowl" style product into a more mainstream style product. They likely postponed a range of other gangs and have instead decided to adopt a new pattern for gang releases. Instead of a few warriors in one box and a few Forgeworld resin weapons and continual expansion books; they've instead decided to go the 40K/AoS style. Gangs get Gang Books which come with a wider variety of models for each gang. Going back to the start means that the early Gangs are getting a lions share of releases; but looking forward it means that GW has the potential to release more in-depth and diverse "minor" gangs in the future. In general its a good thing, but it is frustrating for those who wanted those other gang ideas which are clearly now delayed due to this product shift and then again due to Corona.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
The problem is that the ones that were meant to be getting something new kinda got hit by Covid. Otherwise we'd be on the fourth gang by now.

I don't know if we'd be getting the Van Saar(Gang #4) yet, but at the very least we'd be getting a preview of them in all likelihood!

Overread wrote:They likely postponed a range of other gangs and have instead decided to adopt a new pattern for gang releases. Instead of a few warriors in one box and a few Forgeworld resin weapons and continual expansion books; they've instead decided to go the 40K/AoS style. Gangs get Gang Books which come with a wider variety of models for each gang. Going back to the start means that the early Gangs are getting a lions share of releases; but looking forward it means that GW has the potential to release more in-depth and diverse "minor" gangs in the future. In general its a good thing, but it is frustrating for those who wanted those other gang ideas which are clearly now delayed due to this product shift and then again due to Corona.

Were there really that many more gangs to come out? Or was it more just fleshing out the 'Big' Gangs?

I genuinely am still kinda figuring out Necromunda so forgive the question. Would the Spyrers be a Big Release or just a few smaller ones? Ratskins? Redemptionists?

GW had three or four other gang groups that they were showing concept art of much earlier on that have yet to be seen. Gangs like Ratskins and Redemptionists etc... Plus its a Hive City; GW can likely just keep going adding more and more gangs.

Of course what they've instead chosen is to go deep instead of wide; which is a pretty neat and good idea.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Were there really that many more gangs to come out?

Plenty. And certainly the other gangs in Necromunda (Red, Ratskins, Scavvies, Spyrers, Ash Wastes, etc.) would be ripe for a release before the third (and in some cases fourth) go around with the main six.

These new house books are great insofar as adding depth to the main 6 gangs. They further differentiate the gangs so that they can be different to one another in lots of tangible ways (in Oldcromunda gangs were all the same at campaign start, and it was only skill distribution that differentiated them). But why they're doing that now rather than expanding the gangs is something I don't understand. Escher and Goliath have had 4 releases (N17 core, Gang War 1, Gangs of the Underhive, and now this). Orlock, Van Saar and Cawdor will end up with three (Gang War books, Gangs of the Underhive, their own specialist book). Delaque will have two (Gangs + their own book).

Meanwhile, they've shown off Ash Wastes concept art... and we have nothing. And this is before we get into the shopping list of specialist units, pets and special characters that haven't seen the light of day.

After the post-lawsuit years of GW refusing to release rules for anything that didn't have a model/bit I find Necromunda's mutant bloat refreshing.

There are never going to be models for every special character, and you probably wouldn't buy them all if there were.

They've also shown off a lot of guilders, etc.

I kind of like that there are some things they don't have models for - but I'm sure we'll get a bunch of surprise releases Saturday from Forge World like we did last time with the Goliaths (they didn't announce the slave guild or the 'zerker, if I remember right, until it was up for preorder)